Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

breaker1 said:

Javier, if your poll shows a real trend, Jenny is a shoe in!

See how many more votes you get, as the numbers grow, the poll should become more accurate.

Trusting those trying to win us over to Jenny on the forum start to relax a bit.

Trusting you can't multiple vote - haven't tested that?

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Yes Breaker 1 that is my question , what tools are in place to stop multiple votes by the same person,i have gone onto the site and voted and thought the same thing,though, in reality it wouldnt be in the interest of any unit holders in PIF to fudge the figures.cheers flatback (the figures do look good we are a shoe in if they are correct)

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Javier said:

Sorry one more under Web Tools go to Web Poll then hit the "view service" button.

Sorry a little more complicated than what I thought

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Nice Work Javier.
Have just voted.

Quick Q: does the service allow us to weight our votes according to our holdings?

But I disagree with comments that JH is a shoe in. Currently the yes votes come in at 82%. This is VERY close. Don't forget that when one person changes their vote from YES to NO this not only reduces the YES vote, it adds to the NO vote.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Seems to me there is enough skills on this forum, to manage this Fund ourselves, no worries. Why are we pussy footing around with Wellington and
being at their mercy.

I thought this forum was about forming a group of more than 100, so that we
can take control of the Fund ourselves. What happened about that, or were some people scared off by the new clauses in the Constitution, about other
3rd parties.

You are all talk at this stage and have not seen any action. My shoulders are big enough to fix this Fund myself. Making money from money is a no brainer in a capitalist economy.

Or is it a case, you are all afraid of success.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

great dame said:

WC have pulled that 1000 out of thin air it would be closer to 8300 accourding to the latest Stats ///

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Maybe so but I doubt the cross section of PIF investors matches the cross section of the AU population. Did you go to a forum? From what I saw in Bris most looked like retirees from my parents generation and my folks still struggle with the concept of maximising and minimising windows.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

RikH. I think I've made it very clear that I will vote for JH to avoid a wind-up. (Whether JH gets us the upside or OCV - I don't care)

But I'm thinking of doing some research on OCV. To back up my accusation that the whole OCV empire was a load of BS - that they just kept borrowing money to pay out in 'dividends' iun order to jack the share price up. Namely, where the revenue/income came from but more particularly: when and how many shares there were and how much was paid out in 'dividends'.

I was just going to look through all the ASX announcements. Being a finance guy - can you recommend a more efficient way for me to do this?

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I have tried many scenarios, trust me you can only vote ONCE per one computer, so happy voting!

Here's the link:

http://pub33.bravenet.com/minipoll/viewservice.php

User name: PIFpoll
Password: spain123

Then under Web Tools go to Web Poll then hit the "view service" button.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Some very interesting information now coming on the WC site

http://www.newpif.com.au/investorforumjuly.html

including the Compliance Plan, Fund Overview (with investor summary information) and the Investment Allocation.

The trend from last year / Jan is very clear to see.

Problem appears that it had too many short term redemptions, a nice OD facilty (approx $200m), so somebody may have decided to use it as a bank and gave it away (approx $400m) before crunch time being Jan 2008.

The compliance plan looks fine, but who were all the players etc. and why was ASIC not notified as per the plan.

Where was the Custodian in all of this.

Where is ASIC on MFS, the detail is right under their nose.

This is not WC's problem as most think, as they were not there at the time.

I don't think WC's as RE is such a big issue, I think the past is.

Splitpin

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

goldfinger38 said:

I can understand your angst but please note a few things,


OH, there was a question raised about the 21 days notice for a meeting, my understanding is that they hope to have the notice of meeting out by mid August and then hold the meeting sometime aorund the first week of September. This was also mentioned in earlier posts.
:goodnight

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Thanks goldfinger. It looks like 22nd August may have been mentioned because it's the earliest date that a meeting could be held following repayment of the RBOS loan and that would depend on WC being able to predict the finalisation of the debt obligations to RBOS this week and get voting documents into our hands by Friday.

Mutchy

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It's impossible to forget the number of times MFS said over the phone that our funds were looked after by the custodian. Now we discover that the custodian was no more than a kind of despatch office sending out distribution slips and certificates etc. How could the word "custodian" be justified in those circumstances? If this was not the case, there should be a denial.

It was a farce and leads me to ask what exactly WC's custodian's obligations will be in the new PIF.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

goldfinger38 said:

To answer your query regarding the amendments to the deed of the PDS, if she didnt do this as new RE for the PIF it would have released the obligation of Octaviar to "cough up" the $50 million it was obliged to pay to us. Therefore she had to get the amendment through to allow this obligation to stand.

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The RE hasn't changed. The OCV IM board was replaced by JH (and two of her colleges) and then OCV IM was renamed to WC IM but no change in RE. Plus even if the RE changed or the fund was liquidated I think since the Support Facility was already called on in Feb that it is owed to the PIF regardless. Let me know if you disagree.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Since the 31st July is the big date, which from then, our distributions should start being paid again. This I was told a few months back. As far I know I am under the current PDS, and I look forward to my distribution next month.

If this does not happen, then I will not be voting for Welliington, and will be
telling many other investors I know, to do the same.
Lets manage this fund ourselves, which is not as hard as people make out.

And looks like Wellington is going the same road as MFS, in telling us nothing.

Lets do something constructive and picket the Wellington offices, and maybe
get some TV media exposure, which might help our cause. I think we should do something now, instead of all this talk. I know there would many people interested doing a picket, if we got organised.
We still live in free country, where anyone can form a group and demonstrate.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

akernst said:

Since the 31st July is the big date, which from then, our distributions should start being paid again. This I was told a few months back. As far I know I am under the current PDS, and I look forward to my distribution next month.

If this does not happen, then I will not be voting for Welliington, and will be
telling many other investors I know, to do the same.
Lets manage this fund ourselves, which is not as hard as people make out.

And looks like Wellington is going the same road as MFS, in telling us nothing.

Lets do something constructive and picket the Wellington offices, and maybe
get some TV media exposure, which might help our cause. I think we should do something now, instead of all this talk. I know there would many people interested doing a picket, if we got organised.
We still live in free country, where anyone can form a group and demonstrate.

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TRhanks Akernst And i thought i was the S stirrer You sure leave me for dead I like you believe in keeping the presser on Wellington Getting the medio involed sounds good too I sometimes feel WC is holding us at bay with vote for us or else ///////////

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dear Fellow Investors

The more I think about this ultimatum 75% vote for JH or be liquidated at 14 cents the angrier I become

I do not know how other investors feel on this forum but personally I have an aversion to threats.
.
As far as Wellington Capital is concerned; it’s either take what I give you, or off to the Knackery.

Of course nobody wants liquidation it would be a disaster under the current downtrend in the property cycle and Jenny Hutson Knows that only to well.

That is why this ultimatum is morally and ethically wrong

If Wellington Capital does not want the fund why do they not ask other mangers to step in and make an alternative offer?

I think it is the same reason that they asked for 14000 dollars for a data base of investors that should cost only a few dollars to put on a hard disc

And why they will not allow any other manager to look at the books.

Wellington Capital is hanging on to us for dear life like a flys trapped in a spiders web


It is now patently obvious that the modus operandi of the previous mob , King ,Adams Etc changed the Constitution of the PIF on a yearly basis to suit themselves .

Want more money ,no worries we will just change a few things, like enabling us to borrow 200 million from the Royal bank of Scotland without telling investors, etc, etc .

Remember the very act of turning the fund from an unlisted to a listed entity changes the Constitution per se.

So I ask myself , is it that difficult to change the Constitution of a fund ,why are we being placed with a loaded pistol at are heads asked to make a life and death decision with no reasonable choice other than listing .

Are we also to believe that their are no other available option that would give investors some rational alternatives.

One of Jenny Hutson publicly avowed goals in life is to control a listed entity


Therefore I think there is a very high probability that Wellington Capital intends to list us on the NXS as a precursor to a full listing on the AXS

I have refrained from posting this missive for some time, however some people have informed me that they do not understand the full potential ramifications as a listed Entity and have asked me to post.

Lets say WC want to raise some capital .

Well that is quite easy once you are listed you simply manufacture some more paper(shares) effectively diluting the capital value of the fund its called a, Placement , or a Non Renounceable Rights Issue .

The only problem is the existing shareholders will pay a heavy price .Our assets will be effectively devalued

If you want an example have a look at the price Arctic Capital (Packer) is picking up shares in living and Leisure at the present time with a Rights Issue at Four cents

Of course many of the investors who originally invested in Living and Leisure can not afford to take up the issue which means Packer will acquire the asset for a pittance.

I am of the belief that the vast majority of investors who entered the PIF are conservative and not highly risk tolerant .

They invested in this Fund specifically because they did not wish to expose their capital to the perils of a trading market .

Their primary requirement is a guaranteed exit at Net tangible asset value not a price dictated by market manipulators ,which will almost certainly be in the range of 10 to 20cents for many years to come as a listed entity

If Jenny Hutson is prepared to negotiate some form of reasonable Redemption Policy that will allow the many pensioners and self funded retirees in the PIF to redeem their capital at NTA value (which I am certain was always the intention of every person who originally invested in the fund) I can assure you I will be the first in the queue to pay tribute to her virtues.

Believe me I am praying hard that this will happen.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

All I can say is if WC can't get 75% of the value vote with their media exposure, $750k to play with from OCV to pay staff, team of legals, literature to all unit holders, a national roadshow, website dedicated to PIF, privy to all the information of the financial positions of the fund AND the fact she is a young, clever merchant banker / lawyer..what the hell chance do any of us or any other possible RE that may be daft enough to enter the picture have??

GET REAL people, there is no other choice at present so get behind Wellington Capital, sure ask as many questions to have as much information, that is very important in the future transpareny stakes, but for now let's get the priorities..we need to keep this fund going to get a better return than what liquidation will offer us.

We can worry about the rest LATER, all in good time, but if you want NO liquidation NOW then please vote for WC to be our RE.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Here's the link again:

http://pub33.bravenet.com/minipoll/viewservice.php

User name: PIFpoll
Password: spain123

Then under Web Tools go to Web Poll then hit the "view service" button.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

selciper said:

It's impossible to forget the number of times MFS said over the phone that our funds were looked after by the custodian. Now we discover that the custodian was no more than a kind of despatch office sending out distribution slips and certificates etc. How could the word "custodian" be justified in those circumstances? If this was not the case, there should be a denial.

It was a farce and leads me to ask what exactly WC's custodian's obligations will be in the new PIF.

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Yep. And Perpetual got paid $1.2M for those services in F06/07. BS isn't it. Who do you think pays those high rents in those ivory towers in the CBD's? The likes of Perpetual; 123 Pitt St SYD and 360 Collins St MEL. If Rudd/Swan and the RBA want to put pressure on someone to keep inflation down maybe they should start there. What's the competition for 'custodian' services like? Maybe Perpetual could help out and rent some of the PIF funded office developments instead.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Javier said:

All I can say is if WC can't get 75% of the value vote with their media exposure, $750k to play with from OCV to pay staff, team of legals, literature to all unit holders, a national roadshow, website dedicated to PIF, privy to all the information of the financial positions of the fund AND the fact she is a young, clever merchant banker / lawyer..what the hell chance do any of us or any other possible RE that may be daft enough to enter the picture have??

GET REAL people, there is no other choice at present so get behind Wellington Capital, sure ask as many questions to have as much information, that is very important in the future transpareny stakes, but for now let's get the priorities..we need to keep this fund going to get a better return than what liquidation will offer us.

We can worry about the rest LATER, all in good time, but if you want NO liquidation NOW then please vote for WC to be our RE.

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I think if the vote in August has an option to vote for WC with the only exit strategy being NSX or some other RE with another realistic exit strategy then people would vote the other RE.

I don’t think the July Investor forums impressed many people and if the other RE were a known entity that was clearly independent of CS and Octaviar I think they would come out a mile ahead of WC.

It’s fine for you to push support for WC but wouldn’t you like a backup plan if WC don’t get 75% in August? I don’t know if it’s possible but I wouldn’t discourage anyone from trying.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Like I said Dora if WC can't do it with all the $ and resources who will?

What back up plan can we realistically employ between now and the vote?

I am saying embrace the REALITY that WC IS the only alternative at the MOMENT..that is fact, the rest is emotional heresay!

We have to vote for WC and that is where all our energy must go to, cos I sure as hell don't want my savings to come to be liquidated at a possible outcome of 14c or less, NO FREAKING WAY!

After WC is voted we get to live another day and have the possibility to kick up as much stink as you want to keep the ba&%4tards honest. We have dodged a bullet and have bought the most prescious commodity in the world...<T-I-M-E> We have to understand that there is NOTHING else at present. 14 cents or WC..that's IT NOW!!!

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Javier said:

Like I said Dora if WC can't do it with all the $ and resources who will?

What back up plan can we realistically employ between now and the vote?

I am saying embrace the REALITY that WC IS the only alternative at the MOMENT..that is fact, the rest is emotional heresay!

We have to vote for WC and that is where all our energy must go to, cos I sure as hell don't want my savings to come to be liquidated at a possible outcome of 14c or less, NO FREAKING WAY!

After WC is voted we get to live another day and have the possibility to kick up as much stink as you want to keep the ba&%4tards honest. We have dodged a bullet and have bought the most prescious commodity in the world...<T-I-M-E> We have to understand that there is NOTHING else at present. 14 cents or WC..that's IT NOW!!!

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There were 5 others invited to be RE. I have no idea if they were interested or what their strategy would have been for the PIF. I don’t necessarily believe OCV gave the PIF to WC because they were the best of the 6 approached. I think it had more to do with how the PIF as a major creditor of OCV would treat them.

The backup plan is to have another RE to vote for (with a different strategy) if WC don’t get the vote. As I said it may not be possible to find another RE with a different strategy but worth a try. For you to know there is no other alternative leads me to think you must have already approached people?

Not sure what you mean by putting our energy into getting WC their 75%. I don’t think we can influence people to vote a particular way, it’s all going to come down to her strategy for the PIF which we still don’t know (or we are hoping we don’t know and that she is revising what she told us at the forums)

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

akernst said:

If this does not happen, then I will not be voting for Welliington, and will be
telling many other investors I know, to do the same.
Lets manage this fund ourselves, which is not as hard as people make out.

And looks like Wellington is going the same road as MFS, in telling us nothing.

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Agreed but after 2 1/2 months of this forum we haven't even managed to get a mission statement for an AG, let alone a constitution, board/committee and incorporated it. These things are beyond my skills.