Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi there fellow PIF investors,
I have been following this forum for some time and appreciate everyones input, I would like to add my support to Jenny Hudson, she in IMO is doing a very fine job in a difficult set of circumstances, had we had another RE would they have had the forsight to sue for the 147.5 mill so quickly thus having it included in the offer by Octaviar, this offer could still have some up side if we are included in the list of creditors that will be recognized in the next three years to follow.

We MUST all get behind Wellington and give them the 75% vote they need as there really is no other option

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hello All,
For completeness here is the article from 'The Australian' this morning:

OCTAVIAR has narrowly escaped liquidation, but it might be only a temporary reprieve for the debt-laden fund manager.

The former MFS was in the Supreme Court of Queensland yesterday, facing a wind-up claim from its biggest creditor over $350 million of unsecured notes. But the hearing was adjourned until September.

Ironically, the creditor seeking the wind-up, the Public Trustee of Queensland, will have washed its hands of the tortuously complicated saga bythen.

Solicitor-General Walter Sofronoff, on behalf of the Public Trustee, told the court the trustee had sought to resign from the role more than a year ago. It had not been able to do so until a willing and able replacement was found, which happened just this week.

Judge Richard Chesterman adjourned the wind-up application to its original hearing dates of September 9 and 10.

The note holders represented by the trustee are set to meet before then to determine whether they want to push ahead with the liquidation claim.

Seven other creditors were represented by their own counsel in court yesterday, including the Australian Tax Office, OPI Pacific Finance, Wellington Investment Management and Challenger Managed Investments.

The new trustee is the Trust Company. Its executive general manager of institutional services, Vicki Allen, said the note holders' meeting would determine whether they would join the workout proposal or if Trust would pursue the wind-up application.

The Public Trustee confirmed it had tendered a letter of resignation more than a year ago. "The appointment of a new Trustee by Octaviar Investment Notes Ltd is a matter beyond the control of the Public Trustee of Queensland," it said in a statement.

This does not add to our knowledge regarding PIF but reflects a different attitude to the future of Octavia, being a temporary stay of an ultimate liquidation.

I too am disappointed in JH's remarks about accepting $48 million without mentioning anything about trying for a share of any future earnings from a potential Octavia recovery.
However on second thoughts I don't think she would be making a public statement about any negotiations in progress for fear of generating false hope. There was no mention specifically of the action to recover the 147.5 million either which we are assured is still stands even if Octavia is wound up.
Perhaps there may still be some cause for optimism.
Mutchy
PS I am very impressed with some of the Smiley icons being used!

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dear Fellow Action Group Members

If any members of the Brisbane Action Group are interested in attending the Gold Coast AG meeting at 2 pm tomorrow please let me know .

I and one other member will be going , we may be able to organize something regarding transport.


Regards Chris

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DoraNBoots said:

Hi Great Dame,

I know you have said you have shares in OCV. Can you tell me how you feel about the OCV offer to the PIF in your situation?

Thanks,
Dora.

Click to expand...

Sure First OCV offer is the one & only offer JH had no choice it was take it or leave it If JH got more others would want the same AS for my situation I have given up of ever seeing any money coming back to me from OCV Thats life win some loose some I only hope i live long enough to see money come back to me from PIF i am not holding my breath though /

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I spoke to the WC hotline. They are saying JH has not accepted an offer. They said the media over the last day got it wrong. They said all creditors would need to agree to an offer and WC couldn’t accept if the others don’t. Anyone know if this is true?

They were not able to give any info except that no offer has been taken. No timeframe expect to say it could take a while for all creditors to accept although I do recall the Noteholders only have until Aug 11 to respond. I expressed my disapproval of JH mentioning the 13 cent liquidation figure which excludes Stella and the WC person agreed you can’t liquidate OCV and exclude Stella.

All of JHs quotes seem to fit with her plan to reduce the RBOS debt and give us special distributions so I don’t see how the media reports can be that wrong. I'm just hoping JH is getting some of Stella in the deal.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

In the Business spectator it states that WC application for the appointment of a new trustee was approved by the supreme court.
So it seems that JH made the application for a change of trustee which has resulted in the delay in the winding up and seems to show she is much more involved than we think.
However i still believe that our best way forward is with JH and will be voting that way. If, as she says, the $47m is a start and she continues to chase the balance of our money then I am of the opinion that a bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush.
We have personally already lost a heap in the LLA debacle and hope to get a better result over time from our PIF investment and that is certainly not going to happen through liquidation.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Here's the article. Wonder if this is 'wrong' too. Check out the text I made bold...

Octaviar survives bid to wind it up
Colin Kruger
July 25, 2008
AN ATTEMPT to wind up the ailing property group Octaviar - formerly known as MFS - appeared to have been derailed yesterday with the removal of the Public Trustee of Queensland as trustee for Octaviar's listed noteholders who are owed $348 million.

Wellington Capital, which manages the noteholders' investment via Octaviar's Premium Income Fund, successfully applied to Queensland's Supreme Court yesterday to appoint a new trustee for the noteholders and derail the Public Trustee of Queensland's bid to have Octaviar put into liquidation.
The trustee issued a statement last night saying it had not consented to the appointment of a new trustee and would "seek an order" to determine whether its "removal is valid".

"The Public Trustee of Queensland has no power to object to the appointment or to participate in the decision-making process. His consent to the proposed appointment is not required and has not been provided," it said.
The trustee said the new trustee was qualified for the role and it had "no reason to think that the proposed new trustee is not a fit and proper person to act as trustee of the deed in the interests of the noteholders, whose opinion the new trustee intends to seek immediately."
The new trustee was not named.

The trustee claims Octaviar defaulted on the listed notes which are now payable. The trustee has expressed concern about the "outflow of cash from the group" and said noteholders would be better off with the company in the hands of an "independent liquidator whose first duty is to the creditors".
Wellington Capital's chief, Jenny Hutson, has expressed support for a proposal by Octaviar's management to avoid liquidation and have its creditors accept a reduced payout.

Wellington Capital did not return the Herald's calls yesterday.
Octaviar's management has proposed a settlement with creditors - owed nearly $1 billion by the group - that would pay out 22.5c in the dollar for most creditors and up to 100 per cent of claims by small investors.
According to Octaviar's chief executive, Chris Scott, creditors would receive 13.9c in the dollar if the company was put into liquidation.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Mutchy said:

Hello All,
For completeness here is the article from 'The Australian' this morning:

Solicitor-General Walter Sofronoff, on behalf of the Public Trustee, told the court the trustee had sought to resign from the role more than a year ago.

The Public Trustee confirmed it had tendered a letter of resignation more than a year ago. "The appointment of a new Trustee by Octaviar Investment Notes Ltd is a matter beyond the control of the Public Trustee of Queensland," it said in a statement.

However on second thoughts I don't think she would be making a public statement about any negotiations in progress for fear of generating false hope.

Click to expand...

Hi Mutchy,

This may be all based on dollars now and legal action later.

1) Interesting to know why Public Trustee wanted to resign.
Is there a potential legal claim against the Public Trustee?
2) The loans/gifts in November & December 2007.
Is there a potential legal claim against directors etc...?

Please remember that JH is a solicitor and will always think like a solicitor.
Always consider the Law and use litigation at a later time.

Regards,
RickH:couch

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It's probably all been said before but the OCVG offer doc lists $232.8 of 'value' owed by OCV Ltd to PIF for which OCV Ltd is offering $50.61M.

I.e. we're being offered 21.74 cents in the dollar. Even the Tax Office, who pays ASIC to do nothing & Centrelink to not go out of their way to help us, get more than PIF.

What's the 'n/a' mean in the table in clause 3.7? Not Available or Not Applicable. If it's Not Applicable then OCVG , $100M BondHolders (Challenger) AND PAC are ALL being offered the upside - namely a return of 92.6c in 3-5 years. Just not PIF. Why NOT? Does JH think she can turn our $50.61M back into $215.6M ($232.8 * 92.6c) in 3-5 years herself? Fine, but I'll hold her to it. And it's going to be difficult for WC if large chunks of the capital is returned to us up front - or is that how WC can excuse themselves from the commitment.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Duped said:

What's the 'n/a' mean in the table in clause 3.7? Not Available or Not Applicable. If it's Not Applicable then OCVG , $100M BondHolders (Challenger) AND PAC are ALL being offered the upside - namely a return of 92.6c in 3-5 years. Just not PIF. Why NOT? Does JH think she can turn our $50.61M back into $215.6M ($232.8 * 92.6c) in 3-5 years herself? Fine, but I'll hold her to it. And it's going to be difficult for WC if large chunks of the capital is returned to us up front - or is that how WC can excuse themselves from the commitment.

Click to expand...

Yes Duped, everyone has been offered an upside in Stella except the PIF and the ATO. And even so the PTQ claim they can do better if OCV are in the hands of an administrator. From what I can gather from the media reports Challenger, ATO and PTQ were all in court to support liquidation, WC and PAC were opposed. I personally think the first bunch are more likely to know what they are doing and have no conflict of interest.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

oldjap said:

Hi there fellow PIF investors,
I have been following this forum for some time and appreciate everyones input, I would like to add my support to Jenny Hudson, she in IMO is doing a very fine job in a difficult set of circumstances, had we had another RE would they have had the forsight to sue for the 147.5 mill so quickly thus having it included in the offer by Octaviar, this offer could still have some up side if we are included in the list of creditors that will be recognized in the next three years to follow.

We MUST all get behind Wellington and give them the 75% vote they need as there really is no other option

Click to expand...

Agreed that we must avoid PIF being liquidated and if that means a vote for WC then so be it.

But I must disagree regarding the $147.5M. IMO an offer to creditors needs to include all creditors, not just those who sue. So IMO the offer to PIF would have been the same irrespective of whether PIF sued or not. In fact the offer covers $232.8M owed to PIF. Cheers.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DoraNBoots said:

Yes Duped, everyone has been offered an upside in Stella except the PIF and the ATO. And even so the PTQ claim they can do better if OCV are in the hands of an administrator. From what I can gather from the media reports Challenger, ATO and PTQ were all in court to support liquidation, WC and PAC were opposed. I personally think the first bunch are more likely to know what they are doing and have no conflict of interest.

Click to expand...

Are Challenger, ATO and PTQ after liquidation or administration? I suspect there is a big variation in how an entity can be wound up. But I'm no corporate lawyer. My only wish is to be sure that shareholders like King who created this farce get NONE of the upside.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Attached is a statement released by PTQ in relation to the change of Trustee.

Anyone done any digging on the new trustee to see if the CEO is CSs son?

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

MEDIA STATEMENT
27 July 2008
The appointment of a new Trustee by Octaviar Investment Notes Limited is a matter beyond the control of the Public Trustee of Queensland.
The circumstances permitting the Company to remove the Public Trustee of Queensland were outlined to the Supreme Court of Queensland today. They include the fact that the Company relied upon a letter of resignation tendered by the Public Trustee of Queensland to the Company over one year ago. That letter remained in abeyance because the Company was unable to find a replacement Trustee until very recently.
The proposed new Trustee is a qualified Trustee Company and the Public Trustee of Queensland has no reason to think that the proposed new trustee is not a fit and proper person to act as Trustee of the Deed in the interests of the Noteholders, whose opinion the new Trustee intends to seek immediately. The Noteholders can direct the new Trustee in accordance with the terms of the Trust Deed.
The Public Trustee of Queensland has no power to object to the appointment or to participate in the decision-making process. His consent to the proposed appointment is not required and has not been provided.
The only role the trustee has is to put the circumstances leading to the proposed appointment before the court and, once he is replaced, seek an order pursuant to his controlling Act that his removal is valid.
The Public Trustee of Queensland intends to take that step.
Ends... Typical of the media, they can't even get the date right!!!

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

There are so many twists and turns in this saga that I am learning not to react instantly to every event. My gut feeling is that there is a great deal going on behind the scenes at present. JH with all her forums and commitments is in this deeply. Her business reputation is being risked. It's healthy for us marooned investors to question all the moves, but in the end we're probably lucky not to have gone down completely under the the care of the previous lot. In other words, it could be a great deal worse!

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Chris Scott said, "Octaviar had set aside $130 million to pay back creditors owed $560 million, with another $400 million to be sourced from asset sales over the next three years."

Jenny Hutson said, "It's a clever solution to a complex problem."

Clever for who?

If WC accepts the immediate $48M offer, why should PIF investors be excluded from the other $400 million to be sourced over the next three years? We in the PIF are tired of being done-over!

Jenny Hutson, please get in there and FIGHT FOR US like you said you would! Your performance & PIF loyalty is now being judged.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

In one of her many brave and colorful quotes emerging from the media Jenny said something like "I will go to the ends of the world to find that $147.5m and not emerge from the battlefield till I get it".

This was just one month ago..here's your chance, you don't have to go far down the highway from Brisbane to get our money.

'Time tells all..you just have to live long enough'..quote from my grandmother!

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Jennifer Joan Hutson

Joan middle name, reminds me of "Joan of Arc", another lady on a mission.

But she got burnt at the stake, and that's not a nice ending.

When you manage say 50% of $ .75 B, I suppose that is quite a mission.

I trust this mission will have a much better ending.

Splitpin.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

The next time someone speaks to one of JH's reps at WC ask if they will join this forum and post once a day with an update. That would certainly clarify a lot of the unknowns, stop speculation and help clear certain matters up. A post once a day or even every second day would go along way.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Rocky,

It's worth asking but I think anything written will need to go though their legal guys. I discussed getting info to us with them today and they say how expensive it is to mail us and that only 10% of us have Internet access. And that anything put on their web site needs to go through legal so it's not a process they can quickly do to respond to our concerns.