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Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

seamisty said:
I agree Rick, while this scenario is not going to please everyone it is the most practical to date and so far apart from liquidation, is our only option. No other interest or offers from other parties. Even if we had control of the PIF to approach other parties for expressions of interest what will we have to offer them at the present time? A fund that had half its assets/value stripped in 6 months, some of which is going to be tied up in complicated legal proceedings for years with the chance of little or no recovery? The rest floundering in an economic meltdown? Until such times as the PIF has been stabilised the only way foward is to let WC get on with the job with our full support. We can harp on about alternate exit strategies until the cows come home, but it is not going to change the outcome unless unit holders are prepared to accept 14cents per unit and liquidate the Fund. Sorry people, but it is time to face the truth and make a decision.We have the voting power to reassess the situation at a future date. We will receive information packs in the mail shortly so hopefully this will give investors a better overall picture as to the future JH proposes for the PIF. regards, Seamisty
Click to expand...

I can only agree wholeheartily with Seamisty's and similar caliber conclusions of our real direction at forthcomig vote-meeting.
Let us recall the last voting opportunity we had at June 23, '06 in Melbourne where resolutions 1 & 2 were (infamously in hindsight) adapted.
That was in respect of changes to Constitution re Remuneration structures;
extension of redemption periods; substitution of Capital Insurance with "Support Facility" and so on.
There were no Lonsec's analysis on the proposals to guide us and to present to us landscapes of yes/no outcomes; I state this as I personally received none.
Consequences of those adaptions are haunting us today.
I will welcome sensible corrections to my understanding of this recent history.
My main point though is: that reasoning by SEAMISTY needs to be popularised to the point of ensuring that no fractured voting will occur on the day crucial for our unity.
This forthcoming voting WE MUST get it right.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

simgrund said:
I can only agree wholeheartily with Seamisty's and similar caliber conclusions of our real direction at forthcomig vote-meeting.
Let us recall the last voting opportunity we had at June 23, '06 in Melbourne where resolutions 1 & 2 were (infamously in hindsight) adapted.
That was in respect of changes to Constitution re Remuneration structures;
extension of redemption periods; substitution of Capital Insurance with "Support Facility" and so on.
There were no Lonsec's analysis on the proposals to guide us and to present to us landscapes of yes/no outcomes; I state this as I personally received none.
Consequences of those adaptions are haunting us today.
I will welcome sensible corrections to my understanding of this recent history.
My main point though is: that reasoning by SEAMISTY needs to be popularised to the point of ensuring that no fractured voting will occur on the day crucial for our unity.
This forthcoming voting WE MUST get it right.
Click to expand...

Simgrund

Apparantly the last entry to ASIC on 2 June 2008 for the name change to PIF was signed and sealed for for and on behalf of Octaviar Investment Management Limited ACN 101 634 146 by authority of the directors in the presence of Directors Jennifer Joan Hutson and Sydney Robert Pitt.

Does this mean the fund is still registered in the name of Octaviar Investment Management Limited.

It appears there was a share transfer in ASX to buy the managment rights but where is ASIC notified of the change of RE.

Can somebody answer this query.

Regards


Splitpin
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DoraNBoots said:
Old news now but still interesting to see JH mention the OCV offer

View attachment 22680
Click to expand...

Hi all,
I've been following this forum for a while as my mum has invested in PIF. I appreciate all the time people are putting into this. My only interest is to see us all get max return on our $, even if it takes a while.

My mum has a financial advisor (who put her into PIF) and in his opinion PIF should be ranked near the top of the list of OCV creditors; higher than shareholders if it can be shown that this money was stripped from the fund against the funds rules.

Can anyone confirm this?

I just saw JH response to the OCV offer to PIF of 22.5 c in $.

Does anyone else get the sinking feeling she will accept this on our behalf and walk away from probably an equal amount left in Stella?

As far as I can see if JH accepts the 22.5c payout it is less than half of what OCV is worth (and would allow OCV to keep the 35% Stella share).

We have not heard any news on what JH is doing to recover this huge amount?

I would trust that JH knows what she is doing in trying to keep OCV going rather that letting it be wound up and installing an administrator.

Has any of you heard directly from JH about this? Would be good to know she's doing all she can to recover it (and worth following up next time anyone is talking to JH?)

I'm also struggling to understand how (I think I read) OCV are now offering most creditors 22.5 c or more per $ and at the same time saying if wound up the value is only 12 c in $ for all. If I got this wrong I apologise, but if correct and it's just a tactic from OCV to keep creditors at bay...why is it so obvious?

As far as the PIF goes, I'm in favour of not winding up the PIF in a big rush...I think everyone agrees it will result in forced sales etc and lower returns to us.

regards
DC1
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Can anyone tell me please...I too have a financial adviser who put my money into PIF... can I sue him?
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Welcome DC1.

You can read the OCV offer to the OCVG note holders dated 18July on the ASX.AU website.

From my reading of the offer to OCVG Noteholders, the complete offer to PIF was still to be put forward to PIF (WC). But that's probabaly been done now - we won't have seen it and may never see the full offer.

There were some details in the 18 July OCVG offer relating to what would be offered to PIF. The problem with those details is that PIF would be left with NO UPSIDE. All the upside would go to the OCV Ltd shareholders who have been swamped with 'dividends' over the years which IMO were paid out of creditors' money, PIF money. (PIF paid MFS $16 MILLION in 06/07.) Totally unacceptable to me. But there might be more of the upside for PIF in the formal complete offer to PIF. Only JH will know.

IMO the OCVG offer naturally fails to mention a third option, where the creditors take control of the assets. OCVG, Voyager, NAB, PIF and PAC get together (do a better deal with the ATO) and bankrupt OCV Ltd (so the shareholders get nothing more) then re-combine the divided assets into a new company hire all the old staff/board and then say, hello "we're your new shareholders, now get to work and get our money back over the next three years like you said you could". Us creditors get the UPSIDE, not the current shareholders, and there's NO FIRE SALE.

Fact is the $450M for OCVG & Voyager wasn't due back for 3 years anyway, PAC has voted on a 3 year moratorium and PIF ... well I'm certainly in for 3 years if it means I get all my money back and guess what: that's what WC is aiming for as well. So to me the 3rd option is a no-brainer. But of course the current OCV shareholders won't like it one bit, but frankly, they've had their turn with the feed bag, it's our turn now.

IMO OCVG & Voyager only got litigious because they were concerned that OCV Ltd would be stripped while they stood by and they'd be left with nothing. OCV Ltd's integrity was shot, they'd sold the family jewels, IMF was offering a fighting fund and then CS goes and gives the PIF RE to WC for a song. No wonder OCVG & Voyager were a bit miffed.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Change of trustee gives Octavier survival plan hopeArticle from: Font size: Decrease Increase Email article: Email Print article: Print Submit comment: Submit comment Anthony Marx

July 25, 2008 12:00am
OCTAVIAR has avoided liquidation at the hands of the Public Trustee of Queensland after a new trustee agreed to take on the overseeing of the embattled finance and tourism group formerly known as MFS.

A Brisbane court heard yesterday that listed Trust Company will now act as trustee of the company if a meeting of creditors owed more than $1 billion support an Octaviar plan to pay back just a fraction of that amount.

Sydney-based Trust is one of the nation's oldest and biggest financial management companies and had first flagged interest in taking over after the PTQ sought to resign last year.

Octaviar executive director Chris Scott hailed the apparent collapse of the PTQ's legal challenge yesterday as "a win for everybody".

"Common sense has prevailed. Now we can sit down and talk to everybody and fully explain the proposal to everybody without this hanging over our head," he said.

Seven creditors - including Challenger Management Investments, Fortress Capital and Wellington Capital - joined Octaviar in calling for an adjournment of the case until September 9.

The Australian Taxation Office had supported a wind-up but later agreed to the adjournment, which was approved by Justice Richard Chesterman.

Most creditors believe a settlement offer put forward last week by Octaviar will provide better returns than any money squeezed out through a costly liquidation process that could take three to five years.

Mr Scott said creditors would receive just 13.9 in the dollar under a wind-up scenario.

The PTQ filed suit in the Supreme Court in early June to appoint a liquidator over $351 million owed to 560 listed noteholders and raised fears about possibly improper disposal of assets.

Queensland solicitor-general Walter Sofronoff QC, acting for the PTQ, told the court that his client still believed that Octaviar was insolvent and supported a scheme of arrangement under court supervision.

The PTQ also wanted undertakings to preserve assets, a key reason for bringing forward yesterday's hearing from September 9, he said.

Mr Scott said last week that Octaviar had set aside $130 million to pay back creditors owed $560 million, with another $400 million to be sourced from asset sales over the next three years.

About 200 of the noteholders at the heart of the PTQ case would receive full payment of monies owing if they accept the deal by August 11.

Brisbane merchant banker Jenny Hutson, whose firm Wellington Capital is the responsible entity of the former MFS Premium Income Fund, said yesterday she was ready to accept $47.8 million of the $197.5 million owed to her 10,385 clients.

She said liquidation would deliver only half that. "This is about economic rationality. It's a clever solution to a complex problem," she said.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Court decision lets Octaviar fight on::::::July 25th, 2008

Nick Nichols and Emmaline Stigwood

OCTAVIAR won a major reprieve yesterday after a winding-up action against the company was adjourned so that creditors could consider a payout offer from the embattled Gold Coast company.

In an extraordinary scene, a dozen high-priced silks and their associated solicitors crammed into Court 16 in the Queensland Supreme Court yesterday morning, all vying for the same outcome: saving Octaviar, formerly known as MFS, from collapse.

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Gold Coast business news

After the Queensland Public Trustee last week moved to speed up a winding-up application against Octaviar, all creditors to the company, including the Public Trustee and the James Packer-backed Challenger Financial Services, yesterday backed off.

Although Octaviar director and key shareholder Chris Scott welcomed the outcome yesterday, he blasted the Public Trustee for draining 'hundreds of thousand of dollars' from Octaviar's precious cash reserves in its defence of the action.

"This thing has cost us a bomb," said Mr Scott. "I think it's outrageous."

Yesterday's bill for silks alone would have been about $60,000, said one court observer.

Among the barristers was Tony Morris, QC, representing Octaviar's New Zealand subsidiary OPI Finance.

Mr Morris is better known for his probe into the malpractice allegations against former Bundaberg surgeon Jayant Patel.

Mr Scott said winding-up Octaviar, which has debts of more than $1 billion and cash in the bank of $150 million, was never a viable option.

110 He said insolvency specialist Korda Mentha, after a review of Octaviar's operations earlier this year, forecast a January liquidation of the then MFS would have delivered creditors just 5c in the dollar.

Last week, Octaviar put forward a plan to pay out all of its unsecured creditors, some of them in full.

Holders of listed Octaviar notes, owed $351 million and represented by the Public Trustee, were offered 100c in the dollar for the first $5000 they invested, and 22.5c in the dollar for anything above $5000.

Acceptance would see 200 of the 560 noteholders, with small investments, repaid in full.

The same offer has been extended to Challenger, owed $100 million, and the Jenny Hutson-controlled Premium Income Fund, owed $197.5 million.

Octaviar also owes OPI Pacific Finance $246 million, the National Australia Bank $40 million and the Australian Taxation Office $53 million.

The Supreme Court yesterday adjourned the winding up action against Octaviar until September 9, giving creditors time to consider the payout offer.

The consensus among creditors yesterday indicated a permanent stay of proceedings was likely.

Ms Hutson, a corporate lawyer, described yesterday's proceedings as 'an extraordinary legal event'.

"It's unfortunate that it had to happen, but the reality is there was something big to defend."

Ms Hutson said the Premium Income Fund would accept the payout offer from Octaviar.

"If it had been wound up, the analysis we've done indicates that of the $200 million owed to the Premium Income Fund, we would have received just $26 million.

"Under the arrangement that's on the table, we'll get $48 million.

"What I found extraordinary was that it was economically irrational for anyone to want to wind up the company."

The proceedings against Octaviar apparently hinged on a new trustee being appointed to the noteholders.

The Trust Company of Australia (TCA) yesterday agreed to take over from the Public Trustee of Queensland.

TCA was ready to assume management of the notes in January after the Public Trustee tendered its resignation last year.

But the 'Black Friday' collapse of MFS and the subsequent freeze on the company's shares warded off the TCA until a clearer picture of MFS's financial position could be determined.

Mr Scott would not be drawn on the ultimate fate of the company following yesterday's reprieve.

He said Octaviar's future was still in the hands of creditors, although he noteholders and bondholders with smaller sums invested would likely accept the offer.

Along with the cash offer, Octaviar has given creditors the option of staying with the company as a secured creditor for the next three years.

"In terms of the investrment profitle of the fund, the cash offer is much more desireable," said Ms Hutson.

The payout from Octaviar will wipe out the remaining $35 million debt owed by the Premium Income Fund.

Ms Hutson yesterday said a surplus of funds after the payout would be returned to unit holders as a special distribution.

This will be on top of the proposed 3c a unit they are expected to receive by December.

Ms Hutson would not quantify the special distribution.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DC1 I agree with everything you wrote. I have the same fears and I think they are being realised! I can’t believe what Jenny has said in the last two articles posted! It’s exactly my worst fears!


“Ms Hutson said the Premium Income Fund would accept the payout offer from Octaviar…..
"Under the arrangement that's on the table, we'll get $48 million.”

Is anyone else disgusted by this? :eek:To me this proves Jenny is unable to remove herself from the interests of the OCV shareholders and get the best outcome for the PIF. I don’t believe Jenny’s OCV liquidation figures of 13 cents and think she is just trying to scare us. Doesn’t sound like she is going for any cut of Stella! And the mention of special distribution thanks to taking the deal is no substitute for getting as much money back that was taken from us.

I was thinking the PTQ were on the right track and I am disappointed they are now out of the picture. Interesting how PTQ and ATO were both preferring liquidation over the pathetic OCV offer.

Dora.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DoraNBoots said:
DC1 I agree with everything you wrote. I have the same fears and I think they are being realised! I can’t believe what Jenny has said in the last two articles posted! It’s exactly my worst fears!


“Ms Hutson said the Premium Income Fund would accept the payout offer from Octaviar…..
"Under the arrangement that's on the table, we'll get $48 million.”

Is anyone else disgusted by this? :eek:To me this proves Jenny is unable to remove herself from the interests of the OCV shareholders and get the best outcome for the PIF. I don’t believe Jenny’s OCV liquidation figures of 13 cents and think she is just trying to scare us. Doesn’t sound like she is going for any cut of Stella! And the mention of special distribution thanks to taking the deal is no substitute for getting as much money back that was taken from us.

I was thinking the PTQ were on the right track and I am disappointed they are now out of the picture. Interesting how PTQ and ATO were both preferring liquidation over the pathetic OCV offer.

Dora.
Click to expand...
Your right on the money what you say Dora I fully agree with you ////////
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Along with the cash offer, Octaviar has given creditors the option of staying with the company as a secured creditor for the next three years.

Does this mean PIF as well or just refers to the noteholders, I hope it means ALL creditors, if JH is happy just taking this cash now she will lose a lot of credibility. Surely she can't show that much disregard to us with no further upside for us.

She loves making comments to the media, why can't she just say "yes we will thake this $48m now as a platform for further negotiations and we will not push for OCV to be liquidated".

I note we still owe $35m to RBOS, if this did not come from OCV, where would it have come from by the end of this month, as was the date JH mentioned that we would be rid of the debt??
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Javier said:
Along with the cash offer, Octaviar has given creditors the option of staying with the company as a secured creditor for the next three years.

Does this mean PIF as well or just refers to the noteholders, I hope it means ALL creditors, if JH is happy just taking this cash now she will lose a lot of credibility. Surely she can't show that much disregard to us with no further upside for us.

She loves making comments to the media, why can't she just say "yes we will thake this $48m now as a platform for further negotiations and we will not push for OCV to be liquidated".

I note we still owe $35m to RBOS, if this did not come from OCV, where would it have come from by the end of this month, as was the date JH mentioned that we would be rid of the debt??
Click to expand...
When I spoke to WC yesterday I was told that Jh would be using the OCV offer as a platform to negotiate further upside on the deal on behalf of the PIF. I think the RBOS debt was to be cleared from money that will be paid to the PIF from Arctic Capital in the LLA deal. Regards, Seamisty
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Yes, seems like JH had planned to take this deal all along to get rid of the RBOS debt. The OCV offer released on the 18 July says PIF will take the $50mil now and be gone, no upside of Stella, no more legal action, no more money. It's possible another offer has been given to JH privately or that she is negotiating a better deal but her comments in the media do not indicate this. She has referred to the figures in the OCV offer at this link:
http://newsstore.smh.com.au/apps/previewDocument.ac?docID=GCA00861380OCV&f=pdf

I recall Jenny saying they would only get $10mill upfront from the LLA deal. My Brisbane notes say "$10mil in July plus $35mil over time." (JH said in the media article above, the OCV offer will clear the RBOS debt)
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Well if this was the case Seamistry, she had a perfect opportunity to state that in the media where everybody reads papers, that would have given us all some good news FOR A CHANGE!!!

But no, not to be..I think Ms Hutson still has a very strong bond with Mr Scott, I don't care what she says. Who knows for all we know she might still have a truck load of shares in OCV.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Javier said:
Well if this was the case Seamistry, she had a perfect opportunity to state that in the media where everybody reads papers, that would have given us all some good news FOR A CHANGE!!!

But no, not to be..I think Ms Hutson still has a very strong bond with Mr Scott, I don't care what she says. Who knows for all we know she might still have a truck load of shares in OCV.
Click to expand...

Javier

If the fund is still registered in the name of Octaviar Investment Management Limited and WC is only the manager, your would certainly need a lot of convincing that the RE is acting in our best interests.

And if Octavia were to be liquidated , does that mean the liquidator would automatically get PIF.

Looks like a lot of risk mitigation (particually for Octaviar shareholders) and financial engineering.

Interesting times, but more to come yet.

Regards


Splitpin
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

SPLITPIN said:
Javier

If the fund is still registered in the name of Octaviar Investment Management Limited and WC is only the manager, your would certainly need a lot of convincing that the RE is acting in our best interests.

And if Octavia were to be liquidated , does that mean the liquidator would automatically get PIF.

Looks like a lot of risk mitigation (particually for Octaviar shareholders) and financial engineering.

Interesting times, but more to come yet.

Regards


Splitpin
Click to expand...
You know we are all forgetting a lot of PIF unit holders could have a lot of shares in Octaviar as well As you say Splitpin interestings times //////////
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

great dame said:
You know we are all forgetting a lot of PIF unit holders could have a lot of shares in Octaviar as well As you say Splitpin interestings times //////////
Click to expand...

Hi Great Dame,

I know you have said you have shares in OCV. Can you tell me how you feel about the OCV offer to the PIF in your situation?

Thanks,
Dora.
 
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

.Quote from this mornings AFR:-:::: " Another Octaviar creditor, Double Knob Pty Ltd, also hired a silk to help stop the winding up. Double Knob is headed by Brett Heading, chairman of Bribane law firm McCullough Robertson." :::: For those of you who don't already know, Brett Heading is JH's husband. JH has already said she will do her utmost best to restore stability and value to the PIF, so if she gets assistance from her husband to achieve this, I don't have a problem with that. (please don't shoot the messenger!:hide:) Seamisty
 

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