Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

Rocky1 said:

Great Dame

Please do us all a favor and take your negativity else where. Things you haven't considered of digested from this forum
1. JH is going to provide us a more transparent breakdown of the funds loans and investments. From this we will get a better feel for it's state and potential to recover.
2. The fund will over time recover in part from realising true capital value (property prices are deflated at the moment). I would rather wait 3-5 years to realise $11 mill than take $1 mill through liquidation at the moment.
3. a 3 cent (most likely tax free) distribution by December is probably worth 4.25 cents before tax (8.5%)
4. Once RBOS is out of the picture (predicted end of August) the fund will in fact be making money. Lets say the fund is worth $430,000,000 and is conservatively returning 8% that equates to $34,400,000. (if JH takes 2.89 mill there is a little bit of change).
5. If we bail on the fund what is the likely recovery of the 147.5 Million and 50 Million owed by OCV - NOT VERY HIGH!!!!!. JH has already moved to make us an equal creditor of 5. She has predicted OCV is probably worth 400 mill in cash and assets. I for one would rather back JH and get 80 mill (1/5th of 400 mill) than $0.

I am big believer in the fat we can all have an opinion, but lets work with facts and stop going around in circles posting the same old negativity.

Yes things aren't ideal, but we are all in the same boat and the only way we can move forward is to back JH. She might not get to $1 in 5 years but I am backing she will go close - POSITIVITY!!!!!!!!!

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great dame said:

No i am not a menber of the AG group Would you like me to be ? Look Splitpin any DH can get up on the stage and say they save us all guves us no detail what so ever how its going to be done untill i see it in detail in print how its going to be done its just cheap talk to win us over Sorry if i upset a few folk by being blunt But thats me /////////

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RickH said:

Hi Great dame,
I do not disagree with everything that you say because many people make promises that they never intend to keep AND we do need to see what JH is planning.

I will refer to the 6 cents annual return with the potential to recover $1.00.

You have stated that you would accept 30 cents in the dollar.
Point 1) IF the already mentioned regular 6 cent annual payment is a possibility together with the value of units/shares growing to $1.00 within 3/5 (even 7 years).
Please consider - IF you accept 30 cents you will need to receive 20% per annum to equal the potential 6 cents regular annual return.

The better risk reward option may be to go with JH and receive the 6 cents per annum regular plus the goal to grow to $1.00 value.

After JH has completed her presentation and consider voting for JH to be the RE even if she does want to list on the NSX.
I am reasonably sure that there are many existing investors who will analyse the assets held within the PIF plus the potential legal claims and pay you your desired 30 cents or it may even be advantageous PIF to purchase your units at 30 cents and increase everyone elses chances of growing the NTA to $1.00 and above.
IF I was your financial planner I would recommend that you probably should not accept such a low return on your $1.00 invested and IF you have invested most of your funds into MFS I would recommend the loan strategy would be your better option.
PS: I really want to follow this fund and encourage the RE to grow the fund to $1.00 plus AND also to take all legal actions to claim against those responsible for the Nov/Dec loans/gifts to MFS. There may be time to make a stand and try to send these people to jail after we have collected as much money from them as possible.

OUR MAJOR PROBLEM IS THE 75% VOTE. WE CANNOT AFFORD TO LEAVE THE DOOR OPEN TO LIQUIDATION AND 14 CENTS EVEN 30 CENTS IS TOO LOW.

Everyone needs to pull together to achieve a suitable outcome. We have very limited time -
We should consider the following:

AT the start of the meeting have a vote
1) VOTE: (Needs 75% to not liquidate)
a) Not to liquidate PIF.
b) To liquidate PIF.


Vote should be - a) Not to liquidate PIF.

2) VOTE:
a) To elect JH as RE and fund manager at 0.7% fees per annum.
b) Vote for another RE.

Vote should be - a) To elect JH as RE and fund manager at 0.7% fees per annum.

Then we can consider the better options in detail without the need to liquidate PIF.

3) OPTIONS TO BE PRESENTED BY THE NEW RE - JH.
a) Benefits for the listing on the NSX.
b) Benefits for staying as an UN-listed fund.

This vote can then be deferred etc.

But it all depends - JE may only want to be the RE if PIF is NSX listed????
Regards,
RickH

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goldfinger38 said:

I am seeing these latest comments on the forum and there is a lot of emotion and anger present with some of the comments, this forum is meant to be constructive and informative to those who have an interest in what is happening with our money and to those who may not have been able to attend andy of the meetings and hopefully to gain some clearer explanation of what is going on moving forward.

I dont see any value in making emotive statements that are negative at this time until we do actually see the information that we have asked for at the forums. Especially when ALL of the facts have yet to be put out to all of us to digest. JH stated that the audited account as signed off by Price Waterhouse Coopers would be made available to investors when they bacame available and they would back up the valuations provided under the three scenarios. Remembering it wasnt JH that provided the valuations it was 333 Capital a part of Korda Mentha who are experts in solvency and liquidation of companies and were contracted by Octaviar and PIF to provide their assessment and valuations.

She has stated that after the final meeting this week they would be putting out as much information as possible with regard to the questions raised and answers provided. They have already put in links on their webiste for the PIF about the meeting held in Melbourne so those who didnt attend could here the presentation.

In any case she hasnt even been given the vote of approval by us as investors yet to be able to do anything with the fund. if she doesnt get the 75% for vote she wont be doing anything for us and the liquidation of the fund will proceed.

Re LEGAL proceedings or Action

She has already mentioned that she has engaged the services of a legal silk with regard to the claim against Octaviar for the $147.5 million on top of the $50, million that they are already asking for from Octaviar in order to increase the level of claim that may be payable to creditors when/if Octaviar are forced into Administration by the other creditors. So she is demonstrating she is trying to maximise our potential to recover as much as possible as a creditor to Octaviar as 20c - 40c in the $ from the spoils is better on $197.5 million than $50 million only.

In any case again she wont be able to do too much until she get our vote to continue with the fund and its ongoing operation. If along the way in the running of the fund investors find that she may not be the right person together with WC to run our fund, investors have the ability to call an EGM to appoint a new RE. So we still have the ability to control our destiny.

We want the best possible outcome for us as investors and yes there are those with differing agendas, but if the majority are for a positive outcome then I can see no reason to doubt her current assertions with the continued running of the fund. Lets at least give her a chance to provide the information so we can make an "informed decision".

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great dame said:

No i am not a menber of the AG group Would you like me to be ?

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great dame said:

RICH untill we all see in detail on paper it is all TALK iven if our mony goes back to a $1 maybe 7 years (some of us could be dead by then) Tell me Rick how to we cash that in it wont work on the NSX & you should know that surley ???///

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breaker1 said:

Mate, I've got this awful feeling that another genuine redemption plan besides the NSX won't materialise.

.

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deano1 said:

yes all getting very emotive as everything comes to a head - i'll come back to the points i have raised here before - before anyone can make an informed decision - WC have to come out and explain exactly what the assets are that are supporting the loans - they dont have to break and commercial confidentialities to do this - like i think Rocky1 has said loan A is supported by an asset in X state ie QLD / Gold coast - the loan value is X and we value that asset at Y - the liquidators value that asset as Z - we think we can achieve Valuation Y over X number of months years ( dont forget the result she has achieved in the liquidation of the 32 apartments last week - that should give people confidence on her valuation models) - 2 liquidation is not necessarily the worst case scenario - Korda Mentha is still liquidating the Ansett debacle and when it all washes up most of the employees will end up getting most of their cash back - ( yeah inflation has made their $1 less than what it is but they still look like getting their money out) a liquidation / or administration doesn't have to be cut and run - it can be an orderly process - i'm not decided on my mums and brothers behalf which way they should go yet as i really want to see what is in this fund before decisions get made - but what i really do want to see is the thieves who have stolen the money - if they have 1c buried somewhere - i want that recovered - the directors of MFS are personally liable for the criminal activity if they knowingly permitted it to occur and from what i have heard, read - seen - they knew - they are guilty - and they need to be persued - i think you will find they have money buried everywhere and the longer they have to shift this away from recovery - the harder and more expensive it becomes to recover it. persue whats nearest and dearest to these thieves - their wallet and listen to the scream - i'd like to hear some fighting words from WC on this front - I'd be anti listing on any exchange if you can keep the process in house your not opening yourself to any sort of market manipulation - remember someone offering 20c is probably going to get hit on the bid at the moment - and if the fund is worth say 45c now they are in front and do not share the same objectives as the current unit holders - although i do recognise the need for some sort of facility to allow those desperatly in need of some cash to get access to it.
My final comment yes WC are in it to make money for themselves - i hope they make a fortune as they will make a silk purse out of a sows ear - and the unit holders will ultimately benefit - but if they can't turn it around its going to be your money going to pay them for something that could have been done via administration.

Until you see the loan book, assets and a valuation comparison all this is just venting over a bllody disgraceful set of circumstances - once you get the details then you can make an informed decision - and JH, WC or anyone else cannot suggest / infer whats best for you - you need to make the decision based on having access to all the facts you need to make that decision.

Hope i havent stirred up any hornets nest - as i have said before i have 30 years experience in Investment banking have been a director of over 40 public companies and whats happened here is the worst example of governance i have ever seen from people claiming to be professionals in my life time.

Regards

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great dame said:

ROCKY i must speak to JH & get you on her Payroll Your doing a good job for her First what i am saying on these posts is nothing to what im giving to her in my emails to her i will keep the pressure on her till i get the truth Gee Wiss Woopee we are going to get 3 cents tax free she said maybe another 3 cents next year That is not a real Div she has to sell the faimley silver to pay for it Then sell a bit more to get her fat fee I want her fees to come performence not eating away at the fund You are wrong about the $147.5 Mill not getting it back if we bail out Look i want my money back like the rest of us But the way i see it it will be more like 10 years not 5 Now rocky my friend if you dont like what i send then dont read the truth SIMPLE /////

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RickH said:

Hi Great dame,
I do not disagree with everything that you say because many people make promises that they never intend to keep AND we do need to see what JH is planning.

I will refer to the 6 cents annual return with the potential to recover $1.00.

You have stated that you would accept 30 cents in the dollar.
Point 1) IF the already mentioned regular 6 cent annual payment is a possibility together with the value of units/shares growing to $1.00 within 3/5 (even 7 years).
Please consider - IF you accept 30 cents you will need to receive 20% per annum to equal the potential 6 cents regular annual return.

The better risk reward option may be to go with JH and receive the 6 cents per annum regular plus the goal to grow to $1.00 value.

After JH has completed her presentation and consider voting for JH to be the RE even if she does want to list on the NSX.
I am reasonably sure that there are many existing investors who will analyse the assets held within the PIF plus the potential legal claims and pay you your desired 30 cents or it may even be advantageous PIF to purchase your units at 30 cents and increase everyone elses chances of growing the NTA to $1.00 and above.
IF I was your financial planner I would recommend that you probably should not accept such a low return on your $1.00 invested and IF you have invested most of your funds into MFS I would recommend the loan strategy would be your better option.
PS: I really want to follow this fund and encourage the RE to grow the fund to $1.00 plus AND also to take all legal actions to claim against those responsible for the Nov/Dec loans/gifts to MFS. There may be time to make a stand and try to send these people to jail after we have collected as much money from them as possible.

OUR MAJOR PROBLEM IS THE 75% VOTE. WE CANNOT AFFORD TO LEAVE THE DOOR OPEN TO LIQUIDATION AND 14 CENTS EVEN 30 CENTS IS TOO LOW.

Everyone needs to pull together to achieve a suitable outcome. We have very limited time -
We should consider the following:

AT the start of the meeting have a vote
1) VOTE: (Needs 75% to not liquidate)
a) Not to liquidate PIF.
b) To liquidate PIF.


Vote should be - a) Not to liquidate PIF.

2) VOTE:
a) To elect JH as RE and fund manager at 0.7% fees per annum.
b) Vote for another RE.

Vote should be - a) To elect JH as RE and fund manager at 0.7% fees per annum.

Then we can consider the better options in detail without the need to liquidate PIF.

3) OPTIONS TO BE PRESENTED BY THE NEW RE - JH.
a) Benefits for the listing on the NSX.
b) Benefits for staying as an UN-listed fund.

This vote can then be deferred etc.

But it all depends - JE may only want to be the RE if PIF is NSX listed????
Regards,
RickH

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Janiss said:

MFS is really in dire straits and it is very unlikely that we will see a cent of the $147.5 Million plus $50 million.
At the moment there are over $1 billion worth of claims against MFS, the most significant being:
1. $50 Million shareholder Action by IMF
2. $349 Million Public Trustee of Queensland - court hearing on 9/10 September
3. $100 million in bonds - Challenger - hearing 21 July

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great dame said:

ROCKY i must speak to JH & get you on her Payroll Your doing a good job for her First what i am saying on these posts is nothing to what im giving to her in my emails to her i will keep the pressure on her till i get the truth Gee Wiss Woopee we are going to get 3 cents tax free she said maybe another 3 cents next year That is not a real Div she has to sell the faimley silver to pay for it Then sell a bit more to get her fat fee I want her fees to come performence not eating away at the fund You are wrong about the $147.5 Mill not getting it back if we bail out Look i want my money back like the rest of us But the way i see it it will be more like 10 years not 5 Now rocky my friend if you dont like what i send then dont read the truth SIMPLE /////

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great dame said:

IT makes my heart feel good when the fish are biting It makes for a stronger debate all round Chees

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great dame said:

There is much better ways to the what JH is giving us at the monent It hase to be better then a Yes or No vote ////////

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SPLITPIN said:

Great Dame

Jadel says you are a member with great mental strain and you say you are not.

If you are a typical text message representation of the no vote for JH, she has nothing to worry about.

Why don't you stop cluttering up ciberspace with your views and give sombody else a go.

Splitpin

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RickH said:

Hi Great dame,
Please consider and then answer the question truthfully.

When you originally invested your hard earned money into PIF was it your intention to
1) Invest for the long term and be happy to receive say 8% plus per annum and leave the capital in a safe haven.
2) Invest your money for a very short term because you intended to spend all of this capital over the following 3, 5 OR 7 YEARS.
What were your goals when you originally invested into PIF?
Regards,
RickH

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Duped said:

Fantastic. What are these better ways? I've got a big fat mortgage now. I've had a look at the numbers and if I can get the 45c out by this time next year I'm soooooooooo taking it.

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great dame said:

If there is 45 cents for me too i will walk backwards bare footed over brocken glass to get it ///////

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