Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I think I've read in two different media articles that the fund will be listed on the ASX. I'm sure this was a mistake but it's a worry if some investers don't realise this is a mistake or assume the NSX is the same as the ASX.

I really don’t know what Jenny is expecting the fund to do over the 3 to 5 yr term. A lot of comments are being made here that I personally didn’t hear Jenny say in Brisbane. I know she may be refining her strategy as she goes but I find it very confusing to hear so many different opinions on what she is doing. It would be nice if WC could put something on the newpif web site clearly explaining the 3 to 5 yr strategy for the fund including the expected returns, expected capital and exit strategies. I realise these will be estimates but that’s better than nothing. Let me know if this info is already available somewhere.

I'm looking forward to feedback from the Newcastle meeting.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

RickH said:

Interesting statement great dame,
I might be dumb but i am sure not stupit ////////
Any business person would want to increase their profits that means to grow the assets under management via responsible fund mangement. Please remember that if JH completely fails as the RE/Fund manager she may lose the respect and leadership qualities that she has worked so hard to achieve. Fund managers, financial planners and investors all want the same thing - that is good returns on invested capital.
Unfortunately there are some people who have no idea and maybe even invested more than 50% of their capital into one investment. I am concerned for my clients funds because there may be some very stupid people around who may scare other people into voting to liquidate the fund.
JH wants all investors to recover their capital within 3-5 years while receiving 6 cents per annum plus she would want to continue to grow PIF into one of the biggest and best managed funds in Australia.
To me that would be a perfect outcome. I have not seen pigs flying lately Nore have i seen water running up hill
Obviously there are no guarantees but 14 cents is not an option.
RickH.

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Tell me RickH do you believe in the tooth Fairley Have you seen pigs flying lately Or water running up hill We are in a propley slump could be for 3 to 5 years But your wonder women JH will over come all this & increase the fund by 46% O come on ypur not that nave sureley RichH that will not happen People like you only believe want to beleve in /////////

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DoraNBoots said:

I think I've read in two different media articles that the fund will be listed on the ASX. I'm sure this was a mistake but it's a worry if some investers don't realise this is a mistake or assume the NSX is the same as the ASX.

I really don’t know what Jenny is expecting the fund to do over the 3 to 5 yr term. A lot of comments are being made here that I personally didn’t hear Jenny say in Brisbane. I know she may be refining her strategy as she goes but I find it very confusing to hear so many different opinions on what she is doing. It would be nice if WC could put something on the newpif web site clearly explaining the 3 to 5 yr strategy for the fund including the expected returns, expected capital and exit strategies. I realise these will be estimates but that’s better than nothing. Let me know if this info is already available somewhere.

I'm looking forward to feedback from the Newcastle meeting.

Click to expand...

JH is not telling us a thing If she gets the 75% we are all locked in And the only out is to sell give your units away then for nealey nothing if you want out She will have us all in the bag then /

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

great dame said:

None of you get it do you Wellington is in the business of making money for Wellington NOT US Eric

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Of course WC should make profit out of the PIF. At the BNE forum, JH VOLUNTEERED (IMO to her enormous credit given the circumstances) that WC is "in the business of being in business".

See if you can get hold of a book called The Warren Buffet Way.
Almost every business has three groups it needs to keep happy. Clients, Shareholders and Staff. Their interests conflict. Who gets the spoils? That's the question. A well run business gets the balance right.

I don't have the 2006 voting papers on me but based on my recollection, WC is proposing to RESTORE the fee structure that was in place prior to the 2006 amendment to the constitution.
At a fund value of $413M, 0.07% would yield WC a revenue of around $2.89M. IMO: not unreasonable when a general admin staff costs around $40K, then there's rent, IT hardware+software+staff, accounts software & staff, payroll, payroll tax, WC's own auditors, insurance premium, electricity bills, all those Council & State govt levies etc etc etc. Compare this to the $16M MFSIM took in 06/07 ($7.7M in 05/06 , $4.8M in 04/05)

We should all be very careful with how we treat info from this forum. There are parties who will benefit from the PIF being liquidated. More particularly, from a weakened resolve. Particularly, OCV Ltd shareholders and rival creditors. Who's going to be motivated to chase the $147.5+$50M after PIF is liquidated.

Artic could possible also benefit from a collapse of PIF. My understanding is the $45M will be paid back in tranches and after measures are met. Who's going to be motivated to chase the debt when the PIF's being wrapped up. Last time I checked, the main beneficiary of Artic owns a few newspapers doesn't he. I'm not saying that the press is engaged in dodgy reporting. I'm just pointing out the potential for conflict of interest.

And before you throw 'it's their obligation to ... ' at me: what ... like MFS IM CEO Guy Hutchings' obligation (as stipulated in the PDS), like ASIC's obligation etc etc. Look what they're worth to us at present.

Do your own research (DYOR)

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

DoraNBoots said:

I think I've read in two different media articles that the fund will be listed on the ASX. I'm sure this was a mistake but it's a worry if some investers don't realise this is a mistake or assume the NSX is the same as the ASX.

I really don’t know what Jenny is expecting the fund to do over the 3 to 5 yr term. A lot of comments are being made here that I personally didn’t hear Jenny say in Brisbane. I know she may be refining her strategy as she goes but I find it very confusing to hear so many different opinions on what she is doing. It would be nice if WC could put something on the newpif web site clearly explaining the 3 to 5 yr strategy for the fund including the expected returns, expected capital and exit strategies. I realise these will be estimates but that’s better than nothing. Let me know if this info is already available somewhere.

I'm looking forward to feedback from the Newcastle meeting.

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Good morning DoraNBoots, In view of all the discussion regarding these issues on here over the past week, the investors attending today's meeting hopefully will ask for better clarification and share the answers received on this forum. Also JH has had time to digest feedback from investors and should have a much clearer picture of what is and is not acceptable to us.She will be aware that she doesn't have much time left to fully inform holders before the 75% vote will be called for in August. Should be an interesting week ahead I think. Regards, Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

great dame said:

JH is not telling us a thing If she gets the 75% we are all locked in And the only out is to sell give your units away then for nealey nothing if you want out She will have us all in the bag then /

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So what's your solution?

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

RickH said:

Interesting statement great dame,
I might be dumb but i am sure not stupit ////////
Any business person would want to increase their profits that means to grow the assets under management via responsible fund mangement. Please remember that if JH completely fails as the RE/Fund manager she may lose the respect and leadership qualities that she has worked so hard to achieve. Fund managers, financial planners and investors all want the same thing - that is good returns on invested capital.
Unfortunately there are some people who have no idea and maybe even invested more than 50% of their capital into one investment. I am concerned for my clients funds because there may be some very stupid people around who may scare other people into voting to liquidate the fund.
JH wants all investors to recover their capital within 3-5 years while receiving 6 cents per annum plus she would want to continue to grow PIF into one of the biggest and best managed funds in Australia.
To me that would be a perfect outcome.
Obviously there are no guarantees but 14 cents is not an option.
RickH.

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boy am i sure glad i am not one of your clients The poor things 6 cents a year Coming out of our capital VERY BAD How on earth can a fund grow when it is being bleed that way Sorry RichH you will have to do better then that to covince me //

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Duped said:

So what's your solution?

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Well i would like JH to come clean & be honest & tell us just wat the fund is realy worth I cant accept that 14 cents sounds like a scare tacket she wont open the books for all to see A Solution well the experts all say propley is going to sink down in the years to come So JH must be a swimer to swin against the tide

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

great dame said:

Well i would like JH to come clean & be honest & tell us just wat the fund is realy worth I cant accept that 14 cents sounds like a scare tacket she wont open the books for all to see A Solution well the experts all say propley is going to sink down in the years to come So JH must be a swimer to swin against the tide

Click to expand...

And how do we go about that?

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Duped said:

Of course WC should make profit out of the PIF. At the BNE forum, JH VOLUNTEERED (IMO to her enormous credit given the circumstances) that WC is "in the business of being in business".

See if you can get hold of a book called The Warren Buffet Way.
Almost every business has three groups it needs to keep happy. Clients, Shareholders and Staff. Their interests conflict. Who gets the spoils? That's the question. A well run business gets the balance right.

I don't have the 2006 voting papers on me but based on my recollection, WC is proposing to RESTORE the fee structure that was in place prior to the 2006 amendment to the constitution.
At a fund value of $413M, 0.07% would yield WC a revenue of around $2.89M. IMO: not unreasonable when a general admin staff costs around $40K, then there's rent, IT hardware+software+staff, accounts software & staff, payroll, payroll tax, WC's own auditors, insurance premium, electricity bills, all those Council & State govt levies etc etc etc. Compare this to the $16M MFSIM took in 06/07 ($7.7M in 05/06 , $4.8M in 04/05)

We should all be very careful with how we treat info from this forum. There are parties who will benefit from the PIF being liquidated. More particularly, from a weakened resolve. Particularly, OCV Ltd shareholders and rival creditors. Who's going to be motivated to chase the $147.5+$50M after PIF is liquidated.

Artic could possible also benefit from a collapse of PIF. My understanding is the $45M will be paid back in tranches and after measures are met. Who's going to be motivated to chase the debt when the PIF's being wrapped up. Last time I checked, the main beneficiary of Artic owns a few newspapers doesn't he. I'm not saying that the press is engaged in dodgy reporting. I'm just pointing out the potential for conflict of interest.

And before you throw 'it's their obligation to ... ' at me: what ... like MFS IM CEO Guy Hutchings' obligation (as stipulated in the PDS), like ASIC's obligation etc etc. Look what they're worth to us at present.

Do your own research (DYOR)

Click to expand...

People that i never have much trust in Estate agents Used car salesmen & people standing on stagers saying I WILL SAVE YOU ALL & MAKE YOU MONEY JUST BELIEVE IN ME I guess we will grab anything to save us if we are falling down a steep hill So far its been all talk & talk is cheap i realy want to see it all on paper in easy to read print And that means everything What little we have had so far on paper is very vage & not worth a thing /////////////

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Duped said:

And how do we go about that?

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Well for one thing i dont go round telling people that i am the saviour & will save you all I just want to be told the truth how you can bring the fund back to life After loosing $347.5Mill The average return from propley over the last 40 Years is about 12,5% so even if we all dont take any income from mhe fund it going to take a bloody long time to get that money back then if any of us are around then our money will not be worth much because of inflation Sad reading i know but must always be reliestic /////////

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

RickH said:

Interesting statement great dame,
I might be dumb but i am sure not stupit ////////
Any business person would want to increase their profits that means to grow the assets under management via responsible fund mangement. Please remember that if JH completely fails as the RE/Fund manager she may lose the respect and leadership qualities that she has worked so hard to achieve. Fund managers, financial planners and investors all want the same thing - that is good returns on invested capital.
Unfortunately there are some people who have no idea and maybe even invested more than 50% of their capital into one investment. I am concerned for my clients funds because there may be some very stupid people around who may scare other people into voting to liquidate the fund.
JH wants all investors to recover their capital within 3-5 years while receiving 6 cents per annum plus she would want to continue to grow PIF into one of the biggest and best managed funds in Australia.
To me that would be a perfect outcome.
Obviously there are no guarantees but 14 cents is not an option.
RickH.

Click to expand...

Now we all know that 14cent is wrong Closer to 30 cents is more like it RickH you know the old saying SOMETHING IS BETTER THEN NOTHING But if you wish to try your luck at nothing then go for it ////////

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

great dame said:

Well for one thing i dont go round telling people that i am the saviour & will save you all I just want to be told the truth how you can bring the fund back to life After loosing $347.5Mill The average return from propley over the last 40 Years is about 12,5% so even if we all dont take any income from mhe fund it going to take a bloody long time to get that money back then if any of us are around then our money will not be worth much because of inflation Sad reading i know but must always be reliestic /////////

Click to expand...

Yes great dame, very frustrating all round. The problem is at this point in time JH is our only option ( I know this has been said before)so we will have to hope she does live up to her past reputation. Saviours are thin on the ground at present and there will be many other fund managers in the same predicament as JH. She does have a past history of empire building in what was achieved with S8 so the woman has already demonstrated that she is no fool.I am sure we will get more information in due course, meanwhile we need to remain patient. No harm in being optimistic under the circumstances. Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

great dame said:

Now we all know that 14cent is wrong Closer to 30 cents is more like it RickH you know the old saying SOMETHING IS BETTER THEN NOTHING But if you wish to try your luck at nothing then go for it ////////

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Great Dame

Thank you for your numereous colourfull entries of your view of the world.

Are you a member of your local action group.

And if not / why not.

And if so, is your opinion generally the same as your local group.

Splitpin

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

great dame said:

Well i would like JH to come clean & be honest & tell us just wat the fund is realy worth I cant accept that 14 cents sounds like a scare tacket she wont open the books for all to see A Solution well the experts all say propley is going to sink down in the years to come So JH must be a swimer to swin against the tide

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Great Dame

Please do us all a favor and take your negativity else where. Things you haven't considered of digested from this forum
1. JH is going to provide us a more transparent breakdown of the funds loans and investments. From this we will get a better feel for it's state and potential to recover.
2. The fund will over time recover in part from realising true capital value (property prices are deflated at the moment). I would rather wait 3-5 years to realise $11 mill than take $1 mill through liquidation at the moment.
3. a 3 cent (most likely tax free) distribution by December is probably worth 4.25 cents before tax (8.5%)
4. Once RBOS is out of the picture (predicted end of August) the fund will in fact be making money. Lets say the fund is worth $430,000,000 and is conservatively returning 8% that equates to $34,400,000. (if JH takes 2.89 mill there is a little bit of change).
5. If we bail on the fund what is the likely recovery of the 147.5 Million and 50 Million owed by OCV - NOT VERY HIGH!!!!!. JH has already moved to make us an equal creditor of 5. She has predicted OCV is probably worth 400 mill in cash and assets. I for one would rather back JH and get 80 mill (1/5th of 400 mill) than $0.

I am big believer in the fat we can all have an opinion, but lets work with facts and stop going around in circles posting the same old negativity.

Yes things aren't ideal, but we are all in the same boat and the only way we can move forward is to back JH. She might not get to $1 in 5 years but I am backing she will go close - POSITIVITY!!!!!!!!!

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Seamisty is on the right track. Originally I wasn't convinced at all that WC was the best way to go. However, it's clear by now that JH is really putting her reputation on the line. You simply don't take on a heavy burden like this Fund's management unless you see a very good chance of success in the (fairly distant) future. There are always business cycles which she has underlined. Is it wise to sell property worth $11m for $1m? You'd have to be crazy to do so.

I agree that we need more detail, but really beggars can't be choosers. And in a few years we might even be thanking our lucky stars that she took us on. What is the alternative? Sell property at 90% below its value?

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

seamisty said:

Yes great dame, very frustrating all round. The problem is at this point in time JH is our only option ( I know this has been said before)so we will have to hope she does live up to her past reputation. Saviours are thin on the ground at present and there will be many other fund managers in the same predicament as JH. She does have a past history of empire building in what was achieved with S8 so the woman has already demonstrated that she is no fool.I am sure we will get more information in due course, meanwhile we need to remain patient. No harm in being optimistic under the circumstances. Seamisty

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The big trouble is There is no new money coming And a lot of investers will cut there lossers & exit the fud & get next to nothing Most of the investores have not got time They are eldery The growth years have gorn in propley So as good as you say JH has been in the past & remenber they were in the boon years i find it hard to see her do a repeat performance I am not pinning much hope on her Till i see her plans on paper ////////

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

goldfinger38 said:

Hi,

Update, I have passed on details of the Centrelink
Means Test Team - Seniors, Carers and Supplementary Payments Branch in Centrelink National Service Office in Canberra to WC in order to get the reduced unit price used for those pensioners suffering hardship beacuse of their continue assessment of their PIF units at $1. Upon speaking to a friendly FIS officer at Centrelink who is a firend of mine, he suggested that if an individual were to take in the Revised Balance Sheet Summary which now shows the Net Asset Backing of 0.45c that they may use this reduced price for that individaul if they wanted to get some relief sooner. Hopefully WC will get onto this ASAP in order to get it reduced for all pensioners.

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great dame said:

Now we all know that 14cent is wrong Closer to 30 cents is more like it RickH you know the old saying SOMETHING IS BETTER THEN NOTHING But if you wish to try your luck at nothing then go for it ////////

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Hi Great dame,
I do not disagree with everything that you say because many people make promises that they never intend to keep AND we do need to see what JH is planning.

I will refer to the 6 cents annual return with the potential to recover $1.00.

You have stated that you would accept 30 cents in the dollar.
Point 1) IF the already mentioned regular 6 cent annual payment is a possibility together with the value of units/shares growing to $1.00 within 3/5 (even 7 years).
Please consider - IF you accept 30 cents you will need to receive 20% per annum to equal the potential 6 cents regular annual return.

The better risk reward option may be to go with JH and receive the 6 cents per annum regular plus the goal to grow to $1.00 value.

After JH has completed her presentation and consider voting for JH to be the RE even if she does want to list on the NSX.
I am reasonably sure that there are many existing investors who will analyse the assets held within the PIF plus the potential legal claims and pay you your desired 30 cents or it may even be advantageous PIF to purchase your units at 30 cents and increase everyone elses chances of growing the NTA to $1.00 and above.
IF I was your financial planner I would recommend that you probably should not accept such a low return on your $1.00 invested and IF you have invested most of your funds into MFS I would recommend the loan strategy would be your better option.
PS: I really want to follow this fund and encourage the RE to grow the fund to $1.00 plus AND also to take all legal actions to claim against those responsible for the Nov/Dec loans/gifts to MFS. There may be time to make a stand and try to send these people to jail after we have collected as much money from them as possible.

OUR MAJOR PROBLEM IS THE 75% VOTE. WE CANNOT AFFORD TO LEAVE THE DOOR OPEN TO LIQUIDATION AND 14 CENTS EVEN 30 CENTS IS TOO LOW.

Everyone needs to pull together to achieve a suitable outcome. We have very limited time -
We should consider the following:

AT the start of the meeting have a vote
1) VOTE: (Needs 75% to not liquidate)
a) Not to liquidate PIF.
b) To liquidate PIF.


Vote should be - a) Not to liquidate PIF.

2) VOTE:
a) To elect JH as RE and fund manager at 0.7% fees per annum.
b) Vote for another RE.

Vote should be - a) To elect JH as RE and fund manager at 0.7% fees per annum.

Then we can consider the better options in detail without the need to liquidate PIF.

3) OPTIONS TO BE PRESENTED BY THE NEW RE - JH.
a) Benefits for the listing on the NSX.
b) Benefits for staying as an UN-listed fund.

This vote can then be deferred etc.

But it all depends - JE may only want to be the RE if PIF is NSX listed????
Regards,
RickH

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Yes I can confirm that Great Dame is a Registered member of the Brisbane Action group

He has been very badly affected both financially and emotionally as a result of the abuse of investors money in the fund as have many people

So i think he needs to be allowed to vent his frustrations

We need to remember that the Fund although heavilly exposed to the property sector does has some diversified income assets in cash and bonds that should at least stabilise the returns untill the property cycle recovers

Regards Chris

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

great dame said:

People that i never have much trust in Estate agents Used car salesmen & people standing on stagers saying I WILL SAVE YOU ALL & MAKE YOU MONEY JUST BELIEVE IN ME I guess we will grab anything to save us if we are falling down a steep hill So far its been all talk & talk is cheap i realy want to see it all on paper in easy to read print And that means everything What little we have had so far on paper is very vage & not worth a thing /////////////

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Agreed. But what's your plan for going about getting a better solution.

Can I add more to that list? Recruitment agents, Microsoft, leaders who have introduced us to concepts like 'core promises' and WMDs, clients of PIF that would benefit from a WC breach of contract by disclosing commercial-in-confidence provisions of their loan agreements etc etc.