Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[Javier]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Totally agree she really does have to take an aggresive step to bring ASIC into the picture and go after anything and anybody that will bring our rightful funds back as well as any compensation. Yes of course some things must take some priority, but ASIC involvement IS an order of priority if we have even the faintest chance of having the $170m in OCV bank frozen before the siphoning begins. Good point as other creditors would treat her recovery a lot more seriously.

Jenny, I ask you as I know your team reads this forum regularly, if it were your own money, and knowing how gifted you are in the finance world, wouldn't you go after the directors to get money back AND hopefully justice as a means of being served with a sense of relief that the people that have done you wrong are being dealt with, well then PLEASE extend that courtesy to us as well. Thank you.

 

[RickH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

disappointed in the comment that she will wait to see how things unfold, with respect to the former directors etc - if she wants to be really taken seriously by the business community she needs to show she is uncompromising when it comes to pursuing the thieves - if she took legal action against all the former directors and chairman of MFS / Octavier - she is 1 - sending a message to everyone - dont mess with me i will sort you out - 2 - i think her ability to negotiate better value from the assets is enhanced by this action.

I know she is busy selling her plan - but as i said yesterday - she needs to get the heavy lifting started and fire a couple of shots at the thieves - if she takes the lead - ASIC and APRA the car accident spectators will be forced to pull their fingers out and start kicking some heads.

Hi Deano1,
There is a time and place for everything. Now is not the time. But it must be considered in the near future.
Lets keep to main subject which is the structure and plan before we go into that area.
Regards,
RickH

 

[Jadel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Rick h

You have allready indicated that you are some sort of a financial advisor

Therefore i seriously doubt that your opinion is based as a investor in the fund

You have an agenda mate that is plain as DAY

2.5 % buy sell = 5% THAT IS ALSO EASY TO UNDERSTAND

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Lets put it in a different perspective.

OPI investors voted on a 3 year moratorium. Which is permitted under NZ law. Now, I'm going to assume that none of the investors can get their money out. So what's happened with OPI is the majority of the investors have locked into the fund, for 3 years, all those investors that just wanted to get out at any cost.

At the BNE forum JH specifically noted that Australian law doesn't have such a generous provision. In AU the limit is 360 days. Which for us presumably ends in March 09. (Who does this shorter period benefit? Unit holders? Establishment vultures perpetually hovering for distressed sales? I'm not decided.)

If we vote to go with WC, i.e. to continue the fund, AND there is a mechanism to sell (e.g. NSX, ASX, off market, inter holder) or slowly step out by return of capital within 2 1/2 years, then those who want out of PIF are still better off than if this happened under NZ law.

These are just my thoughts.

The other matter is the state of the portfolio. (Listed property trusts are reportedly down 45% and JH noted that 35c (equiv to 35%) of our loss is due to the drop in market sentiment). This is in part a result of the Reserve Bank's monetory policy. The RBA interest rate rises you hear about are DELIBERATE & DESIGNED TO CAUSE PAIN. (Take money away from spenders and give it to savers). Designed to put downward pressure on prices; on things like properties like the ones PIF is trying to sell. We're just caught up in the blunt instrument that is the RBA setting of interest rates.

Please correct me if I'm wrong?

 

[deano1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Deano1,
There is a time and place for everything. Now is not the time. But it must be considered in the near future.
Lets keep to main subject which is the structure and plan before we go into that area.
Regards,
RickH

Rick i understand there is a time and place for everything - but this shermozzle needs to be on the front page of every newspaper in the country what better way to get the people responsible for protecting the mum & dad investors in getting a photo of say Andrew Peacock being served - you dont reckon the regulators wouldn't want to be involved in that party - time is money and the longer it takes the more distance is put between these thieves and the money that is rightfully the investors - draw a line in the sand - god helps he who helps himself - whilst Jenny may not be able to finish the process - at least she is the only one with all the information at this point in time to get the process started - if she gets it started and gets the media hounds onto it - then you will emabrass the regulators into getting involved - Action is what is required and the sooner the action starts the closer you start to get to a 65c valuation than a 14c valuation - there has been criminal activity here and we need to stop dilly dallying and get a head kicker in there - i think Jenny is probably that person - but its got to start from somewhere - the unit holders own a dog - what we have got to do is point that dog in the right direction and start barking and biting - you watch the groundswell of support you will get once a start is made.

 

[RickH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Rick h

You have allready indicated that you are some sort of a financial advisor

Therefore i seriously doubt that your opinion is based as a investor in the fund

You have an agenda mate that is plain as DAY

2.5 % buy sell = 5% THAT IS ALSO EASY TO UNDERSTAND

Hi Jadel,
Yes. I am an adviser. We rebate commissions and charge a fee for service.
And yes we do have over 150 clients in this PIF but fortunately due our realistic strategies of spreading the risk the overall majority of these clients have only $10,000 to $20,000 invested.
The majority of our clients are invested into direct shares, Listed Managed Funds suchas AFI, Australian Foundation and ETFs.
You make too many observations that are not based on facts. You shoot from the hip and you have your eyes closed.
Do some research before you create havoc and scare investors away from a logical and realistic decision making process.
Kindest regards,
RickH
PS: I am in the process of trying to organise a discount buy/sell service...
Give it time to evolve.

 

[SPLITPIN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Splitpin,
SELL:
Hopefully, when WPIF is listed on the NSX a person could sell their units/shares on this exchange. The 2.5% brokerage is high but it would be a once off cost. People who need capital and own Commonwealth Bank Shares must sell them on the ASX and pay a smaller brokerage fee. But it is really the same situation.

Then further down the track we wishfully pray that the fund is listed on the ASX after becoming a great and successful listed managed fund with a base cost of say 0.7% and life will be back to normal.

ANOTHER CONSIDERATION FROM LEFT FIELD – UNITS/SHARES USED AS SECURITY FOR LOANS.
If the fund is truly valued at 14 cents then some investors may consider using their units/shares as the security for a loan and plan on the future valuation rising to 45 cents and more within two years.
This loan could be based on say 50% of the NTA.

Regards,
Rick.
PS: I still believe that we should follow JH if her presentation and planning sounds reasonable and list onto the NSX.

Rick

JH Indicated yesterday she choose NSX in liue of ASX because of cost etc.

Best Solution may be straight to ASX. May take more time and cost more, so what.

Comments, please as this would not change her vision plan.

 

[Robert McNaught]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Previously a 2 year investment in the PIF returned us 9% pa and now we are to receive 6c per unit (6% return on the original $1.00 unit value). OK, so it's dropped back but so has the distribution rate from many other managed funds. Access to our funds via redemption has also been interrupted for a few years but in my opinion we should count our lucky stars that Wellingto Capital has taken our fund on. Jenny Hutson is obviously aiming to build a reputation within financial circles as a manager who can act decisively and carefully resurrect a failing fund. There is nothing wrong with this...she is a business woman and has a long term career focus. To me, a return of 6c per unit per annum with fairly good prospects of a full capital return deserves a strong YES vote.

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Well, time is running out. Is there any sign of an AG committee being formed and a chairperson elected? We can chat away on this thread till the day of the EGM and just be swapping ideas amongst ourselves while thousands of other investors are left out of the loop.

Who is the AG rep. to speak on our behalf to WC? Is it still Breaker1?

My $100 contribution awaits a destination.

At present this is a blog without a moderator. It's been incredibly useful with clever people helping others to understand the complexities. But what is to be done next?

 

[goldfinger38]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi,

Just got message from my friend at Centrleink as per below,
He is recommending those investors that are pensioners who are NOT on full benefits or on any benefit because of the funds they hold in PIF , to notify Centrleink immediately of the reduction in the unit price value and to provide the Balance sheet particulars provided to PIF investors with the Net Asset Backing to prove the value at only 45c currently.

reply from Centrelink contact as follows:

MFS (now Octaviar) Premium Income Fund
MFS Ltd has frozen redemptions of its Premium Income Fund and ceased to pay distributions. MFS advises that this is a temporary measure aimed at protecting the assets of the fund.

Effective from 1 July 2008, the value of a customer's investment in the MFS Premium Income Fund should be re-assessed on their record at a value of 45 cents in the $1.00 per unit.

Deeming will continue to apply to this investment. A deeming exemption can not be granted at this point as the freezing of distributions and redemptions is continuing as a temporary measure.

MFS (now Octaviar) Ltd Shares
Shares in MFS/Octaviar Ltd have been suspended from trading on the Australian Stock Exchange (ASX). The last trading day was 18 January 2008.

Customers should continue to have their shares in MFS Ltd (ASX code MFS is now OCV) assessed at 99 cents per share.

Other MFS/Octaviar investments
There is no change to the assessment of other MFS/Octaviar investments.


Now we have no real way of knowing which of our customers have investments with MFS. We can only reassess their benefits when they bring their MFS investments to our attention.
Is it possible that you could inform those investors advising them of this change in their Centrelink assessment, and that they should contact Centrelink as soon as possible.?

 

[RickH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Rick

JH Indicated yesterday she choose NSX in liue of ASX because of cost etc.

Best Solution may be straight to ASX. May take more time and cost more, so what.

Comments, please as this would not change her vision plan.

Hi Splitpin,
Probably best left with JH.
Let her run the show if her plans are reasonable etc.
You know what it is like if some one is telling you how to drive when they are in the back seat of the car.
Regards,
Rick.

 

[Mary Lynch]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

There is a pressing need to get some structure in our group.

How about you make a time to have a congress on Skype with a max possible of our key people involved, and have a nomination process where by willing nominees get posted here. Then whoever wishes to vote for, say, President (and possible board member) and other members of a (probably) smallish committee, here can do so.

I suggest Breaker, Dora, Seamistry, Rocky etc as obvious choices, as well as several of the legal eagle and financiers people on board for that end of the line-up.

Let's do it, and soon.
How about you make it 8.30 tonight???!! Constructive action is what's needed from now on....cut the waffle!!!all it serves is (mostly) a questionable booting of (mainly) male egos!!

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Well, time is running out. Is there any sign of an AG committee being formed and a chairperson elected? We can chat away on this thread till the day of the EGM and just be swapping ideas amongst ourselves while thousands of other investors are left out of the loop.

Who is the AG rep. to speak on our behalf to WC? Is it still Breaker1?

My $100 contribution awaits a destination.

At present this is a blog without a moderator. It's been incredibly useful with clever people helping others to understand the complexities. But what is to be done next?

I agree Selciper, We appear to be running around in circles like a headless chook!!It is becoming quite obvious that the enormity of running the AG as a united body is becoming increasingly difficult. I agree with R.M's post 951, and it seem's there is strong support growing for JH. Javiar has already stated that the lawyer has gone away to digest information regarding the PIF. There is conflicting opinions in regard to the listing of the Fund on the NSX but I think JH will probablly take this on board and either offer an alternative or explain the for's and against the reasons for doing this or postpone the listing altogether until the PIF has stabilised. If it becomes an option further on the ASX would be a far better alternative even if it is more expensive. I think the AG need to compose a letter as a united group in regard to getting ASIC involved NOW!!!We have the facts, the letter needs to be endorsed by JH on behalf of investors and presented to the Fraud and Corporate Crime Group as well as ASIC. JH has already indicated she is willing to work with the AG. I don't see why we can't work together on resolving these issues at ground level as a TEAM. A bit of flexibility from both sides may be a far greater tool at this present time, with so many people involved we will never satisfy everyone but I am sure compromises can be worked out. Seamisty

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

There is a pressing need to get some structure in our group.

How about you make a time to have a congress on Skype with a max possible of our key people involved, and have a nomination process where by willing nominees get posted here. Then whoever wishes to vote for, say, President (and possible board member) and other members of a (probably) smallish committee, here can do so.

I suggest Breaker, Dora, Seamistry, Rocky etc as obvious choices, as well as several of the legal eagle and financiers people on board for that end of the line-up.

Let's do it, and soon.
How about you make it 8.30 tonight???!! Constructive action is what's needed from now on....cut the waffle!!!all it serves is (mostly) a questionable booting of (mainly) male egos!!

That sounds constructive Mary, I am willing to be involved. Seamisty

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Following is from another Forum. Can anyone confirm the facts? If true, will it effect CS' term as OCV's chairman?

"ANZ nets Octaviar chief's stake

The Spectators

Octaviar Ltd chief executive Chris Scott has been caught up in the collapse of Primebroker, resulting in Australia and New Zealand Banking Group seizing most of his holding in the stricken firm.

A significant portion of Mr Scott's 4.64 per cent stake in Octaviar, formerly MFS, is understood to have been placed in stock lending agreement with Primebroker, Herald Sun reports.

According to the report, Chimaera management failed to notify Mr Scott that his margin lending account had did not meet its loan-to-valuation requirements.

Last week ANZ placed Primebroker, a subsidiary of Chimaera Financial Group, into receivership. On Tuesday, ANZ revealed it had acquired control of 5.05 per cent of Octaviar, and significant stakes in nine other companies.

While said it will ANZ proceed with the sale of its newly-acquired stock, there may be some problem in moving Octaviar's scrip with the company presently suspended from the ASX.

Earlier this week, ANZ also gained control of 13.2 per cent of Bill Express after the payment company collapsed owing the bank $53 million.
ASX Stock Chart for ANZ ASX Stock Chart for BXP"

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Following is from another Forum. Can anyone confirm the facts? If true, will it effect CS' term as OCV's chairman?

"ANZ nets Octaviar chief's stake

The Spectators

Octaviar Ltd chief executive Chris Scott has been caught up in the collapse of Primebroker, resulting in Australia and New Zealand Banking Group seizing most of his holding in the stricken firm.

A significant portion of Mr Scott's 4.64 per cent stake in Octaviar, formerly MFS, is understood to have been placed in stock lending agreement with Primebroker, Herald Sun reports.

According to the report, Chimaera management failed to notify Mr Scott that his margin lending account had did not meet its loan-to-valuation requirements.

Last week ANZ placed Primebroker, a subsidiary of Chimaera Financial Group, into receivership. On Tuesday, ANZ revealed it had acquired control of 5.05 per cent of Octaviar, and significant stakes in nine other companies.

While said it will ANZ proceed with the sale of its newly-acquired stock, there may be some problem in moving Octaviar's scrip with the company presently suspended from the ASX.

Earlier this week, ANZ also gained control of 13.2 per cent of Bill Express after the payment company collapsed owing the bank $53 million.
ASX Stock Chart for ANZ ASX Stock Chart for BXP"

I think Paul Manka is the Independant Chairman, Chris Scott is an Executive Director. Seamisty

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I think Paul Manka is the Independant Chairman, Chris Scott is an Executive Director. Seamisty

Thanks Seamisty. My error. You're right.

 

[Jadel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dear Fellow Investors


Thank goodness we are finally getting started with a working Commitee

Excellent Choice Breaker ,Rocky , Seamisty, Dora,

I will second and third those nominations

 

[Mutchy]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

There is a pressing need to get some structure in our group.

How about you make a time to have a congress on Skype with a max possible of our key people involved, and have a nomination process where by willing nominees get posted here. Then whoever wishes to vote for, say, President (and possible board member) and other members of a (probably) smallish committee, here can do so.

I suggest Breaker, Dora, Seamistry, Rocky etc as obvious choices, as well as several of the legal eagle and financiers people on board for that end of the line-up.

Let's do it, and soon.
How about you make it 8.30 tonight???!! Constructive action is what's needed from now on....cut the waffle!!!all it serves is (mostly) a questionable booting of (mainly) male egos!!

I agree with Seamisty. We need to do something positive. I did have a short conversation with Javier and the solicitor on Wednesday at the Sydney meeting. It is apparently not that easy to formalise our organisation and I am reluctant to expand on the reasons because I may have not understood the reasons fully. The most appropriate body apparently is an incorporated entity. I would prefer it be explained in proper terms.

I think it's like a garden club or a BMX club which has statutory officers such as a Public Officer, President, Secretary, Treasurer and other seconded committee members, and be registered with Dept of Fair Trading. From my ten or so years of being most of these positions in an organisation it needs Officers Liability Insurance, Taxation Dept. exemption as a non profit organisation, GST exemption or at least annual assessment for GST, Annual meetings, formal election of officers, annual returns to Fair Trading, probably not a formal audit of the books but that may be voted upon by members.

Can you confirm please Javier?

 

[Javier]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Pretty much, it is very involved. It is not easy with all the red tape and of course with so many investors, you have to be accountable. We can have as many meetings as you want..but to do it in an incorporated and structural manner is a whole different kettle of fish. It's not as easy as sticking your $100 cheque in the envelope Selciper and away you go..not at all!