Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[Jadel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Splitpin,

Is Jenny seriously saying that there will be NO redemptions except through the NSX, at any time, over the next 5 years? Are we not to get part capital payments of our investments every 3 months as loaned monies comes back from developers and asset sales, until our investment is paid back at whatever cents in the $ our investment is eventually gauged to be worth?

Yes basically that is what is going to happen we will effectively be tied to NSX hook line and sinker buy the end of five years their will probably none of the original investors that even remember or care a damn what happens to this fund

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi,
I am starting to get very worried by what I am reading. Please be serious. There is possible a chance of getting all of our money back.
QUESTION - How on earth is the investment pool going to grow and recover over the next 3-5 years if capital payments are distributed above the announced 6 cents per annum.
Do you want a chance of getting $1.00 back plus 6 cents per annum or not?
Regards,
Rick

It is a matter of knowing exactly how Jenny plans to do all this. If we stay in the PIF, I do not want to access my investment via the NSX. IF not via the NSX, then exactly when do we get our investment lump sum via the PIF - in part payments starting soon or in a lump sum years down the track?

If the NSX is the ONLY redemption method, whole or in part, at any time, even years down the track - then the NSX listing MUST be blocked!

 

[goldfinger38]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi,
I am starting to get very worried by what I am reading. Please be serious. There is possible a chance of getting all of our money back.
QUESTION - How on earth is the investment pool going to grow and recover over the next 3-5 years if capital payments are distributed above the announced 6 cents per annum.
Do you want a chance of getting $1.00 back plus 6 cents per annum or not?
Regards,
Rick

Hi,

remember what Rocky1 stated in earlier post

We will receive in TOTAL a 3c "distribution" by Christmas. This "distribution" will be paid from capital. I couldn't quite understand exactly where the capital was coming from but when I asked this she kept mentioning "there are a lot of losses in the bottom line at the moment". Although the distributions will be from capital it will not reduce the number of units we hold. This type of distribution is likely to continue for some time. Distributions will be quarterly starting in 09. It is also likely that these distributions will be mostly non taxable (WC will provide us an explanation of how the distribution was funded to show to our accountants)


Therefore it may be called a capital payment but not coming from our investment capital, as the funds is currently running losses in its profit and loss statement not beneficial to pay a distribution which is taxable to investors, better to call it a return of capital and offset against losses to assist investors where able.

So she was supposedly still suggesting these quarterly payments to us plus a possible special distribution before June 2009 and also returning unit value to $1 in 3-5 years time if that is possible

 

[RickH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It is a matter of knowing exactly how Jenny plans to do all this. If we stay in the PIF, I do not want to access my investment via the NSX. IF not via the NSX, then exactly when do we get our investment lump sum via the PIF - in part payments starting soon or in a lump sum years down the track?

Obviously many investors are not interested in even considering Wellington's propsal and will be happy to receive probably about 50 cents in the dollar.
If 26% of investors feel similar to yourself. No one can help and everyone has to accept 14 to 50 cents in the dollar. Not happy. I really feel sorry for those investors who placed more than 50% of their investments into this fund. Fortunately my clients limit their investments to a portfolio of investments.
Please re-consider your goals and expectations.
Regards,
Rick.

 

[Jadel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dear Fellow Action group Members .

Now is the time to seriously consider forming a committee to represent the group

The committee could be comprised of existing acting area group coordinators or some bright ,dedicated and commited Action group members to act on our behalf investors to negotiate a binding agreement with Jenny Hutson before the vote in August.

I would only be prepared to go on the committee under duress, I have the second and third qualities but Alzheimers and Shiraz Cabernet are rapidly dimishing the first .

As you all know from reading my posts I am totally opposed to to listing on the NSX

I outlined to Jenny Hutson vigorously at the Brisbane meeting the reasons for my opposition to the proposal ,

Sentiment and liquidity are the primary drivers of price regardless of the net tangible asset value of stock . At this time m world markets at their rock bottom in this regard

The decision then then to place us in a market , which is practically unknown and has the movement of a one hunded year old year old tortoise is ill conceived and fraught with danger .

I have nothing against Jenny Hutson personally ,she is a very successful and intelligent businesswomen therefore I believe she will be able to evaluate the merits and benefits of the proposal For keeping the fund as a unified group of original investors

1/ Firstly no listing costs on the and associated unit conversion costs to the NSX

2/ the minimum fee for a NSX trade is 2.5% Wellington capital could easily reduce this fee to 0.5 % or less and make an internal profit on the transaction

3/ This would have the ability to stabilize the price as the yield would effectively increase to 8 % per annum for the first year and become more attractive as hopefully the dividends improve...

4/ Markets especially small illiquid markets can easily be manipulated by trading activity designed to cause panic.

5/ Transparency the certainty that the fund will not be sold out by new Vulture accumulators at a later date

6/ Investors understand that they are totally commited to a long term capital growth project..







As investors we must insist that we have an Action Group member on the Board with a vested interst in the company future so we can never deceived and exploited again.

I would be happy to see Javier or Sea misty elected to this position anybody with a successful business background

We have over one hunded original members in the Action Grooup and can call a motion for an EGM at any time this would make things extremely difficult for Wellington Capital however this power would rapidly diminish after August when the liquidation vote and I assume subsequent NSX listing will take place.


The time element is therefore a CRITICAL FACTOR particularly if new buyers enter the fund who have no allegiance to our cause


Now some people are going to question my motives but I can assure you I will not be buying more units ar this time . I have a twenty three year old daudgterv studying at university that I can not marry off to anybody at any price and she eats like a horse,.

I am an average investor with no hidden agenda other to get the best possible return out of this disaster for myself and other fund members

Regards Chris

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Jadel,

I've read your post twice now. I think you are saying you don't want the fund listed on the NSX. : If so, do you have an option for people that NEED to get out of this fund before the 3 to 5 year period WC are proposing?

 

[RickH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi,

remember what Rocky1 stated in earlier post

We will receive in TOTAL a 3c "distribution" by Christmas. This "distribution" will be paid from capital. I couldn't quite understand exactly where the capital was coming from but when I asked this she kept mentioning "there are a lot of losses in the bottom line at the moment". Although the distributions will be from capital it will not reduce the number of units we hold. This type of distribution is likely to continue for some time. Distributions will be quarterly starting in 09. It is also likely that these distributions will be mostly non taxable (WC will provide us an explanation of how the distribution was funded to show to our accountants)


Therefore it may be called a capital payment but not coming from our investment capital, as the funds is currently running losses in its profit and loss statement not beneficial to pay a distribution whis is taxable to investors, better to call it a return of capital and offset against losses to assist investors where able.

So she was supposedly still suggesting these quarterly payments to us plus a possible special distribution before June 2009 and also returning unit value to $1 in 3-5 years time if that is possible

Hi goldfinger38,
JH is very well qualified. Already managers funds and at this point in time We need to believe that she is telling the truth. Please remember that she is a solicitor and realises that whatever she says could create litigation down the track. In my opinion she is a female who is trying to achieve her best and maybe even prove that she is a leader in her field and wants to prove that she knows what she is doing. Probably everything that she has already achieved is on the line. At this point in time until I hear her true fund strategy I believe that we should assume that at this point in time she is telling the truth.
Regards,
Rick.
PS: She was captain and dux of her High School etc................
Sounds pretty good to me.
PPS: A good question would be - Would you take your friend to court if you believed that he was involved in the potentially illegal Nov/Dec loan transfer etc.

 

[SPLITPIN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Splitpin,

Is Jenny seriously saying that there will be NO redemptions except through the NSX, at any time, over the next 5 years? Are we not to get part capital payments of our investments every 3 months as loaned monies comes back from developers and asset sales, until our investment is paid back at whatever cents in the $ our investment is eventually gauged to be worth?

This is only my assumption after JH stated several times the redemption system was to go.

JH indicated a vision of NSX then maybe to ASX.

If the fund is to go on indefinately (as per JH vision) with no remption scheme in place, how does an investor withdraw in time from the scheme.

A good question for the next forum.

The 3 cents are distributions and JH stated could be capital or earnings or combination and she would clarify further.

 

[RickH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It is a matter of knowing exactly how Jenny plans to do all this. If we stay in the PIF, I do not want to access my investment via the NSX. IF not via the NSX, then exactly when do we get our investment lump sum via the PIF - in part payments starting soon or in a lump sum years down the track?

If the NSX is the ONLY redemption method, whole or in part, at any time, even years down the track - then the NSX listing MUST be blocked!

Hi breaker1,
Obviously you are allowed to have your opinion and that is life.
Unfortunately you have made a decision that is going impact on every one elses return of capital.
AND YOU HAVE MADE YOUR MIND UP EVEN BEFORE ALL OF THE INFORMATION HAS BEEN PROVIDED.
Please re-consider.
Regards
Rick.
PS: I recommend that you should speak with a fee for service adviser. It appears to me that you may be letting your emotions control your decision making processes before considering the total facts.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi goldfinger38,
JH is very well qualified. Already managers funds and at this point in time We need to believe that she is telling the truth. Please remember that she is a solicitor and realises that whatever she says could create litigation down the track. In my opinion she is a female who is trying to achieve her best and maybe even prove that she is a leader in her field and wants to prove that she knows what she is doing. Probably everything that she has already achieved is on the line. At this point in time until I hear her true fund strategy I believe that we should assume that at this point in time she is telling the truth.
Regards,
Rick.
PS: She was captain and dux of her High School etc................
Sounds pretty good to me.
PPS: A good question would be - Would you take your friend to court if you believed that he was involved in the potentially illegal Nov/Dec loan transfer etc.

Rick, Chris Scott was in no way involved with the running of the PIF when the funds were misapropriated. He has only been on the scene since mid March and the damage was already done.Jenny Hutson would not be working in the best interests of the PIF if she did not get in the queue along with other creditors. Seamisty

 

[RickH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Rick, Chris Scott was in no way involved with the running of the PIF when the funds were misapropriated. He has only been on the scene since mid March and the damage was already done.Jenny Hutson would not be working in the best interests of the PIF if she did not get in the queue along with other creditors. Seamisty

Hi seamisty,
Thank you.
Then we can assume that she will take legal action if there was problem with this loan transfer and there may be a chance of receiving extra capital.
Regards,
Rick.

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi goldfinger38,
JH is very well qualified..... :

Blah Blah - If i have to go through the NSX it's not worth a pinch of ****!

Hi,


So she was supposedly still suggesting these quarterly payments to us plus a possible special distribution before June 2009 and also returning unit value to $1 in 3-5 years time if that is possible

Whats the good of we investors getting piddling payments over 5 years, with inflation eating away our monies, if the only way we can redeem our lump sum investment, whether 45c/65c or even the magical $1, is via the NSX, only to find 6 months down the track that an NSX redemption is ONLY worth 5c-15c a unit.

Surely the feedback from the Gold Coast about this must be an error. Jenny told me that we would see distributions and our own invested capital returned (in part), hopefully quarterly, over 3-5 years, as returned PIF monies came in and that it would partially follow the DOH model, which is exactly that, part investor capital paid back, quarterly, as monies are received by the DOH fund. If not, I must have heard her wrong, but I did verify it with her - unless Jenny misunderstood me. At the time, she did not state or know what our unit value was as we spoke.

 

[goldfinger38]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Rick H,

I was only trying to clarify for others that the payment we hope to receive from October and beyond may be noted in paperwork as a capital return ( for the purposes of minimising tax on earnings and may also benefit the fund moving forward based on accounting principles) but it will stillmost likely still be from the earnings created within the fund.

She cannot be expected to payout a physical capital repayment from the sale of assets that at present may not be able to besold in this current economic climate as the property market in general is being "slaughtered" with investors seeing the value of good quality listed funds such as GPT and others reduced by 45% or more. Especially if she is suggesting she hopes to grow our current unit value over time back to the $1.

Just trying to provide some explanation of terms for those that dont fully understand, remember there is still a number of meetings to yet be held and then we will get more detailed information on all questions and answers from these meetings and then we may also hopefully get the other detailed information we requested about the actual assets of the fund and so forth. then we can make a more informed decision. including this proposed NSX listing, how it may impact on those in the fund and what it may provide to those wanting to exit the fund now or later.

 

[goldfinger38]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Blah Blah - If i have to go through the NSX it's not worth a pinch of ****!



Whats the good of we investors getting piddling payments over 5 years, with inflation eating away our monies, if the only way we can redeem our lump sum investment, whether 45c/65c or even the magical $1, is via the NSX, only to find 6 months down the track that an NSX redemption is ONLY worth 5c-15c a unit.

Surely the feedback from the Gold Coast about this must be an error. Jenny told me that we would see distributions and our own invested capital returned (in part), hopefully quarterly, over 3-5 years, as returned PIF monies came in and that it would partially follow the DOH model, which is exactly that, part investor capital paid back, quarterly, as monies are received by the DOH fund. If not, I must have heard her wrong, but I did verify it with her - unless Jenny misunderstood me. At the time, she did not state or know what our unit value was as we spoke.

I am now going to have to go through these utube links to see what she did actually say as I cannot remember exactly either , hopefully it may clarify as I thought she said she was going to attempt to grow out unit value back to $1, therefore not sure how that would be possible if actual assets are sold and then paid down to investors if any proceeds are received from sale.

 

[Jadel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dora
My second post specifically addresses the need for an action group committee to be formed immediately

My apologies for the rehash

My wife keeps telling me to get of the computer so we can go to indoor bowls

And am a bit flustered at the moment

So this is going to have to be quick

We have all seen what panic can do to a stock price

That is partly why we are in this predicament with OCV price being annihilated

I not know just how much panic their will be to exit at any cost when we list on the NSX

However I am certain it will result NSX in an immediate capital loss of at least 50% or more. For many years

Their has to be a better way

Regards Chris

 

[SPLITPIN]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

You guys up on the GC should have pushed the point and got a show of hands like MEL and more so SYD..N/C and PortM guys..get the NSX hands please!

Please note these are forums, not members meetings and most GC people would not be drawn on that one, even if it was put forward.

From Coffs Harbour to Mid QLD, JH is probably the most highly respected country girl "made good" in the area.

From my observations of the GC members today I would estimate she would have at least a 75 to 85 % approval rating.

Please do not take this as a position of mine, only as observations.

 

[goldfinger38]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Rick, Chris Scott was in no way involved with the running of the PIF when the funds were misapropriated. He has only been on the scene since mid March and the damage was already done.Jenny Hutson would not be working in the best interests of the PIF if she did not get in the queue along with other creditors. Seamisty

Good point Seamisty, some of us think that because of the links between Jenny Hutson and Chris Scott with their previous dealings that there may be not enough independance to allow her to chase the $, but yes, Chris was NOT on the board when all the bad things happened. He got onto the board with her help to try and rescue the company in an attempt to salvage some value out of his shares he held. A significant amount I believe. In any case he is not the "bad egg" in the hen house.

So WC may (??) be able to act according to our bests interests in recovering as much value as possible. Will have to wait and see what information they provide us with and what their actual proposal is, In any case we as an action group do still have the power to call an EGM of things arent being done for our best interests and appoint a new RE.

We are a long way from this point at the moment.

 

[kogo]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi. I have just registered as I went to the Melb meeting and have been following some of the posts over the last couple of days.
Couple of quick observations.
1. This fund was pretty much dead prior to WC/JH showing up. Nobody on the planet is going to take on this kind of risk without some reward and business is business so I say all the power to her if.
2. I'm not totally clear on the NSX issue however basically if my orginal sum is what my distribution is based on quarterly and people have an opportunity to access there funds more quickly (hardship etc) without a run on the fund and then freezing everything I say why not. I say this without a lot of knowledge however and hopefully all will be somewhat laid out prior to an Aug vote. I should state that I'm a long term investor on this thing. I pretty much wrote off my amount a few months ago so anything they do is great by me. I certainly won't add to my position though.
3. There is a lot of speculation on these posts which I don't think helps too much however under the circumstances people do need to vent somehow I guess. I beleive WC is to issue a syllabus of sorts outlining all questions/answers in about 2 weeks. Can we not wait until this come's out before worrying about a 2.5 % commision rate on the NSX or accessing loan agreements etc. Once they have outlined there position in writing we should have a slightly clearer view I believe and therefore can assess our positions based on their answers to all our questions.

Lastly I have to say that JH probably didn't need to put her name on this thing but has and in my books that has to count for something. The other parts of her organization seem to be doing okay so adding this thing certainly would be something I would jump at so I say give her a chance to show us. There certainly needs to be a good line of communication between investors and managers but someone on the board, I don't see it. The AG is a great thing and the communication line needs to be with the AG but a single person on the board. Sorry I don't see the point. Probably my knowledge base I guess

Cheers

 

[Ivor Watt]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

some notes from Gold Coast meeting
Tax dept claim does not take precedence, unsecured like the others.
Distributions/payments out of combined capital/income, split not known at moment. same for WC fees.
3c total payment by end Dec. one October, one end of year, value of each not confirmed at moment.
WC will follow up all avenues of income including PI and Lyoyds insurance
There will be a full statement of fund status prior to August meeting which will show all developments and position of each plus all outgoings, completed and expected and all incomings likewise. An undertaking to fully explain drop in value from carry value to realisable value in each of the asset classes shown on handout.
I understand that regarding LLA & Arctic that the fund receives 10m cash, 30m sharesLLA and the rest written off, seems this is the best outcome available from Packer, this is my understanding of her reply I stand to be corrected.
Center link valuation purposes 45c NAV confirmed.
No decision on NSX until meeting in August determines future direction of fund, ie liquidation or continuation.
Open to AG member on board.
Will consider buy/sell within the fund as alternative to NSX.
Mentioned further lump sum payments down the track as payment of capital as money came into the fund while simultaneously working to grow unit value.
WC fees will be based on 45c valuation.
lots more but lost it on this post, will top up on another post

 

[zixo]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi,

It’ keeps it interesting reading different contributors opinions on the NSX vs NON NSX.

I still am of the opinion that people who do want to sell will automatically lose money the moment they wish to sell their units on the NSX. So I am against listing it and am uncomfortable if I have no other options and no choices.

Things to consider are.

Some Investors may be in financial crisis and in need of their funds immediately - Possibly losing money
Some may just have had enough of the Premium income fund and wish to cut their losses - Possibly losing money
All redemptions withdrawn from the fund will impact the remaining investors - possibly losing money
JH can give no guarantees that the $ value will be restored and as most people are aware assurances come cheap.

The comment which was said by JH at the Sydney Forum was that further down the track the NSX listing of PIF units “may” be discontinued so units “may” be sold in other forms. It was a topic which was not elaborated on yet the NSX subject was hammered home continually by many investors.

It still remains a vague subject and I think it’s become a matter of priority to have the pros and cons clarified