Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Thanks also from me.
There's no way I would put any more money into PIF when the local Building society is offering 8.2% for a 90 day deposit!
Mutchy
Thanks also from me.
There's no way I would put any more money into PIF when the local Building society is offering 8.2% for a 90 day deposit!
Mutchy
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
investors like us, each with a stake $500K+. Ouch. They only make up 80M or10% of the fund so their future is in our hands. MFS Wholesale PIF is not really a related party. It is just a group of Treat your vote with respect. ::::: Mutchy,Some individual investors in the PIF were/are classed as wholesale investors and deserve the same treatment/respect as all holders in the fund. My husband and I are classified as wholesale investors and we are no different from any other investor. Regards, Seamisty
investors like us, each with a stake $500K+. Ouch. They only make up 80M or10% of the fund so their future is in our hands. MFS Wholesale PIF is not really a related party. It is just a group of Treat your vote with respect. ::::: Mutchy,Some individual investors in the PIF were/are classed as wholesale investors and deserve the same treatment/respect as all holders in the fund. My husband and I are classified as wholesale investors and we are no different from any other investor. Regards, Seamisty
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hi Seamisty. Sorry if any offence was given: none was intended. Hope you found nothing else worthy of comment. I try to summarise the postings so that I can remember what was said, sort the facts from the comment and avoid any duplication.
Any correction or comment I will welcome.
Mutchy
Hi Seamisty. Sorry if any offence was given: none was intended. Hope you found nothing else worthy of comment. I try to summarise the postings so that I can remember what was said, sort the facts from the comment and avoid any duplication.
Any correction or comment I will welcome.
Mutchy
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
No mutchy, thought your summary was very comprehensive, most people wouldn't know that wholesale doesn't specifically relate to institutional investors. I value your imput, you have spent a lot of time collating your information. Forums like these are for the benefit of all. Seamisty
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hi all, update from yesterdays meeting in Melbourne for your perusdal plus a PIF HOTLINE PHONE NUMBER 1300 854 855
Wellington Capital still on track to payout RBOS by end of month.
The senior debt facility of $200 million was drawn down in the months of November and December 2007 and was used to purchase loans and/or investment into MFS related companies as per below:
MFS Living & Leisure Group $57,489mil
MFS Pacific Finance Ltd $23.586mil
MFS Causeway Private Debt Opportunities Fund $23.180mil
Plus also purchase of equity related MFS companies
MFS Living & Leisure Group $5.906mil
MFS Diversified Group $34.469mil
MFS Blue Sky Development Trust $2.265mil
MFS Property Trust No 7 $1.056mil
MFS Maximum Yield Fund $85mil
Total Exposure of the PIF to Octaviar/MFS $232,951,000 AS AT THE 31ST December 2007.
There are currently 37 loan in the portfolio with longest dated loan being August 2009.
Distributions to recommence in October 2008, will be paid on a quarterly basis and expect to pay 3c for every $1 unit by end of year equivalent to annualised return of 6%.
Hope to continue paying at that rate moving forward. Also hope to pay a special distribution of an additional amount before June 2009.
Special meeting to be held in August to vote on keeping fund going or wind up.
Correspondence going out to investors with voting papers to allow proxy or attend meeting in person.
Wellington Capital to now pursue MFS/Octaviar for a further $147.5 million bringing total of monies owed to $197.5 million.
PIF will rank equally with all other creditors of Octaviar, there are 5 major creditors including PIF.
Current assets estimated at $400 million including cash, owe $1 billion therefore creditors may receive up to maximum of say 40c in $ therefore of the $197 being pursued PIF may receive up to $80 million of what is owed ( best case).
Wellington Capital will be charging management fees of 0.7% p.a. compared to 2.3% that MFS were previously charging.
10,345 investors in the PIF with avarage balance of $70,000
Living & Leisure Trust loan of $63 million. Expect to recover $45 million through James Packer recapitalisation deal so still taking an $18 million loss. Will wait to get more detailed information on this as it appears as though PIF may benefit from the $35 million being left in the LLA as part of the recapitalisation deal so will find out more information on this and report back.
One of other assets in fund such as Sheraton Mirage has been for sale for the entire year, PIF are third ranking creditor behind other banks and if sale went through at moment, PIF would not receive anything from sale, therefore may not be wise to sell at moment. Exposure to this is $47.5 million.
There are other properties similar to this where it is not in best interest of unitholders to sell properties. Other properties under construction will be completed with assistance from WC management to allow orderly sale and return of full value of loans outstanding on these properties.
WC have called on the mortgage insurers Lloyds on the loans that they can claim losses on and are in discussion witn them as to payment of monies.
Wellington Capital plan to provide more detailed information on the makeup of the fund now and its exposure to loans and assets.
I am in process of speaking to heads of Centrelink to get the unit price of the PIF units lowered to current Net asset Value of 45cents, this will assist unitholders who are currently not on full pension as the asset value will reduce and a corresponding increase in pension may be paid to those eligible. I will then forward to Jenny Hutson to speak with them directly.
Listing our units on the NSX will not increase risk in fund, value of the units is the Net Asset Value which is currently 45 cents. The listing will make the PIF one of the top 3 funds to be listed on the exchange and may give greater attention to the brokers using the exchange for trading of the fund which may allow some investors to get some of their funds out more quickly than the current planned payments.
WC plan to release audited accounts to validate this amount as at the 30th June ASAP once signed off by Price Waterhouse Coopers.
Hi all, update from yesterdays meeting in Melbourne for your perusdal plus a PIF HOTLINE PHONE NUMBER 1300 854 855
Wellington Capital still on track to payout RBOS by end of month.
The senior debt facility of $200 million was drawn down in the months of November and December 2007 and was used to purchase loans and/or investment into MFS related companies as per below:
MFS Living & Leisure Group $57,489mil
MFS Pacific Finance Ltd $23.586mil
MFS Causeway Private Debt Opportunities Fund $23.180mil
Plus also purchase of equity related MFS companies
MFS Living & Leisure Group $5.906mil
MFS Diversified Group $34.469mil
MFS Blue Sky Development Trust $2.265mil
MFS Property Trust No 7 $1.056mil
MFS Maximum Yield Fund $85mil
Total Exposure of the PIF to Octaviar/MFS $232,951,000 AS AT THE 31ST December 2007.
There are currently 37 loan in the portfolio with longest dated loan being August 2009.
Distributions to recommence in October 2008, will be paid on a quarterly basis and expect to pay 3c for every $1 unit by end of year equivalent to annualised return of 6%.
Hope to continue paying at that rate moving forward. Also hope to pay a special distribution of an additional amount before June 2009.
Special meeting to be held in August to vote on keeping fund going or wind up.
Correspondence going out to investors with voting papers to allow proxy or attend meeting in person.
Wellington Capital to now pursue MFS/Octaviar for a further $147.5 million bringing total of monies owed to $197.5 million.
PIF will rank equally with all other creditors of Octaviar, there are 5 major creditors including PIF.
Current assets estimated at $400 million including cash, owe $1 billion therefore creditors may receive up to maximum of say 40c in $ therefore of the $197 being pursued PIF may receive up to $80 million of what is owed ( best case).
Wellington Capital will be charging management fees of 0.7% p.a. compared to 2.3% that MFS were previously charging.
10,345 investors in the PIF with avarage balance of $70,000
Living & Leisure Trust loan of $63 million. Expect to recover $45 million through James Packer recapitalisation deal so still taking an $18 million loss. Will wait to get more detailed information on this as it appears as though PIF may benefit from the $35 million being left in the LLA as part of the recapitalisation deal so will find out more information on this and report back.
One of other assets in fund such as Sheraton Mirage has been for sale for the entire year, PIF are third ranking creditor behind other banks and if sale went through at moment, PIF would not receive anything from sale, therefore may not be wise to sell at moment. Exposure to this is $47.5 million.
There are other properties similar to this where it is not in best interest of unitholders to sell properties. Other properties under construction will be completed with assistance from WC management to allow orderly sale and return of full value of loans outstanding on these properties.
WC have called on the mortgage insurers Lloyds on the loans that they can claim losses on and are in discussion witn them as to payment of monies.
Wellington Capital plan to provide more detailed information on the makeup of the fund now and its exposure to loans and assets.
I am in process of speaking to heads of Centrelink to get the unit price of the PIF units lowered to current Net asset Value of 45cents, this will assist unitholders who are currently not on full pension as the asset value will reduce and a corresponding increase in pension may be paid to those eligible. I will then forward to Jenny Hutson to speak with them directly.
Listing our units on the NSX will not increase risk in fund, value of the units is the Net Asset Value which is currently 45 cents. The listing will make the PIF one of the top 3 funds to be listed on the exchange and may give greater attention to the brokers using the exchange for trading of the fund which may allow some investors to get some of their funds out more quickly than the current planned payments.
WC plan to release audited accounts to validate this amount as at the 30th June ASAP once signed off by Price Waterhouse Coopers.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hi Jadel nice to see that we havent all gone raving mad and still have a sense of humour cheers flatback
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
HI mutchy an extremely good summary and questions report very enlightening, informative. cheers Flatback
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hi All,
I received this question via email and want you to check my answer...
Question: you know how Jenny is promising 3% by Xmas, would that be a payment of 3% per annum on our whole investment, or 3% for a quarter of the year. If we are to claim 6% on our tax return, then it must be 3+3 per annum. This will be a very big pay out.
Answer: We will initially be getting a 3 cent per unit return. This is not a 3% return as our units are no longer $1 units. So if you have 10,000 units in the fund you would get back $300 (0.03 * 10,000= $300) . If our units are now valued at 45 cents, then 3 cents is a 6.6% return.
This will all be capital so I assume our units will then be worth 42 cents?
Hi All,
I received this question via email and want you to check my answer...
Question: you know how Jenny is promising 3% by Xmas, would that be a payment of 3% per annum on our whole investment, or 3% for a quarter of the year. If we are to claim 6% on our tax return, then it must be 3+3 per annum. This will be a very big pay out.
Answer: We will initially be getting a 3 cent per unit return. This is not a 3% return as our units are no longer $1 units. So if you have 10,000 units in the fund you would get back $300 (0.03 * 10,000= $300) . If our units are now valued at 45 cents, then 3 cents is a 6.6% return.
This will all be capital so I assume our units will then be worth 42 cents?
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Dora
Yes you are correct in terms JH is so far talking cents and not % - it doens't really matter what the unit price is.
People need to not get so caught up on this distribution issue. Remember this 3cents is effectively for July to December 2008, a lot could change from Jan to Jun of 2009 in terms of distributions??
The final break up for tax purposes will be made available to people in an annul tax statement (as it always was in the past). Tax will be an interesting issue for the Fund going forward with losses on investments, assume interest on RBOS loan being dedcutible - gets a bit complicated so people shouldn't get hung up on it.
As I said, it is some money $ now so it may prevent someone being able to hang in for a bit longer and not have to sell on the NSX.
I'd would say the value of the units will alter on a monthly basis over the coming years.
Cheers
Dora
Yes you are correct in terms JH is so far talking cents and not % - it doens't really matter what the unit price is.
People need to not get so caught up on this distribution issue. Remember this 3cents is effectively for July to December 2008, a lot could change from Jan to Jun of 2009 in terms of distributions??
The final break up for tax purposes will be made available to people in an annul tax statement (as it always was in the past). Tax will be an interesting issue for the Fund going forward with losses on investments, assume interest on RBOS loan being dedcutible - gets a bit complicated so people shouldn't get hung up on it.
As I said, it is some money $ now so it may prevent someone being able to hang in for a bit longer and not have to sell on the NSX.
I'd would say the value of the units will alter on a monthly basis over the coming years.
Cheers
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Thanks Iamspeed,
I think the obsession with the distribution might just be that people want to work out how much money they will have in their pockets.
Thanks Iamspeed,
I think the obsession with the distribution might just be that people want to work out how much money they will have in their pockets.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hi all, The Wellington Premium Income Fund site www.newpif.com.au has all the latest media articles posted on it for those who have not seen them. Regards, Seamisty
Hi all, The Wellington Premium Income Fund site www.newpif.com.au has all the latest media articles posted on it for those who have not seen them. Regards, Seamisty
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
I think that I can clear up the continuing misunderstanding about the capital verses interest line.
First some history - Price Waterhouse Coopers did the audit of the fund for WIM. PWC is also the receiver for the Donovan Oats Hanaford Mortgage Fund in Port Macquarie. It is not surprising then that JH is following exactly the path that PWC has mapped out for the DOHMC windup.
As part of that process a meeting of investors was called and an Action Group formed to respond to a report prepared by PWC regarding the windup. At that meeting the AG Chairperson Bob Todd made a number of proposals submitted by AG members to be put to PWC. As part of the wind up strategy investors had started to be paid 12 months of interest distributions that remained in the fund ( I think that DOHMC Managing Director Peter Hannaford wanted investors to have at least a year to plan their financial future as only quarterly CAPITAL payments would be made after the interest payments ran out.)
The DOHMC AG argued that as there was in excess of a 30% loss of capital it was counter productive for PWC to make the interest payments which would count as taxable income, when they should be treated as making up part of the lost capital. Therefore it should be paid as capital redemptions that would not be taxed, thereby giving a bit more value back to investors who have lost so much.
This is why JH has been a bit elusive on this question at the forums ( making only comments that there are "losses in the bottom line"). She is not in a position to state this directly as the ATO might not be too happy with such an approach.
It would be a good idea for our AG to liaise with the DOHNC AG as they are further down the track than we are and may be able to help with info etc.
PS I am originally from Port Macquarie and know the people involved.
I think that I can clear up the continuing misunderstanding about the capital verses interest line.
First some history - Price Waterhouse Coopers did the audit of the fund for WIM. PWC is also the receiver for the Donovan Oats Hanaford Mortgage Fund in Port Macquarie. It is not surprising then that JH is following exactly the path that PWC has mapped out for the DOHMC windup.
As part of that process a meeting of investors was called and an Action Group formed to respond to a report prepared by PWC regarding the windup. At that meeting the AG Chairperson Bob Todd made a number of proposals submitted by AG members to be put to PWC. As part of the wind up strategy investors had started to be paid 12 months of interest distributions that remained in the fund ( I think that DOHMC Managing Director Peter Hannaford wanted investors to have at least a year to plan their financial future as only quarterly CAPITAL payments would be made after the interest payments ran out.)
The DOHMC AG argued that as there was in excess of a 30% loss of capital it was counter productive for PWC to make the interest payments which would count as taxable income, when they should be treated as making up part of the lost capital. Therefore it should be paid as capital redemptions that would not be taxed, thereby giving a bit more value back to investors who have lost so much.
This is why JH has been a bit elusive on this question at the forums ( making only comments that there are "losses in the bottom line"). She is not in a position to state this directly as the ATO might not be too happy with such an approach.
It would be a good idea for our AG to liaise with the DOHNC AG as they are further down the track than we are and may be able to help with info etc.
PS I am originally from Port Macquarie and know the people involved.
Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Hi all,
The sydney Forum meeting went well. I'd like to thank all those who helped distribute flyers. Many people were very interested in gathering more information and were also interested if we could as a combined group make a complaint to ASIC.
Many of the questions were repeats of what was asked at previous meetings.
One question which was asked by JH was "Do Investors want a NSX listing of their units"? - with a show of hands sydneysiders overwhelmingly said they didnt.
To my surprise The forum group in melbourne was asked the same question and Investors said they would prefer a NSX listing.
Can someone from our melbourne group clarify this as it seems to be the polar opposite to the sentiment felt in sydney in regards to the NSX
Cheers
Hi all,
The sydney Forum meeting went well. I'd like to thank all those who helped distribute flyers. Many people were very interested in gathering more information and were also interested if we could as a combined group make a complaint to ASIC.
Many of the questions were repeats of what was asked at previous meetings.
One question which was asked by JH was "Do Investors want a NSX listing of their units"? - with a show of hands sydneysiders overwhelmingly said they didnt.
To my surprise The forum group in melbourne was asked the same question and Investors said they would prefer a NSX listing.
Can someone from our melbourne group clarify this as it seems to be the polar opposite to the sentiment felt in sydney in regards to the NSX
Cheers
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Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF
Thanks Marcom,
My dads in Donnovan, Oats, Hannaford and I have to say that they (apart from collapsing) have done a great job via PWC in meticulously outlining how they are going to make distribution (now ceased) and regular quarterly capital payments. Very extensive documentation. Perhaps WC will produce the same documentation. I should ask my dad to give me a read of it all.
Thanks Marcom,
My dads in Donnovan, Oats, Hannaford and I have to say that they (apart from collapsing) have done a great job via PWC in meticulously outlining how they are going to make distribution (now ceased) and regular quarterly capital payments. Very extensive documentation. Perhaps WC will produce the same documentation. I should ask my dad to give me a read of it all.
