Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[flatback]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

exactly! why can't we ,the group ,form a corporation become totally conversent with the where withall of the funds held and owing, this process i dont believe would be as dornting as it appears,as there are people out there who are professional in these areas,clean the sheets start afresh with our money with an honest fund manager and surely senior unit holders can oversee the honest distributions to all members.I don't believe this is impossible, at least we the members will be in control of our destiny, not somebody who has past connections with the group. I might add that the need to address our constitution in its present form is of paramount importance i quote ( MFS may vary the Constitution if the variation does not effect investors rights and goes on to say if it does effect the members it will have to be approved at a meeting of unit holders to the tune of 75%) well we know that didnt happen dont we.I believe that NO changes should be made to CONSTITUTIONS without a common majority vote by at least a postal reply, any MAJOR decisions must have at least a postal vote of 75% .maybe the fund could be called UNITED ASSOCIATION INCORPORATED (PIF)( ps with our money we are a very strong group.cheers have a good day

 

[Jadel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Dear fellow Action Group Members

Had three phone calls so far dont know how the other members of our local group are goiing

As i stated in my previous posts Jenny Hutsons got a powerfull well organised propaganda machine going full bore

It is very difficult for a few brave souls standing at a doorways entrance handing out leaflets to counter this .

You have to have some damn good logical arguments in your flyers to convince people she is not the new Messiah after the promotional videos bickies and cosy chats.

Find a weakness , i think it is the NSX listing , once people get the idea that it has miniscule liquidity (683 milionmarket cap 37 companies )and a total average of 3.5 trades a day for the year ,It makes any agument for a fair price and liquidity for those have to exit ludicrous

Most investors just do not have a clue what is happening , and that they will be trapped for a very long period with this sort of deal

You will definitely need a phone contact number.

Good Luck AND MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU


.

 

[marcom]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

One of our AG members received a call yesterday from a contractor/builder on a construction job in Port Macquarie - Aston Hill apartments in Mort St. - he claims the project is Wellington Capital's and sub contractors are not being paid. He said he would be at our AG meeting on the 9th. He said he had no money in the PIF, did not go into detail & seemed to be in a hurry. He just said Wellington Capital was not paying.

The Aston Hill apartments are a development of luxury apartments that were being sold off the plan; construction stopped sometime last year (if I remember right) and the developer was desperately trying to work something out with his creditors. I haven't heard anything about it for months. My partner and I saw the promotional spiel 2 or 3 years ago and couldn't believe the prices and asked the guy if he really thought he'd ever sell the $1.7 million plus apartments. He said their market was the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney, Hunters Hill, Upper north shore etc.

This project should really have no relationship to MFS/Octaviar and the PIF but it'll be interesting to hear what he has to say. Does anyone know anything about this one?

Cookie1

Here is some of the history on the Aston Hill project in Port Macquarie - yet another MFS success story!!

This article is 12 months old and the project is said to now be completed. EOI's for sale of the 24 units closed on 1/7/08 through CB Richard Ellis Metropolitan Investments Sydney.

We are owed $15million on this one.

http://www.portnews.com.au/news/local/news/general/plan-to-refinance-aston-hill-project/508724.aspx

 

[Jadel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

And Flatback i will be Flat on my back shortly as well

Half of mine was the wifes and i think she has started to give me Oleander Leaves in the Tea

 

[iamspeed]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Here is some of the history on the Aston Hill project in Port Macquarie - yet another MFS success story!!

This article is 12 months old and the project is said to now be completed. EOI's for sale of the 24 units closed on 1/7/08 through CB Richard Ellis Metropolitan Investments Sydney.

We are owed $15million on this one.

http://www.portnews.com.au/news/local/news/general/plan-to-refinance-aston-hill-project/508724.aspx

Marcom

Good investigation work. I saw it advertised in the Financial Review a couple of weeks back - terrible time to be selling. I think this sort of thing gives hope that assets are there to be realsied and money recovered - hopefully our $15mill and any penalty interest. Pitty for the guys who put in the $5mill. Maybe if we can't sell it we turn it into a time share for PIF unit holders??

These sort of posts add value. This is how we are going to get the return of $1 (god help us). Please everyone a deep breath and no more posts about NSX or distributions for at least an hour!!

Cheers

 

[Cookie1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks Marcom and Iamspeed for the update on the Aston Hill project - didn't realise it was actually an MFS project and didn't know it was completed! These little projects seem to be everywhere! I was trying to remember David Bloomfield's name; he's the one who was promoting sale of apartments in the shop front here in Port.

Cookie1

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

One of our AG members received a call yesterday from a contractor/builder on a construction job in Port Macquarie - Aston Hill apartments in Mort St. - he claims the project is Wellington Capital's and sub contractors are not being paid. He said he would be at our AG meeting on the 9th. He said he had no money in the PIF, did not go into detail & seemed to be in a hurry. He just said Wellington Capital was not paying.

The Aston Hill apartments are a development of luxury apartments that were being sold off the plan; construction stopped sometime last year (if I remember right) and the developer was desperately trying to work something out with his creditors. I haven't heard anything about it for months. My partner and I saw the promotional spiel 2 or 3 years ago and couldn't believe the prices and asked the guy if he really thought he'd ever sell the $1.7 million plus apartments. He said their market was the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney, Hunters Hill, Upper north shore etc. BUY WHOLESALE - RE-SELL RETAIL OR HOLD AS AN INVESTMENTAston Hill is a recently completed residential development at 20-22 Mort Street and 26B Warlters Street, Port Macquarie.

Port Macquarie is said to be the capital of the mid-North Coast of NSW, located 390km approx north of Sydney and 570km approx south of Brisbane. The town is located on the coast at the mouth of the Hastings River.

The property comprises of:
* 24 completed 3 bedroom units averaging 190 sqm of internal area and 102 sqn if terrace/balcony
* 2 townhouses completed June 2008
* Scope for commercial use, as dual-key serviced apartments for overnight, motel style accommodation
* Significant depreciation allowances (Completed May 2008)
* All units have a north aspect and due to the elevated hillcrest position, enjoy water and town views
* The property is to be sold in-one-line or in towers/levels

 

[iamspeed]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Problem solved!!

I just saw the Super Sugar Strategy link at the bottom of the page. I checked the site and this is what it said:

How to turn $3,000 into $2,000,000+ in the next 18 months using the Super Sugar Strategy™***

Quick someone let JH know!!

Am I the only person who has been sent mad by this experience?? Better get home to start drinking the 6 stubbies to help me sleep at night. I might claim them as a tax deduction as they are somewhat investment related??

:alcohol:

 

[Rocky1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

My thoughts on the Melbourne Forum

We will receive in TOTAL a 3c "distribution" by Christmas. This "distribution" will be paid from capital. I couldn't quite understand exactly where the capital was coming from but when I asked this she kept mentioning "there are a lot of losses in the bottom line at the moment". Although the distributions will be from capital it will not reduce the number of units we hold. This type of distribution is likely to continue for some time. Distributions will be quarterly starting in 09. It is also likely that these distributions will be mostly non taxable (WC will provide us an explanation of how the distribution was funded to show to our accountants)

Most investors seemed to be leaning towards the option of leaving there money in the fund for JHs proposed 3-5 years in the hope she can return our $1 value. I guess most people are thinking if we liquidate they will get 14 cents (although I find this hard to believe), or they can sell via the NSX (if buyers present). If JH is able to restore $1 unit value then based on 5 years this a better return than taking 14 cents or 45 cents and reinvesting that money. I believe that she will make up certain ground through recovery from OCV (the 147.5 mill) and the realisation of true capital value (at the moment I think the 45 cents is based on deflated values).

I also asked her to provide us with more transparent figures on the state of the fund, e.g loan A is for $ at % and is secured or unsecured and the valuation of assets versus likely return when the economy recovers. She said she would provide this information in the next update.

I also asked her if the NSX would be the only way of redeeming our money in five years time and she said that it could be an evolving process where other options (e.g ASX) may become an alternative vehicle

Jenny also mentioned that she would look into unit trading between current holders and the possibility of an AG rep sitting on the board

Personally my gut feel is that JH will restore value to the PIF, maybe not a 1$, but hopefully close to it and waiting for this is better than the current alternative. For this to happen though we need to vote for her plan NOT liquidation.

Having said this though I would like to look at the option of other RE's. We are running out of time and if we wish to pursue this path need to get moving. As such we need to get to get our structure and POA happening. Whether we use this in the immediate future or not this structure will give us power moving forward and give us a way of keeping the RE more honest

TUART - why couldn't you talk to "YOUR" people and in a confidential manner present us with a summary of what they are prepared to offer via this forum.

I haven't read back through all this so I hope it makes sense.....my son wants me to play trains. I will post more later if I think of anything

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Rocky1 Quote
Jenny also mentioned that she would look into unit trading between current holders and the possibility of an AG rep sitting on the board

The AG member on the board is a change of heart from Jenny, she originally said this was not an option, due to the multiple other funds looked after by the WC Board. Glad she is re-thinking it.

Trading units between existing investors, sounds a better idea than the NSX, this will allow existing investor interests to remain intact.

Great job Rocky - your a trooper!

I just had a flashback of my first train set at Christmas! My grandpa gave it to me - he was dressed up as Santa.

 

[communique]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Please advise if anyone has asked the below questions at the forums and what response you get or got?

1. Why isn't winding up the scheme an option?
2. Did the changes to the constitution require a vote of the unitholders?
3. Who is liable if the fund liabilities are greater than the fund assets?

How were Q&A's officially documented and disseminated?

 

[reasonable]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It seemed to me today at the Melbourne forum that Jenny presented extremely well and probably represents the best chance of some recovery of capital – certainly far better than the previous incompetent managers.

I was seeking to understand her motives for taking on this job. It did not seem to be for money but for a new challenge to her. A challenge that if met would enormously enhance her already good reputation and that of her company.

I wonder what an action group could achieve that she is already striving to achieve?

 

[goldfinger38]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

My thoughts on the Melbourne Forum

We will receive in TOTAL a 3c "distribution" by Christmas. This "distribution" will be paid from capital. I couldn't quite understand exactly where the capital was coming from but when I asked this she kept mentioning "there are a lot of losses in the bottom line at the moment". Although the distributions will be from capital it will not reduce the number of units we hold. This type of distribution is likely to continue for some time. Distributions will be quarterly starting in 09. It is also likely that these distributions will be mostly non taxable (WC will provide us an explanation of how the distribution was funded to show to our accountants)

Most investors seemed to be leaning towards the option of leaving there money in the fund for JHs proposed 3-5 years in the hope she can return our $1 value. I guess most people are thinking if we liquidate they will get 14 cents (although I find this hard to believe), or they can sell via the NSX (if buyers present). If JH is able to restore $1 unit value then based on 5 years this a better return than taking 14 cents or 45 cents and reinvesting that money. I believe that she will make up certain ground through recovery from OCV (the 147.5 mill) and the realisation of true capital value (at the moment I think the 45 cents is based on deflated values).

I also asked her to provide us with more transparent figures on the state of the fund, e.g loan A is for $ at % and is secured or unsecured and the valuation of assets versus likely return when the economy recovers. She said she would provide this information in the next update.

I also asked her if the NSX would be the only way of redeeming our money in five years time and she said that it could be an evolving process where other options (e.g ASX) may become an alternative vehicle

Jenny also mentioned that she would look into unit trading between current holders and the possibility of an AG rep sitting on the board

Personally my gut feel is that JH will restore value to the PIF, maybe not a 1$, but hopefully close to it and waiting for this is better than the current alternative. For this to happen though we need to vote for her plan NOT liquidation.

Having said this though I would like to look at the option of other RE's. We are running out of time and if we wish to pursue this path need to get moving. As such we need to get to get our structure and POA happening. Whether we use this in the immediate future or not this structure will give us power moving forward and give us a way of keeping the RE more honest

TUART - why couldn't you talk to "YOUR" people and in a confidential manner present us with a summary of what they are prepared to offer via this forum.

I haven't read back through all this so I hope it makes sense.....my son wants me to play trains. I will post more later if I think of anything

Hi all,

was an interesting meeting in Melbourne, considering the emotion and anger in the room of investors, it went very well and the proposals put forward appeared on the face of it to be fair.

However further investigation is warranted as in previous comments made by other members on this forum.

The August meeting proposed which will allow votes by unitholders either in person or by PROXY will allow the fund to continue as a going concern with the current RE being WC or to liquidate fund and return investors cash by March2009 at the suggested realisable value of 14c...

If we voted to continue as a going concern, we still have the ability to pursue an alternate RE at any point in time onwards and then itwould be put to a vote at an extrordinary meeting that can be called by the minimum 100 unitholders of those that hold up to 5% of fund as previously mentioned by someone here on forum. At least the going concern option allows us more time to look at any alternate strategy and also see how WC performs for us unitholders.

Am currently exploring some options for us to consider and will put forward on the forum once I have got ideas together, the NSX listing may provide unitholders with the ability to purchase other unitholders holdings ( for those who want to exist the fund now at whatever price is offered eg 14c - 45c or less depending on what is offered on the NSX) if Jenny is proposing an annualised return of 6% on our original $1 unit value then the return to an investor buying units at 14c - 45c is spectacular, it equates to around 13.3% on 45c unit purchase price to 42.8% for 14c purchase price.

Not good for those wanting to sell but at least those wanting to stay in the fund it may be beneficial.

JH also mentioned the possibility of a special distribution that may be paid to unitholders before June 2009 depending on the success to recover loans due in that time and how much cash is sitting in the bank account. This then improves the return to investors significantly again.

NSX listing may also provide opportunity (again depending on the price being offered to purchase at) to sell some, part or all of your units, take say 45c assuming best price offered and invest this into quality stocks on the ASX since banks are presently providing dividends of up to 7% or more plus the franking credit which gives investors a potential gross return of anywhere between 9-11% paid 6 monthly.

Then you can benefit form the recovery in the share price of the ASXstocks over a 3-5 year period which may appear to be more plausible given the history of the financials and banks and their underpinned security with the RBA ( reserve bank) and the stocks are more liquid on the ASX.

These are just some of the things running around in my head as possible options to consider and choose.

Some investors may be much more comfortable having their exposure and chance of recovery with the banks than with WC.. plus on the price that the sotck are currently being traded at they appear to be very attractive for yield currently and for us investors possible a more guaranteed hope of recovery.

From a vulture fund point of view, if investors in the early period choose to offer their stock on the NSW for sale and then accept ridiculously cheap offers below the Net Asset Backing then those that buy the stocks will pick up a very handing return indeed.

Problem is not everyone still has the spare cash to do this given their funds are tied up in the PIF units.

JH read out some investors letters sent to her today regarding their financial hardship and dire position, it was very hard to listen to them and not feel for them and I am sure there are those in this forum that may be in the same position so I am not trying to take away the significance of your own circumstances however I hope that they do NOT act too quickly in taking the easy way out of selling out at any price.

Back to you soon
Cheers Goldfinger

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks for a very informative post goldfinger and others that are sharing their info here.Much appreciated. Seamisty

 

[Rocky1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It seemed to me today at the Melbourne forum that Jenny presented extremely well and probably represents the best chance of some recovery of capital – certainly far better than the previous incompetent managers.

I was seeking to understand her motives for taking on this job. It did not seem to be for money but for a new challenge to her. A challenge that if met would enormously enhance her already good reputation and that of her company.

I wonder what an action group could achieve that she is already striving to achieve?

REASONABLE,

clearly a new member but what do you mean by "I wonder what an action group could achieve that she is already striving to achieve?"

 

[Jadel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Rocky1 Quote

Jenny also mentioned that she would look into unit trading between current holders and the possibility of an AG rep sitting on the board

Looks like a change of heart. Well perhaps all our efforts have not been in vain

I think this change would give investors a great deal of assurance that none of the exploitation and abuse of investors trust will ever be repeated again

Lets see if she follows through ???

 

[reasonable]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

REASONABLE,

clearly a new member but what do you mean by "I wonder what an action group could achieve that she is already striving to achieve?"

Exactly what I said.

Jenny has the team, the experience, the incentives and the resources to get the best outcome for all. What else can an action group do except monitor and challenge?

If Jenny is true to her word she will consult the membership fully about possible outcomes anyway.

I do not mean to knock the intentions of an action group which I will support and help with if it seems likely to be able to make a difference,

Regards

 

[Rocky1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Exactly what I said.

Jenny has the team, the experience, the incentives and the resources to get the best outcome for all. What else can an action group do except monitor and challenge?

If Jenny is true to her word she will consult the membership fully about possible outcomes anyway.

I do not mean to knock the intentions of an action group which I will support and help with if it seems likely to be able to make a difference,

Regards

Reasonable

I'm sure your help would be appreciated, but please note it was never the intention of the AG to try and run the fund, plus remember these are OUR funds so why wouldn't we take an interest in how they are managed and try and ensure the best outcome for ALL in whatever way we can.

Many people have put hundreds of hours into the AG and keeping each other informed and have never looked for any praise.

After today I feel Jenny may do a good job and praise her for putting her hand up, but If the AG simply keeps the RE on it's toes then it is a good thing in my mind.

Jadel

I agree her comments were positive but please note that I said "she would CONSIDER"

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Jenny also mentioned that she would look into unit trading between current holders

Thanks for the update Melbourne guys!

Can anyone tell me if they are seriously considering putting more money into this fund by way of trading units as mentioned in the quote above? I can't imagine putting more money into this thing unless it was for less than the liquidation value but then I don't think I could live with myself knowing some poor investor was so desperate.

Reasonable: Welcome! I think you answered your own question... we aim to monitor the fund and challenge if necessary.

 

[Tuart]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Rocky1

I dont currently support starting a process to remove the RE but can help with a process to get alternative offers so you have a fall back position.

I hope to see you guys put together your AG to empower yourselves to make change if this is required however the path of least resistence is to negotiate an acceptable outcome with WC.

Rocky1 if you send an email address I will provide you with the email address of the person I spoke with today and a brief that you can provide. I think like many they will all put their hand up to take on role and they are all looking for ways to create long term value for themselves and would give you guys an alternative third party RE. A group like this will look to overtime the opportunity to move you into their own managed funds as the work out of this fund occurs.

I will also get a reponse and proposal from original parties who lodged interest with OCV.

However your AG committee I think has the potential to guide WC to a more acceptable position. WC knowing you have a structure that can commence easily a path to change gives you a strong bargaining position.

Your AG I believe if you have sufficient members could seek to injunct proposed August meeting to include the replacement of RE (and ASIC also has that power) if the WC ultimate proposal other than liquidate is not acceptable to AG and its members as it would be argued not to include a replacement RE if scheme changes are considered not acceptable or to onerous not in unitholders interest.

That would buy time.

I hope it doesnt get to that.

One vital issue which I hope someone can bring up at forum tomorrow is unfinished projects.

WC needs to explain what steps are been taken to get projects finished. If PIF cant supply funds either project will get sold, refinanced or PIF would need to slip back to second position to get bank in to finish.

If this breached current constitution then this is one thing you would support WC getting changed in a hurry as getting the projects finished may be the only way to finish and ensure you get capital back.

Things like this is where your committee could work with JH to help improve the position of the fund once they understand more fully the position of the fund and issues it faced.

As suggested by Javier I will refer parties back to solicitor.