Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[Rocky1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi all

Also glad to have found this thread. My investment in PIF was inherited and I guess one of the biggest questions I have at the moment is if Octaviar folds, does the PIF instantly fold also or are its operations and assets independent enough to remain an entity on it's own.

With regards to forming a committee I am definitely happy to put my hand up and make relevant inquiries on behalf of the committee and all investors

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi All, we are fellow OPIF investors and are glad to have found this thread today.

Count us in for calling of a general meeting. I'm certain we are not the only people who would like to get more detail on the assets held within the fund and strategy OPIF management have to resolve whatever issues exist.

I have become furious reading how poorly this fund has been managed due to its incestuous relationship with its parent company and want to find out what will happen to OPIF and our funds if Octaviar goes belly up.

Your Sincerely,

"Its incestuous relationship with its parent company", Heh! HeH! That puts a lot into a few words now doesn't it.

We can call for a general meeting (if we get the numbers) - however, we need to know WHAT we WANT from OPIF? It would have to CLEARLY show benefits to investors.

The main thing we need NOW from Guy Hutchings and OPIF management is transparency (openess and detail)! That is what we should persue NOW individually and as we get it we should communicate it to each other on the forum or via email.

If and when our group gets big enough and respectable enough we should think about approaching OPIF as a group (even before any possible meeting).

DoraNboots and anyone else reading this thread - if your happy to do so, please contact me via email at: breaker1@aapt.net.au

We need as many people on record as possible, we have a number already but not nearly enough - however the contact list is growing very slowly but surely. I hold this list of contacts with respect and responsibility. I thank the investors who have already put their hand up to assist with their contact numbers or emails - good on you! I have asked a few to do some small chase up jobs already - thanks! I am waiting for the list to grow. If we get near any meeting (demanded or passive) from OPIF, the communication should intensify.

 

[Rocky1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Just wondering if it would be worth people ringing Guy Hutchings and Jenny Houston or associated management direct with the questions that have been raised through this forum. If a number of us ring with similar questions would this put some pressure on them to call a meeting of investors?.

If people think this is worthwhile does anyone have contact details for them?

Like people have previously mentioned this is OUR money and therefore they need to be accountable and should answer our questions

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thought all might appreciate this excellent article about the Hobbs brothers considering legal advice against the OPIF. I will try and contact them! Further, I have already sent an email to the Coogee Bowling Club (no response as yet) - anyone a member?

This article, received with thanks, from a concerned investor:
Angry retirees want their money from MFS fund
Nick Nichols
Gold Coast.com

30May08

A RETIRED investor whose family has poured more than $1 million into the former MFS-controlled Premium Income Fund is in a state of limbo, unsure if he will be able to live comfortably or be forced to scrape by on the age pension.

Geoff Hobbs, of Lismore, and his brother Stuart, who lives in Victoria, are two of about 11,000 investors who have seen their money frozen in the fund in the wake of the debt crisis that hit MFS, now known as Octaviar, earlier this year.

But he is angry that there has been little information for investors about the likelihood of retrieving any of their money.

The Premium Income Fund (PIF) was Octaviar's flagship investment vehicle, but now the $770 million owed to investors cannot be claimed, if at all, until April next year at the earliest.

The fund is in the control of Jenny Hutson's Wellington Capital, which is understood to have an option until August to take over management of the fund.

Ms Hutson did not return calls yesterday.

Mr Hobbs said numerous attempts to obtain information about the state of his investment have also fallen on deaf ears.

Mr Hobbs, 69, has invested $880,000 into PIF while his brother has $195,000 invested.

He said while he still had some income from other sources, his brother put his entire nestegg into the fund after selling his farm in Victoria.

"The hardest hit is for my brother," said Mr Hobbs.

"He can't even get a pension.

"He is deemed to be too wealthy until (Centrelink) gets notification to the contrary from the Premium Income Fund.

"He's eating pies at night and can't fix his mower or afford to run his car.

"I don't think they know what they're doing to people."

PIF originally announced a 180-day freeze on redemptions by investors to help stabilise the fund. This has since been increased to 360 days since the takeover by Wellington Capital.

For investors such as Mr Hobbs, it means he has to wait 360 days from the day the funds were originally deposited before they can be retrieved.

In his case, he has to wait until August next year to recover part of the money he has invested.

He said he was now 'living on an overdraft' which had blown out to about $50,000.

"We're just trying to get an idea of what the fund is worth," he said.

"We want to know if we have to sell our house now and buy something cheaper or whether we should rent.

"They've got to be more transparent."

The Hobbs's story is being played out for many of the fund's embattled investors.

Last week, it was revealed that Coogee Bowls Club in Sydney was forced to appoint an administrator because interest payments from the fund had dried up.

The club invested $200,000 into PIF six years ago and, after monthly interest payments were stopped three months ago, it was now unable to meet many of the club's daily expenses.

Mr Hobbs said he had investigated the possibility of whether he could move to wind up the fund.

He said he was awaiting advice on the matter.

Maurice Blackburn Lawyers, which is spearheading a potential class action against Octaviar and is being backed by litigation funder IMF, said it had been approached by several PIF investors looking to recover their funds.

Ben Slade, who is handling the Octaviar action from the firm's Sydney office, said Maurice Blackburn still was assessing the 'appetite of victims' to pursue the matter.

Mr Slade, who expressed his concern yesterday for victims of the corporate implosion, said it was unlikely Maurice Blackburn could take on a potential PIF action due to conflicts of interest between the aggrieved parties.

PIF is still owed $50 million by Octaviar via a support facility, payment of which is being pursued by the fund.

At last count, PIF had bank debt of $100 million, down from $168 million, with the latest update on May 9 telling investors asset sales were continuing.

There has been no indication of the net value of the fund's assets or what was likely to remain for the 11,000 investors.

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Just wondering if it would be worth people ringing Guy Hutchings and Jenny Houston or associated management direct with the questions that have been raised through this forum. If a number of us ring with similar questions would this put some pressure on them to call a meeting of investors?.

If people think this is worthwhile does anyone have contact details for them?

Like people have previously mentioned this is OUR money and therefore they need to be accountable and should answer our questions

Rocky - contact numbers as requested under: I think you might find that Guy Hutchings works out of the OPIF Sydney Office. It has been my experience it is best to ring business men and women, early in the morning to get their attention.
All the best.

Also please note that Wellington Capitals website is back on air:
http://www.wellcap.com.au/

Wellington Capital Limited ACN 114 248 458
Head Office
Level 22 307 Queen Street
Brisbane Qld 4000

Sydney Office
Level 11, 6-10 O'Connell Street
Sydney NSW 2000

All Correspondence to
GPO Box 694
Brisbane Qld 4001

Ph: 1300 368 848 (cost of local call I believe)
T 07 3009 9800
F 07 3009 9893
E info@wellcap.com.au

PICS of Wellingtons Directors, etc: http://www.wellcap.com.au/personnel.html



Octaviar Limited - Administration Offices
SydneyLocation:
Level 21, Governor Macquarie Tower
1 Farrer Place, Sydney NSW 2000

Mailing Address:
PO Box R1693
Royal Exchange NSW 1225

Telephone: +61 (0)2 8259 7200
Facsimile: +61 (0)2 9252 6201

MelbourneLocation:
Level 20, 101 Collins Street
Melbourne VIC 3000

Mailing Address:
Mail Box 123, 101 Collins Street
Melbourne VIC 3000

Telephone: +61 (0)3 9657 2600
Facsimile: +61 (0)3 9654 1191


SouthportLocation:
5 Hicks St
Southport QLD 4215

Mailing Address:
PO Box 10414
Southport QLD 4215

Telephone: +61 (0)7 5557 7700
Facsimile: +61 (0)7 5527 0205

OPIF Client Services
Telephone: 136 637 (cost of local call I believe - Southport Office) or +61 (0)7 5555 4300
Facsimile: +61 (0)7 5532 5898
Email: mail@octaviar.com.au
Location: 5 Hicks Street, Southport QLD 4215
Mailing Address: PO Box 10414, Southport QLD 4215

 

[Tuart]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hello to all PIF investors.

To maximise the value of your capital return investors have to collectively agree to a workout.

Although everyone wants their money back ASAP the result of this is a continued firesale of investments and loans that PIF is exposed to.

The recent sale of the GEO shares shows the desperate claw for cash going on.

The proposed sale of the LLA debt to Artic is a further example of the PIF taking a loss to appease bankers.

If PIF holders were to block this proposed sale they could instead of selling debt convert this debt to equity in LLA. Become the vulture fund not be the victim. If PIF took 50% of Artic position LLA itself requires far less cash through a rights issue.

This is one example of how value can be clawed back rather than investors losing so that the banks can get money back.

To try and stand up and fight and remember collectively PIF investors have power, indivually they have none, the following steps I think need to happen.

1) You need the 100 signatures to call the meeting

2) Meeting notice contains resolutions
- for existing RE to present a report with the full position of each investment and loan
- for the RE to be replaced with a third party independent RE

In calling the meeting the group should also call for the existing RE to block LLA deal in the current form and seek to alter terms so that Artic and PIF jointly undertake the vulture fund role in LLA.

You would need to do this through the press but surely James Packer couldnt be to upset to help look after the 11,000 mums and dads. We dont want all of the deal just half.

A review of the last LLA balance sheet and cashflow statement show that this is an income earning group. LLA stake for PIF means PIF acquires an undervalued asset.

- to replace the existing RE there needs to be quickly an alternative sourced and the group needs to create a small fighting fund to have legal help to prepare resolutions and call the meeting.

Any thoughts or comments on above would be appreciated but something like this needs to happen in days not weeks to stop the firesale.

It also need to be done in public with all guns blazing through the press. NAB, RBOS Artic WC need to all publically be asked why they would not support this including LLA deal. Doesnt change LLA life as Artic were buying debt and then LLA doing rights issue and refinance.

 

[Javier]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I am flying out of the country for a week. I belive we need to get collective legal representation for PIF investors too. The LLA block sounds good, and a way to start making money, rather than these constant losses. I have left several msgs for Jenny to return my call, but am still waiting! We need to start bombarding her to get a meeting asap. Once we do that, we can start addressing the investors and getting names etc, right now it's so hard to get even 100 people. Tuart, what happened to you providing evidence of orher prospective REs not getting a look in? I am a bit confused as to who you are and your intentions. For someone who is not an investor and just has "friends" that are, you sure are passionate.

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

A date must be set for the recommcement of PIF distributions. Will Perpetual Trustees please tell us where our money is. Who are these new board members who now oversee our money? RBOS will have been repaid bt the end of July, I hear. This continuing stone-walling is causing PIF investors financial hardship and the management is weaving and ducking all the time. Why? ASIC, please help.

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

This link is for the WC website. It includes a phone number for Ms Hutson.
http://www.wellcap.com.au/

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

LLA RECAPITALISATION PROPOSAL WITH NAB BANK
See link to ASX announcement dated 02/06/08 under:
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/research/...=&principalActivity=&industryGroup=NO#details

TUART - would this effective recapitalisation effect your desire for the OPIF "instead of selling debt convert this debt to equity in LLA. Become the vulture fund not be the victim. If PIF took 50% of Artic position LLA itself requires far less cash through a rights issue" ??

Futher, regarding the money LLA owes to OPIF: that the OPIF apparently has an alternative option to change the cash loan into an asset in LLA rather than a loan released till the end of 18/06/08. That might need to be clarified however.

Next Topic:
Wellington Capital option to be the RE
To the best of my undrstanding Wellington Capital is not the RE (responsible entity) yet. Octaviar Investment Management (OIM) is still currently the RE.

This is the fuzzy part: I think WC wants to be the RE by purchasing approx. 2 million shares off OIM (or OCV LTD?). By shares, it does not mean ASX shares, it apparently means ownership of various parts (other holdings) of OIM - whatever that means.

Wellington Capital has on option to be the RE (which basically means the legal management) of OPIF till 31/08/08. Wellington Capital is engaging in "due dilligence" now - whichmeans they are looking at all the books of OPIF to see if it is a viable and potentially profitable option to WC. WC does not have to proceed to be the RE if it finds it doesn't want to after inspecting the OPIF books.

If WC become the RE - OPIF will no longer have ANY relationship with OCTAVIAR legally, besides perhaps keeping the name OPIF, which most likely would be changed again anyhow. Further, that useless, so called independant (protective) entity, called Perpetual will no doubt be given the flick also. What good Perpetual ever did I'll never know?

ASIC is said to be aware of WC's desire to the management rights of OPIF and if it is happy with WC's strategy to "fix" all of OPIF's problems, it will allow the RE transfer. I personally can't see ASIC knocking this transfer back.

Further, I understand that OPIF or WC management don't legally need to hold a meeting of investors for approval to do this - according to one inside source at least. What an action group can acheive legally, needs to be clarified.

Nevertheless, whether OPIF or WC need to hold a meeting or not (legally) with investors - for PR and MORAL reasons it most certainly should hold a general investor meeting BEFORE proceeding with any management transfer - otherwise there is going to be bad blood between investors and OPIF / WC management. OPIF need to take the bull by the horns and hold a general meeting ASAP in an effort to appease investor anger - otherwise if that anger continues to build, it could spell real trouble in the near future.

 

[Rocky1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It would appear that there is a general feeling that we need to pursue a meeting with OPIF/WC management. As has been identified we need 100 investors, so I figure we get the ball rolling and over the next couple of days come up with ideas to find these investors. To kick things off what do people think about advertising or putting an article in major papers identifying our goal and calling for investors to join the group. I am in Melbourne and happy to meet with or discuss this with anyone. My email address as a first point of contact is adam.thorn@optusnet.com.au (I think that with the passionate people we have already - Breaker etc, we could achieve our goal of a meeting)

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It would appear that there is a general feeling that we need to pursue a meeting with OPIF/WC management. As has been identified we need 100 investors, so I figure we get the ball rolling and over the next couple of days come up with ideas to find these investors. To kick things off what do people think about advertising or putting an article in major papers identifying our goal and calling for investors to join the group. I am in Melbourne and happy to meet with or discuss this with anyone. My email address as a first point of contact is adam.thorn@optusnet.com.au (I think that with the passionate people we have already - Breaker etc, we could achieve our goal of a meeting)

Firstly, we don't necessarily have to have 100 investors to hold a meeting with management OPIF/WC. We need a 100 investors to force a meeting, IF management don't want it. This meeting would then become open to all 11,000 members. We may be able to have a meeting with OPIF and WC, if they are willing and preparred to be candid with us turning up at say, Guy Hutchings Office Sydney. Any meeting would need to be well organised and have our agenda and questions at the ready. These things are hard to organise, peoples busy time, etc - we need to be well planned. About a dozen of us could turn up at an appointment time agreed to by Guy and Jenny (I don't know if she would fly down to Sydney for only a small group of us).

We could have 10,000 of us at a meeting, but if we wern't organised and didn't know exactly what we wanted OPIF to do and were vague with our questions, it would be a shambles. I appreciate your keen-ness, but at present we are still getting our act together, still trying to formulate an agenda, still trying to get enough info together to make intelligent propositions. Still getting enough names together. Getting an understanding of investor rights under the corporations act. I think individually we still need to dig for info and bring it back here to further develop the bigger picture. I doubt that OPIF even know what they want to do yet, besides get rid of the Royal Bank Of Scotland as their main priority and hope that Jenny's WC takes up the RE option. I am not saying, let this drag on for ever though! But as a group we need to get a bit tighter together first.

I am compiling investors that are slowly contacting me, I believe from a conversation I will have shortly, I will have another 3 or 4 join us. Hopefully one with access to legal advice. I believe after a while this dripping of names of investors will increase exponentially. Your proposal to advertise needs to be a bit more specific - which media, what city, what town, who will pay for it, etc. We could spend all that money and then find that OPIF has called a meeting themselves, which apparently may be on the cards. Further, I feel MFS LTD may fail at any moment and that could change the whole picture.

I feel a small group gaining management access in the short term is the go.

Open for discussion.....

 

[breaker1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

It does get complicated:

Leisure operator on the edge: http://business.smh.com.au/leisure-operator-on-the-edge-20080602-2kyf.html

"At the same time, Arctic would take on $63 million of an unsecured $70 million loan that LLA has outstanding with Octaviar's Premium Income Fund."

 

[Tuart]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Good morning PIF investors

In relation to LLA the idea that PIF seek to change the terms of the Artic deal does not ultimately effect LLA.

Artic is buying your debt but are not forgiving LLA so LLA still owes the money. Artic buys debt at discount.

Through the rights issue which if the shareholders dont stump up Artic effectively converts debt to equity gets a major stake in company. Either he gets paid out full value on debt or get a big chunk of LLA.

I just cant see why PIF cant do half the deal with Artic instead of taking the haircut. It needs to stand up to RBOS but if this is done publically I beleive it can be done.

In terms of getting the 100 people you have certain rights as investors.

You can get a copy of the register

Breaker instead of going on HotCopper and adverting this forum you need to say tht a there is a proposed PIF action group and give a private email address to get on list.

You need to work out if you are going to call a meeting and demand full transparency and/or replace RE with a totally independent RE removed from OCV.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Good morning all.Excellent post Rocky1. Surely Jenny Hutson must realise she is dealing with 11,000 extremely disgruntled investors.She is being very short sighted by refusing to answer enquiries from people who she will be relying heavily on for the future success of the PIF and in effect doubling the size of WC. All we are asking for is some transparency and answers. I personally feel if she doesn't call a general meeting shortly and forces us to take action ourselves, she is leaving the PIF wide open for a mass exodus no matter what the losses are. People can only take so much!!!Don't forget some of the same staff who lied and misled us, fobbed us off, wrote letters stating all is well blah blah blah are still the same people we will have to deal with after JH is in charge.I am not prepared to ever have to deal with people of this calibre again!!! Seamisty:

 

[Tuart]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Seamisty

The people you are attacking are just trying to do their job. They had a dictator I am guessing who used the PIF as their own bank. They would have not been told the truth and acted on instructions of the leaders.

Dont attack these people as they were just trying to do their job and were fed the same bulls--- which sadly for them as the public face they are the voice or name on the letter.

One thing needed is transparency to see what damage is done and what is left.

I am guessing they will come out with an offer of a moritorium with some cash from OCV if voted for.

PIF holders need to get on front foot and call a meeting. Either Wellington comes clean on position and how they are going to get all of PIF holders money back or they have to go.

At some point like all the other MSF associates it must become easier to totally remove PIF management from any association with OCV and as much as Wellington Cap claims to be removed three months ago they were the financial advisors of Chris Scott a major OCV shareholder and now director of OCV.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Tuart, If some employees have been with a company for 5-10 years, mix with their employers socially and call themselves senior financial advisers, chief executive officers etc, and have no idea what is going on, don't you think this equates to incompetence? And if you really didn't know and were unintentionally misleading and lying to investors, would you than stay with the same people after you found out you had been used in this manner? I agree that the majority in all honesty were only operating under instructions and did have no idea. I am not personally attacking anyone, just saying I would not feel confident in dealing with the same people again. The majority of these employees no doubt feel as betrayed as the investors, but the damage has been done and I agree we now need to concentrate on moving foward. I value your posts, Thankyou, seamisty

 

[Rocky1]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

In terms of advertising or putting an article in the newspaper I was thinking the major papers e.g Mercury, Advertiser, Herald Sun, Morning Herald, Australian as this would catch the widest audience. In terms of the bill, I'm sure we can unite on that if people think it is a good idea. Basically we are trying to generate numbers to action a meeting to be called by JH or CH or both. Once that meeting is called all investors will be aware of it.

Tuart you mentioned we could get a register - care to elaborate

In terms of being organised for the meeting I believe most of what we want to know is fairly straight forward and has already been discussed on this thread.

Surely a representative group could hold a round table meeting to ensure we are well prepared.

I guess the question is how long do we wait, how much more time do we give these people to eat away our unit value (the latest report shows that it has dropped a further 2-3 cents). I think we need to get serious!!!!!!!!!!! if not only for ourselves but for all those other unit holders out there, especially the pensioners

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Another month of financial loss and another obstinate newsletter appeared yesterday.

A message to PIF:

Answer the important questions that surface daily on this blog. That is the only way you can regain any confidence from increasingly angry PIF investors. Repeating platitudes in the "updates" insults investors' collective intelligence. Amongst all the other difficulties you face, there's a major PR problem. Step up to the plate and let's talk for real.

 

[Tuart]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

As I mentioned previously I am not a PIF investor personally.

I have a fair understanding of the position and what rights investors have.

As a unitholder you would either have the right to a copy of the register or the right to inspect the register. This is one avenue to gather the names but I cannot do this only investors can.

The other method was as breaker was trying to achieve which was through posts in other forums. He was moderated for advertising this forum which is why I suggested going back there and providing a private email.

Before breaker posts were moderated I have noticed it did draw across some new members who are investors so it worked to a degree.

You are talking 100/11000 which is less than 1% needed to get a meeting called.

You then need a consensus from the 100 to demand report from RE
and if the consensus agrees put up a resolution to replace the existing RE with independent RE.