Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

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marcom said:
...Mitch Craig is the auditor from KPMG who signed off on MFS accounts.
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Ah yes the public examination of Mitch Craig which none of our media reported on. And why is that? Indifference to the collapse of a multi billion $ ASX listed company? To protect our class action? Or to protect KPMG?

Seamisty & Marcom: check out Corruption Perceptions Index on wikipedia. We rate ourselves above France, Germany, Japan , USA and UK. Yeah right. Whatever.

It seems clear to me that Australia is more comfortable with dodgy dealings than these other countries. Much of corporate Australia probably don't even truly understand what ethics is. It's all about doin' tha deal. And again, even our legal fraternity don't appear to be that keen on considering equitable conduct. (see my lawlink.nsw.gov.au below)

And ASIC have the guile to rule on 'commercial morality'. What fantasy land do they live in.
 
LOL!!

" Chief Justice French acknowledged there are aspects of litigation that are inescapably labour intensive, but said time-costing for lawyers has gone far beyond the status of a management tool.

He said it is seen in some quarters as "an encumbrance on professionalism, placing a premium on inefficiency" and welcomed debate to look at alternatives."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/10/29/3051492.htm

Wow. For a Chief Justice to publicly voice such an opinion? How bad are Australia's corporate professionals?

Just imagine how much this has cost our fund. And as I wrote yesterday: much of corporate Australia probably don't even truly understand what ethics is.
 
Every corporate watchdog has its day Scott Rochfort
October 29, 2010



Hollow triumph ... Tony D’Aloisio celebrates ‘‘a year of achievement’’. Photo: John Shakespeare
The corporate regulator has again displayed its lightning-fast reflexes by being the first to recognise something that appears to have been missed by the general market.

The Australian Securities and Investments Commission yesterday trumpeted on the front cover of its annual report that 2009-10 was: ''A year of achievement''.

In a huge comfort to the thousands of investors who lost their money in the collapses of Allco Finance, Babcock & Brown, Trio Capital, City Pacific, MFS, Sonray and Storm Financial, ASIC's head corporate grime fighter, Tony D'Aloisio, declared: ''In this fragile environment, ASIC worked hard to assist and protect retail investors by promoting financial literacy, improving the quality of information given to investors and vigorously enforcing the law.''
Among the many achievements listed in the annual report was ASIC's distribution of 37,000 brochures that advised people on ''Investing between the flags''.

''ASIC looked across the entire financial industry in order to bring about improvements in behaviour,'' the corporate puppy dog said of another of its achievements.

The year of achievement included 12 white-collar criminals being sent to jail, down from the 27 five years earlier. Beware corporate wrongdoers, an ASIC brochure with some flags is coming your way.


What a joke you are ASIC!! 37,000 brochures advising people on safe investing? How many HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS REMAIN FINANCIALLY RUINED and you ASIC, the so called regulators are still twiddling your thumbs and scratching your bums while you wait for others to do your work for you!!

I for one have NEVER EVER been given ONE single piece of usefull advice from the many taxpayer funded employees at ASIC or received any satisfactory answers or results to date to the many issues and concerns raised with them re PIF over 2 and a half years. I long ago realised all I was ensuring was that there will be a traceable record of events and the subsequent inactivity by ASIC which ultimately has resulted in further losses to PIF investors! Surely if no satisfactory action is forthcoming after the Public Examinations are completed someone somewhere is going to sit up and finally take notice!!!???
Seamisty
 
seamisty said:
...''ASIC looked across the entire financial industry in order to bring about improvements in behaviour,'' the corporate puppy dog said of another of its achievements. ....
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Meanwhile Treasury, DoF and ASIC employees who design and police this system have their superannuation safely tucked away in a defined benefit scheme: the CSS/PSS. Retiring/departing on up to 7 times final average salary.

Oh and I guess that also includes the likes of Kerry O'Brien.

Moral hazard no matter the path.

ASIC is a failed project/program. Or worse, has become a shop-front distraction for the hustlers to use in their slight-of-hand.

Our system is failing us. We need to fix the framework. Starting by bringing our legal system more into line with our common law equivalents: the UK and US.

Step one: bill of rights and/or equitable relief. These are genuine protections. Not the corruptible artifical substitutes like the self acclaimed 'fair and balanced' media and the legislature and its spin-off projects/programs: ASIC, APRA, ACCC, etc.

Until we get such protection - hold on to your wallets.
 
selciper said:
A comprehensive, personal overview of the law, this link is useful. It leads to the thoughts of respected journalist Evan Whitton. No punches are pulled.

http://netk.net.au/WhittonCartel.asp
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Excellent link selciper. I don't feel like such a wacko.

It's good to see that anything that comes down on the side of Octaviar against us 'commercially moral' investors continues to be soiled by Octaviar's dirt.
 
CHARLES 36. Boot's n all, I have. Has there been any indication from WC as to how this return of our own money is to be treated. I know it cannot be income, I know it cannot be profit, what is liquidation of assets called? Please somebody enlighten me. Charles.
 
charles36 said:
CHARLES 36. Boot's n all, I have. Has there been any indication from WC as to how this return of our own money is to be treated. I know it cannot be income, I know it cannot be profit, what is liquidation of assets called? Please somebody enlighten me. Charles.
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In this instance Charles, ‘legal larceny by default’.
 
Unfortunately the harsh reality is that it is highly probable that under Wellington Capitals control it has cost us somewhere in the vicinity of 12 cents per unit (which we are unlikely to ever see again!) to return us 1 cent per unit of our own capital 2 years late!!! Anyone spied a media report or two with the red jacket bragging of her glowing achievements? Where's Nick Nichols who is always at the ready with his JH good news banner? OH YES!! Thats right, to mention the payment would perhaps have to go into more detail which is a :nono: if those details appear remotely detrimental it seems, or am I missing something here? Isn't this ground breaking news? How many Premium Income Fund Investors have DIED waiting for this payment WELLINGTON CAPITAL PTY LTD? Surely that aspect alone would make a human interest newsworthy report?? Don't you just hate SELECTIVE REPORTING? Lift your game Gold Coast Bulletin!!!!!:whip
Seamisty
 
charles36 said:
CHARLES 36. Boot's n all, I have. Has there been any indication from WC as to how this return of our own money is to be treated. I know it cannot be income, I know it cannot be profit, what is liquidation of assets called? Please somebody enlighten me. Charles.
Click to expand...
I too have received, tallies to the last cent.
Will treat it as returned capital. Or perhaps money lent and now returned, as the goal of original investment purpose was not fulfilled.
Hope the remainder or part thereof will soon follow.
I can't open WC update of 25 October. Other then "rejection" message, what does it say? Please inform.
Regards,
 
seamisty said:
Unfortunately the harsh reality is that it is highly probable that under Wellington Capitals control it has cost us somewhere in the vicinity of 12 cents per unit (which we are unlikely to ever see again!) to return us 1 cent per unit of our own capital 2 years late!!! Anyone spied a media report or two with the red jacket bragging of her glowing achievements? Where's Nick Nichols who is always at the ready with his JH good news banner? OH YES!! Thats right, to mention the payment would perhaps have to go into more detail which is a :nono: if those details appear remotely detrimental it seems, or am I missing something here? Isn't this ground breaking news? How many Premium Income Fund Investors have DIED waiting for this payment WELLINGTON CAPITAL PTY LTD? Surely that aspect alone would make a human interest newsworthy report?? Don't you just hate SELECTIVE REPORTING? Lift your game Gold Coast Bulletin!!!!!:whip
Seamisty
Click to expand...

Seamisty, this one (of many other thousands on google site) from "Financial Times Lexicon":

breach of fiduciary duty

When a person or company who has responsibility for managing other people's money fails to protect the interests of the people whose money they are managing. [1]

And another thought; can our combined indignation be harnessed as an alternative energy source to reduce our electricity bills?
In Sympathy,
 
simgrund said:
This article may be of interest and help to some of us.

http://www.smh.com.au/money/on-the-money/good-financial-advice-is-hard-to-find-20101022-16wio.html

Regards
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ROFL!!! From that article: "Not unexpectedly many financial planners came out against the measure. One of the main reasons given for retaining commissions was that a fee-for-service model would mean low income earners could not afford to get advice."

So interest free repayment plans like Harvey Norman etc offer isn't good enough for Financial Advisors? Sound too much like hard work? Would rather the product providers do all the hard work for them? What a bunch of bludgers. How about doing some work and studying accountancy? Rather than taking the easy path to easy money. Boo Hoo.

I'm looking forward to the changes accountants have made to their profession leading to Financial Planners being abruptly run out of business. I just feel sorry for the suckers who believe in ASIC's 'Commercial Morality' that they manage to bleed dry on their way out.
 
Duped said:
ROFL!!! From that article: "Not unexpectedly many financial planners came out against the measure. One of the main reasons given for retaining commissions was that a fee-for-service model would mean low income earners could not afford to get advice."

So interest free repayment plans like Harvey Norman etc offer isn't good enough for Financial Advisors? Sound too much like hard work? Would rather the product providers do all the hard work for them? What a bunch of bludgers. How about doing some work and studying accountancy? Rather than taking the easy path to easy money. Boo Hoo.

Looking forward to the changes accountants have made to their profession leading to Financial Planners being abruptly run out of business. I just feel sorry for the suckers who believe in ASIC's 'Commercial Morality' that they manage to bleed dry on their way out.
Click to expand...

Sorry Duped, did not mean to raise your heart palpitations with that one.
You are spot on; these hyenas will be clutching onto this blood money well into the demise of this system.
By then it just might be criminalised to the point of being poison to touch.
Regards,
 
Following is an article by Nick Samios published by Business Spectator. This could explain how the ATO leapfrogged us unsecured creditors despite Hutson's claims during the roadshow that the ATO was ranked equally. I remember reading about a garnishee notice in Fortress defence in one of the QLD Supreme Court decisions. Does anyone know if DPNs were issued to the MFS/OCV directors?

"Ringing in SME tax debts"

"... Prior to the 1993 changes to the law, the ATO ranked ahead of unsecured creditors in an insolvency. These days it ranks equally, but has this power to attach debts to the directors personally – an avenue only otherwise available to creditors who take director's personal guarantees.

...during and in the aftermath of the GFC, the ATO was more lenient on late taxpayers with flexible payment agreements and tax ‘holidays’ for struggling businesses. However, he adds that “since around March this year, ATO winding-up applications have risen noticeably and we’ve seen an increase in clients seeking advice about Director Penalty Notices and garnishee notices.”

 The big change in the law is that until recently, a director could avoid personal liability after they receive a DPN by taking one of four steps: pay the tax debt; appoint a voluntary administrator; appoint a liquidator to wind up the company; or enter into a written arrangement with the ATO to bring the debt up to date over a period of time. I have seen arrangements for anything up to 24 months, though shorter periods (three to six months) were more common.

The fourth option is now off the table once the DPN is in play – obtaining a payment arrangement (the fourth option above) no longer constitutes compliance with the DPN – and directors believing it does (as it used to) are living in a fools paradise.
Olde says that increasingly, he is seeing the ATO use garnishee notices aggressively against small business rather than the big corporates which has been typical in the past." [emphasis added]


Combine that with Mark Korda's definition of insolvency and the question of solvency becomes rather elastic doesn't it? Including the assessment of risk. Nothing is fixed. Everything is always moving. Clear as mud. How does that help transparency for potential investors in Australian companies? And all the protagnists are out there basing their opposition of the Singapore takeover of the ASX on 'lack of transparency'. What a load of B(usiness)S(pectator).
 

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