Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

breaker1 said:

G'day Mel

The terms "misleading" and "bullying" are not mutually exclusive
Have you passed your concerns on to ASIC and if so in what capacity - are you a PIF unit holder?

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And in line with the above; we think many of your comments Mellifluous, are superfluous.
We do not need to be badgered by an avalanche of your "YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS or YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT".
We as a group have long ago matured into a sober and focused initiative; taking us towards an outcome in a Class Action.
Till that outcome materializes, we will continue in any rational and productive discussions of WC and PIF interactions.
But we refuse to be needled by unnecessary and ill timed comments from you or elsewhere which may raise unhealthy reactions.
Rather than scorn us for our disorganization or disorientation, I suggest you go way back to the post No.1. of this thread.
On the ball from the first stroke of pen, would you agree.
Then scroll down to #3826 and assume from that, that we regard this thread as a valuable tool of exchange of information. We like that to remain as such and not turn back the clock to the possibility of repeating events of #3826.
So please, good friend, show some consideration and join us as a positive contributor without antagonizing us with unproven "legalese" of your arguments.
Delivered in the goodest of spirits,
Regards,

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Directions from the Federal Court session yesterday re Bond Street Custodians:

IN THE FEDERAL COURT OF AUSTRALIA
NEW SOUTH WALES DISTRICT REGISTRY
GENERAL DIVISION No: (P)NSD1628/2008

BOND STREET CUSTODIANS LTD ACN 008 607 065
Plaintiff

WELLINGTON INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT LIMITED ACN 101 634 146
Defendant

ORDER

JUDGE:
Justice Perram
DATE OF ORDER:
10 February 2010
WHERE MADE:
Sydney

THE COURT ORDERS THAT:

1. The Defendant file and serve any further lay evidence (including on the issue of causation) that it intends to rely on at trial by no later than 10 March 2010.
2. The Plaintiff file and serve any expert evidence it intends to rely on at trial by no later than 5 May 2010.
3. The Defendant file and serve any expert evidence it intends to rely on at trial by no later than 16 June 2010.
4. The parties liaise with respect to finding appropriate hearing dates in the range July – October and to contact my associate to arrange for the filing of the matter for a hearing with an estimate of five days.
5. The matter be stood over for further directions on 22 June 2010 for the purpose of pre-trial directions.
6. Liberty to restore on 5 days’ notice.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

PIF December Update finally arrived in the post this morning. This will be a bad day for those unit holders who do not have access to this site.

Incidently if they ever do pay the 3 cents, will their .7% be based on the NSX price, or a valuation of portfolio (by whom one wonders!).???

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

From the Explanatory Memorandum: "0.7% per annum of the value of funds under management of the Fund. This fee will be calculated with reference to the value of funds under management at the end of the previous month."

The latest audited 'value' we've been given is 39.2c. I understand the valuation will have been revisited for the 1/2 yearly financial report ending Dec 31. It'll be interesting to see if the $20m from the Sheraton Mirage sale is written off in the Dec 1/2 yearly.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Duped said:

From the Explanatory Memorandum: "0.7% per annum of the value of funds under management of the Fund. This fee will be calculated with reference to the value of funds under management at the end of the previous month."

The latest audited 'value' we've been given is 39.2c. I understand the valuation will have been revisited for the 1/2 yearly financial report ending Dec 31. It'll be interesting to see if the $20m from the Sheraton Mirage sale is written off in the Dec 1/2 yearly.

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Maybe that is why JH is going through the expensive motions of not releasing the 2nd mortgage over the Mirage Duped? So she can keep the extra $20mill on the books indefinitely now she thinks the management fee is about to be triggered!! Still no mention of the other $30mill Raptis 1st mortgage. What deal did JH strike with her good friend Jim Raptis on behalf of PIF investors? So many PIF related questions continue to go unanswered. Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Might be worth taking preemptive action by giving the auditor a heads up. Anyone know somebody at PWC?

Had another look at the 2009 annual report.

PIF finished off the year with equity of $296.351M. 'Expenses' were reported to be $7.071M.

I.e. expenses were 2.33% of our final equity (before expenses). WC better improve on that because when they add their 0.7% fee we'll be paying WC more than 3% to manage our funds.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

JohnH said:

PIF December Update finally arrived in the post this morning. This will be a bad day for those unit holders who do not have access to this site.
Incidently if they ever do pay the 3 cents, will their .7% be based on the NSX price, or a valuation of portfolio (by whom one wonders!).???

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JohnH,

I will stick my lacerated neck out to opt for the "valuation" method.
I reason that they will go by the Auditor's valuations in Annual Report.
The NSX values, conveniently for WC, are not subject to any strict audits after all.
Regards,

PS. But at the same timeI think that Centrelink should be instructed to accept the NSX value for pension calculation purposes as NSX board is the only means to make this asset liquid.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

When I voted for Jenny Hutson of Wellington Capital Merchant Bank to be our new RE and being entitled to a management fee, it was solely on the premise she offered!!!! That being:::

1.The Fund will remain a going concern and Units in the Fund will be
able to be traded on the NSX;
2.Up to 37.75 million units in the Fund will be redeemed by the Fund
at 45 cents per unit by 18 September 2009;
Wellington Capital Limited will be the new responsible entity of the
Fund; and
3.Cash payments totalling 3 cents per Unit will be made to
Unitholders by 24 December 2008 and quarterly thereafter, with the
first payment to be made in October 2008.
4.Unit value would be restored over 3-5 years.


I never for a moment anticipated that 17 months on we would have received not 1 cent return of any description, still being promised a one of 3cent return of capital with no assurance of any other regular distributions and a further erosion of unit value. Add to that the buyback scheme is highly unlikely to eventuate while units are valued at 9cents. That pathetic performance does not warrant a management fee!! Think yourself lucky to have access to our asset base to prop up your office and legal expenses Jenny because rest assured it is not only PIF unitholders that are suspicious and disgusted with what is unfolding !! I am suprised you are still going through the motions of someone who has actually achieved something for us while continuing to drag us down further. The total lack of performance can hardly been seen as a Wellington Capital success story and I will continue to make complaints regarding PIF investors rights. Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

The plight of PIF investors who aren't able to participate on this internet forum is of real concern They have only the infrequent, banal mailed updates and the helpline to depend on for information. The helpline is of no use to anybody as it dodges meaningful questions as quickly as possible. I wish we could somehow assist these people who are not in the loop.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

selciper said:

The plight of PIF investors who aren't able to participate on this internet forum is of real concern They have only the infrequent, banal mailed updates and the helpline to depend on for information. The helpline is of no use to anybody as it dodges meaningful questions as quickly as possible. I wish we could somehow assist these people who are not in the loop.

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Same here selciper! I have a few ph nos of WA investors who aren't even PIF Action Group members who contacted me through the ph book as a result of the WC IAC nomination correspondence sent out. I still have not received my Dec PIF investor update which I was told would be mailed to me in Jan 2010. (I have also not been told if Print Mail Logistics of which WC has an interest in now is responsible for WC printed and mailout material) One of my last complaints to WC was::


I would like to lodge a formal complaint as to why Jenny Hutson of Wellington Capital has not given PIF investors the option to be kept updated by email as opposed to the expensive alternative of a mail out?
Ms Hutson has been involved with the PIF in a managerial capacity for approx two years and has not made this option available which was ALREADY in place with Octaviar when she first became involved with the PIF.
In view of the fact that the PIF is severely impaired financially and appears to be getting more so, why is money being unnecessarily wasted in this manner?
It is my understanding that of the approx 5,000 investors who signed up with the IMF PIF Class Action, approx three quarters of those supplied an email contact which is being utilised by IMF rather than costly mail outs of which investors ultimately will have to cover the costs. Email is a far more efficient, less expensive option and I would consider any professional business would implement this cost saving strategy. I discussed it with Justine Buckley on the WC hotline well over a year ago and was told it was definitely an option and WC was collating a data base of PIF investor email addresses.
Does Print Mail Logistics provide the printing and mail out service for WC? If they have not in the past will they be in the future?


To date I have only received acknowledgment of the initial complaint with no answer, not that I expect from past performance to be provided with an appropriate response. And we are paying for this ineptitude?

The more I dwell on our circumstances, the more I wonder if PIF investors do not have grounds to launch another Class Action against WC! It is early days yet, a bit of patience may be needed to see what ASIC and the Public Trustee of Queensland and Bentleys deliver in regard to the initial WC aquisition of the RE rights to the PIF. Combine that with ineptitude, broken promises, misleading WC management and hotline responses and media articles, non performannce, possible related business interests, well it just goes on? I can say from my own personal experience, perseverance and persistance does appear to be achieving results so please do not give up!!( I also once again thank those who are continually supporting me and the AG by contributing at every opportunity, your input is of huge significance to our continued efforts!!)Cheers, Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I agree with you seamisty all the way.

By all means lets have a Class Action against WC, now.

How can I lodge a complaint to the ASIC. Is there an Email I can use?

I will never give up either until we get our money back and someone has gone to jail.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Simgrund. That's what I meant in my post #5143. I agree. (Must try to make my posts clear without writing an essay)

Seamisty. I think the time frame for Resolution 2, the Buy Back, has expired. Sorry. Page 15 of the EM "give Unitholders the opportunity to have their Units in the Fund bought back under certain arrangements within 12 months of the listing ... on the NSX."

If anyone is thinking of accusing us posters as just being an irrational "minority who remain distressed and angry about their situation" then let me put it to you this way. The 08/09 costs incurred by the fund under WC were at least 2.33%. Say you invested $2M. I.e. you hold 2M units. Then you've just watched WC hustle members, fail to meet its promises/expectations, continue to write down the value of the fund, get a regular kicking in court and stuff up on a regular basis like having to send a corrected Tax Statement for 07/08. All while spending over $18K of your money doing so.


From Wikidepia
Hustle:
"Hustle may mean: work a scam, intentionally "mis-direct" someone to achieve a personal gain from that person being mis-directed. The hustle, or scam, is usually performed in a fast paced environment as does not allow time to reflect on all options available to the victim, and usually plays on the greed or kindness of people and has an element of chance, although tipped overly into the favor of the "hustler", which is in proportion to how the hustlee views his chances of success.
...
Slang:
Hustle, to use a gambling technique in which a player hides his/her true skill while betting on billiards games in order to trick the opponent into significantly raising the stakes, and only then playing at full capability (or in a broader usage, engaging in a similar strategy when betting on other activities)"

Another quote from the EM.

Page 15: "What happens if this resolution is not approved ... The current board is of the view that redemption requests would only be able to be met if the assets of the Fund were sold. It is expected that this would be completed by early 2009 and Unitholders would receive approximately 14 cents per Unit."

Yeah. My understanding NOW is that meeting all those redemption requests would have ONLY needed to occur IF unit members subsequently agreed that redemption requests should be met. I.e. a fire sale of assets in early 2009 is unlikely to have been necessary.

Hence I feel like I was hustled.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

lawry1dog said:

I agree with you seamisty all the way.

By all means lets have a Class Action against WC, now.

How can I lodge a complaint to the ASIC. Is there an Email I can use?

I will never give up either until we get our money back and someone has gone to jail.

Click to expand...

http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/asic.nsf/byheadline/Contacting+us#complaint

You can lodge online. Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Duped and other thread followers.

Quote Duped::"Seamisty. I think the time frame for Resolution 2, the Buy Back, has expired. Sorry. Page 15 of the EM "give Unitholders the opportunity to have their Units in the Fund bought back under certain arrangements within 12 months of the listing ... on the NSX."



I sent the following with some other enquiries to WC on the 22nd April 2009:


"I would like to know where the Fund stands in regard to the proposed buyback scheme. In view of the fact that our units are trading at such a low price on the NSX and being deemed as being worth far less than 45cents (eg Centrelink) would this not further deplete the funds assets by having to find funds to finance this? I am totally at a loss as to how the PIF is ever going to generate stand alone income if the money garnered from every sale is used for purposes other than reinvestment"


The response back on the same day included:


The buyback remains on the agenda as it was overwhelmingly support by unitholders.


(the spelling error included!)
No mention of a time frame.
Like everything else, it'll probablly never happen IMO.
Cheers, Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks Seamisty.

Anyone have a copy of yesterday's Fin Review.

"Row over Mirage sale
The Australian Financial Review --- Page: 53 : 11 February 2010
Original article by Lisa Allen

LexisNexis Summary
St George Bank is in the Queensland Supreme Court on 12 February 2010 over a dispute with investors in the Sheraton Mirage Report. The bank wants to sell the $A62.5 million property but the Premium Income Fund and Joe Ross do not. The resort requires $A25 million in refurbishments "

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Duped said:

Thanks Seamisty.

Anyone have a copy of yesterday's Fin Review.

"Row over Mirage sale
The Australian Financial Review --- Page: 53 : 11 February 2010
Original article by Lisa Allen

LexisNexis Summary
St George Bank is in the Queensland Supreme Court on 12 February 2010 over a dispute with investors in the Sheraton Mirage Report. The bank wants to sell the $A62.5 million property but the Premium Income Fund and Joe Ross do not. The resort requires $A25 million in refurbishments "

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If Cookie1 is anywhere near a library I am sure she will oblige Duped. I have also sent her an email. Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Duped said:

Simgrund. That's what I meant in my post #5143. I agree. (Must try to make my posts clear without writing an essay)
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
From Wikidepia
Hustle:
"Hustle may mean: work a scam, intentionally "mis-direct",,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Hence I feel like I was hustled.

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A "cash cow" perhaps could be could be more applicable to us.
In a hustle at least you could "catch on" and perhaps "outhustle"; in our our current position, we caught on long ago, yet remain subservient to being milked for what its worth.
Class Action can not come soon enough for all.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Seamisty wrote:"...a bit of patience may be needed to see what ASIC and the Public Trustee of Queensland and Bentleys deliver in regard to the initial WC aquisition of the RE rights to the PIF."

There will be some explosive moments at the Bentleys public hearings, of that probability I'm confident. Yes, let's wait and see what happens at the hearings.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi,
This is my second effort at making a posting. My message last week did not get posted, must be my lack of fluency on this site.
I am an unitholder in PIf. 68,000units.
I voted "no" for Wellington/JH taking over our fund. I voted "no" to be listed on the stock market.
I have been following your postings on a regular basis. Thank you for all the great information. If not for you all, I would have no idea what is happening with PIF.
It seems like the clear overall pattern is that nothing positif has happened with JH and her team. It does not seem like we can expect much positive outcome for us unitholders with their agenda in the mid term (even long term). Aren't they are serving their interests, not ours?
Some are mentioning a class action against Wellington...but what about having a general meeting and remove them? What good is their for us to keep them as our RE? I don't see what more time will bring us except more deceptions and more money lost. Is it time to be more pro-active yet? Is it time to take charge and find new management for PIF yet? Sure it could involve some expenses but our fund keeps on bleeding anyway. At least we might get some outcome with a different management.
And why are we still listed on the stock market? The purpose of it initially was for the unitholders in need to get access to their money asap.
I guess those unitholders would have done it by now and why keep us listed now?!
Sure, we might get something via class actions. I've personally been involved in class action in the USA and believe me, not much is left for the plaintiffs at the end of it all. We still have PIF and why not try to maximize on it instead of waiting for class action?!
What is the next pro-active step?

Infinity

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks seamisty, I have already lodged a complaint.

And I will continue to lodge complaints to ASIC, all next week.

Is there any other ways to complain? Federal Government, etc..

I am thinking that if BOND legal case wins, that might trigger WC
to pay back our money they owe us. We were in the Fund only 12 months
from January 2007 and just missed out on our redemption, in 2008.

Some of you, did profit for many years in the MFS Fund, but we have not
got anything.
What sort of profits did you all earn the last 5-7 years in MFS, before January
2008.

Please can someone help us in getting our money back.

Regards
Lawrry1dog