Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[casey2708]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

....I have revalued my holding to ZERO.. .

So have I, quite a while ago. I don't expect a cent via WC management.

It was plain to me the spruik for WC was a proxy for one or two OCV/MFS directors - and their interests (direct or by hidden beneficiary) would be the focus of WC activity.

Nothing has happened to change that opinion.

Casey

 

[simgrund]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Duped, if you didn't want me to take it as a criticism then you shouldn't have written it.
Well, just for the record, there's something about stupidity and ignorance that I find repugnant and puts me off side too.
I've really said all I wanted to say (in a helpful way) - if members here can't see that they've been diddled and in a terrible position then that is a matter purely for themselves.
I'm sure there are many who would prefer to live in fantasy land rather than face the truths of why the fund really became listed.
The outcome for your fund has no bearing on my fortunes in life. I didn't come here for conflict, but rather to be helpful.
Your PIF has given some members of the FMF (including myself) a lot of insight into what not to do. Thanks.

Oh mellifuos, thoust scorn knowest no bounds.
But let me count the ways:

#5174 by duped
[BTW I sympathise with simgrund. There's something about your posts that gets me off side. I don't know what it is. Don't take it as criticism. Just a bit of feedback.]
comment: the above of above just about nails it

#5171 by mellifuous
[So, Simgrund, if you're still living in lala land and think that W.C. wasn't going to wind the fund up on a false premise then there is nothing I can do for you or the good DoctorJ (who has his own problems).]
comment: specifically; what problems the good doctorJ has?

#5173 by mellifuous
[I have emphathy for members of the PIF because I'm likewise stuck in a fund which has lost a great deal of my investment - I post because I believe what I post will be helpful to those who do not understand the position listing of the PIF has placed them]
comment: You might as well run seminars for those you wish to "help".
Make sure you have appropriate certification.

#5173 by mellifuous
Finally, you didn't add that a posting in reply to DoctorJ's posting stated:-
"... I think this is a brilliant idea. I've been looking for a thread which actually has an amalgamation of all the affected funds.
comment: From Jan 9th to date of this posting Managed coop Group increased by I post exactly

 

[simgrund]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

CONTINUED by simgrund:
By way of a contrast, Oct/PIF thread during same time frame
increased by some 320 posts. Even allowing for your
superfluous inputs, the interest and sense of appreciation is
more than evident.[/I]

#5176 by mellifuous
[I've received a few mails from other members of the PIF who find it difficult to get members of this forum to accept the facts they try to impart.]
comment: Sounds a lot like force feeding the incalcitrants
How exactly will it help us if we all wail in unison
our acceptance of the "facts" as seen by you?

I do not wish to waste this valuable resource on the menial bickering you force us to indulge in. The purpose of this posting is to have other voices added to persuade you read our posts with respect and diligence they deserve.

REGARDS

 

[k.smith]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

http://www.smh.com.au/business/colonial-to-shut-852m-mortgage-fund-20100216-o7me.html

".....Colonial First State has told investors it plans to shut down its $852 million mortgage fund after it was hit with rising lending losses.

The Commonwealth Bank-backed Colonial First State chief executive Brian Bissaker said terminating the Colonial First State Mortage Income Fund was in the best interests of investors as a whole. He said this would allow all investors to receive regular payments from the proceeds of the fund's assets....."

so Colonial First State is not listing their fund, nor is it adopting a Variable Unit Price...
their chief executive believes it is in ALL its investors best interests to shut up shop after it was hit with "rising lending losses"...

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

http://www.smh.com.au/business/colonial-to-shut-852m-mortgage-fund-20100216-o7me.html

".....Colonial First State has told investors it plans to shut down its $852 million mortgage fund after it was hit with rising lending losses.

The Commonwealth Bank-backed Colonial First State chief executive Brian Bissaker said terminating the Colonial First State Mortage Income Fund was in the best interests of investors as a whole. He said this would allow all investors to receive regular payments from the proceeds of the fund's assets....."

so Colonial First State is not listing their fund, nor is it adopting a Variable Unit Price...
their chief executive believes it is in ALL its investors best interests to shut up shop after it was hit with "rising lending losses"...

The only difference being k.smith, they did not lend the money to themselves then alledgedly create false documents to cover those losses. The difference between honest and alledged dishonest management. We copped a double whammy which is starting to look like a triple hit!! Their losses/impairments are nothing compared to those of the PIF. PIF losses cannot be compared to most other frozen funds as it is becoming blatantly obvious that had our Fund been as secure as we were led to believe and did not have to repay loans from existing assets to cover money alledgedly illegally borrowed against it for other alledged related party Octaviar outstanding debts it would have still possibly been a going concern albeit at a lesser rate of return. We know we have been robbed, it is just the extent of the corruption surrounding our current situation which needs to be proved and I believe at long last the regulatory bodies and others are on the right track to expose those responsible. It is not a case of PIF investors not intervening or doing anything proactive, it is more a case of all the relevant complaints that have been lodged from everyone involved/connected being processed and acted on accordingly. And yes, I am as dissapointed as most that it has taken so long and no support was given from many in a position of power to intervene earlier when support was lobbied!! No one is more disgusted than me that after nearly two years of writing letters and lodging complaints our situation has worsened. Any positive results/outcomes for our fund will be as a direct result from complaints made from individual PIF investors initially , not from other bodies or parliamentary enquiries on our behalf. My own complaints, letters, emails, ph calls etc would be in excess of 1,000 and I probablly have only achieved the status of a serial pest in many circumstances. So what, I know there others (such as yourself that has worked just as hard) that have done the same and will continue to make noise. ( I was once an investor in Colonial first state and was not happy with the overall performance and net results so cashed out, shame I was not aware of the alledged fraud surrounding the PIF!!!) Sorry for the essay, cheers, Seamisty

 

[charles36]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Many users of this forum will remember that we were removed by the moderators of the ASF because of bickering and insulting behaviour. This was a great disappointment to many unit holders of the PIF because little information flows from Wellington Capital. I spent considerable time persuading the moderators to let the PIF unit holders back on the forum and indicated that the forum would be conducted in a true and friendly spirit. I urge everyone to ensure that this is the way entries are placed on the ASF. I feel sure if we are removed we will not be allowed back on. Kind regards to all. CHARLES36 PIFAG ORGANISOR.

 

[mellifuous]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Many users of this forum will remember that we were removed by the moderators of the ASF because of bickering and insulting behaviour. This was a great disappointment to many unit holders of the PIF because little information flows from Wellington Capital. I spent considerable time persuading the moderators to let the PIF unit holders back on the forum and indicated that the forum would be conducted in a true and friendly spirit. I urge everyone to ensure that this is the way entries are placed on the ASF. I feel sure if we are removed we will not be allowed back on. Kind regards to all. CHARLES36 PIFAG ORGANISOR.

It seems all was well until the mention of W.C.'s misleading of members about having to liquidate the PIF.

Clearly Simgrund doesn't want members to discuss the issues relating to the proposals, explanatory memorandum, and the questions and answers relating to them.

Clearly a raw nerve has been touched.

By the way, I went to make a complaint to ASIC this morning via their eComplaint link - the system is down.

Is the regulator overloaded and incapable to dealing with the entirety of the situation?

..

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Many users of this forum will remember that we were removed by the moderators of the ASF because of bickering and insulting behaviour. This was a great disappointment to many unit holders of the PIF because little information flows from Wellington Capital. I spent considerable time persuading the moderators to let the PIF unit holders back on the forum and indicated that the forum would be conducted in a true and friendly spirit. I urge everyone to ensure that this is the way entries are placed on the ASF. I feel sure if we are removed we will not be allowed back on. Kind regards to all. CHARLES36 PIFAG ORGANISOR.

Hear hear! This site is extremely valuable. And if extreme comments are made, a writer can be personally sued...

 

[mellifuous]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hear hear! This site is extremely valuable. And if extreme comments are made, a writer can be personally sued...

Good morning Selciper,

Do you think extreme comments have been made? If so, what topic do they relate to?

You are right that we have to be careful about what we say, but the law is not so narrow that we should fear comment on important issues.

If this site to not used to discuss important issues, then what is the valuable purpose of the site?

By the way, ASIC's eComplaint is now back online - maybe it was down for maintenance.

Thanks.

 

[Jadel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

For any investor losing hope out there. I would like to say that all Action Groups are now engaged in constuctive discussions regarding our present circumstances and doing everything possible to right the past injustices, created entirely by WC taking advantage of desperate and distressed investors .These people had little choice at the time,( given their financial situation ) and had no option left to them ,other than to place their faith in Jenny H misleading and deceptive promises.I personally am more than happy for anybody who is willing to take the time and energy to add meaningfull and intelligent content to our forum .We should now look to what can be done in the future to improve our situation.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Good morning mellifuous, as you are aware PIF investors regard this thread as an extremely important PIF related information source and do not wish to jeopardize its existance. As a possible solution to not risk losing it through complaints made to moderators (which has happened previously) perhaps you could use the Funds cooperation group thread to pursue your issues as it does not have the following of this one and can afford the risk of being shut down. Apart from the fact the issues you keep raising are well known to PIF investors and have already been appropriately reported to all relevant authorities. We are starting to see results from those actions and with the growing discontent of PIF investors of the current Fund management we know we will need this thread for future solidarity. Please respect that concern. Thanks, Seamisty (PIF AG representative)

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Good morning Selciper,

Do you think extreme comments have been made? If so, what topic do they relate to?

You are right that we have to be careful about what we say, but the law is not so narrow that we should fear comment on important issues.

If this site to not used to discuss important issues, then what is the valuable purpose of the site?

By the way, ASIC's eComplaint is now back online - maybe it was down for maintenance.

Thanks.

Mel,
There are judicial proceedings taking place. So, any written comments about them need to be carefully weighed before pressing the "send" button..

It wouldn't be sensible to draw attention to any past posts that may have almost crossed the line.

Jadel - Derived some comfort from your latest post.

 

[simgrund]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Many users of this forum will remember that we were removed by the moderators of the ASF because of bickering and insulting behaviour. This was a great disappointment to many unit holders of the PIF because little information flows from Wellington Capital. I spent considerable time persuading the moderators to let the PIF unit holders back on the forum and indicated that the forum would be conducted in a true and friendly spirit. I urge everyone to ensure that this is the way entries are placed on the ASF. I feel sure if we are removed we will not be allowed back on. Kind regards to all. CHARLES36 PIFAG ORGANISOR.

In absolute agreement with you and all contributors in our efforts to preserve the core value of this thread.

Thanks for your combined optimism,

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

All about the defamation minefield.

http://users.senet.com.au/~gregogle/Risk_Minimisation.html

 

[mellifuous]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

All about the defamation minefield.

http://users.senet.com.au/~gregogle/Risk_Minimisation.html

Yes, it's a minefield alright --- but it's one that has been clearly marked.

truth and reasonable comments on beliefs honestly held are defences.

One can take it two ways - one can cower, or one can express your reasonable comments.

I can remember on this forum that a poster expressed a concern about posting a letter from your manager - now, that is cowering.

Heck, on the issue of W.C.'s misleading investors, Michael West has made a public statement, there is written legal opinion, and there is the Corporation Act which provides for funds which are non-liquid - it's not a big mystery. W.C. didn't have to wind the fund up in liquidation by 31 March 2009, it could have been done over 5 years (or any reasonable number of years) - whatever is in members' best interests.

Think about how many investors voted to list the fund because they were fearful that the fund would be firesaled (liquidated/woundup by 31 March 2009) - and think just what a diffferent outcome would have occured if W.C. has not make the statement in Paragraph 5.6 of the Q&A - I'd guess the PIF would have remained an unlisted fund.

It's the same old story, so many fearful of nothing but fear itself.

..

 

[mellifuous]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Good morning mellifuous, as you are aware PIF investors regard this thread as an extremely important PIF related information source and do not wish to jeopardize its existance. As a possible solution to not risk losing it through complaints made to moderators (which has happened previously) perhaps you could use the Funds cooperation group thread to pursue your issues as it does not have the following of this one and can afford the risk of being shut down. Apart from the fact the issues you keep raising are well known to PIF investors and have already been appropriately reported to all relevant authorities. We are starting to see results from those actions and with the growing discontent of PIF investors of the current Fund management we know we will need this thread for future solidarity. Please respect that concern. Thanks, Seamisty (PIF AG representative)

Just a couple of comments.

I seem to have been attacked when I replied to Duped - he actually asked me a question to which I replied.

Yes, it was appropriately reported to relevant authories, and nothing was done. It's extremely interesting that some members of this very forum were not aware it - so, it is not true to say that raising it has been useless.

About the Managed Fund thread, a thread that you once had interest, that thread will die.

We all stand in glass houses when we throw stones - like just how wrong you were when you made this posting:-

"... Its a pity Michael West did not research his article a little better as he missed some key points. Resolution 3 which will activate the 2% severance fee of WC up to $8million is optional so if unitholders don't like the content they can simply vote NO.There was absolutely no mention that WC has made provision for an Investor Advisory Committee which will comprise three democratically elected Unitholders who will be able to meet directly with the RE. The 'large fees' that will be paid to the manager are less than a third of what Unitholders were paying their previous managers who are responsible for the current state of the PIF. The vote is trending for an overwhelming YES vote by 97%, indicating that the majority of investors are willing to give WC the opportunity to be responsible for their investment. Why would you 'dump' a RE and appoint another unknown RE without knowing what WC are capable of? ..."

Sad thing is that Michael West did research his article well, but very few would listen to him.

There has been no posting that has been made that would cause the thread to be closed, and in any event you could just start up in yahoo or elsewhere. It's also worth nothing that the moderators of this forum would delete any postings they don't like - that is their pejorative.


..

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Quote mellifuous'There has been no posting that has been made that would cause the thread to be closed, and in any event you could just start up in yahoo or elsewhere. It's also worth nothing that the moderators of this forum would delete any postings they don't like - that is their pejorative.'


We don't want to start up elsewhere, we are quite happy here. Is it because you are not a unit holder and have nothing to lose that you don't care if we lose this thread? That is a very selfish attitude from someone who says they are only trying to help. You have two threads you started yourself, are they so boring that you have to constantly try and get a rise out of PIF unit holders?

Unitholders know our current situation is not ideal or what we expected but that is not what we voted for. We also have had the guts to admit that we have made an unintentional mistake and do not need to be told time and time again what could have or should have been done at a time when unsophisticated investors supported what they considered to be the best option available to them at the time. That option did not eventuate but it IS NOT OUR FAULT!! We are exploring all possible avenues to better our situation. We are now more aware of our rights through much research and professional advice. You are only aggravating a bad situation and causing unnecessary angst. Please leave us alone and put your efforts into your own fellow FMF unitholders, it may be more appreciated. Thanks, Seamisty

 

[mellifuous]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Quote mellifuous'There has been no posting that has been made that would cause the thread to be closed, and in any event you could just start up in yahoo or elsewhere. It's also worth nothing that the moderators of this forum would delete any postings they don't like - that is their pejorative.'


We don't want to start up elsewhere, we are quite happy here. Is it because you are not a unit holder and have nothing to lose that you don't care if we lose this thread? That is a very selfish attitude from someone who says they are only trying to help. You have two threads you started yourself, are they so boring that you have to constantly try and get a rise out of PIF unit holders?

Unitholders know our current situation is not ideal or what we expected but that is not what we voted for. We also have had the guts to admit that we have made an unintentional mistake and do not need to be told time and time again what could have or should have been done at a time when unsophisticated investors supported what they considered to be the best option available to them at the time. That option did not eventuate but it IS NOT OUR FAULT!! We are exploring all possible avenues to better our situation. We are now more aware of our rights through much research and professional advice. You are only aggravating a bad situation and causing unnecessary angst. Please leave us alone and put your efforts into your own fellow FMF unitholders, it may be more appreciated. Thanks, Seamisty

Well, with respect, if the thread becomes more important than one's ability to freely express oneself, then the sitution has really become 'back to front'.

I'm cautiously aware of the law - and I'm careful to speak to the truth - and the facts, especially taken from W.C.'s own website are the basis of that truth.

Hey, it's not about fault - that's how you're perceiving it, but the sad reality is that a lot of people still do not understand what happened.

I understand that you're one of the larger unitholders in your fund and believe it or not, having the fund listed might prove to be more costly to you than other members of the fund, especially if the issue of payments from the fund become a tax problem.

Danielle's letter to W.C. about the issue of tax remains unanswered some two months later.

Angst? angst rising from truth? Well, why shouldn't people feel peeved about finding out they've been duped? (no pun intended Duped).

It must be a pleasant world to live in where one is ignorant of the facts. Members' ignorance is a manager's best advantage.

One day you'll come to understand that it is only when EVERYONE knows and understands the facts will EVERYONE be able to make an informed decision.

Oh. and on the threads, yes they are boring -- so, we have our own coffee club which is purring along quite comfortably.

'get a rise'? --- I'll let this one pass.

I think you just want a placid news gathering forum while others 'work behind the scenes', but if nothing comes from all that work, what will you tell your fellow investors when they get nothing (or next to nothing)?

Will that be a "sorry"?

When you stiffle debate, then you will find yourself with some responsibility for the outcome. Just think how wrong you were about Michael West, and how you pressed against his counsel, what responsibility do you take for that error? nothing?

You will find comfort in the fact that this will be my last posting here - I've added everything I wanted to in order to be helpful.

I wish you all good luck.

..

 

[wally3218]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

A big thank you to everyone that does post revant information for the unit holders.
l hope we dont go down the path of the last forum and and start bicuring like last time.
This is the only way to get recent information about the fund, I usually read it here before getting a letter or glossy mailout from WC two months later

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Class Action Update

Tomorrow the hearing will continue at 10.15am as to whether the former PIF responsible entity Wellington Investment Management Ltd is to be removed as a named respondant in the IMF/Carney Class Action regarding access to PIF related information/documentation. I hope if the result can be seen as being 'price sensitive' information it is not released to the media before being posted on the NSX. IMHO there has already been enough damage done to our unit value as a consequence of the previous and current management of our Fund, some good news would be a welcome change. Seamisty ::I am not a professional legal, financial or property adviser, any comments made above are only my personal investor opinion. Please seek professional advice if making any decisions regarding your PIF investment

Previously posted on the NSX
18-Feb-2010 10:15 Part Heard Justice Perram Court Room 22B
NSX announcement http://www.newpif.com.au/investor_updates/NSX Release - Class Action - 21 December 2009.pdf
Mercedes Holdings Pty Ltd & Ors v KPMG & Ors – Federal Court Proceedings NSD324/2009
(‘Class Action’)
A hearing of the class action took place on Wednesday 16 December 2009 and Friday 18 December 2009
before Justice Perram in the Federal Court in Sydney.
The Court was unable to deal with the Notice of Motion filed by the former responsible entity seeking to
have the former responsible entity (currently the Third Respondent) discontinued as a party to the class
action due to timing restrictions.
As the Federal Court year has now ended, the Notice of Motion will be heard on a date to be fixed in
February 2010.
Further updates will be provided as the matter progresses.
Premium Income Fund