Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Rocky1, I feel the same way about the NSX. I was looking at the NSX site today and there’s hardly any activity, it’s depressing.

I’m assuming Jenny has a huge pile of redemption requests and this is the only way she knows how to deal with them. I’m sure she’s got more requests for redemption than she has liquid assets. So what is she suppose to do? Sell assets, go into debt or list the fund?

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

If I were totally confident in the new managers of PIF, I would consider withdrawing my redemption requests for a year or longer. In my case, it's not the capital that I need urgently but the recommencement of distributions. There may be others in a similar situation. Remember Northern Rock in the UK - the bank was stormed, but once solid guarantees were in place, the crowd quickly dispersed. Where PIF is concerned, I would above all consider the track record of the "team" making future investment decisions on my behalf.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

NSX website (http://www.nsxa.com.au/shareholder_default.asp) states "It now has over 90 entities listed and a combined market capitalisation exceeding $800 million." Possibly only 61 entities worth $693M now.

If PIF lists at full value of $690M, it will all but DOUBLE the capitalisation of the exchange. "BIG fish in a small pond" ... more like a behemoth.

I have no idea if this is necessarily a bad thing. Either way, the NSX Ltd shareholders must be licking their lips in anticipation.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

iamspeed said:

If the presentation isn't posted on website on the 7th, whoever attends the Brisbance forum should post a copy of any handouts (am I too hopeful) on this forum??

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Hi All,

Not sure if anyone has volunteered, but I’ll scan any handouts from the Brisbane update and post on the forum on the 7th.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hello to all,
I have been following these threads since early June, and many good suggestions and wise words have been proffered, regarding what we should do to restore the our PIF to its' functional purpose, under the conditions of the original PDS rules that we signed under. We presently find ourselves far from that position. It seems many of us, including myself, rather than withdrawing all of our units, would be happy just to have the fund paying dividends to live on again. Of course, for varying reasons, some require full withdrawal, to achieve their original investment purpose. The relative proportions of these two factors, are not as yet known, either to us, or JH, who for the most part, I think, is actually trying to do the best thing to suit everybody. As JH has already stated, WC has been inundated with "WITHDRAWALS," but no one saying, "Please keep my money, just stand the fund up again." I feel sure that this condition has strongly influenced some of her decisions of action.
It is my vehement opinion, that under NO circumstances, must this Fund be listed on the NSX. This exchange is the "Nursing Home" for frail and fading shares, with considerably far less movement than its' human counterpart.
Living on the Sunshine Coast, Qld., places me among the first to attend the opening meeting in Brisbane, hopefully Communique and DoraNBoots, will come up also, instead of waiting for the Gold coast one.
Somehow though, we have to find out, even if only in rough proportions, those wanting OUT and those willing to stay in, and possibly the best way to do this, would be through the meetings, by requesting JH to generate a letter of "enquiry and options," to be sent to all unitholders, filled in, and returned. This information would surely be valuable to assist in the actions to be taken.
I would be glad to hear any thoughts on this matter, from anyone.
Good Luck to us all!

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

2CentsWorth said:

Hello to all,
I have been following these threads since early June, and many good suggestions and wise words have been proffered, regarding what we should do to restore the our PIF to its' functional purpose, under the conditions of the original PDS rules that we signed under. We presently find ourselves far from that position. It seems many of us, including myself, rather than withdrawing all of our units, would be happy just to have the fund paying dividends to live on again. Of course, for varying reasons, some require full withdrawal, to achieve their original investment purpose. The relative proportions of these two factors, are not as yet known, either to us, or JH, who for the most part, I think, is actually trying to do the best thing to suit everybody. As JH has already stated, WC has been inundated with "WITHDRAWALS," but no one saying, "Please keep my money, just stand the fund up again." I feel sure that this condition has strongly influenced some of her decisions of action.
It is my vehement opinion, that under NO circumstances, must this Fund be listed on the NSX. This exchange is the "Nursing Home" for frail and fading shares, with considerably far less movement than its' human counterpart.
Living on the Sunshine Coast, Qld., places me among the first to attend the opening meeting in Brisbane, hopefully Communique and DoraNBoots, will come up also, instead of waiting for the Gold coast one.
Somehow though, we have to find out, even if only in rough proportions, those wanting OUT and those willing to stay in, and possibly the best way to do this, would be through the meetings, by requesting JH to generate a letter of "enquiry and options," to be sent to all unitholders, filled in, and returned. This information would surely be valuable to assist in the actions to be taken.
I would be glad to hear any thoughts on this matter, from anyone.
Good Luck to us all!

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Excellent post 2centsworth. I have not put in a redemption form to date.If the general concensus of opinion is that investors would be prepared to wait a couple of years before considering to withdraw capital providing WC can give a projected indication of unit price after that time, then why waste money listing the PIF fund on the NSX? If WC resumes distibutions and they would have to be equal to current bank interest at the minimum (8.5%plus)I think most investors would accept that. People wishing to take redemptions prior to this could be offered an out if they accept a below unit value so as to not jeopardise existing unfinished projects within the fund thereby offering longtermers a bonus incentive to stay with the Fund.If the PIF survives the next two years and remains a going concern reassess the options of listing on the sharemarket then, but on the ASX, not some obscure unheard of stock exchange. The fund is currently surrounded by negative publicity at the moment, there will have to be some favourable press and some positive results before it is considered a worthwhile investment in any shape or form.Other opinions welcome. Regards, Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

This quote by Theodore Roosevelt in a speech at the Sorbonne (1910) titled "Citizenship in a Republic" is on the home page header of the new Wellington PIF website and it is also on the main Wellington Capital site:

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face in marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

I'm not sure of the relevance of the quote in relation to the future of the PIF?

However after reading several recent posts in this thread I am sure that our relationship with our new RE is evolving, and with the right pressure from the PIF Action Group we may yet see a reasonable outcome over time.

This situation reminds me of that famous quote by Winston Churchill - but first some background: The triumvirate forces (Britain, Russia and the US) were advancing on Berlin at the end of World War 2. Russian Premier Joseph Stalin was becoming extremely sceptical of the Americans who he saw as moving in for an unequal share of the German assets. Stalin asked Churchill if the Americans could be trusted and Churchill famously replied:

You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing ... AFTER THEY HAVE EXHAUSTED ALL OTHER ALTERNATIVES

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

We have several mid-sized investments in the PIF, the maximum investment term being two years. Around Dec./Jan last, a couple of them came up for rolling over or redemption; we opted to roll over, not being aware at that stage that the proverbial was about to hit the fan. We assumed that our investments had been rolled over, but when in March we visited the MFS (as it then was) office in Southport, we were told that as the PDS had been withdrawn, the fund was legally not able to either roll-over existing investments, or accept new ones, and those particular investments had been listed for redemption (Thanks for telling us!). We have since had a couple more mature, and likewise have been asked to fill out redemption requests, being told this was our only choice, and join the 360 day queue.
To my knowledge, maximum investment term with the fund is two years. Presumably all investors in due course will be asked to file redemption requests when their funds mature. Presumably also, 360 days is the maximum length of time the fund is legally able to take to refund investments.
It would appear then, that by the end of 2009 or thereabouts, the fund will have 100% redemption requests, and no option but to pay out, the first payouts being early 2009. The result of this will more than likely be insolvency, which will precipitate the winding-up of the fund, unless JH can think of a better option.
This is the dilemma that she faces, or any RE come to that, as I see it.
Unless the fund can be put back on its feet, and operate under a viable PDS, there are legal restraints which the RE face. This is why she is pushing for the NSX listing.
I'm not suggesting this is a good thing, but does the above make sense? I'm only a simple printer, not a money whizz. Some enlightenment please?

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

As stated I met with our lawyer on Friday. She advised we need to keep growing because as a group we really do have power in numbers to protect our rights and keep the managers of our funds as honest and transparent as possible and really have a say in what our options are. I have met many people in my business life, and believe that we are very lucky to have this real pro on our side. She specialises in managed investments gone wrong..I think we qualify.
She has requested some documents, I have in turn requested the following from WC, but if anyone can help that’s fine too:
1. Custody agreement with Perpetual Nominees Limited
2. Registry services agreement with PNL
3. Annual and half yearly financial statements
4. Copy of current / most recent target rates of return
5. Compliance plan
6. Copy of member’s register
7. The 4 modifications to the constitution that was lodged with ASIC on 24oct06. The 4 mods being on 19jun07, 5jul07, 28mar08, 3jun08.
I asked her if she could be the person that we nominate for power of attorney (POT), she said she would provided one other investor was to have POT as well. We really need this to save getting 100 signatures everytime we try to get something done.
Once she gets the client register, she will then be able to contact all clients. Let’s just say this is a major law firm and then she will give us a price for legal services based on what info is given on the direction JH wants to go and if that’s the way we as investors want to go to benefit us the most. Account details I guess will be provided and we will be asked to tip in!
She will be at the Sydney WC investor forum. My suggestion is we all wear our PIF logo and maybe have a gathering after the forum on the 9th of July, there is no real point at this stage of having a meeting as we need to here JH vision of where she believes the fund should go, then once we know what we are up against and what our true position is (not just speculation), we can then plan our moves and start having a direction2 and really start things rolling.
I spoke to another investor on Friday that we have a long history (10 years ago we were involved in another investment gone wrong – which luckily we managed a really good outcome and got all our money due to a smaller AG situation..so yes they do work!) and he also agreed that a wind up of the fund was the way to go. Orderly of course, we get redemption of funds as loans are paid out, assets are sold and investments mature over time and be paid a return based on interest coming in and investment returns on maturity etc.
It would be good if JH can provide that orderly wind up and get us a high unit value back, she would be paid a fee and even offered bonuses if she can get beyond a certain targeted unit value as an incentive. If that is not JH vision, and goes against that of the majority of investors, perhaps a liquidator like PWC who would know the exact health of the Fund as they are still doing the assessment / audit would also be a suitable candidate.
JH will pull the “but I can get you the callable facility” card. Well then let’s see how independent of Chris Scott she really is and see how much of the $50m she can secure for us AND if she really is willing to pursue legally MFS entities and former board to retrieve funds and possible damages through incompetence, professional indemnity insurance on policy claims, as I am sure our funds have been invested in MFS entities that do not conform to the constitution of the fund and lack of disclosure to investors of those dubious investments. Time will tell indeed. See you at the forums

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi All,
As per the financials of the MFS PIF fund dated the 31 December 2007,
below are investments with related parties of the MFS PIF.
The independence of the auditors was not compromised.
$ 000
1.MFS Living and Leasure Group $57,489
2.MFS Pacific Finance LTD $23,586
3.MFS Causeway Private Debt opportunties Fund $23,180

Further to the above the RE of the PIF have also invested our funds in what they term equity securites which are investments in the following related entities.
$000
1.MFS Living and Leasure Group $ 5,906
2.MFS Diversified Group $34,469
3.MFS Blue Sky Development Trust $ 2,265
4.MFS Property Trust no.7 $ 1,056
5.MFS Maximum Yield Fund $85,000
--------------
Total exposure of the PIF to MFS/Ocv $232 ,951 ,000.00

This amount was as 31 December 2007.
The SF will not cover a Quarter of this exposure.
I would strongly suggest that we look at appointing solicitors to act for us asap.
Should it also be proved that breeches to the constitution have occurred we should persue the RE board and trustees in the criminal courts.
Could someone please assist me in obtaining the constitution of the PIF.

erniel:

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

erniel said:

Hi All,
As per the financials of the MFS PIF fund dated the 31 December 2007,
below are investments with related parties of the MFS PIF.
The independence of the auditors was not compromised.
$ 000
1.MFS Living and Leasure Group $57,489
2.MFS Pacific Finance LTD $23,586
3.MFS Causeway Private Debt opportunties Fund $23,180

Further to the above the RE of the PIF have also invested our funds in what they term equity securites which are investments in the following related entities.
$000
1.MFS Living and Leasure Group $ 5,906
2.MFS Diversified Group $34,469
3.MFS Blue Sky Development Trust $ 2,265
4.MFS Property Trust no.7 $ 1,056
5.MFS Maximum Yield Fund $85,000
--------------
Total exposure of the PIF to MFS/Ocv $232 ,951 ,000.00

This amount was as 31 December 2007.
The SF will not cover a Quarter of this exposure.
I would strongly suggest that we look at appointing solicitors to act for us asap.
Should it also be proved that breeches to the constitution have occurred we should persue the RE board and trustees in the criminal courts.
Could someone please assist me in obtaining the constitution of the PIF.

erniel:

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Thanks for these figures Erniel, I always suspected that the $200 million owed to the RBOS was money borrowed against the assets of the PIF to prop up MFS/OCV related entities/subsiduaries.OK so I was out about $33million. It also exceeds the 20% Fund Gearing Level.There is definitely grounds for criminal misconduct against the previous MFS/OCVboard members and the PIFRE. I will make sure ASIC receives these figures to add to their growing pile of complaints. Regards, Seamisty

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks Seamisty, Erniel, Javier, pixierich, Marcom, 2centsworth, for your recent posts - you can feel the serious level increase a notch.

This might be a good time to make a call for those reading this forum to register for our local PIF Action Groups meetings , in particular, for forum reader PIF investors in the following areas:

Brisbane (still to report - a late start) email breaker at: breaker1@aapt.net.au

Newcastle (coming along fine, but could do with a few more) email breaker at: breaker1@aapt.net.au

Port MacQuarie (NSW) email breaker at: breaker1@aapt.net.au

Sydney, Melbourne and Gold Coast appear to be doing doing well.

For those who are in WA and Adelaide (SA) and want to join the AG, please advise? If we have trouble organising a local AG meeting group at these, because of the tyranny of distance - you can always feel at home by contacting fellow AG members there by email (or phone if given). I have AG contacts at these areas.

PS Emailing me first, as above, will allow entry in the AG central data base and then forwarding on to AG local reps, if desired.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi to all

We also had no other option but to fill out the redemption form this month.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Javier,

Thanks so much for your time with the lawyer! It’s very encouraging. I agree (with my limited knowledge at this point) that an orderly windup of the fund is much better than listing on the NSX.

Could you let us know exactly what powers would be handed over to the power of attorney? And what method the POT will use to make decisions? Will they use their discretion or consult the group?

Regards,
Dora.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

erniel said:

Hi All,
As per the financials of the MFS PIF fund dated the 31 December 2007,
below are investments with related parties of the MFS PIF.
The independence of the auditors was not compromised.
$ 000
1.MFS Living and Leasure Group $57,489
2.MFS Pacific Finance LTD $23,586
3.MFS Causeway Private Debt opportunties Fund $23,180

Further to the above the RE of the PIF have also invested our funds in what they term equity securites which are investments in the following related entities.
$000
1.MFS Living and Leasure Group $ 5,906
2.MFS Diversified Group $34,469
3.MFS Blue Sky Development Trust $ 2,265
4.MFS Property Trust no.7 $ 1,056
5.MFS Maximum Yield Fund $85,000
--------------
Total exposure of the PIF to MFS/Ocv $232 ,951 ,000.00

This amount was as 31 December 2007.
The SF will not cover a Quarter of this exposure.
I would strongly suggest that we look at appointing solicitors to act for us asap.
Should it also be proved that breeches to the constitution have occurred we should persue the RE board and trustees in the criminal courts.
Could someone please assist me in obtaining the constitution of the PIF.

erniel:

Click to expand...

Of the above list we know what most of them entail (not that it makes it ok). Causeway is a bit of a mystery but we are told good people running it blah blah blah. What about the MFS Maximum Yield Fund? Anyone been told anything or have any ideas?

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Several people have suggested that we have a leaflet/brochure to hand out at the Forums. Maybe one uniform to all states would be good. I have a contact in Tasmania (a PIF investor) who would be willing to run off a couple of hundred for Melbourne....if someone would volunteer to put a brochure together for him.

To all Melbourne investors: there seems to be a drift towards having a meeting straight after the Forum if necessary. So keep some extra time there up your sleeve.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi fellow Unit holders and AG members.

You are all doing a great job and collectively we will be a force to be reckoned with.

It is my belief that we should forge ahead as quickly as possible to get an EGM, regardless of what takes place as these so call meetings which will be held to tell us what they are going to do.

We should ensure that "OUR FUND" does not get listed on the NSX. You can tell now that the Unit price on this exchange will drop dramatically in value and that will become the Unit price of our investment.

I appreciate all that is being done by Breaker1 and all you other kind people and united we stand, divided we will fall.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi All,

To the Sydney Investors and AG members

I’ve been informed that the Coogee Bowling Club who were recently put into receivership partly due to the MFS/Octaviar Premium income fund, are kindly allowing us to use their club as a meeting place if we need to hold meetings.

Hopefully this might be a good location and suits anyone interested if its needed

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Coogee Bowling Club sounds excellent and will probably attract a good turnup of club members who are indirectly affected.

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Just to let you know, I got my letter from Jenny today, inviting me to the forum meetings

Trust everyones getting theirs?

BTW - You only have till June 30th to register ("Please RSVP by 30th June")
You can register by fax to 1300 854 893 or by reply envelope.
Considering the notoriously slow mail between QLD & NSW, I feel WC should cut a bit of slack for the short notice RSVP date - way to late for this RSVP date. I just got mine today and its already 23/06/08.

Further, I think we should be able to scan the "Registration Form" with our investor details and date / venue chosen and then, email it back - will follow this up with WC.

It comes with a PIF update June 2008 which really doesn't tell us much we don't know.

Under "How can I get my money out" - only the NSX is mentioned, NOT any starting of quartely payments via the PIF, at a later date, as I was advised. This maybe just those who want all their money out immediately. Need to verify this, either before the meetings or at the meetings. I was sure I did verify it - perhaps Jenny will mention the other quarterly option at the forum.