Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[Juan Mortyme]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I said when I tried to research the loan the only connection I could find was with MFS diversified. Can't you read? Obviously the PIF does have a large exposure to the Raptis Group.

Keep your cool mate. This is bordering on becoming a personal attack. You seemed to agree with the post by Maverick where he was told that there was "NO direct exposure".
I just asked for an explanation/clarification as did Goldfinger's post #2693.

It seems some people love criticizing the media but they don't bother to check their own facts. I'm sure the media has greater exposure for incorrect reporting than some poster on a forum.

 

[Juan Mortyme]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Just wondering:

If Fortress are bringing in the receivers for the $20mill they're owed by OCV, why doesn't JH do the same for the amounts that PIF are owed?

 

[marcom]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Questions

1) When Denis Campbell sent his recent letter to PIF unit holders, was it to all unit holders or just to those who had substantially holdings?

2) If the latter, would this be in breech of privacy laws ie. did the list of unit holders he obtained also contain information other than the unit holders' addresses, eg. number of units held?

Please, would some legal eagle be able to explain any legal implications? Just wondering....

Rance

Rance please see my posts 2610 2648 2666 2673

 

[Rance]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Rance please see my posts 2610 2648 2666 2673

Thanks Marcom. I reread your posts with increased interest.

So let's have a straw poll. Who on this forum hasn't received Dennis Chapman's letter of 30 August 2008? (Sorry Dennis, I didn't write your name correctly in my last post.)

Rance

 

[Jadel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Rance Please read this post it was written several weeks ago

TPIF Holder

Of course you are not less important than other investors mate

Believe me if we could have written to all 10300 unit holders we would have done so

We are certainly more than prepared to email you our voting forms to your good self or anybody else on this Forum that requests one

I will not go into the full story with you here but am prepared to do so privately with you

Certain people reliably informed us that Jenny Hutson was prepared to offer us a fair and eqitable Redemption plan after the fund had stabilised over a three to five year period ,thinking and that JH would surely listen to what was a very reasonable plan to at least give older investors some of their money back at Net Tangible Asset value we pulled out of a crucial meeting with our Solicitor at the last minute several weeks prior to this date

What we got was an insult to the intelligence 5% or the first 10000 units
that is miniscule JH does not intend to make any compromises to anybody

Had that meeting taken place we would not be in a last ditch effort to inform investors of their democratic rights and the one sided plan that will almost certainly give JH control of the fund in perpetuity regardless of wether or not you vote no for option 3

Please understand that hidden in the Constitution is an amendment that is cunningly contrived to make it almost imposible to remove WC if you vote for option 1

 

[marcom]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thanks Marcom. I reread your posts with increased interest.

So let's have a straw poll. Who on this forum hasn't received Dennis Chapman's letter of 30 August 2008? (Sorry Dennis, I didn't write your name correctly in my last post.)

Rance

I an glad that Jadel has reposted his post 2305 of 5 September as it contains a very important statement:

"Believe me if we could have written to all 10300 unit holders we would have done so".

Then when you combine this with media statements by PIFI:

Abstracted from The Australian Financial Review

"The Premium Income Fund action group urged the fund's top 3,000 investors to reject a rescue plan on 4 September 2008. The action group said investors would benefit from the sale of the fund's assets more than a listing on the National Stock Exchange"

You can see that Dennis Chapman and others have been able to single out the top 3000 PIF investors from the register provided to someone. These people obviously know how much we each have invested in the fund and I am not one bit happy about that from a PRIVACY point of view. How would you like others knowing your bank account details and balance!

Who has made this blunder WC or Perpetual?

Who has this copy of the register and what other illegal uses will this information be used for?

 

[CableGuy]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

People this isn’t rocket science. The only part open for interpretation is section 177 (1a). So talk to ASIC or Jenny or get a lawyer and stop speculating.

CORPORATIONS ACT 2001 - SECT 173
Right to get copies
(3) The company or scheme must give a person a copy of the register (or a part of the register) within 7 days if the person:
(a) asks for the copy; and
(b) pays any fee (up to the prescribed amount) required by the company or scheme.

CORPORATIONS ACT 2001 - SECT 169
Register of members
General requirements
(1) The register of members must contain the following information about each member:
(a) the member's name and address;
(b) the date on which the entry of the member's name in the register is made.

Registered schemes
(6A) The register of a registered scheme must also show:
(a) the date on which every issue of interests takes place; and
(b) the number of interests in each issue; and
(c) the interests held by each member; and
(d) the class of interests; and
(e) the amount paid, or agreed to be considered as paid, on the interests.

CORPORATIONS ACT 2001 - SECT 177
Use of information on registers
(1) A person must not:
(a) use information about a person obtained from a register kept under this Chapter to contact or send material to the person; or
(b) disclose information of that kind knowing that the information is likely to be used to contact or send material to the person.
Note: An example of using information to send material to a person is putting a person's name and address on a mailing list for advertising material.

(1A) Subsection (1) does not apply if the use or disclosure of the information is:
(a) relevant to the holding of the interests recorded in the register or the exercise of the rights attaching to them; or
(b) approved by the company or scheme.

We know a legal opinion was given so I’m sure things were checked out by a lawyer and if perhaps you can get them on a technicality I’m sure it’d be money well spent chasing a fellow investor who is doing it tough and probably tougher than you as it seems this guy isn’t into JH’s plan of returning value over a 10 year time frame. I’d say if you haven’t yet launched legal action against the people you say have stolen your money then you should stop pretending to take legal action against a guy that sent you a letter about your investment.

-----
"I forgive you. I only hope my neurologist will feel the same." - The CableGuy

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Article in The Age yesterday...

Tiny exchanges have a quiet day or two
http://www.theage.com.au/news/busin...uiet-day-or-two/2005/09/13/1126377313349.html

Now folks i hope you all read about the NSX that Dora posted And just what has GD been saying since joining the Forum Well i warned you all / Dane //

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Seamisty, according to your earlier post this morning...JH said in her interview yesterday the PIF fund is worth $413m....that was from yesterday...so to me thats what it is worth...or is she telling fibs?

Hi Sugar, Caroline from WC just rang me in regard to your enquiry which I fowarded on your behalf. The Total assets of the PIF are valued at $413.747million, less liabilities, the Nett assets are valued at $341.174 milion =45cents per unit. Hope this helps and JH is not too busy entertaining ASIC so she can get on and reduce the liabilities. Regards, Seamisty

 

[Jadel]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Thank you Cable Guy for spelling out the facts so clearly to Marcom



Marcom

You would make a good fencer mate you really would in fact I think you should take up the sport

I can see you are desperately searching for an opening to deliver the final lunge

Let me tell you a little bed time story

Many years ago I invested a significant amount of money in a non listed Property Trust called Landmark at an opening price of $1 .00

Then as know the trust was financially ruined by embezzlement and fraud

Guess who took over that fund none other than you guessed it KING and Adams at MFS

They then proceeded gut and devalue the assets of the Fund further until they were worth only 30% of their original value and list on the Stock Exchange again at $1.00 (Story beginning to sound familiar )

That stock is now called GPM and after 7 years it is worth about 20 cents

(So I other words the original investment is now worth about one fifth of 30 cents =6 cents )


To cut a long story short in righteous indignation I requested the registration list of investors determined to sue everybody I could lay my hands on .

Now I sill have that investors list somewhere I accidently came across it a few weeks ago , guess what on that list is the value of each persons holding

It is standard practice to print that information mate when lists like this are given out .

Of course I was never ever able to sue king and Adams then as now they were just to slippery

In regard to your circumstances I feel sorry for you mate i really do ,


if it is any consolation I and my wife borrowed a second mortgage against my house to invest in PIF to help with my daughters education .Both she and we are now doing things the hard way

Good Luck

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

This wretched period since January has confirmed that jumping to conclusions can be a useless act when it comes to PIF's future. There's never a shortage of twists and turns in this saga. I hope that the hearing on Wednesday leads to a favourable outcome for us investors. And I hope that those who say that distributions can recommence whatever the decision are correct. Our remaining money has been locked away idle for far too long, so the two parties had better employ the art of compromise and serve the interests of the unit holders who want common sense and justice to prevail. Is that asking too much?

 

[CableGuy]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Sugar, Caroline from WC just rang me in regard to your enquiry which I fowarded on your behalf. The Total assets of the PIF are valued at $413.747million, less liabilities, the Nett assets are valued at $341.174 milion =45cents per unit. Hope this helps and JH is not too busy entertaining ASIC so she can get on and reduce the liabilities. Regards, Seamisty

The figures Seamisty has provided are 3.5 months old. These figures can be found in the July forum handout and are dated the 31st May 2008. At that time the bank loan was $70M. The bank debt was supposed to have been cleared by the end of last month (August). WC should be providing everyone with up to date figures. Keep in mind that figures provided to date are unaudited!

-----
"Free cable is the ultimate aphrodisiac."

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

The figures Seamisty has provided are 3.5 months old. These figures can be found in the July forum handout and are dated the 31st May 2008. At that time the bank loan was $70M. The bank debt was supposed to have been cleared by the end of last month (August) freeing the fund to recommence distributions. WC should be providing everyone with up to date figures.

-----
"Free cable is the ultimate aphrodisiac."

Well I suggest Cableguy, if you are not happy with those figures, you call them, tell them you are not happy and you want the latest fully audited figures, including the latest liabilities, all of which need to be signed off on. Then you might like to post the information on here. Or might you find posting something helpful for a change to much of a chore? Seamisty

 

[Juan Mortyme]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Complete Supreme Court Ruling found here:

 

[Juan Mortyme]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

From the 2007 MFS Annual Report, I note that in the list of substantial shareholders (p. 94), Michael King and Phil Adams held over 60million shares between them with the bulk via 4 companies, 2 of which are :
Black Teak Pty Ltd
Moonlight Australia Pty Ltd.

By looking at the list of cases appearing before the Queensland Supreme Court tomorrow (17th Sept 2008) [ http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/practice/lawlist/Brisbane.htm ], what a shock to see that Black Teak and Moonlight are scheduled to face Justice Philip McMurdo in cases versus BT Securities Limited and to be followed shortly after by Wellington Investment Management Limited.

Should be an exciting day in Court 5, Level 1 of the Supreme Court tomorrow.
Wonder if the paths of MK and JH will cross?

 

[sugar3157]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

From the 2007 MFS Annual Report, I note that in the list of substantial shareholders (p. 94), Michael King and Phil Adams held over 60million shares between them with the bulk via 4 companies, 2 of which are :
Black Teak Pty Ltd
Moonlight Australia Pty Ltd.

By looking at the list of cases appearing before the Queensland Supreme Court tomorrow (17th Sept 2008) [ http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/practice/lawlist/Brisbane.htm ], what a shock to see that Black Teak and Moonlight are scheduled to face Justice Philip McMurdo in cases versus BT Securities Limited and to be followed shortly after by Wellington Investment Management Limited.

Should be an exciting day in Court 5, Level 1 of the Supreme Court tomorrow.
Wonder if the paths of MK and JH will cross?

what does this mean?

 

[sugar3157]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

after reading the logs on the forum tonight...I am at a loss as to understand how these people (KING etc) can keep ripping people off time and time again...
where is our justice system?
In my day I was taught ...
If Peter robbed Paul...Peter had to give Paul his money back...
and then Peter went to JAIL!!!
why is this not happening now?

 

[Juan Mortyme]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

what does this mean?

Not sure.

About 3 months ago there was a case of the administrator for Lift Capital trying to get money from King and Adams (Black Teak) -- about $13 million. Had something to do with margin lending.
Not sure if this is for something similar, but it's odd that Black Teak has to appear at the Supreme Court on the same day that Wellington is scheduled to appear.

Maybe the QUT "rent-a-crowd" students can go there? LOL

Maybe ASIC can round them all up? LOL. On no - I'm probably out of line.

 

[Juan Mortyme]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Place your bets.

--------------------------------------------------

Administrator says Octavair mays still be saved
Article from: The Courier-Mail

by Anthony Marx

September 17, 2008 12:00am

THERE is a chance Octaviar may be revived and trade again, an administrator of the failed finance and tourism group said yesterday.

Deloitte corporate reorganisation partner John Greig said creditors owed more than $1 billion would ultimately have to decide the fate of the Gold Coast company previously known as MFS.

"I think it can be saved but the real answer to that is that the company is in the hands of its creditors. They're the ones who will determine the future of the company," Mr Greig said.

"What I do is express an opinion in a report to say what I think might be in the best interests of creditors. Ultimately it's up to them."

Mr Greig said it was too early to know how much creditors might be able to salvage from the company, which collapsed at the weekend after an eight-month battle to survive.

But he said a stillborn Octaviar offer of 22.5c on the dollar made in July might form the basis of a deed of company arrangement to allow a restructuring of the business.

Mr Greig would not comment on Octaviar's warning earlier this year that liquidation would deliver just 13.9c on the dollar, or on what options he would be recommending.

Creditors will hold their first meeting at 10:30am next Wednesday at the Deloitte offices in central Brisbane.

The Octaviar administration may be complicated by legal action from creditor Challenger Managed Investments, which had this week's planned hearing into $140 million owing in bonds and notes pushed back to December in the NSW Supreme Court.

------------END-------------

 

[Duped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

after reading the logs on the forum tonight...I am at a loss as to understand how these people (KING etc) can keep ripping people off time and time again...
where is our justice system?
In my day I was taught ...
If Peter robbed Paul...Peter had to give Paul his money back...
and then Peter went to JAIL!!!
why is this not happening now?

On 20-01 last night we were reminded of Alan Bond. Lost $1.8B of his investors $. Paying back 1c in the $. Now he's back on the BRW rich list at about $270m.

King was just the next iteration of this ever evolving species. Financial Advisor's were just not competent to identify the house or cards - so King flourished.