Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Do we hear you correctly GD???

As I once said people only believe in WHAT they want to believe in Weather its true or not /////////

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Re: ASIC ----



Seamisty, did WC tell you exactly what ASIC were scrutinizing? You say that the "whole explanatory memorandum had to be approved by ASIC before it was released". Did WC tell you whether it was approved? :headshake Judging from ASIC's request from the intervention of the Qld Supreme Court, I assume not.

I was told ASIC had to approve the explanatory memorandum before it could be signed off as the structure of the Fund had changed. I wrote this down at the time, that is why I am astonished to hear they are intervening now.In another conversation I had with WC I have written down 'ASIC is watching very closely and in constant contact with WC' .Will Wednesdays shenanigans just be a token time wasting effort so the media can report how ASIC has intervened on behalf of the 10,600 desperate investors just in time to make matters worse? Seamisty

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Daryl Passmore

September 14, 2008 12:00am

FALLEN corporate chief Michael King is riding high as thousands of his backers wait to find out how much they have lost of their investments.

The co-founder of MFS, renamed Octaviar, is taking part in the prestigious Mercedes-Benz polo tournament near Beaudesert today.
But while the 43-year-old yesterday enjoyed the sport of the mega-rich – where games are divided into chukkas and spectators eat cucumber sandwiches – thousands of people who poured money into his Gold Coast-based financial services firm are nervously awaiting the result of a court case to decide its future.
Many could get less than 20 ¢ back for every dollar they invested in MFS/Octaviar if the company, which once had more than $1 billion, in assets is liquidated.
Queensland Supreme Court judge Philip McMurdo will tomorrow rule on whether to place Octaviar in liquidation or allow the company to appoint its own administrators.
The Public Trustee of Queensland is seeking an immediate winding up of the firm which owes about $350 million to more than 500 noteholders it is representing.
But Justice McMurdo indicated in court on Friday that he was leaning towards Octaviar's administration proposal, which would offer creditors the choice of an immediate cash payout or wait for an anticipated higher payment after the sale of assets.
Other creditors include the Premium Income Fund, previously run by Octaviar and now being managed by Brisbane-based Wellington Investment Management.
Fund head Jenny Hutson said its value had fallen from $755 million to $413 million "plus whatever we can recover from Octaviar".
Premium Income Fund has 10,387 members who invested an average of $72,000. Ms Hutson said they were mostly smaller "mum and dad" investors.
"It's touched thousands of ordinary people," she said.
"The effect has been huge. I've been reduced to tears more often by the plight of these people than over anything in my life before.
"Many of them were much older people and it was their retirement fund. These are good people who have lived good lives.
"I've been dealing with the greatest amount of human despair – people who wonder why they should stay on the planet."
Withdrawals from the Premium Income Fund were frozen in January when trading in MFS shares was suspended.
Ms Hutson launched legal action against Octaviar in the Queensland Supreme Court in June, claiming that $147.5 million from the fund was moved into the parent company as loans without the knowledge of unit-holders.
But corporate watchdog the Australian Securities and Investments Commission last week applied to the Supreme Court to try to stop a meeting of fund members this week at which Ms Hutson will seek a change to its constitution.
Meanwhile, a class action by other Octaviar shareholders is being planned by the Maurice Blackburn legal firm.
Lawyer Ben Slade said the amount involved was $80 million and would increase as more people joined the claim. He would not reveal how many shareholders were involved so far.
"Some of the stories are heart-wrenching," he said.
He had spoken to one couple aged in their 70s who had lost a total of $380,000 through failed investments with Octaviar, Allco and Babcock & Brown Power.
The action would claim "material information" was withheld from shareholders.
The company's value plunged 70 per cent the day Mr King announced the firm needed to raise an additional $500 million to keep going in January.
He and co-founder Phil Adams built fortunes of over $370 million each before the collapse.
Mr King is living on his 283ha polo estate, Elysian Fields in the Gold Coast hinterland. It is expected to sell for up to $30 million.

 

[sugar3157]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Seamisty All...
built fortunes of over $370 ml each....?
What ASIC should be doing is making them give all that money back to us!!!!!
Why can't ASIC do that ?
and throw them in JAIL!!!!
I feel so sick and frustrated...

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Seamisty All...
built fortunes of over $370 ml each....?
What ASIC should be doing is making them give all that money back to us!!!!!
Why can't ASIC do that ?
and throw them in JAIL!!!!
I feel so sick and frustrated...

What can I say sugar, I guess they consider themselves more out of harms way conducting a costly, fruitless exercise like the one they have planned for next week. Makes a mockery out of all our earlier complaints in this regard , but its encouraging to see that they are in fact, still operational, albeit useless. Don't forget folks, they are only conducting this exercise on behalf of a few, let them know how unhappy we are with next weeks fiasco!!! Call 1300 300 630 :cowboy:Seamisty

 

[selciper]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Marcom's observation that the PIFI recent unsolicited mail-out may have breached privacy laws is worth noting.

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

What can I say sugar, I guess they consider themselves more out of harms way conducting a costly, fruitless exercise like the one they have planned for next week. Makes a mockery out of all our earlier complaints in this regard , but its encouraging to see that they are in fact, still operational, albeit useless. Don't forget folks, they are only conducting this exercise on behalf of a few, let them know how unhappy we are with next weeks fiasco!!! Call 1300 300 630 :cowboy:Seamisty

As Dawn Lake used to say / YOU TELLEM LOVE //

 

[2CentsWorth]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

As Dawn Lake used to say / YOU TELLEM LOVE //

Good morning all,

I may well need a "PIE-CHIATRIST" myself GD, after all this lot is finally settled...if ever... a pox on ASIC !!

Cheers

 

[like2ski]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

If theres one thing I've learnt in this whole deceptive debacle. It is that I will never invest money with anyone again regardless of how assuring or bulletproof the PDS is.

I'll give that advice to everyone free.
If people stupidly think that asic will represent the small investors. They are dead wrong
In my dealings with ASIC I've learnt they are are total waste of time and space. ASIC are not regulators or watchdogs but only tend to assume the role of undertaker once the companies have gone sour after continual incessant pleading from Investors. They have the power of transparancy and disclosure for investigation and in living history have not once used them.

Octaviar are the criminals and the management past and present continue to walk free

when it comes to ASIC Its a story of too little too late. Oxygen Theives.

Hi Zixo,
I fully agree with your sentiments and we all have been badly burnt and badly served by our laws or lack of them!! I would add that based on many other experiences as well as MFS/Octaviar/WC we all need to lobby authorities to ensure that "A SYSTEM" is put in place to safeguard investors, who place their trust and hard earned cash in these so called "reputable funds", from these criminals as you aptly call them!!!
It is high time for authorities to act and put an end to these scams.

 

[Joy]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi I am new to the forum. What does everyone think about the resolutions we have been told to vote on this week? I am at a loss as to how this mess occurred, I understand it was originally from the then Directors of MFS borrowing more than they were legally permitted to. I am also at a loss to understand why these Directors have not been held accountable. Why haven't the assets of the Directors been sold or siezed. Did any of us give permission for the Directors of MFS to resign and the fund to be taken over by Octaviar and now Wellington? As Wellington purchased the fund, including all liabilities,(which was stated by Ms Hutson at the Newcastle Forum) I would imagine all liabilities would include redemptions at 100%! If not, why not!! In relation to being listed on NXS, I attended the Newcastle forum and it was very clear that the majority did not want the fund listed and yet it has been organised by Wellington and is ready to trade once the resolution is passed! This does not make sense to me.

 

[Calliope]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

If theres one thing I've learnt in this whole deceptive debacle. It is that I will never invest money with anyone again regardless of how assuring or bulletproof the PDS is..

You know zixo I said the same thing years ago after I was badly bitten by the Estate Mortgage debacle. I guess we never learn.

 

[BootsnAll]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi I am new to the forum. What does everyone think about the resolutions we have been told to vote on this week? I am at a loss as to how this mess occurred, I understand it was originally from the then Directors of MFS borrowing more than they were legally permitted to. I am also at a loss to understand why these Directors have not been held accountable. Why haven't the assets of the Directors been sold or siezed. Did any of us give permission for the Directors of MFS to resign and the fund to be taken over by Octaviar and now Wellington? As Wellington purchased the fund, including all liabilities,(which was stated by Ms Hutson at the Newcastle Forum) I would imagine all liabilities would include redemptions at 100%! If not, why not!! In relation to being listed on NXS, I attended the Newcastle forum and it was very clear that the majority did not want the fund listed and yet it has been organised by Wellington and is ready to trade once the resolution is passed! This does not make sense to me.

Welcome to the asylum Joy.:bonk:

The best way to acquaint yourself with the whole sorry saga is to pour yourself a glass of wine, sit down at your computer, start about half way in the forum & do some serious reading.

Of the recent posts I recommend 2502,2512,2532,2555,2567,2569,2601,2602.
Also anything from DoranBoots (no relation to me). That lady has a brain, has done a lot of research & makes very good comments, unlike a lot of drivel that has been written, particularly in the past few days.

And may the force be with you - BootsNAll

 

[sugar3157]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi I am new to the forum. What does everyone think about the resolutions we have been told to vote on this week? I am at a loss as to how this mess occurred, I understand it was originally from the then Directors of MFS borrowing more than they were legally permitted to. I am also at a loss to understand why these Directors have not been held accountable. Why haven't the assets of the Directors been sold or siezed. Did any of us give permission for the Directors of MFS to resign and the fund to be taken over by Octaviar and now Wellington? As Wellington purchased the fund, including all liabilities,(which was stated by Ms Hutson at the Newcastle Forum) I would imagine all liabilities would include redemptions at 100%! If not, why not!! In relation to being listed on NXS, I attended the Newcastle forum and it was very clear that the majority did not want the fund listed and yet it has been organised by Wellington and is ready to trade once the resolution is passed! This does not make sense to me.

Hi Joy and welcome,
I too asked the same questions and have never been given a clear intelligent answer....
I do not understand why these people have not been made accountable....
or made give our money back AND thrown in jail!!!
from now on under my bed is where I will keep my money...lol
cheers Sugar

 

[JohnH]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Welcome to the asylum Joy.:bonk:

The best way to acquaint yourself with the whole sorry saga is to pour yourself a glass of wine, sit down at your computer, start about half way in the forum & do some serious reading.

Of the recent posts I recommend 2502,2512,2532,2555,2567,2569,2601,2602.
Also anything from DoranBoots (no relation to me). That lady has a brain, has done a lot of research & makes very good comments, unlike a lot of drivel that has been written, particularly in the past few days.

And may the force be with you - BootsNAll

Hi Joy,

If you just read the posts listed, you will get a very one sided view that does not represent the vast majority of unit holders.

Please also read the positives for giving Wellington a chance, and then make your own decision.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi I am new to the forum. What does everyone think about the resolutions we have been told to vote on this week? I am at a loss as to how this mess occurred, I understand it was originally from the then Directors of MFS borrowing more than they were legally permitted to. I am also at a loss to understand why these Directors have not been held accountable. Why haven't the assets of the Directors been sold or siezed. Did any of us give permission for the Directors of MFS to resign and the fund to be taken over by Octaviar and now Wellington? As Wellington purchased the fund, including all liabilities,(which was stated by Ms Hutson at the Newcastle Forum) I would imagine all liabilities would include redemptions at 100%! If not, why not!! In relation to being listed on NXS, I attended the Newcastle forum and it was very clear that the majority did not want the fund listed and yet it has been organised by Wellington and is ready to trade once the resolution is passed! This does not make sense to me.

Welcome to the forum Joy. The reason WC cannot resume paying redemptions is that the PIF is only currently valued at approx $412million as a going concern as opposed to the original $770million. There are many unfinished projects within the Fund and if these remain incompleted and WC is forced to sell the assets held by the PIF to resume distributions the estimated unit value is 14cents per unit, not your original $1.00 per unit. Seamisty

 

[Smokey68]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

From the previous post:

If the fund is worth $412m and 770m units then each unit is worth $0.535.

Gets better everyday.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

From the previous post:

If the fund is worth $412m and 770m units then each unit is worth $0.535.

Gets better everyday.

That figure was at the 31st May and does not deduct any of the outstanding bank debt. I do not have more recent figures. Seamisty

 

[sugar3157]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Seamisty, according to your earlier post this morning...JH said in her interview yesterday the PIF fund is worth $413m....that was from yesterday...so to me thats what it is worth...or is she telling fibs?

 

[sugar3157]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Daryl Passmore

September 14, 2008 12:00am

FALLEN corporate chief Michael King is riding high as thousands of his backers wait to find out how much they have lost of their investments.

The co-founder of MFS, renamed Octaviar, is taking part in the prestigious Mercedes-Benz polo tournament near Beaudesert today.
But while the 43-year-old yesterday enjoyed the sport of the mega-rich – where games are divided into chukkas and spectators eat cucumber sandwiches – thousands of people who poured money into his Gold Coast-based financial services firm are nervously awaiting the result of a court case to decide its future.
Many could get less than 20 ¢ back for every dollar they invested in MFS/Octaviar if the company, which once had more than $1 billion, in assets is liquidated.
Queensland Supreme Court judge Philip McMurdo will tomorrow rule on whether to place Octaviar in liquidation or allow the company to appoint its own administrators.
The Public Trustee of Queensland is seeking an immediate winding up of the firm which owes about $350 million to more than 500 noteholders it is representing.
But Justice McMurdo indicated in court on Friday that he was leaning towards Octaviar's administration proposal, which would offer creditors the choice of an immediate cash payout or wait for an anticipated higher payment after the sale of assets.
Other creditors include the Premium Income Fund, previously run by Octaviar and now being managed by Brisbane-based Wellington Investment Management.
Fund head Jenny Hutson said its value had fallen from $755 million to $413 million "plus whatever we can recover from Octaviar".
Premium Income Fund has 10,387 members who invested an average of $72,000. Ms Hutson said they were mostly smaller "mum and dad" investors.
"It's touched thousands of ordinary people," she said.
"The effect has been huge. I've been reduced to tears more often by the plight of these people than over anything in my life before.
"Many of them were much older people and it was their retirement fund. These are good people who have lived good lives.
"I've been dealing with the greatest amount of human despair – people who wonder why they should stay on the planet."
Withdrawals from the Premium Income Fund were frozen in January when trading in MFS shares was suspended.
Ms Hutson launched legal action against Octaviar in the Queensland Supreme Court in June, claiming that $147.5 million from the fund was moved into the parent company as loans without the knowledge of unit-holders.
But corporate watchdog the Australian Securities and Investments Commission last week applied to the Supreme Court to try to stop a meeting of fund members this week at which Ms Hutson will seek a change to its constitution.
Meanwhile, a class action by other Octaviar shareholders is being planned by the Maurice Blackburn legal firm.
Lawyer Ben Slade said the amount involved was $80 million and would increase as more people joined the claim. He would not reveal how many shareholders were involved so far.
"Some of the stories are heart-wrenching," he said.
He had spoken to one couple aged in their 70s who had lost a total of $380,000 through failed investments with Octaviar, Allco and Babcock & Brown Power.
The action would claim "material information" was withheld from shareholders.
The company's value plunged 70 per cent the day Mr King announced the firm needed to raise an additional $500 million to keep going in January.
He and co-founder Phil Adams built fortunes of over $370 million each before the collapse.
Mr King is living on his 283ha polo estate, Elysian Fields in the Gold Coast hinterland. It is expected to sell for up to $30 million.

Seamisty this post?

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi Seamisty, according to your earlier post this morning...JH said in her interview yesterday the PIF fund is worth $413m....that was from yesterday...so to me thats what it is worth...or is she telling fibs?

Ok sugar, I couldn't remember where I saw that figure, so looked in the Explanatory Memorandum and it is the same but just as at May31. I hope that is correct and she is not telling fibs! It is less to have to rebuild!!!Seamisty