Wellington Capital PIF/Octaviar (MFS) PIF

[Mutchy]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hello All,

I am not a lawyer and I have not read all the Act but it appears to me in Section 1322 of the Corporations Act that any error in the documentation sent to us as part of the Notice of Meeting is not cause in itself for the meeting to be delayed or prejudiced in any way unless it can be proven in court that a substantial injustice has been done to any member.

Dora: please see your personal messages.

Mutchy

 

[Maverick2802]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

You can whine as much as you want.
People need income again.
It's called Premium Income Fund.
Payouts start October 31 with WC.
When do they start with your RE gd? Oh that's right you haven't come up with one.
My figures are very simple to comprehend. With a depressed market the NTA is 45c, that's fact as that is what CL has accepted.
JH will get it back to $1 in 7 years, that is realistic.
You will then be able to get your cash (if you wish) via ASX, NSX is a very temporary solution based on the fact it was very easy to list quickly as opposed to the more rigid rules of ASX. We need this fund stabilised quickly.
Once credibility established it will be delisted from NSX and ASX trading will commence.
You offer NO solutions, just negative trashing of someone who has not put you in this predicament.
WC will get the gig because they offer a solution and are willing to have a go.
No other company / individual has put their money where their mouth is.

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Sorry GD your figures don't add up - I think you are forgetting that each year you are dealing with a higher figure. Just 10% growth would reach $1 in just under 9 years, and 12% just over 7. ....JH

Look let for get all about the NTA Its what you can get for it on the Exchange And thats what counts PS still waiting for that ASX info /Dane //

 

[great dame]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

You can whine as much as you want.
People need income again.
It's called Premium Income Fund.
Payouts start October 31 with WC.
When do they start with your RE gd? Oh that's right you haven't come up with one.
My figures are very simple to comprehend. With a depressed market the NTA is 45c, that's fact as that is what CL has accepted.
JH will get it back to $1 in 7 years, that is realistic.
You will then be able to get your cash (if you wish) via ASX, NSX is a very temporary solution based on the fact it was very easy to list quickly as opposed to the more rigid rules of ASX. We need this fund stabilised quickly.
Once credibility established it will be delisted from NSX and ASX trading will commence.
You offer NO solutions, just negative trashing of someone who has not put you in this predicament.
WC will get the gig because they offer a solution and are willing to have a go.
No other company / individual has put their money where their mouth is.

In other words what your saying when the value of the fund gets to a$1 you are able to sell your units for a $1 on the exchange Gee i would to believe that But i am sorry it just wont happen /Dane //

 

[newwwtrader]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

You can whine as much as you want.
People need income again.
It's called Premium Income Fund.
Payouts start October 31 with WC.
When do they start with your RE gd? Oh that's right you haven't come up with one.
My figures are very simple to comprehend. With a depressed market the NTA is 45c, that's fact as that is what CL has accepted.
JH will get it back to $1 in 7 years, that is realistic.
You will then be able to get your cash (if you wish) via ASX, NSX is a very temporary solution based on the fact it was very easy to list quickly as opposed to the more rigid rules of ASX. We need this fund stabilised quickly.
Once credibility established it will be delisted from NSX and ASX trading will commence.
You offer NO solutions, just negative trashing of someone who has not put you in this predicament.
WC will get the gig because they offer a solution and are willing to have a go.
No other company / individual has put their money where their mouth is.

This is where WC have in my opinion twisted the facts. If the Fund can afford to pay out in October (if they list on the NSX), then, why can't they pay out in October if people Vote No for Resolution 1.

If it can pay with a yes vote, it can pay with a no vote.

All that is required is a change in the constitution freezing total redemptions for lets say another 180 or 365 days. This would allow it to continue as a going concern, and do what it is designed to do - generate income.

As the NTA slowly rises, people could be allowed to redeem parts of their investment. At least with this method they will not be dictated to by the market forces on the NSX.

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Octaviar Limited
ABN 90 107 863 436
For further information please contact
Investor Relations:
E-mail: mail@octaviar.com.au
Website: www.octaviar.com.au
Telephone: 1300 787 650
SHARE REGISTRY
Computershare Investor Services Pty Ltd
Level 3, 60 Carrington Street
Sydney NSW 2000
ASX Announcement
_______________________
Extension of Noteholder offer
28 August 2008
Listed Notes (ASX code: OCVG)
Representatives of Noteholders, who together hold more than 60% of the listed notes on issue, have
requested that the time period in which the proposal to Noteholders dated 17 July 2008 can be
accepted, be extended. These Noteholders have requested an extension so that their legal and
accounting advisors can complete their investigations and advice regarding that proposal and provide
such advice for their clients’ consideration.
As a consequence Octaviar Investment Notes Limited today announces that the deadline for acceptance
of the proposal to Noteholders will now be 4pm 30 September 2008. Noteholders are encouraged to
contact the investors’ information line on 1300 787 650 with any questions regarding the proposal.
Noteholders are reminded that those wishing to lodge a proxy for the meeting of Noteholders to be held
on Wednesday 3 September 2008 need to lodge their proxy with Computershare by 2pm Tuesday 2
September 2008. Any questions regarding this meeting should be directed to the investors’ information
line on 1300 787 650.
Given the above, the Company considers the appropriate and likely course is that at this meeting of
Wednesday 3 September 2008, Noteholders will resolve to direct the Trustee to seek an adjournment of
the winding up applications in respect of Octaviar Limited and others, presently scheduled for 9 and 10
September 2008, to a date after the revised deadline of 30 September 2008.

 

[Rance]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Gee Rance nice to hear from you Your still kicking ??? JH/WC rigging the votes ??? O perish the thought They would never do that WOULD THEY ?????????????

Yes Doomy, i'm alive and well and absorbing all the advice, opinions and arguments being tossed around on this thread. And i'd like to thank everyone who have contributed; giving me a better appreciation of our situation... Haven't voted yet ... Still absorbing...

Kind regards to all...
Rance

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

God knows, I have learnt an HUGE amount with this whole experience,not the least of which is....how much I have that I don't need materialistically, and how many simple, free pleasures there are out there that I have never noticed before.

I think, before you vote no,no,no....it could be said about JH that it is "better the devil you know, than the devil you don't know".

Well said Mary, I won't need money soon!!! I have been swapping fish for everything!! (Even firewood & wine)Going to be some very dissapointed fish eaters around when my purse holds more than the 'buy one, get one free' meal vouchers at the local pub! Anybody out there want to swap me a pair of size 7 gumboots (without holes) for some snapper or shark LOL!!!! Regards, Seamisty

 

[Iceman]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi all

Have been following thread for sometime but thought it is time I added so comments.

The only money that WC has put up so far is the money paid by OCV to it to run the fund which according to the OCV claim was funds stolen out of the fund anyway.

The claim to grow the fund back to $1.00 makes no sense at all if you take into account that they aim to have a 55% benchmark allocation in cash or commercial loans (no capital growth).

So 45% of PIF must drive the growth which makes required returns on these funds well over 20% per annum to get investment back to $1.00 in time JH promoted.

Either the growth will come out of existing assets values returning which we would get back out of an orderly wind up anyway or the money will be invested in high risk strategies.

Lets hope the Qld meeting leads to an alternative for investors. Reading the information pack its clear that an orderly work out is allowed but sadly this is not in the best interests of the RE and therefore this choice is not given to us.

The fund should be wound up in an orderly fashion (not liquidation) by an RE. For those true believers in WC they can take the 45 cents and invest with WC in a new fund if you think they are such a great fund manager.

 

[Burnt]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi all

Have been following thread for sometime but thought it is time I added so comments.

The only money that WC has put up so far is the money paid by OCV to it to run the fund which according to the OCV claim was funds stolen out of the fund anyway.

The claim to grow the fund back to $1.00 makes no sense at all if you take into account that they aim to have a 55% benchmark allocation in cash or commercial loans (no capital growth).

So 45% of PIF must drive the growth which makes required returns on these funds well over 20% per annum to get investment back to $1.00 in time JH promoted.

Either the growth will come out of existing assets values returning which we would get back out of an orderly wind up anyway or the money will be invested in high risk strategies.

Lets hope the Qld meeting leads to an alternative for investors. Reading the information pack its clear that an orderly work out is allowed but sadly this is not in the best interests of the RE and therefore this choice is not given to us.

The fund should be wound up in an orderly fashion (not liquidation) by an RE. For those true believers in WC they can take the 45 cents and invest with WC in a new fund if you think they are such a great fund manager.

[U]Well said,Iceman - good for you, some people just don't get this message. By the way WC has not paid anything for management rights to the fund. Their payment is not due till June 2009.[/U]
GD - Good on you, you present basic logic.
Maverick2802 - who's whinging - only presenting facts here !! You believe that people in need will be able to cash out on NSX - how sad is this belief - and how generous of you !!!!! Gee 10 to 20c on the dollar.
The option for NSX listing will only benefit WC and their associates -NOT THE OWNERS OF THE FUND !!!!!!!
Newtrader - Well said re your post 2067. This is what people need to understand. We do not have to be subjected to the limited options WC put forward.

Iceman has again summarised the options open to us, as have been put forward previously. I'm so saddened by the number of people willing to roll over and give in !!!!! As I have stated before, I am representing my 87 year old father who served in WWII and spent quite some time in Jap POW camps. The soldiers who did not have the guts to stand up, and who rolled over and gave in DIED!!!! I will fight to the end with him against what he believes is injust. Those of you who are too scared.......I can only feel sorry for you, but spare us your critisism. Sorry but I take it very personally. If you want to believe that your gonna get 6% income each year and 10% + growth, good on you. Those of us that do not believe in this BS........we have as much right as you to express our opinions !!!!!!We will fight for our rights as owners of this fund to PROTECT OUR BEST INTERESTS !!!!!!

 

[Burnt]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hello All,

I am not a lawyer and I have not read all the Act but it appears to me in Section 1322 of the Corporations Act that any error in the documentation sent to us as part of the Notice of Meeting is not cause in itself for the meeting to be delayed or prejudiced in any way unless it can be proven in court that a substantial injustice has been done to any member.

Dora: please see your personal messages.

Mutchy

Hi Mutchy , I think the point of the posts regarding voting issues is to highlight that fact that once again WC has not been 100% truthful and straightforward in what they are saying.

 

[cashstrapped]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I am concerned about what's in the booklet - it's a hard sell and a lot of information is very obscure. There's also a lot of climb down from what was promised earlier, and while there were meetings around the states to sell this idea, the one for voting is only in the Gold Coast.

These are my main concerns, apart from the overall dodgy look of it:

-It seems that, though the 45% was waved around, only a small fraction of units will be bought at this price - and even that may not happen. The divying up process is obscure - but the bit that is clearer, indicates that it is designed to attract a lot of small investors to vote for it, but is unrelated to units.

-The carrot of 3% in payouts is vaguely defined. Presumably that is 1.5 % in October (after the vote) and another 1.5% in December. Then .75% i.e. 3/4 of 1%, four times next year. Then what?

- The major point is that the stock exchange option involves relinquishing all rights to redemption, in exchange for: shares that are not likely to be liquid, especially on this junior stock exchange; the possiblity of what is turning out to be only a very small buyout at 45% - and it may not happen; and for the 3% carrot, but this payout could go ahead anyway- there is no reason it is reliant on this vote.


Why is a freezing of redemptions not being offered, for a further period, with continued trading, preferably in non vested-interest hands, instead of the hurried liquidation fire sale, which - this company says - will raise just 14%.

And is ASIC to be let off this?


This is just from my reading of the booklet and I am happy to be corrected if Ive got any of it wrong. However, this understanding of it, this hard sell, and this railroaded vote (who is counting?), with the stock listing booked for the next day, do not inspire confidence, for me.

 

[Maverick2802]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

No it's 3c per unit by 24 dec then a quarterly payment of a targeted rate of 1.5c per quarter and I have that in writing.

 

[Juan Mortyme]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

.... then a quarterly payment of a targeted rate of 1.5c per quarter and I have that in writing.

Definition of "target" = a desired goal. That's hardly binding even if it is in writing.

 

[DoraNBoots]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

I am concerned about what's in the booklet - it's a hard sell and a lot of information is very obscure. There's also a lot of climb down from what was promised earlier, and while there were meetings around the states to sell this idea, the one for voting is only in the Gold Coast.
....

Hi cashstrapped,
Welcome! Most of us agree with everything you said. A lot of us have raised complaints to ASIC which I encourage you to do as well. Also make sure you let WC know you are not happy. People are working on alternatives as we do not believe that we have to vote for WC's proposal and know that liquidation at 14 cents is just a threat by WC to enable them to put through whatever changes they like. I get the impression you are not near the GC but if you are come alone to the QLD meeting today to find out more.

...
If you would like to consider some serious initiatives on the future of our Fund PLEASE attend the QLD meeting on Saturday .

All Queensland AG members next meeting.

Saturday at 2 pm 30 August 2008.

Beenleigh RSL & Mt Warren Golf Course

13 Bardyn Halliday Dr, Mt Warren Park
Please note that you may be requested to provide your PIF current investor ID number

 

[Sean K]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Please ladies and gents, no more personal attacks.

If I see even the slightest personal insult or taunt, accounts will be suspended.

Cheers,
kennas

 

[Iceman]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi All

Just following on from the projected returns I have tried to make an annual table below of projected position of the fund based on the WC bench mark allocations of our funds and numbers they have provided.

Year 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Opening .45 .41 .44 .47 .51 .55 .60 .67

Distribution -.06 -.06 -.06 -.06 -.06 -.06 - .06 -.06

Income (10% pa on 55%) .02 .02 .02 .03 .03 .03 .03 .04
Growth (25% on 45%) 0 .05 .05 .05 .05 .05 .05 .06

Closing .41 .42 .44 .45 .46 .48 .50 .53

My assumptions are that NTA is 45 cents
We get 6 cents a year paid out to us.
On 55% of our money we get no growth just 10% income
On 45% we get a annual return of 25% income and growth
Growth portion is calculated on closing previous year balance so it does compound.

So based on WC own numbers and benchmarks set out in information booklet and a very generous 25% growth factor on the money they want to invest in growth assets our NTA will remain by year seven 53 cents.

For an ASX listed fund with a clean history currently many are trading below NTA.

Why for the next 7 years is this thing price going to rise above 45 cents through having as a listed fund. WC are not magicians and these are their own numbers although I dont even think they would say they could get 25% so the above numbers would get worse.

Where does the $1.00 come from ?

Their own document if you read it carefully says that an alternative moritorium and work out could be put to unit holders. It just remains very well hidden in how the phrase it.

This would get us 45 cents back in 3 years with some upside if existing asset values improved and OCV claim maximised.

This has to be in investors best interests but it is not in WC best interests as a permanent listed fund adds permanent income for them which adds to WC wealth by 10s of millions.

The only reason you would not vote no no no is if you believe WC that it is their proposal or liquidation which is simply not true.

In fact if you vote no yes no you would get the buy back which given there will be 3 cents available according to WC would allow us to get some money by christmas while either WC agreed or another RE was put in place to conduct orderly realisation and quarterly return of our money.

Its weird but no yes no option does not seem to be considered in WC booklet but I will look again.

Anyway looking forward to comments from others on the above numbers.

 

[Maverick2802]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Hi All

Just following on from the projected returns I have tried to make an annual table below of projected position of the fund based on the WC bench mark allocations of our funds and numbers they have provided.

Year 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Opening .45 .41 .44 .47 .51 .55 .60 .67

Distribution -.06 -.06 -.06 -.06 -.06 -.06 - .06 -.06

Income (10% pa on 55%) .02 .02 .02 .03 .03 .03 .03 .04
Growth (25% on 45%) 0 .05 .05 .05 .05 .05 .05 .06

Closing .41 .42 .44 .45 .46 .48 .50 .53

My assumptions are that NTA is 45 cents
We get 6 cents a year paid out to us.
On 55% of our money we get no growth just 10% income
On 45% we get a annual return of 25% income and growth
Growth portion is calculated on closing previous year balance so it does compound.

So based on WC own numbers and benchmarks set out in information booklet and a very generous 25% growth factor on the money they want to invest in growth assets our NTA will remain by year seven 53 cents.

For an ASX listed fund with a clean history currently many are trading below NTA.

Why for the next 7 years is this thing price going to rise above 45 cents through having as a listed fund. WC are not magicians and these are their own numbers although I dont even think they would say they could get 25% so the above numbers would get worse.

Where does the $1.00 come from ?

Their own document if you read it carefully says that an alternative moritorium and work out could be put to unit holders. It just remains very well hidden in how the phrase it.

This would get us 45 cents back in 3 years with some upside if existing asset values improved and OCV claim maximised.

This has to be in investors best interests but it is not in WC best interests as a permanent listed fund adds permanent income for them which adds to WC wealth by 10s of millions.

The only reason you would not vote no no no is if you believe WC that it is their proposal or liquidation which is simply not true.

In fact if you vote no yes no you would get the buy back which given there will be 3 cents available according to WC would allow us to get some money by christmas while either WC agreed or another RE was put in place to conduct orderly realisation and quarterly return of our money.

Its weird but no yes no option does not seem to be considered in WC booklet but I will look again.

Anyway looking forward to comments from others on the above numbers.

Huh?????

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Iceman, I think you will find a NO YES NO vote is a vote for liquidation!

 

[seamisty]

Re: Octaviar MFS Premium Income Fund PIF

Iceman, The following is taken from page 5 of the explanatory memorandum:::::If the resolution in relation to the proposed constitutional changes is not passed then the Constitution will remain
unchanged. Unless Unitholders in general meeting subsequently approve changes to the Constitution Unitholders will
be entitled to redeem their investment in the Fund at the end of the current 360 day redemption suspension period.
The redemption suspension expires in early 2009. It is the opinion of the current board that the net asset backing per
Unit and therefore the cash payable to Unitholders in those circumstances would be 14 cents per Unit (plus any amount
recovered from MFS). ::::::This refers to resolution 1. A No vote to this means the Fund will be liquidated immediately and proceeds will be distributed to unit holders at an estimated pittance of 14cents per unit!!!!