Wealth Inequality

[Smurf1976]

So, what are you saying about a family earning $100kpa but chooses to send their kid to the local public school? Less caring, less worthy, parents,…than another family in an otherwise identical situation who sends their kid to a high performance private school?

There are good private schools and there are duds. Same with public schools, there are good ones and there are duds.

The notion that private schools are automatically better than public is false in my view. They blatantly skew results via forcing students into certain subjects or even outright rejecting those likely to fail. In contrast, the public system takes the lot, thus dragging down the average of any academic benchmark.

If the student is reasonably bright then they'll be able to achieve good results in either system in my view.

 

[luutzu]

It is interesting how this concept is dismissed before any understanding of what is being dismissed was obtained. Here is a snippet of what universal ownership is:
“Universal owners are asset owners who recognize that their portfolios, well diversified across multiple industries and asset classes, are a slice of the whole economy. The long-term interests of the universal owner, therefore, are linked more to the overall economic performance than to the individual performance of a given asset or industry within the portfolio. Universal owners are adapting their investment strategy to these circumstances”
“In most cases, the work in the area of universal ownership emphasizes on active ownership and engagement strategies”
- universalowner.com
Not quite leaving the corporations alone.

From your James Montier post, what were you, through Montier, advocate? "Stakeholder capitalism", right? We (investors/shareholders) shouldn't focus on shareholder value but on stakeholder value because what's good for the world will ultimately be good for us but what's good for us alone would lead to disaster... something like that?

Yea, I agree with that and so does the entire world but how is it going to be done? As I've said before on the subject... these stakeholder, community welfare, employees safety and benefits... all have been said years ago. It's not new, is it? How's workers' wages and environmental concerns going?

I heard the Great Barrier Reef will be fine when however many millions of tonnes of dredging will be dump on it instead of a safer, more costly, but ultimately more beneficial to the fishes and the corals and maybe the tourists and the economy if they'd just go further out to sea and dump those... but that'd cost more money right? So stakeholders interests? She'd be fine mate.

"universal ownership"... sounds a lot like Communism... .and like Communism, doesn't work very well for the vast majority does it?

So, despite the above, you were happy to use the cloak of Chomsky to declare democracy a farce despite being expressly able to do what he said could not be done. Perhaps you were witnessing a functional democracy in action which knows a bit about optimal resource deployment. To know this and put up an argument pretending that democracy does not exist because such rights are not available is disingenuous, misleading and clearly… farcical.

How was I NOT meeting my "employee", not meeting my representative in Parliament, show that democracy works and Chomsky is wrong?

I wrote up a long letter; point form the issues; made suggestions... and... and I got through the door and meet his secretary behind the counter. I could do the exact same if I want to meet Murdoch or Packer or the CEO of BigFriendlyCorporation Ltd.

They all claim to want to serve the common people like me - universal ownership, democracy and all that; just I was young and foolish and thought politicians would actually sit down and listen to their voters.

---

Stuff like

And, then, when you can’t get hold of these masters of men whether they are government or the puppets of the plutarchs:

Maybe the above is meant to convey that the system is stacked in your favour?
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The context was you suggesting I'm broke or not doing well, not doing something worthwhile... maybe I failed and so I was whinging about the system. So my reply was how do you know I'm not doing well?

Context, like money, I important. It makes an idiot look smart and put a seemingly contradictory statement into its proper place.

Did I say anything about you not doing well in terms of economic welfare? Have I suggested that you might not be doing better than the average member of the population? Anywhere?

Yes you have. Anyone who follow the threads see it.
e.g. In talking about higher education and its funding, you said something like me wanting to use your (larger) tax to pay for these luxuries.

People could read between the line... here, they're right on the line.

If I have stated that everyone who can see difficulty for a portion of the populace is a whining whinger, post it. If not, admit fabrication. I do not think that.

If I have stated that the all outcomes are deterministic based on talent alone, post it or admit barefaced fabrication.
Further, if I have stated that all who are doing it tough are lazy, mediocre, whingers, post it.
Is there a war going on here or something? Truth is the first casualty of war and its total absence here has me wondering for its welfare.

What's my line of argument? Along Reich's right? That people have it tough, that for most people, the system makes it hard for them to earn enough even though they work two or three jobs...

And what did you say of me? Stop whinging; I should go and make change, do something because Penny Wong and Malala did and they didn't know any rich or have any contact but they made it because they're just good.

So was that directed at me specifically or at people in general?

Do I really need to go back and tell you what you actually said?

You’ve met people like me? Quite a few? I very seriously doubt it. You know how people like me think even though people like me would never think what you seem to think we think?
Quite sad? It might have been because you were looking at my/our smile/s whilst upside down. Actually, I am in the Northern Hemisphere right now, so you might actually have a valid excuse for this oversight.
These incredible leaps of logic (big picture strategic thinking?) should be ditched. They are not smart.

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Depends on how you define yourself. If you think you are just rich and cool and awesome because you know rich, richer and richest people... Well I haven't met those. But if you're as what your previous posting indicate - a well to do a hole who reckons they got where they are out of their pure genius and hardwork alone... yea, I've met people like you.

What made you think I or others do not know what the rich think? The rich are just like all of us - there are good and generous rich people as well as prickly rich people; same as the poor. The only difference between these "classes" of people is their bank balance... Or am I wrong to assume that rich people like yourself are just superior and actually think differently?

What are you talking about now? It was your original position that voters needed to be better educated to make better decisions:

…then you changed it to they already know. And now it is they already know and don’t do anything about it. Are you arguing against yourself? You aren’t arguing my viewpoints, that’s for sure.
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Let me repeat the point, phrasing it in a different way so you could understand.

Everybody know that earning more money would be good for them; every idiot knows a bank balance of $20 million is better than one with $20 dollars.

Do you know anyone above grade 1 who doesn't know that?

How, key word, HOW, do you make it feasible for most people to earn more good money? Earn millions?

Education right? Let them learn a skill or a profession and they would have a better chance at realising, making possible, the earning of a higher income. If you just let people dig ditches and clean toilets and they learn nothing else, chances are they won't earn much even though they know earning much more is better. Right?

So to voters.
They know who the policies benefits; they know they get the crumbs. What and how are they going to do about it?

But if they're not educated, what are they going to do about it? They'd just accept that that's how the world is; they just accept their place in it and teach their children to do well at school, do well at uni and one day they too could be PM or a billionaire, right? If not the children, then the grandchildren or a few generations later.

Anyone with access to a freely available internet terminal at a local public library which has Google/Firefox/Explorer on it could access it down to very minute detail. I know this because that’s how I got it for that example. Was this a big surprise?

Google was referred to as a search engine... their internet browser is Chrome, or Google Chrome... not Google.

Point was, yea people know, and poor people live, the fact that gov't policies favour the rich and cut welfare and social services... the know... what are they going to do about it? Not vote and pay a fine?

They probably just want to get rich as well... but in the mean time, they'd just want to not die.

Contacts, like names in Yellow Pages, are dime a dozen for a specific purpose. Actually, I wouldn’t even pay a dime for a dozen. Good contacts aren’t common. One day, you might come to be able to contrast that. It is absolutely obvious you cannot distinguish this at this time. You didn’t even get past Bowen. Actually, you might not have even gotten past the people who work for Bowen – and they are theoretically working for you at a local level.

Yea, I know it helps if RY call up ahead... Bowen might have come out and see me. Heck, Murdoch might even answer his phone if RY let him know... wait, maybe not since I'm a distant cousin of Wendy.

So that's all good and fine... but in the mean time, keeping RY as a contact and I'd have to put up with his crab all year. Cost/Benefit... na

Yea mate, having good contact is rare... as rare and beneficial as having a good product or services people could profit or find value from?

Don't know, when I search for stuff on eBay... if I find something I value I would message the seller even though I and none of my friends know them. Rich people don't do that?

Actually, the opposite. If you do get the opportunity to change the fabric of finance on a grand scale, I might actually have to return to work - like everyone else. Firstly by reskilling at a tertiary level in geology. Then, when I graduate, I will be licensed to bang flint rocks together to create fire. At least unemployment will be zero and the participation rate 100%. Maximum utilisation of the societal resources. Mission accomplished.

Haha...
I didn't say I would or could change finance. Your industry is in finance, it's not finance, it's something else.
And how could I crash it anyway? Don't have any Nobel Prize in Finance and do not work in the industry... we all know you got to work in it to really know how to crash it like the last one or ten times - who's counting right?

So why are you belittling her recognition for her contribution to humanity with this nonsense? In any case, the point was that she did incredible things without access to powerful people. You have twisted this simple point into an abomination about the award process of the Nobel Committee. What a tangent.

How low does this odious cesspit of non-sequitors, tangents, obfuscations and ridiculousness go?

How was I belittling her? I said that she has fellow laureates like Kissinger; and Obama who "won" it for... for being elected president of the US? That's no small task but a peace maker?

Point was, not all Nobel Laureates got awarded for the same reason or achievements right?

Inequality (Cambridge): unfair situation in society when some people have more opportunities, money, etc. than other people
Absolute poverty (Wikipedia): a condition characterized by severe deprivation of basic human needs, including food, safe drinking water, sanitation facilities, health, shelter, education and information.
I didn’t make these definitions up any more than I made up the definition for cat. I describe a cat as a cat when I see one. Obviously, nothing compels you to do likewise and you are demonstrating your freedom to partake in adding to complexity of the genetic pool of the English language. Still I’d like to point out that what you called a rhino was actually a cat.

"unfair situation in society when some people have more opportunities, money, etc. than other people"... That's not what I've been saying? Reich said the same, from memory.

So, now, what are we talking about? Are we now moving to ‘unfair’ without having concluded on ‘inequality’, let alone ‘absolute poverty’ and suggesting that those experiencing ‘poverty’ don’t care what the rich make even just a little? Class warfare? I hope you’ll acknowledge that I haven’t even raised those issues in this exchange. Your mind reading should tell you that I would not have those ‘idiotic’ views.

Referring to your comments, apparently all revolutions that you can recall may not have been started by the poor. However, as you say, they involved the poor for who else are the demi-gods stirring up as fodder? Revolutions tend to take down at least some of the elite. Perhaps, the poor did get just a little upset making it easier for the revisionists to stir up a little fervour? Maybe one was a little upset that King Louis de Vuitton was making out like a bandit when the rest were working harder and doing it tougher…wanting to change the order of things a little, get some payback?

I grew up among poor people... I never heard them, or us, or me, blaming the rich. We're all too busy making ends meet, the further the ends are apart, the harder we work to make them meet. The rich or envious of the rich plays no role in our lives. If they play a role it more as a motivation to work hard, study hard so we could have a shot at getting richer too... envy?

But we're not at starvation level, yet, are we? There's still opportunities for a handful of exceptionally talented kids from working families...

That and there's this thing call Social Security in Australia.... but don't worry, that's going to be cut and skinned and eventually removed and we're back to a capitalist paradise like it was in England during the Industrial Revolutions, like it was before WW2 and the West was crumbling and Democracy and Capitalism was on its way out because people who can't feed their family love it too much.

Maybe no-one who was poor turned up to protest at the Occupy Movements around various parts of the world post GFC. “We are the 99%” slogans actually meant that part of the bottom 99% who are not poor. So something like “We are the middle 80%”, or something like it, would have been more correct and reflect the truth as you see it. I have my doubts. Someone out there must know stats and would have posted a placard along those lines if that’s what they actually meant. Being outside of the 1% doesn’t make you unable to understand or use stats, or even decide for themselves whether they are poor or not, at all. No more so than saying they are all stupid or sheeple. So unless they are all stupid and/or liars operating in a cartel, the observations are apart from your assertions. Alternatively, the “99%” concept was unrelated to wealth of income.

??

Were you inspired by the reflection in the screen as you wrote that? Can you define clue for me? Did you mean cue? Have you changed your mind to favour glue instead of clue since writing this? Are all people with glue that you have met, like me, drivers of Ferraris who splash puddles on the destitute because we think they might be thirsty and deserve to be wet even if not thirsty? That people who are wet or thirsty are therefore stupid?

…hence no particular pressing need for education levels to be raised for political debate. Learn a little bit of history on this thread for the last couple of days by reviewing just what you authored alone. What the heck are you disagreeing with? You are disagreeing with yourself again.

Don’t know. Who said it? Anyone? Put your hand up!

You didn't say that by comparison to the middle ages, our society is basically an egalitarian paradise? Not direct quote, but something like that? No? It's up there for those interested.

Definitions in dictionaries are not exactly a strong point. When you add mind reading, you get sparks. We have made progress to get from the Middle Ages to present circumstances. Because I have now made this statement, you might choose to disagree. In any case, the direction of progress at any given time may not be optimal. Were it for different choices, for example, our progress might have been much greater – depending on whatever is important to society. Most certainly, progress will not always be fine despite historical gains made.

Yea, quoting you, happiness is being "grateful" for what we have.
Yup, it could be worst... we could be in prison, could starve to death... could be stuck in the "third world"... so better be grateful for there lies happiness.

Some years back, a tiler my age, probably from seeing a tiny tin shed I call my home, feels sorry for me and said that it's OK, when he starts out he had nothing either and he now have a house and a family and is going to build a granny flat so he could rent it out to help pay the mortgage... So happiness is knowing when it's enough because if you don't think it's enough, enough is never enough.

You're no tiler are you? You're the "be grateful for what you have, you a hole" kinda guy yea?


Mind reading... I've been accused of that a lot. Maybe I'm just smart and know what people are thinking without them saying it directly.

With history as your guide but not even basic statistics and an understanding of economic relationships with that when operating within the field of economics and finance? Driving by looking backwards with the foggy rear view mirror in a car not suited for terrain with only and common sense to guide you with what will happen next? Common sense dictates that you don’t even turn the ignition. That sentiment should really be reflected in the first sentence of the strategic plan.

haha... rearview mirror.

Funding higher/public education is rearview mirror planning? It worked again and again before, history have shown that the better trained, the more educated the population, the richer the society become... But who can be sure it will work again in the future.

Aren't you from the generation of Australians who got a free or almost free university degree if they wanted to? Didn't do you any good right?

How about lending some money to the later generations and see if that'd do them any good.

So, what are you saying about a family earning $100kpa but chooses to send their kid to the local public school? Less caring, less worthy, parents,…than another family in an otherwise identical situation who sends their kid to a high performance private school? Did you talk to these parents to get their view on this? They might have something else in mind.
Or, at some price, education costs exceed benefits? I baulked at doing an E/MBA. I had the means, it just wasn’t worth it. I wouldn’t pay $10m to send my kid to the Institute of Herbal Tea Appreciation for a Masters qualification either. I get the sense that paying more than something is worth is stupid. I’d rather just give them the cash.
As a society, if you proceed along these lines universal tertiary education irrespective of immediate vocational demand, you are asking me/others to pay for ‘your’ kid to be educated and taking money out of my pocket to do so. Whilst you may be super-generous to your kids and myself too, the moment transfers occur, the idea of giving anything you can weakens even further and economics of a more terrestrial form re-asserts itself over the Draghi-like whatever-it-takes viewpoint. You are asking me to pay for some burger flipper to become an orthodontist to make society more flexible for an unknown future. No way.

What? If that burger flipper got a tertiary education, and if all burger flippers already have or are studying to get a tertiary qualification... will they still remain burger flippers?

Or will they be replaced by younger students who's filliping burger to gain some extra cash to help their parents or something?

Nooo... let them flip burgers, for the rest of their lives.

People got to know their place, got to know that in this great democracy of ours, if they messed up their HSC, if they got sick or if their family and personal crisis take them off the game for a while... they're screwed, for life! That or swim against the current and if they don't drown, they'll be held up as the kind of achievements our fair land and generous society make happen, all the time.

How do you speak out of both sides of your mouth like that?

On the one hand, can't be "generous" and fund higher education.... why? because it's wasteful and we all need burger flippers and we all know the longer they've been at burger flipping, the better it tastes. Then on the other side of your mouth, it's a great democracy where people decide, where politicians work and make policies that benefits not the rich but the common people...

Just it doesn't work so well, and you and your tax dollars won't have it, if the common people want to send their kids to university.

Funny, I thought all parents, and just about all the kids in my grades, wanted to go to university. Can't have that people. Pick something else, like... like having your kids fight it out for a limited number of places and the rest will be deemed failures and idiots and go flip burgers... for the rest of their lives - well, maybe they can, if they work really hard at it, get to fry chips and maybe even serve sundaes.


Wow, sending kids to higher education, to get trained and specialised in a profession - to have a good chance to life themselves and their siblings/parents out of poverty... that's comparable to spending $10M to send your kids to herbal tea appreciation.

Did I put that in your mouth?

Other than you, did someone say that education only made idiots out of workers and citizenry?

Don't you imply that in stating that education is worthless for the proverbial burger flippers anyway?
That if "we" send them to uni, why they'd just be back flipping burgers... what a waste! Why not let them flip burgers and save a few bucks.

So, the money that goes into a freeway or building homes is somehow different to the money that is used to fund the educational renaissance which defies economic rationale? Have you found a new form of QE? I could not find a balance sheet item in any monetary program that segregated educational development money from other types of money. Apparently, even the money printers think they are the same thing – and they are creating money from nothing. Hence the use of money needs to be considered in the context of prices and perceived value for goods and services…kind of like capitalism.

$500 million (estimate) for "a year" to bomb and "liberate" people from an evil cult thousands of miles away is small change... putting kids through uni... woohhhh... what are we? made of money?

A typical degree is how much? $50 000? 500 000 000 / 50 000 = 10,000 educated citizens... too costly.

What in the world does 10,000 educated people, who become educated parent, who become educated uncles and aunties... what good have that ever done to the family, to society...

But if we use that cash, and more if needed, and bomb the evil doers... why that's, that'll keep us safe... and enrich all our lives.

Seriously? I was guessing as to anyone specific when I said something about astronomers, orthodontists or medieval historians? Who was I assigning these guesses to, exactly? Name them. Perhaps I was guessing that Know-the-Past is a medieval history lecturer? Nope, don’t think so.
If you could tell me where I made estimates of your income or that of others in specific terms, other than for the purposes of an example in the absence of concrete alternative fact, that would be good. Same thing with the state or nature of employment.
It’s tedious and rude to have words and implications made up and argued against over and over again in your name. This observation, of wanton fabrication, is not specific to me either. Not by a long shot.
If I am way off base, it is because I made no attempt to be on base, deliberately, on this matter. Thanks for getting that bit right, at least.

You said it previously, and just said it again above... that funding too many uni places is being "disproportionately" generous with "your" bigger tax bill.

Didn't you also suggest that I was unemployed in other threads? How I couldn't find work at Moodys or something or couldn't work, and how it's not much of a change?

Add those and your name droppings and stuff... I can't do fancy maths and addition is OK.

The first sentence is an accurate reflection of what I have said and believe. As for the rest, go for gold.

You said it, but you don't believe it.

If you believe it, you'd want more funding to higher education, you'd want more opportunities so people can lift themselves - through education and community support - out of the working-poor class.

If you really believe that anyone could better themselves if given the chance, you would be "generous", like you are with your kids. Why? Because it's be pretty screwed to believe that if someone else's kids could do as well if they're better educated and given a shot but then thought the cost is not worth it since they will be back flipping burgers anyway.

How in the world could you think that a tiler or a plumber could also be an engineer or a doctor or any specialised profession they chooses if given the chance... and at the same time deemed it unnecessary and wasteful to fund that opportunity?


And that's not me reading your mind, it's just the kind of tools I learn from a course at uni I now use and unpack rubbish like your arguments for what it is.

In me thinking that anyone could be taught to think and improve themselves if given the chance... that I support higher education for all those who want it. Not deeming some are just not worth the cost, not worth the luxury.

 

[luutzu]

There are good private schools and there are duds. Same with public schools, there are good ones and there are duds.

The notion that private schools are automatically better than public is false in my view. They blatantly skew results via forcing students into certain subjects or even outright rejecting those likely to fail. In contrast, the public system takes the lot, thus dragging down the average of any academic benchmark.

If the student is reasonably bright then they'll be able to achieve good results in either system in my view.

Exactly.

My cousin was looking to enrol with a popular HSC math tutor to improve his Maths. The tutor look at his reports and rejected him, saying his grades and his maths are not good enough.

My cousin thinks a bit and thought, if I'm very good at it why would I need you to teach me? If you're a good tutor as they say you are, you'd want to teach people who aren't good yet.

 

[sydboy007]

There are good private schools and there are duds. Same with public schools, there are good ones and there are duds.

The notion that private schools are automatically better than public is false in my view. They blatantly skew results via forcing students into certain subjects or even outright rejecting those likely to fail. In contrast, the public system takes the lot, thus dragging down the average of any academic benchmark.

If the student is reasonably bright then they'll be able to achieve good results in either system in my view.

I read a few years back that private school kids are more likely to get into uni, but public school kids are more likely to graduate.

 

[Mrmagoo]

lmao... university is just a con job they use to take students money and then cast them aside ?

23 and no fulltime work experience but 40k debt for training in a field you've never worked ?

bwhahahaha

 

[McLovin]

lmao... university is just a con job they use to take students money and then cast them aside ?

23 and no fulltime work experience but 40k debt for training in a field you've never worked ?

bwhahahaha

But probably more productive than having a whinge on the internet.

 

[tech/a]

lmao... university is just a con job they use to take students money and then cast them aside ?

23 and no fulltime work experience but 40k debt for training in a field you've never worked ?

bwhahahaha

Become an Expert
It doesn matter much what you become an expert in
But once an EXPERT people will beat a path to your door.
Your the best at pessimist I've ever seen

 

[orr]

Become an Expert
It doesn matter much what you become an expert in
But once an EXPERT people will beat a path to your door.

The Economist takes a similar slant. And points out that if your parents were experts at something, and 'at being born in the right time and place' as well, things look a whole lot better.

http://www.economist.com/node/21601...id/display-LA/BR-FT/BRPII/none/subs/AU/BR-LIT

 

[tech/a]

Many are expert Dole bludgers and Alcoholics.

Seems the observation covers a broad spectrum.
"Wrong time wrong place' is just as powerful

 

[Mrmagoo]

But probably more productive than having a whinge on the internet.

The problem with Australians is that they assume you either accept them or go off on some amazing tangent.

For most working class young MEN a degree is about the worst thing you could suggest.

At age 18 or 19 you could be on between 75-90k and on the path to your first home. Or you can be competing with little girls for the handful of part timer jobs available to students.

Then you end up competing with 22 year old girls for jobs as well as international students. After all that there is no guarantee of a job. Instead of working at some ****ty petrol station on weekends for living expenses you could be on $1400 a week and having a beer with the boys down the pub and never be out of work. A degree ruins so many lives it is unbelievable that anyone would still suggest it to a working class teenager.

If you go the trade route you effectively start work a decade earlier and end up not having to compete with virtually half of the population for work. That is something so many people do not consider when they look over a trade.

There are exceptions and I'm sure someone will post "but a degree worked out for me !" and I'm going to ignore you like I always do because you're the exception.

 

[Mrmagoo]

Become an Expert
It doesn matter much what you become an expert in
But once an EXPERT people will beat a path to your door.
Your the best at pessimist I've ever seen

You left school early a got a trade. You're the biggest hypocrite I've ever seen.

 

[Mrmagoo]

I read a few years back that private school kids are more likely to get into uni, but public school kids are more likely to graduate.

Where did you read that ? No doubt lies that they tell public school kids to trick them into feeding the education industry more money. For an industry that feeds on the tears of young people, they do a good job on inspiring false hope. They fed us the same bull stories. Luckily for many of the young men they were aware of the kinds of pay packets tradesmen were able to earn (even back then) and called the teachers on their nonsense.

 

[sptrawler]

Where did you read that ? No doubt lies that they tell public school kids to trick them into feeding the education industry more money. For an industry that feeds on the tears of young people, they do a good job on inspiring false hope. They fed us the same bull stories. Luckily for many of the young men they were aware of the kinds of pay packets tradesmen were able to earn (even back then) and called the teachers on their nonsense.

For once I agree with you, making kids stay in school, while they have limited academic ability is terrible.

All it does is strip young adults, of any self respect they have, by making them compete in an arena, that they are destined to fail in.

Why we left the old system of filtering, is beyond me.

All it has done is stuff more kids into an overloaded education system, to support wage claims for teachers.IMO

Now we have, all the tradies that come to your house, can't speak English.

Why, because we want everyone to go to University, whether it is useful or not.

I have never seen a dumber education system, brought about by political clout of self interested morons.IMO

 

[get better]

For most working class young MEN a degree is about the worst thing you could suggest.

To rephrase this, getting "any degree" is the worst thing anyone could suggest. BUT there are some degrees that have very good job prospects/other great indirect benefits (i.e. medicine, engineering, law etc) and as long as you do a degree in something you love/have a passion for, you'll succeed.

 

[Mrmagoo]

To rephrase this, getting "any degree" is the worst thing anyone could suggest. BUT there are some degrees that have very good job prospects/other great indirect benefits (i.e. medicine, engineering, law etc) and as long as you do a degree in something you love/have a passion for, you'll succeed.

Medicine has good prospects the rest don't. Most of those engineering students would be better off getting a trade.

Doing something which pays money will make you succeed. Passion is meaningless. Unless you have a rich husband or wife to support you while you go for your passion.

Get a trade and you're set for life. Always employable on good money. Can work in any where in Australia and usually in any country you want.

 

[get better]

Medicine has good prospects the rest don't. Most of those engineering students would be better off getting a trade.

Doing something which pays money will make you succeed. Passion is meaningless. Unless you have a rich husband or wife to support you while you go for your passion.

Get a trade and you're set for life. Always employable on good money. Can work in any where in Australia and usually in any country you want.

I graduated as an Engineer 5 years ago. 95% of my cohort found engineering or other jobs that have turned into a career (i.e. down the finance path). The remaining 5% couldn't find anything but that was because they were duds (non-employable people in general).

Personally, I think it has more to do with the person than the degree. There will always be jobs for those that have drive and continually improve themselves to become better.

Also, it's not as black and white as you make it out to be.

I used to think that I should have just done a trade straight out of high school but thinking back, that would have been silly of me. The soft skills I have gained from doing the university degree has proved extremely valuable, problem solving, critical thinking, analytical etc - these are skills I would not have had a chance to refine if I went straight to the trade route. I can also apply these skills to other aspects of my life, such as investing/trading etc.

Also, if you ever work in the mines, a lot of tradies make heaps of $$$ but end up spending it all on expensive toys/booze. There are pros and cons to both sides, it really depends on the person and their situation.

 

[sptrawler]

I graduated as an Engineer 5 years ago. 95% of my cohort found engineering or other jobs that have turned into a career (i.e. down the finance path). The remaining 5% couldn't find anything but that was because they were duds (non-employable people in general).

Personally, I think it has more to do with the person than the degree. There will always be jobs for those that have drive and continually improve themselves to become better.

Also, it's not as black and white as you make it out to be.

I used to think that I should have just done a trade straight out of high school but thinking back, that would have been silly of me. The soft skills I have gained from doing the university degree has proved extremely valuable, problem solving, critical thinking, analytical etc - these are skills I would not have had a chance to refine if I went straight to the trade route. I can also apply these skills to other aspects of my life, such as investing/trading etc.

Also, if you ever work in the mines, a lot of tradies make heaps of $$$ but end up spending it all on expensive toys/booze. There are pros and cons to both sides, it really depends on the person and their situation.

That just proves, you were one of the people that would have obtained a degree and a career, anyway.

Which is the way it should be.

But I bet you still call in a plumber when you need one.

 

[satanoperca]

Passion is meaningless. Unless you have a rich husband or wife to support you while you go for your passion.

Mr I need help as I am f---kd in the head. Mate, I feel so sorry for you, I wish Australia could provide greater support to people like you. It is so sad that this country has let you down.

In my many years of reading this forum and all the people that have come and gone, you are the best, well up in the top 10.

Life without passion is not worth living, it is the essence of living. Don't care what it is, but without it you might as well be you.

My apologies, you have passion, just directed in the wrong direction. Go out and smell the roses.

As for the debate on trades or degree, mate we need both to have a functioning society, both are just as important as each other. You need to remove that chip, actually massive rock off your shoulder. Life is not about just making money, it is about living.

Getting a degree doesn't not guarantee success, it is up to the individual, but from someone who has both a degree and a trade, for me it was all about passion and wanting to learn, live and laugh, should try it some time.

Reading your diatribe has even further confirmed that I took the right path and crap, I am passionate and successful.

So while I cannot really be bothered entertaining your ideologies, if everyone did a trade, who would you go to when you a medically unwell, who would build the roads, the computer system we are dependent upon, do the research to one day cure cancer, teach are children. All I can assume is that you feel begrudge at the world as you expected more out of you life without working for it.

What is even sadder is that my 9 year old son has a better grip on reality than you. Maybe you need to go back to school and get educated. LOL.

If you really want to debate wealth inequality, try looking outside your very small box to other countries. All countries suffer from wealth inequality, but from someone who is widely travelled, Australia has the smallest gap.

Flame away as I am made of liquid

 

[skyQuake]

Life without passion is not worth living, it is the essence of living. Don't care what it is, but without it you might as well be you.

My apologies, you have passion, just directed in the wrong direction. Go out and smell the roses.

Hear hear!


________________________________

MrMagoo that much negativity should be used to run a firm like Muddy Waters. Then you can post negativity about companies to your heart's content and make billions shorting.

 

[Smurf1976]

I qualified to go to uni but chose not to and did a trade instead.

So far it has worked for me just fine, but then I'm one of those "expert" people who gets called to a site to find a solution when everyone else is scratching their heads. So in practice I do far more analysis and thinking than actual work with tools these days. As for the $, well let's just say that I'm not complaining....