Vegetable garden

[Julia]

In summer I grow them on a trellis. The sun and air will keep the mildew down.

OK, that might be where I have gone wrong, i.e. I've grown them on the ground. Will let them share a trellis with the Purple King Beans.

I did read onemore as meaning you to fly south. ?????????? Aussies usually only hate kiwis when it is associated with sport. Although I was once told in a NZ bar that I was an akubra hatted, pelaco shirted, stanima trousered bas****.

Well, that was very unmannerly of my countryfolk. We are generally very nice to you Aussies as we need your tourism business.

No, I think Onemore was encouraging me to go back to NZ (Sob!)
I am having a hard time trying not to feel unwanted

 

[nioka]

Wasn't there as a tourist. I worked in NZ for 3 years in the early 50s. Enjoyed it and had a good time. Made a lot of friends too. Was a factory manager at 23 yrs of age in charge of about 60 so there were a few who didn't take me seriously.

 

[Whiskers]

I notice that most of the comments are from the southern states.
We grew wonderful vegetables (and flowers) in New Zealand, but since moving to Qld I've found it's a real struggle. Prepared the ground as others have described, put in the seedlings,and they grow quite well until they are about half mature. Then all the bugs and diseases discover them and have a **** field day. I've even relinquished my ideals of growing organically and used poisons but it makes little difference. I can grow herbs and tomatoes but have given up on other vegetables. Such a shame.
Two things could drive me back to NZ: the plentiful water supply and the wonderful gardening.

Great to hear of others' success.

Julia, it sounds like you might have a low ph and/or low nutrition levels, particularly phosphate. That is fairly typical of coastal Qld. The fact that your tomatoes grow OK suggests low ph, (tomatoes still grow well at ph 4.5) and if your other vegies suffer from all manner of pest and disease as they near maturity, suggests low brix (plant sugar) levels.

Plants with high brix levels are very unpalatable to chewing pests. The atmosphere around plants are also far more areobic when ph and available fertility is good. Anerobic plants attract pests and disease.

If your ph is below 6.2 I would apply a little fine lime. If ph is OK a little gypsum or dolomite to keep the calcium levels up.

You can save a lot of money if you can go to a rural supplies business and get a 40kg bag of a good all round preplant fert for around $35. I usually used CK55(S) or TomatoTE because they are sulphate based potassium. Don't use chloride based potassium, KCL. I can't see these brands on the website now, but something like CAL-AM ® PRONTO (S) N: 6.8% P: 10.4% K: 10.3% S: 5.0% Ca: 9.5%, is very similar.
http://www.incitec.com/ProductInformation.asp

The closest agent: Calamon Pty Ltd, MS 763 Chapel Road Pialba. 4655. 07 4128 3799, 07 4124 5585.

Home gardner products like thrive and aquasol often supply too much nitrogen, which contributes to anorebic conditions and increased pest and disease pressure. This often occures with poultry manures too. Hot humid conditions can give a sudden release of the nitrogen usually when you don't want it.

Another very good product I have used and is available in 1, 5, and 20litre for abt $15, $45, and $140 respectively is Nutri-Tech tripple ten. This is a liquid fert containing a lot of organics that will keep the brix levels up and fill out fruit. http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/products_new/liquid-fertilisers/triple-ten-range.html

This type of product containing fish emulsion and vermicast builds up microbal activity and fulvic acid chelates nutrients for better uptake and binds up toxic elements in the soil.

The contact details are on the website and they will post to you. A 20 litre last cost me $10 postage.

There you go. No excuses for not getting a good veg crop. Actually, I got a bit carried away here, because Will power crashed out of the Indy 300 this arvo, so I got an early sleep to get up early to see Casey Stoner win again and for the Brazilian F1 grand prix, hoping Louis Hamilton would win the championship in his first year and our Mark Webber perform well, but... , hence I lost interest and got carried away here.

Actually those products will work all over Aus. In SA though ph levels are often alkaline (> 7) compared to acidic (< 7) in the rest of Aus, so you probably wouldn't apply lime there.

 

[austek]

Whiskers, I don't use ph readings anymore although I have a gauge for it, got very confusing when their are so many other variables to contend with.

Amounts of rainwater, different fertilizers and manures etc.

I found with commerciual fertilizers my vergies particularly sweetcorn grew smaller each year until you rest the soil.

With varius animal manures vegies just keep on keeping on. I haven't rested the soil nowfor 18 years or more. Two things I feel that help are,

1. I scrape the top level of soil away end of season, add bins of half rotted
autumn leaves and cover with fresh mulch from the compost heap

2. Tomatoes luv worm casings, especially at the start of the seedling stage.
Other manures are too strong unless added to soil a few months before
planting

my 2 cents

 

[Whiskers]

Hi austek

Some vegies such as sweet corn do much better in ph 6 to 6.5. Corn is also a hungry feeder, so if the nutrients aren't readily available it won't perform well. One of the problems with non organic fertilisers is that they tend to acidify the soil, hence comercial growers apply lime every few years to raise the ph back. The other problem is the rate of release of the phosphate which is relatively slow and without good microbial activity tends to lock up in the soil and not be plant available. Many older fertilises mixes and still some today contain potassium as potassium chloride (KCL). As if the above doesn't cause enough problems the chloride in KCL adds to the salinity of the soil, affecting the conductivity and hence further limits the uptake of nutrients. Many fertilisers sold in nursery supplies contain KCL.

Also as you say, hot manure can also be problematic. By letting it settle with compost as you do is the best way to go.

The dry fert I mentioned for julia is sulphate based potassium, contains a balance of ammonium and nitrate nitrogen and water and citrate soluble phosphate for more even and sustained release. When you need to build up fertility this is one of the best and cheapest to get it done quickly.

The liquid tripple ten contains the organic stuff that accelerates the biological build up while buffing against the abovementioned disadvantages of conventional fertilisers.

After a couple of crops, the residual fertility and microbial activity will be much improved as you can atest to and you need less applied fert.

The beauty of a soil with high organic carbon levels is that the nutrients are held in the soil in readily available form so plants can just take up what they need.

 

[Julia]

Whiskers,

Thank you indeed for that comprehensive explanation. I've used some Thrive/Aquasol on flowers with good results but haven't used it on veges.
Have used lots of chook poo, mixed animal manure and mushroom compost and thought I was doing the right thing.

I know the rural supplies store you mean - not far from here. Thanks for looking that up.

I actually have very little vege garden space left now, having installed three 5000litre water tanks in that space. I'll resist going into a cost-effectiveness commentary on either the vegies or the water!

 

[Bushrat]

I've been a member on this website for a while now, but have never read the Vege garden thread. Being a down day i thought i'd go back and have a bit of a read and think its fantastic..I have a few acres and concentrate mainly on Rockmelons and Watermelons, raise them in seedling trays and get them in the dirt end of September (being in the subtropics the soil temp is high enough this time of year).. I have a bore and 3 tanks totalling 20,000 gallons, about 80,000 litres, and this feeds the house, pool, over 100 citrus, mango, pecan and macca trees as well as the melons, herbs and house vegies.. My main enemies seem to be a small orange flying bug about the size of a lady beetle which chews through the melons and grubs which attack my citrus trees...i'm seeking organic certification and so am a very labour intensive operation when it comes to weeds and bugs/ grubs and am trying various concoctions to keep the bugs at bay..
anyway, enough about me....great thread...love being able to eat your own..nothing like it...you never know where the produce at supermarkets is coming from or how it has been treated nowadays.

cheers

 

[arminius]

gday bushrat,
i planted rocky seeds 6 weeks ago and they're about 20cm high and starting to spread out. how much space do you reckon is needed for each individual plant? been using a bit of seasol fert. is that ok you reckon?
when is the optimum time for picking?
thanks.
my snow peas are going beserk. Woohoo!

 

[INORE]

yeh i'm trying rockmelons for the first time. last year i had about 6 watermelon vines which only produced about 3 edible melons, the rest actually split prem. how do i not make the same mistakes this year? is there similar probs with growing rocks and watermelons? BTW thanks whiskers for your input...i'm going to look into that brix stuff with an organic grower i play cricket with.

 

[Bushrat]

arminius and inore...you need about a metre and half for rockies..if they are 20cm now, it wont take long for the runners to get out to a metre...you should get about 3 to5 good sized fruit ready for picking in 10-12 weeks after planting depending on conditions...split rockmelons is due to either, overwatering or underwatering...in real hot weather at the end of the day, you will notice the leaves have wilted, the plants should be watered lightly and pick the fruit when they come off the vine with about 1/2 to 1 twist and have a full cover off netting just beyond green and entering a yellow colour and should be eaten within 2 days..when ripe, rockies dont keep well - supermarkt rockies are gased, and this makes them taste powdery..they have probably been stored a week to 10 days...watermelons are basically the same and should produce 2 to 4 good sized melons. Harvest Water melons when you knock on them and they sound hollow, and half to 1 twist to come off the vine..both melons need extra watering when the fruit is set and in hot weather..
to prevent yellow patches on the melons (as the result of contact with the ground) i put some straw or hay under the fruit..this prevents the yellow discolouring on the underside..if its windy and the runners are getting blown about, throw some dirt on them. the vines are pretty hardy and take a bit of beating..mine are starting to flower now, so fruit will be coming in the next few weeks, but we're expecting storms soon, so i wont need to water so much..sesol should be ok..i only use cow and chook poo and worm castings..

there easy to grow, great to eat and easy to sell...melons are the way to go.

 

[INORE]

thanks very much bushrat....i never new about the 1/2 twist method of harvesting...with watermelons i must have researched about 5 other different methods to check for ripening...is it possible to overfeed rockmelons..ie too much blood'n'bone and lime??? also. is there any value in shading the melons as they grow with straw to protect from heat on a 40-45 degree day???

 

[Bushrat]

yes..dont overfeed the melons..i dont really give them anything, but it does depend on the soil structure. i have dark chocolate basalt soil, which is full of organic matter (the steers used to be in the paddock),,knock the watermelon and listen for a dull hollow sound when harvesting..
i dont shade mine and in the shade here it does get to 44 degrees. if you know your in for a stinking hot day, give them some water in the early morning, then late afternoon especially if the leaves are wilting. having said that, they do get sunburn, perhaps put some hay or straw on them just for sun protection, but take it off asap to prevent the fruit from sweating...i just move the big leaves to cover them if i can.

 

[onemore]

No, I think Onemore was encouraging me to go back to NZ (Sob!)
I am having a hard time trying not to feel unwanted

Sorry thats not a personal attack on you Julia.

Hey I'm not a gardener but you guys have got me keen.
I'm going to buy some Bean seeds today and toss em in and see how they go.

Cheers

 

[Julia]

Sorry thats not a personal attack on you Julia.

Hey I'm not a gardener but you guys have got me keen.
I'm going to buy some Bean seeds today and toss em in and see how they go.

Cheers

Oh, phew, onemore, I'm so relieved!!!
Bean seeds are fun, but you could also buy a punnet of seedlings, put them in the ground and you will be astonished at how quickly you are picking delicious little beans - usually within two to three weeks. Watch out for the bean fly though.
Another really quick crop is seedlings of soft leaved lettuces, e.g. butter lettuce, mignonette etc.
Let us know how you go.

 

[Whiskers]

My main enemies seem to be a small orange flying bug about the size of a lady beetle which chews through the melons and grubs which attack my citrus trees...i'm seeking organic certification and so am a very labour intensive operation when it comes to weeds and bugs/ grubs and am trying various concoctions to keep the bugs at bay..
cheers

Hi Bushrat

Sounds like you might be another 'Queenslander'.

Your little orange bug sounds like the Monolepta Beetle. It will also destroy your mango flowers preventing them from fruiting.

There is another similar looking one, a Pumpkin Beetle which loves cucurbit leaves, but usually doesn't affect production too heavily.

I considered joining an organic growers group back in the early 1990's, but found the allowable products too limiting for viable commercial production. But I still avoided pesticides as much as possible by focusing more on plant health and IPM.

I'm rationalising my activities down to focus more on share trading now, but I would be interested to hear how you go with organic pest controls.

 

[Whiskers]

Bean seeds are fun, but you could also buy a punnet of seedlings, put them in the ground and you will be astonished at how quickly you are picking delicious little beans - usually within two to three weeks. Watch out for the bean fly though.
Another really quick crop is seedlings of soft leaved lettuces, e.g. butter lettuce, mignonette etc.
Let us know how you go.

Butter beans and the butter crunch lettuce are my favourites. Other staples for me were baby carrots and sugar snap peas, strawberries, black musket grapes and fresh picked spuds... beautiful When my kids were babies they loved the sugar snap peas raw. They usually raided them and the grapes and strawberries while I was at work.

I'll have to get back to growing a few again. The taste of a lot of vegies from the supermarkets these days is not that flash and I haven't been eating as many as I should because I know what some growers get away with and too often mancozeb residue is visible on peas, paw paw and mangoes.

I'm afraid all I have now is some rundown asparagus, shallots, strawberries, pineapples, mandarin, orange, mango, bananas and paw paw and papaya.

Another one I really loved was called salsify. It was like a white carrot, but when stir fried it was soo sweet. It was called the vegetable oyster. I couldn't get them for a long time. I'll have to have another search around.

 

[Whiskers]

BTW thanks whiskers for your input...i'm going to look into that brix stuff with an organic grower i play cricket with.

The brix is probably the most important measure, after you have the soil balance right. I think once you get focused on that you will be pleasently surprised at the superiour eating quality and pest and disease resistance of your plants.

Good luck.

 

[Bushrat]

gidday whiskers...not in queensland, but i can see the border ranges out the window, so very close....little orange bug, its bright orange, kinda like a lady beetle without the spots...little bugger....soapy water and garlic mix is what i'm trying at the moment.. a bit of vegemite mixed in might be the go. We'll see.
cheers

 

[nioka]

thanks very much bushrat....i never new about the 1/2 twist method of harvesting...with watermelons i must have researched about 5 other different methods to check for ripening...


scratch the skin with your fingernail. If the skin peels off under the fingernail then the melon is ripe. If it doesn't then it isn't.


also. is there any value in shading the melons as they grow with straw to protect from heat on a 40-45 degree day???


Definitely yes but don't mulch with green or wet hay or grass. Just enough dry matter to stop most of the sun.

 

[onemore]

Hi fellow green thumbs.

I put me bean seeds in today ,they didn't have any seedlings left.

Anychance of posting some links to your favourite Vege Gardening sites ? I'm gunna have to do a bit of research.

Cheers ....onemore