wayneL
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Snake Pliskin said:
Good videos
Great song... not my prefered genre mind you, but the lyrics are truly Dylanesque
Unanswered 9/11 questions
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Good videos
Great song... not my prefered genre mind you, but the lyrics are truly Dylanesque
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Last two:
look at the nose of the aircraft.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4ARQ6anxEA&search=wtc 911
Building
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaFxx88qRxs&search=wtc 911
look at the nose of the aircraft.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4ARQ6anxEA&search=wtc 911
Building
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaFxx88qRxs&search=wtc 911
wayneL
VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!
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Man I gotta go listen to some nice music 
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I haven't heard any explanations that even remotely refute the 911 eyewitness video..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAAj544e1cc
first 13 minutes are pretty boring. but when the towers come down the audio is captured of all the explosions..
Not sure if its accurate but i heard that about 40k was spent investigating 911 with the commision and 40m on clintons sex life
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAAj544e1cc
first 13 minutes are pretty boring. but when the towers come down the audio is captured of all the explosions..
Not sure if its accurate but i heard that about 40k was spent investigating 911 with the commision and 40m on clintons sex life
Knobby22
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Did anyone watch the falling man documentary (BBC) on ABC last night or do we only get our news sources from reliable completely sane people on the internet?
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G'day Knobby22
I watched that doco. Very thought provoking as to the mental state of all those people trapped. Phone conversations with your loved ones knowing you are about to die.
It was interesting to see the reaction of the public as to the non publication of the picture and also whether the families of victims wanted to know whether or not the falling man should be identified or not.
Had to think about what would I do in the same circumstances - is it bravery and positive or what?
Sad.
Cheers
Dutchie
I watched that doco. Very thought provoking as to the mental state of all those people trapped. Phone conversations with your loved ones knowing you are about to die.
It was interesting to see the reaction of the public as to the non publication of the picture and also whether the families of victims wanted to know whether or not the falling man should be identified or not.
Had to think about what would I do in the same circumstances - is it bravery and positive or what?
Sad.
Cheers
Dutchie
wayneL said:
Wayne,they all do it?so history is gone and past?no wonder it keeps repeating itself.
Civilians killed,without showing too much disrespect to the dead,then you are saying that the lebanese truly are a stupid people,bombs are falling so they stay underneath it`s path to be blown away? are you serious,
On the other hand the Israelis didn`t underestimate the effect of the missiles and took cover,that is what in fact you are saying ,thats the only way I can interpret what you are saying.
Anyway your map how can you be so certain that it`s accurate,reuters were caught out with a doctore photo showing way more smoke than there actually was ,they wanted to paint a picture that did`nt exist.In the end disasters don`t need PR.They speak for themselves.
And as I said to Julia,this is taking too much of my time,bye
A few of the 911 doco's I've watched recently
Loose Change 2nd Edition (Some very good information here imo)
In Plane Sight (A tad dry but a lot of back-story and history on why (in their opinion) 911 is a cover up)
Martial Law (Some interesting information on the bush family background but some sections are really beat up and really stretch the story)
Road to Tyranny (pretty basic overview and some bias)
911 (the two Naudet brothers doco)
Whilst all claim to be "unbiased" and leave you to "make your own decision" (excluding the Naudet bros) each has it's own element of persuasive argumentation towards their own opinion (what story doesn’t?)
However if you are interested in watching a documentary and havent seen many (or any of the above) I would recommended Loose Change 2nd edition as the one to watch, it’s developed and narrated by a young guy (can't remember his name) it is very well presented and deals with a lot of factual evidence. For example it measures the melting point for steel in the buildings against recorded temperatures of burning aviation fuel and clearly highlights that the steel can withstand this type of heat for many hours (in some cases days)
Any one else seen this doco and want to share their feedback?
Loose Change 2nd Edition (Some very good information here imo)
In Plane Sight (A tad dry but a lot of back-story and history on why (in their opinion) 911 is a cover up)
Martial Law (Some interesting information on the bush family background but some sections are really beat up and really stretch the story)
Road to Tyranny (pretty basic overview and some bias)
911 (the two Naudet brothers doco)
Whilst all claim to be "unbiased" and leave you to "make your own decision" (excluding the Naudet bros) each has it's own element of persuasive argumentation towards their own opinion (what story doesn’t?)
However if you are interested in watching a documentary and havent seen many (or any of the above) I would recommended Loose Change 2nd edition as the one to watch, it’s developed and narrated by a young guy (can't remember his name) it is very well presented and deals with a lot of factual evidence. For example it measures the melting point for steel in the buildings against recorded temperatures of burning aviation fuel and clearly highlights that the steel can withstand this type of heat for many hours (in some cases days)
Any one else seen this doco and want to share their feedback?
So are you saying that was a Hezbollah drone that attacked the Ambulance??? Does it really matter if it was a Israeli helicopter or a Israeli controlled drone???
Are you serious Vis? Every Israeli house has bomb shelters in built, and every city has missile warning sirens, giving people ample time to get to the bomb shelters or flee into neighbouring areas...
Plus, if you need to flee, you need reliable cars and fuel... and a bridge to cross the river!!!
And what about all these unexploded cluster bombs that were dropped indiscriminately in the last three days of the war... Hezbollah dropped them too eh???
Goodbye Vis.
PS: for the record, Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation, and i have always advocated its dismembering. The best way to do this is to get it at its source (iran / syria) and by being on the side of the common folk of Lebanon and helping humanitarianly, at the grassroots, not bombing them to smithereens, which only further drives them into the arms of Hezbollah!
Anyone who thinks this war can be won by force is deluded... There are billions of muslims, and only a small % are extremist. Yet, some of the actions by the west in the last few years, is actually driving the moderates towards the extremist at a rate even the most fundamentalist of clerics can only dream off...
visual said:Julia,
after much consideration I`ve decided not to answer your question,it would simply take too much time to answer with any degree of certainty and knowledge.And I`ve already spent way too much time on this issue.Sorry
Julia,having said all that,I could`nt shake the feeling that I had taken the easy way out of a very difficult question.
So I googled Palestine,I think I`ve found a reliable site,don`t know how it can be be pulled to pieces,but I`m sure some people will dispute what this site says.Anyway I`m posting it here,after reading a bit of it,your question can`t be answered by me because your question doesn`t even come close to even being hypothetically similar.(Does that make sense?)
http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm#Modern History
I clicked on this heading,as I felt that a summary was better,time wise anyway,cheers
A Brief History of Israel and Palestine and the Conflict
Rafa said:
Rafa when you read the news,are you looking for facts or fantasy to be reviewed to suit the unbelievers,so this story is reported one way people start to question the reported facts,he then changes the facts and you ask
does it matter?
Absolutely,it matters,he is reporting facts,facts are facts they don`t change.
As for the lebanese inability to flee,didnt stop the people who got evacuated to different parts of the world,also blowing up bridges doesn`t stop people from moving,sure it might make taking the fridge a little hard,but moving bodies is a little easier.Not everyone who flees these type of situations relies on cars.
Of course the Israelis have bomb shelters,they know they need them,why don`t the lebanese build the same?oh thats right lack of money,so seeing that they are supported by syria and iran you`d think that protecting the people would be a priority,seeing that they have learned how Israel reacts when this type of behaviour is displayed.But no,they send them missiles and now they are giving money so that they can help in the rebuilding,what are the chances that this time the shelters will be built,seeing that their aim hasn`t changed,
Julia
In Memoriam
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Visualvisual said:
My original question 1 did not relate to who reported what etc, but rather asked for your own reasons as to why you are obviously so supportive of Israel and so condemning of the Lebanese and the Palestinians. Perhaps you are attached to the Jewish faith and that would be an explanation? We all have reasons for forming conclusions and opinions and I'm just asking for yours regarding your fierce support of Israel.
Re the second question, I don't need some potted history lesson on the establishment of Israel etc. I was just wanting to know how you might feel if another nation ousted you from your home and general environment?
Surely not such a hard question?
Julia
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Julia said:
Julia the palestinians never had a home and were always a nomadic wandering mob not really acknowleded by their fellow Arabs.
The spoils of WW2 for the allies was Palestine. Considering what happened to the JEWS in the holocaust and the action of Europe in appeasing Hitler, what would you have considered just?
Incidently pretty much every country has snatched land in war/hostility, England did it with Australia from the aborigines (killed most of them off in Tassie as well).
The Israelis fought off the Arabs in the Yon Kippur war, held their own ground and snatched some new stuff for buffer zones.
Much of the Arab nations have not gotten over this. The fact is they cannot oppose Israel militarily and have resorted to their terrorist activities since the 60s.
Some one on this thread said Israel invented Terrorism, what a pile of rubbish.
Nations that are not effective militarily or do not wish to invade a country resort to the use of rabid individuals as terrorists to inflict harm.Why do you think Hizzbolah are in the South next to Israel, to terrorize and why is the Leboneze Army not in the South. Why has Lebonan got an active Militia policing its Southern Border?
Julia said:
Julia,
perhaps I misunderstood your question,I`ll try again,
I hate social injustice I hate inequality,sexual and social,No I`m not Jewish,should that really matter?
In this instance hisbollah has been shown to have repeatedly lied,I`m of course relying on the media to tell me that,in many instances they have painted a pretty logical picture,I`m mystified as to what other bench mark I should be able to use to decide truth from fantasy.
As for the potted history lesson,in the world we live in these things would be negotiated,would I like someone to come and live in my territory and kick me out,this did not happen in Palestine and it`s not likely to happen here.
This Palestinian view may be popularly accepted but many more nations were involved initially before it got to be seen in such black and white way.
Would I like it,no.
Would I stay and be manipulated by politicians,no.
Would I endanger my childrens future and their lives,no
Julia,did you ever wonder how arafat was able to access such world standard health care,and how he was able to pay for it?and why he did`nt expect the same for his people?
After he died his wife and the inner circle were even fighting about HIS money,surely someone with that kind of money should`ve used it for the benefit of his dispossed people,why was his wife and inner circle fighting over it?And once the media lost interest in that story,what actually happened to it,he was rumoured to be worth billions.True or not,we never did find out.Or did I miss something.
After he died his wife and the inner circle were even fighting about HIS money,surely someone with that kind of money should`ve used it for the benefit of his dispossed people,why was his wife and inner circle fighting over it?And once the media lost interest in that story,what actually happened to it,he was rumoured to be worth billions.True or not,we never did find out.Or did I miss something.
So after all of the above arguments what conclusion did the forum members come to? Did the muslim fanatics blow the Twin Towers up, or was it done by the George Bush-CIA Inc.?
I've given it a simple test and my conclusion was that CIA was guilty, not of blowing the towers up but of not preventing them from being blown up by the muslim fanatics.
The test was based on the American Culture of taking legal action for any and every occasion that they think they can win, and thereby get huge financial rewards. 9/11 wasn't just any occasion. It was The Occasion which will be remembered for ever. Some three thousand people were killed and enormous financial losses were suffered by the occupiers and by those who dealt with them. If ever there was a case for a huge number of very expensive law suits against the U.S. Government - this would have been it. That is, if there was a shred of evidence connecting CIA or George Bush to it. It's almost five years now since the big event, and there have not been any legal action against the U.S. Government in relation to the huge loss of life and for the huge financial losses resulting from the 9/11 event.
Proof is in lack of proof, lack of any credible evidence against the CIA conspiracy theory. On the contrary, there is a lot of real evidence linking muslim extremists to this crime of the century. But even intelligent people will believe what they want to believe as we have seen on this thread.
anon
I've given it a simple test and my conclusion was that CIA was guilty, not of blowing the towers up but of not preventing them from being blown up by the muslim fanatics.
The test was based on the American Culture of taking legal action for any and every occasion that they think they can win, and thereby get huge financial rewards. 9/11 wasn't just any occasion. It was The Occasion which will be remembered for ever. Some three thousand people were killed and enormous financial losses were suffered by the occupiers and by those who dealt with them. If ever there was a case for a huge number of very expensive law suits against the U.S. Government - this would have been it. That is, if there was a shred of evidence connecting CIA or George Bush to it. It's almost five years now since the big event, and there have not been any legal action against the U.S. Government in relation to the huge loss of life and for the huge financial losses resulting from the 9/11 event.
Proof is in lack of proof, lack of any credible evidence against the CIA conspiracy theory. On the contrary, there is a lot of real evidence linking muslim extremists to this crime of the century. But even intelligent people will believe what they want to believe as we have seen on this thread.
anon
wayneL
VIVA LA LIBERTAD, CARAJO!
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I think everybodies position is quite clear on the Lebanon/Zion issue.
Now as this thread is about 911, let's get back on topic, if anyone has anything to add.
Cheers
Now as this thread is about 911, let's get back on topic, if anyone has anything to add.
Cheers
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