Ukraine War

Dona Ferentes said:

Most of the world's population?.... The ones in trucks on the Mexico/ US border, those in boats crossing the Med, the 200K that went out of Russia in the week after 24 Feb. Don't notice much flow the other way. Maybe Snowden is a hero, or Assange?

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You have to deny a lot of foreign policy over a long period of time in order to make that false equivalence.

againsthegrain said:

ah the self hating from the youtube education generation. If the west is so bad why are you still here? plenty of 3rd world heavens waiting with open arms and offering a better life

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Please read again as you are not the youtube generation or are you?
:"Most of the world's population would have reason to consider the West as the world's bully."
In no way does that phrase says that we(@3 hound here) consider ourself bully ..but ask the muslim world,with 300milions of them just a few kms from our northern frontier, the hundreds of millions in Pakistan and bangladesh, maybe even India..not to mention the 1.5 billions of chineses.
There are 1/2 millions migrants to France a year most of them hating the west yet very happy to enjoy the western advantages.
Do not expect these countries to support the US, and now the woke celebrated leftists taking over the whole of governments south of the Rio Grande hate the US..yet queue to cross the Trump wall
To not mistake your enemies, do not shot the messengers

3 hound said:

Low IQ response to be honest.

Do you believe in this war enough to go fight in it or you do you just want to see what market opportunities it creates?

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Not sure what it has to do with IQ but perhaps you feel threatened?

I find it quiet hypocritical that you will always bash the millenials and all the lazy on the dole who don't want to work hard rah rah
Yet you could relate to that in the global analogy.

The West is so bad and so horrible for being the evil capitalists that take advantage of everybody around. Yet "most" of the world all want to come and live in the west.

Look at Australia look at the USA we built those countries in a few 100 years to be what they are. Hard work, unity and structure.

Should we feel bad that other countries and cultures didn't have that drive? Yes to a certain degree the Anglo-Saxons did exploit alot of other countries and resources but they still haven't moved forward given the opportunities and chances.

Everybody has the right to live how they want to, some like to live in cities work and build.. others take a different path.

You say West is so bad and corrupt, look at most of South Asia and their cast systems. You are born into the wrong cast and your life is written for you. Don't get started on corruption too, much more and worst places then the West.

Yeah I was born In East Europe, the thought has crossed my mind if war spills over to the country where I came from before I became Aussie to go fight. I have dual passports, but having 2 kids makes it alot harder, otherwise I might be there.

qldfrog said:

Please read again as you are not the youtube generation or are you?
:"Most of the world's population would have reason to consider the West as the world's bully."
In no way does that phrase says that we(@3 hound here) consider ourself bully ..but ask the muslim world,with 300milions of them just a few kms from our northern frontier, the hundreds of millions in Pakistan and bangladesh, maybe even India..not to mention the 1.5 billions of chineses.
There are 1/2 millions migrants to France a year most of them hating the west yet very happy to enjoy the western advantages.
Do not expect these countries to support the US, and now the woke celebrated leftists taking over the whole of governments south of the Rio Grande hate the US..yet queue to cross the Trump wall
To not mistake your enemies, do not shot the messengers

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Yeah I understand your dissatisfaction with the woke movement and lefties and I am in the same boat here.
However I don't really see Russia or China as a better alternative or the good guys.
To me they are all the same, but for the sake of being angry and upset at the direction our governments are heading there is no way I can see Russia or China as the good guys. Have some first hand experience with Russia, more the Russian politics and those that blindly follow them. Russian culture and people are very good, just don't talk politics

againsthegrain said:

Not sure what it has to do with IQ but perhaps you feel threatened?

I find it quiet hypocritical that you will always bash the millenials and all the lazy on the dole who don't want to work hard rah rah
Yet you could relate to that in the global analogy.

The West is so bad and so horrible for being the evil capitalists that take advantage of everybody around. Yet "most" of the world all want to come and live in the west.

Look at Australia look at the USA we built those countries in a few 100 years to be what they are. Hard work, unity and structure.

Should we feel bad that other countries and cultures didn't have that drive? Yes to a certain degree the Anglo-Saxons did exploit alot of other countries and resources but they still haven't moved forward given the opportunities and chances.

Everybody has the right to live how they want to, some like to live in cities work and build.. others take a different path.

You say West is so bad and corrupt, look at most of South Asia and their cast systems. You are born into the wrong cast and your life is written for you. Don't get started on corruption too, much more and worst places then the West.

Yeah I was born In East Europe, the thought has crossed my mind if war spills over to the country where I came from before I became Aussie to go fight. I have dual passports, but having 2 kids makes it alot harder, otherwise I might be there.

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Are you replying to my post because nothing you said makes any sense or follows from anything I said WTF???

againsthegrain said:

Yeah I understand your dissatisfaction with the woke movement and lefties and I am in the same boat here.
However I don't really see Russia or China as a better alternative or the good guys.
To me they are all the same, but for the sake of being angry and upset at the direction our governments are heading there is no way I can see Russia or China as the good guys. Have some first hand experience with Russia, more the Russian politics and those that blindly follow them. Russian culture and people are very good, just don't talk politics

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I believe @3 hound ..and i would join him if it is his attempt, want people here in the west to realise that most probably a majority of humans on this earth either hate our guts or just do not see us as a model, and would be happy to see us collapse..not that they would not like to partake on the advantages as you pointed.
I do not especially like the Chinese or Russian gov...i lived 3y in China and visited Russia. Fully not keen on China, but i think i would prefer Russia to some of our woke European governments crying about the invasion of ukraine by Russia..cultural brothers but do not mind letting in millions of mostly young uneducated illegal muslim men flooding the country with abysmal assaults and rape figures as a consequence.
That does not happen in Russia.
Putin or not, i still see Russia as the last hope for European culture..so my partiality

qldfrog said:

I believe @3 hound ..and i would join him if it is his attempt, want people here in the west to realise that most probably a majority of humans on this earth either hate our guts or just do not see us as a model, and would be happy to see us collapse..not that they would not like to partake on the advantages as you pointed.
I do not especially like the Chinese or Russian gov...i lived 3y in China and visited Russia. Fully not keen on China, but i think i would prefer Russia to some of our woke European governments crying about the invasion of ukraine by Russia..cultural brothers but do not mind letting in millions of mostly young uneducated illegal muslim men flooding the country with abysmal assaults and rape figures as a consequence.
That does not happen in Russia.
Putin or not, i still see Russia as the last hope for European culture..so my partiality

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I mostly agree with your statement, however the Russian strong image doesn't want to make it loud but there is many tajiks dagestanis, chechens and other southerner non slavic muslins in Russia creating similar issues as in the west. At least in Russia they are alot more tough on it but the wokeness is filtrating there too.

Also putin unleashing Chechen and other poor young kids from the Caucasus to rape and pillage the "cultural brothers" is a hypocrisy to it. In the end its the same the big guys always take by force.. thats life

@againsthegrain , I assume you are replying to someone that has me on block/ Ignore. I am blessed.

Dona Ferentes said:

@againsthegrain , I assume you are replying to someone that has me on block/ Ignore. I am blessed.

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I'm in the same boat.

Good on whoever wins whatever argument.

Yours,

Confused.

gg

againsthegrain said:

ah the self hating from the youtube education generation. If the west is so bad why are you still here? plenty of 3rd world heavens waiting with open arms and offering a better life

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There's a difference between understanding the true nature of a situation and deciding what response to take.

In any situation where a bully is involved, you've really got three options:

1. Completely destroy them.

2. Suffer their ongoing bullying.

3. Join with them.

For an individual up against a government the first option generally isn't achievable which leaves suffer or join as the available options. That someone chooses to join doesn't necessarily mean they agree, it's just a less bad option personally when compared to suffering.

*Excerpt below from "The Insider" newsletter

In some scenarios, the side least likely to use nuclear weapons actually launches the first strike because they expect the other side to do so imminently.

The War in Ukraine has been on an escalatory path since the beginning. The US and EU retaliated against the Russia invasion with extreme financial sanctions, sophisticated weapons shipments, shared intelligence, financial resources, and more. Russia has retaliated with reductions in natural gas shipments, diversion of oil from Europe to Asia, limits on grain exports, and other tactics.

A part of Russia called Kaliningrad is located on the Baltic Sea but is cut off from the rest of Russia by Lithuania, which is a member of NATO and the EU. Lithuania has now imposed a ban on sanctioned items moving across its territory to supply Kaliningrad.

Russia will find ways to supply Kaliningrad, probably by sea from St. Petersburg.

Then Russia will retaliate against Lithuania and the EU with cyberwarfare and other forms of economic sabotage. The point is that the escalation continues.

And every day brings the world closer to nuclear war.

Not one person in a position of Western leadership seems to be paying attention.

The economic sanctions war against Russia has been going on as long as the war in Ukraine. The US and EU have taken the lead in imposing sanctions, but US allies including Canada, the UK, Australia, and Japan have been just as aggressive.

Interestingly, a lot of large developing economies have maintained a neutral status and have not gone along with sanctions, including Brazil, India, Saudi Arabia, China, and Turkey.

The sanctions have been a failure. It’s true that Russian growth has gone mildly negative, but it now seems to be recovering. The Russian ruble took a tumble immediately after the invasion but has since bounced back and is now stronger against the US dollar than it was before the invasion. Russian oil and natural gas revenues are up because of higher prices and because lost sales to Europe have easily been replaced with sales to new customers in Asia.

The West has suffered more from its own sanctions than Russia in the form of inflation, supply chain disruptions, and shortages of strategic metals, fertiliser, grain, and other critical Russian exports.

Telamelo said:

In some scenarios, the side least likely to use nuclear weapons actually launches the first strike because they expect the other side to do so imminently..

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You lost me at the first para.

Speaking of escalations, Ukrainians have been given the himars

Dona Ferentes said:

You lost me at the first para.

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In other words.. in war sometimes the side least likely to strike first with say a nuclear attack might otherwise do so first if the perceived threat from their opponent is heightened/imminent.

P.S. Wouldn't be surprised if NATO pulls the trigger first & launches a nuclear strike at Russia (if they perceive/believe Putin is about to do so)

less likely?

Telamelo said:

P.S. Wouldn't be surprised if NATO pulls the trigger first & launches a nuclear strike at Russia (if they perceive/believe Putin is about to do so)

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There is a minuscule chance that a nuclear weapon might be used here, and only when one side is backed into a corner they can not get out of. It’s a tool of very last resort. At the moment, it looks like Vlad is being pushed into a corner. Some punters think China might jump in to change the balance, but I think China might want to see Russia fail for their own grand strategic ambitions.

againsthegrain said:

Speaking of escalations, Ukrainians have been given the himars

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anyone just noticed how that main picture before clicking play is photo-shopped and is a duplicate of a single firing unit??look at the flag smoke etc
Propaganda..again and again..I try to get both extremes to guess estimate the middle /truh?...shopping mall destroyed to match G7 summit,..but empty parkings, etc etc...Are people still swallowing any of these daily BS?
But the escalation remains and I really believe people are vastly underestimating the nuke possibility.
A damaged Europe would be an option to get out of crisis for the US:
force the USD back as #1, allow use of emergency power and seizure BTC/gold, marshall plan v2 for europe so economic boost, qualified workforce selective migration..and 2 key competitors destroyed Russia for military and EU for economic.
I would genuinely not be surprised

Sean K said:

There is a minuscule chance that a nuclear weapon might be used here, and only when one side is backed into a corner they can not get out of. It’s a tool of very last resort. At the moment, it looks like Vlad is being pushed into a corner. Some punters think China might jump in to change the balance, but I think China might want to see Russia fail for their own grand strategic ambitions.

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not fail, but suffer and become dependent:
China will not allow Russia to lose if they can , as this would be a very bad first example for all the asian countries who could become the next Ukraine..
Whereas if Ukraine loses, well, Taiwaneses will know from the start where it will ends, as will Vietnamese, Korean, etc etc..
and Australians....
even if we are nowhere near as numerous as any of the above (but Taiwan which is similar to us)

Sean K said:

At the moment, it looks like Vlad is being pushed into a corner.

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Whereas I see the current situation really getting out of hands for Ukraine this month: You should widen your data feed @Sean K
->as i see it the whole dombass /south has fallen and Ukrainian (real) troops slaughtered with Odessa next in line soon.
Maybe a chance for peace as basically the Russian target seems now acquired but sadly for ukrainians ..and the world, the puppet (khaki Steve Job Tee Shirt) will fight to the latest Ukrainian alive.
I have to say the PR for Ukraine is bloody sophisticated and stunningly good(see above).
Ukraine definitively won that one..even if i somewhat doubt we can experience the other side .
Before heading to bed, I think we should have a thought for the thousands being bombarded, shot now as we exchange emoticons etc.
Both side, military or civilians.
War is evil, there is no good and bad, just a victorious side rewriting history at the end with an eraser and a highlighter

qldfrog said:

Whereas I see the current situation really getting out of hands for Ukraine this month: You should widen your data feed @Sean K
->as i see it the whole dombass /south has fallen and Ukrainian (real) troops slaughtered with Odessa next in line soon.
Maybe a chance for peace as basically the Russian target seems now acquired but sadly for ukrainians ..and the world, the puppet (khaki Steve Job Tee Shirt) will fight to the latest Ukrainian alive.
I have to say the PR for Ukraine is bloody sophisticated and stunningly good(see above).
Ukraine definitively won that one..even if i somewhat doubt we can experience the other side .
Before heading to bed, I think we should have a thought for the thousands being bombarded, shot now as we exchange emoticons etc.
Both side, military or civilians.
War is evil, there is no good and bad, just a victorious side rewriting history at the end with an eraser and a highlighter

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RE: "War is evil, there is no good and bad"

.. so bloody true!