Ukraine War

[mullokintyre]

I ask myself, if Australia faced such an aggressor would we be the same, standing tall, standing as one, being brave and courageous and proudly fighting for our freedom and our country?
Rhetorical question because I'm certain a lot of people across the planet have asked the very same of their homeland.

Nah, Australians would sit back and post on FB, Tic Toc and Twitter about its all the governments fault, and what are they going to do to help.
mick

 

[againsthegrain]

Perhaps we should be full tilt into building nuke bunkers and to do it properly, let's ask the Ukrainians stuck in Mariupol for blueprints, plans and pointers for said bunkers and hunkering down tactics.

Cheers for the tongue-in-cheek though, needed a tad of stress relief.

BOT (back on topic).
I really should start to refer to this conflict as a Defacto or, more aptly, a Clayton's WW3. The world war you're having when you're not having a world war.
I'm mean really, it is in a sense a World War. The world sanctions, the material and $$$ being sent from all over the world to fight the aggressor in a typical us against them scenario. The only thing missing, NATO and West militaries upon Ukrainian land, sea and air.

Of course no one (in the West) wants an all out war and so we ply Ukraine with the means and material to repel the aggressor. From that, we all see the price of freedom and the Ukrainians continue to show us how to pay and what the cost truly is. It is this fact that endears and bonds us so strongly with Ukraine.

I ask myself, if Australia faced such an aggressor would we be the same, standing tall, standing as one, being brave and courageous and proudly fighting for our freedom and our country?
Rhetorical question because I'm certain a lot of people across the planet have asked the very same of their homeland.

nope, Aussies would be too busy protesting "invasion day" and mining

 

[Value Collector]

If Ukraine is the new normal then we avert a real WWIII by never assisting any nation which is being attacked by a country possessing global nuclear strike capability.
In that context Taiwan would be hung out to dry and so would Australia.

Been happening for a long time, the Russians avoided openly engaging the USA when the USA invaded Korea and Vietnam, and the USA avoided engaging the Russians when the Russians invaded Afghanistan and other places and now Ukraine.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

After his men discovered the charred and bullet-ridden bodies of a thousand slave labourers murdered near the northern German town of Gardelegen in April 1945, US Army colonel George Lynch called the residents to a meeting.

“Some will say the Nazis were responsible for this crime. “Others will point to the Gestapo. The responsibility rests with neither – it is the responsibility of the German people,” he told them. “Your so-called master race has demonstrated that it is master only of crime, cruelty and sadism. You have lost the respect of the civilised world.”

My friend Tim's grandmother was a slave, a young Ukrainian woman taken to perform onerous work in awful conditions for four years. When liberated by the Russians, she made to the American lines and eventually Australia.

 

[basilio]

Just an update on how one might survive a tactical nuclear weapon blast. (I believe this a way of saying its only a small bomb..)
It seems to be a topical subject given the current hostilities in Ukraine and Russa letting everyone know they have plenty of bombs to spare.

Frankly I'm not sure I would want to survive. I added the final statements of the article. So someone really thinks there will be outside help if the bomb is dropped ?

How to survive a tactical nuclear bomb? Defence experts explain Published: April 20, 2022 6.16am AEST

Authors​

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There has been widespread discussion of Russia’s threat to use tactical nuclear weapons in its war on Ukraine.

Russia is estimated to have thousands of tactical nuclear weapons – possibly the world’s largest stockpile – which could be deployed at any time. The use of nuclear weapons is also embedded in Russian military doctrine. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has appealed to the rest of the world to take the threat seriously.

In this article we examine what would happen during a tactical nuclear bomb explosion, including the three stages of ignition, blast and radioactive fallout – and how one might be able to survive this.

..... Once you’ve found shelter, you’ll need to decontaminate. This will require a thorough scrub of the skin, nails and hair, and a change into clean clothing. But any severe burns should be tended to first. (This should all be quite straightforward... ?)

Hopefully by now the national authorities will have stepped in for rescue and medical treatment.

How to survive a tactical nuclear bomb? Defence experts explain

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has warned nations to prepare for the possibility that Russia will use tactical nuclear weapons.

theconversation.com

 

[basilio]

Back in 1964 the BBC commissioned Peter Watkins to produce a "documentary" on the effects of a nuclear war in Britain.
Peter promptly produced a very grim, very realistic portrayal of how a nuclear war might begin and the impact it would have.
The doco was immediately banned from screening.

If you want to see what a nuclear war would seriously look like check it out.
And for interest you can see why and how this very powerful story was spiked for many, many years.

The War Game: how I showed that BBC bowed to government over nuclear attack film

Controversy has raged down the years over whether the film was censored by the government. Now secret files reveal the truth after 50 years.

theconversation.com

 

[SirRumpole]

Opposition to Russia is spreading.

ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Trusted and independent source of local, national and world news. In-depth analysis, business, sport, weather and more.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Craton]

Nukes are extremely scary and don't come just in missile or bomb flavours.

From Wikipedia: Tactical Nuclear Weapon as opposed to a Strategic Nuclear Weapon.

A tactical nuclear weapon (TNW) or non-strategic nuclear weapon (NSNW)[1] is a nuclear weapon which is designed to be used on a battlefield in military situations, mostly with friendly forces in proximity and perhaps even on contested friendly territory. Generally smaller in explosive power, they are defined in contrast to strategic nuclear weapons, which are designed mostly to be targeted at the enemy interior away from the war front against military bases, cities, towns, arms industries, and other hardened or larger-area targets to damage the enemy's ability to wage war.

Will this aggressor be the first?

No tactical nuclear weapon has ever been used in a combat situation.

 

[Value Collector]

Nukes are extremely scary and don't come just in missile or bomb flavours.

From Wikipedia: Tactical Nuclear Weapon as opposed to a Strategic Nuclear Weapon.


Will this aggressor be the first?

Yep, they can be fired for artillery too, 1 nuclear artillery round would do more damage than a week of regular shelling, and certainly knock the wind out of an invading force coming over the hill.

 

[Craton]

Yep, they can be fired for artillery too, 1 nuclear artillery round would do more damage than a week of regular shelling, and certainly knock the wind out of an invading force coming over the hill.

Shocking to say the least and a lot more besides like in land mines and the Davy Crockett rifle as per the Wikipedia link.

Tactical nuclear weapons include gravity bombs, short-range missiles, artillery shells, land mines, depth charges, and torpedoes which are equipped with nuclear warheads. Also in this category are nuclear armed ground-based or shipborne surface-to-air missiles (SAMs) and air-to-air missiles. Small, two-man portable or truck-portable tactical weapons (sometimes misleadingly referred to as suitcase nukes), such as the Special Atomic Demolition Munition and the Davy Crockett recoilless rifle (recoilless smoothbore gun) have been developed, but the difficulty of combining sufficient yield with portability could limit their military utility. In wartime, such explosives could be used for demolishing "chokepoints" to enemy offensives, such as at tunnels, narrow mountain passes, and long viaducts.

The rifle:

It remains one of the smallest nuclear weapon systems ever built, with a yield of 20 tonnes of TNT (84 GJ).

On a different tack, this from Mariupol, video of life inside Azovstal, no English translation though...

 

[basilio]

Shocking to say the least and a lot more besides like in land mines and the Davy Crockett rifle as per the Wikipedia link.


The rifle:


On a different tack, this from Mariupol, video of life inside Azovstal, no English translation though...

The US were certainly in the lead with tactical nuclear weapons. Checked out the Davy Crockett missile. A couple of guys could lob a nuclear shell that was effectively 20 tonnes of TNT into a battle situation. That would make a bang !

It was eventually decommissioned.

Projectile, Atomic, Supercaliber 279mm XM388 for the Davy Crockett contained a W54 Mod 2 nuclear warhead. It was a very compact pure fission device weighing 50.9 pounds (23.1 kg) and when packaged in the M388 round weighed 76 pounds (34 kg). The weapon had an official yield of 20 tonnes of TNT (84 GJ) and contained 26 pounds (12 kg) of high explosives.[15][2]

The Davy Crcokett's nuclear warhead, the M388 was removed from US Army Europe (in West Germany) in August 1967.[11] The last nuclear-equipped warhead was retired in 1971.[12] Brigadier General Alvin Cowan, Assistant Division Commander of 3rd Armored Division, while stating the weapon was a "significant advance" in technical terms and that the laboratory responsible deserved "a great deal of credit", further stated that the Army retired the weapon due to the personnel costs associated with it as well as apparent "great fear that some sergeant would start a nuclear war".[13]

Davy Crockett (nuclear device) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Telamelo]

A large fire was reported early on Monday at an oil storage facility in the Russian city of Bryansk (380kms south west of Moscow), local news agencies reported, raising the prospect that Ukraine has struck targets within Russia.

 

[Craton]

@Telamelo seems there's plenty of fake news about that oil storage fire.

The Russian Energy Ministry said there was no threat to diesel and gasoline supplies in the Bryansk region after the incident and there were enough fuel stockpiles.

They say that, then this...

It added that the scale of the blaze was being assessed.

Anyways TASS reports that its been extinguished. NASA FIRMS (global fire map) also shows no fire there on the TODAY map as opposed to the 24 HRS map.

It matters not if the fire was created by Ukrainian armaments, sabotage, accident, incompetence or whatever; anything that stymies/slows down the supply chain to the invading aggressor surely, is viewed as a good thing.

 

[Craton]

25 Apr 2022 update from ISW reads in part:

April 25, 5:00 pm ET​

Russian forces conducted precision missile strikes against five Ukrainian railway stations in central and western Ukraine on April 25 in a likely effort to disrupt Ukrainian reinforcements to eastern Ukraine and Western aid shipments. A series of likely coordinated Russian missile strikes conducted within an hour of one another early on April 25 hit critical transportation infrastructure in Vinnytsia, Poltava, Khmelnytskyi, Rivne, and Zhytomyr oblasts.[1] Russian forces seek to disrupt Ukrainian reinforcements and logistics. The Kremlin may have additionally conducted this series of strikes—an abnormal number of precision missile strikes for one day—to demonstrate Russia’s ability to hit targets in Western Ukraine and to disrupt western aid shipments after US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin and US Secretary of State Antony Blinken’s surprise visit to Kyiv over the weekend. However, Russian precision strike capabilities will remain limited and unlikely to decisively affect the course of the war; open-source research organization Bellingcat reported on April 24 that Russia has likely used 70% of its total stockpile of precision missiles to date.[2]

Local Ukrainian counterattacks retook territory north of Kherson and west of Izyum in the past 24 hours. Russian forces continue to make little progress in scattered, small-scale attacks in eastern Ukraine. Ukrainian forces are successfully halting Russian efforts to bypass Ukrainian defensive positions around Izyum, and Russian forces are struggling to complete even tactical encirclements. Local Ukrainian counterattacks in Kherson Oblast are unlikely to develop into a larger counteroffensive in the near term but are disrupting Russian efforts to completely capture Kherson Oblast and are likely acting as a drain on Russian combat power that could otherwise support Russia’s main effort in eastern Ukraine.

 

[3 hound]

Just an update on how one might survive a tactical nuclear weapon blast. (I believe this a way of saying its only a small bomb..)
It seems to be a topical subject given the current hostilities in Ukraine and Russa letting everyone know they have plenty of bombs to spare.

Frankly I'm not sure I would want to survive. I added the final statements of the article. So someone really thinks there will be outside help if the bomb is dropped ?

How to survive a tactical nuclear bomb? Defence experts explain Published: April 20, 2022 6.16am AEST

Authors​

Print

There has been widespread discussion of Russia’s threat to use tactical nuclear weapons in its war on Ukraine.

Russia is estimated to have thousands of tactical nuclear weapons – possibly the world’s largest stockpile – which could be deployed at any time. The use of nuclear weapons is also embedded in Russian military doctrine. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has appealed to the rest of the world to take the threat seriously.

In this article we examine what would happen during a tactical nuclear bomb explosion, including the three stages of ignition, blast and radioactive fallout – and how one might be able to survive this.

..... Once you’ve found shelter, you’ll need to decontaminate. This will require a thorough scrub of the skin, nails and hair, and a change into clean clothing. But any severe burns should be tended to first. (This should all be quite straightforward... ?)

Hopefully by now the national authorities will have stepped in for rescue and medical treatment.

How to survive a tactical nuclear bomb? Defence experts explain

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has warned nations to prepare for the possibility that Russia will use tactical nuclear weapons.

theconversation.com

Duck and Cover.

 

[3 hound]

Anyone know the financial burden on Ukraine for funding their resistance, under what terms are they receiving war funding from the West??

I am assuming they require financial support??

 

[Sean K]

Anyone know the financial burden on Ukraine for funding their resistance, under what terms are they receiving war funding from the West??

I am assuming they require financial support??

It's in the 10s of billions in damages so far. In past war time the victor normally asks for reparations from the loser. For eg, it took Germany and Japan decades to pay off their surrender agreements through various instruments. The Ukraine will not defeat Russia though, so I think they will get free/cheap loans from the West to rebuild what they are left with after Russia stop their advance, which will be around the line of Russian speaking Ukrainians. I said at the start of this in another thread that it would be down the line of the Dnipro River from Kharkiv to Kherson. I think Russian want Odessa, but the Ukraine needs land / sea access and the World will not allow Russia to surround Ukraine and have complete control of the sea ports in the north Black Sea. By the way, if anyone thinks it was Ukrainian missiles that sunk that Russian ship, think again.

 

[3 hound]

It's in the 10s of billions in damages so far. In past war time the victor normally asks for reparations from the loser. For eg, it took Germany and Japan decades to pay off their surrender agreements through various instruments. The Ukraine will not defeat Russia though, so I think they will get free/cheap loans from the West to rebuild what they are left with after Russia stop their advance, which will be around the line of Russian speaking Ukrainians. I said at the start of this in another thread that it would be down the line of the Dnipro River from Kharkiv to Kherson. I think Russian want Odessa, but the Ukraine needs land / sea access and the World will not allow Russia to surround Ukraine and have complete control of the sea ports in the north Black Sea. By the way, if anyone thinks it was Ukrainian missiles that sunk that Russian ship, think again.

I was thinking who is funding the current effort not after the war is done.

I have a bad feeling Ukraine is getting in debt further (someone else is getting richer) only to prolong their own suffering.

 

[Sean K]

I was thinking who is funding the current effort not after the war is done.

I have a bad feeling Ukraine is getting in debt further (someone else is getting richer) only to prolong their own suffering.

The West will be paying for it to keep what's left of Ukraine in the EU and possibly NATO. It's exactly what Russia went to war to prevent, but exactly what they will get.

 

[3 hound]

The West will be paying for it to keep what's left of Ukraine in the EU and possibly NATO. It's exactly what Russia went to war to prevent, but exactly what they will get.

When you say "paying for it" do you mean funding them with no ties or interest?