Ukraine War

[The Triangle]

Where are they?

A labor party fundraiser somewhere in Sydney?

China is non aligned.

​

Agreed. China is not aligned with saving human life.

"NATO remains the principal security instrument of the transatlantic community and expression of its common democratic values. It is the practical means through which the security of North America and Europe are permanently tied together. NATO enlargement has furthered the U.S. goal of a Europe whole, free, and at peace."​

​

You must have accidently missed the paragraph before and after.

Formed in 1949 with the signing of the Washington Treaty, NATO is a security alliance of 30 countries from North America and Europe. NATO’s fundamental goal is to safeguard the Allies’ freedom and security by political and military means... Article 5 of the Washington Treaty — that an attack against one Ally is an attack against all — is at the core of the Alliance, a promise of collective defense.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your view) Ukraine is not an Ally. NATO is not responsible for a military intervention in Ukraine (although I wouldn't have an issue if they did have a crack).

This is China's official policy:

• China stands against the invocation of UN Charter Chapter VII that authorises the use of force and sanctions in United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions, but believes that the UNSC should play a constructive role in resolving the Ukraine issue.

Ok - So what is China doing to ensure the security council is playing a constructive role?

Let's not forget the Functions and Powers of the security council:

1. In order to ensure prompt and effective action by the United Nations, its Members confer on the Security Council primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security, and agree that in carrying out its duties under this responsibility the Security Council acts on their behalf.

 

[greggles]

Tell me more about China's actions....

OK, let's look at China's actions.

The day after the invasion, China lifted restrictions on Russian grain imports. It is also buying more Russian oil.

On 5 March, Hu Wei, chairman of the Shanghai Public Policy Research Association and a professor with Shanghai’s Communist Party school, authored this article titled Possible Outcomes of the Russo-Ukrainian War and China’s Choice which was published on the U.S.-China Perception Monitor (中美印象) website on 12 March after being translated into English.

The article reaches the conclusion that China should cut its ties with Putin or face further global isolation, and that China should not play both sides in an attempt to look neutral but take the mainstream position on the war.

The article quickly received attention within China and was just as quickly censored by the CCP when they were made aware of it. It has since completely disappeared from the Chinese internet.

Chinese state media has reporters embedded with Russian troops, shamelessly pushing pro-Russian and anti-Western narratives out to the Chinese public.

China has also been instrumental in proliferating disinformation about alleged US funded Ukrainian biolabs with Chinese state media giving Kremlin mouthpieces unchallenged mainstream media access.

It is plain to see what China is up to. Their actions speak louder than their duplicitous words ever could.

 

[rederob]

You must have accidently missed the paragraph before and after.

I linked to NATO's role so what is your point?
Clearly NATO is not living up to its practical commitments which state North America and Europe are permanently tied together.

Ok - So what is China doing to ensure the security council is playing a constructive role?

Had you read my previous comments you would know Russia can veto any actions and it has.

 

[rederob]

OK, let's look at China's actions.

The day after the invasion, China lifted restrictions on Russian grain imports. It is also buying more Russian oil.

Just like India, our Quad partner!
China made commercial arrangements before Russia invaded Ukraine and is abiding by them. And like Israel and dozens of other nations it is not applying sanctions.

On 5 March, Hu Wei, chairman of the Shanghai Public Policy Research Association and a professor with Shanghai’s Communist Party school, authored this article titled Possible Outcomes of the Russo-Ukrainian War and China’s Choice which was published on the U.S.-China Perception Monitor (中美印象) website on 12 March after being translated into English.

The article reaches the conclusion that China should cut its ties with Putin or face further global isolation, and that China should not play both sides in an attempt to look neutral but take the mainstream position on the war.

The article quickly received attention within China and was just as quickly censored by the CCP when they were made aware of it. It has since completely disappeared from the Chinese internet.

Yes, I think we all know that China's censorship laws are very different to ours.

Chinese state media has reporters embedded with Russian troops, shamelessly pushing pro-Russian and anti-Western narratives out to the Chinese public.

I have watched every one of them, and they report what they see and what they are told. Given they are real Russian people - not Chinese - representing CGTN, and have only reported from the eastern provinces that Russia wants to claim and, and that these provinces have have been in a war state since 2014 I am surprised that there is any Ukranian resistance left after a month of full-on war:

China has also been instrumental in proliferating disinformation about alleged US funded Ukrainian biolabs with Chinese state media giving Kremlin mouthpieces unchallenged mainstream media access.

You mean like invading Iraq because they possessed weapons of mass destructions. I am sure you remember how keenly John Howard jumped in on that without any credible evidence and despite being told it was not the case by UN inspectors on the ground.
Or how about continued attempts to blame China for leaking covid from a Wuhan lab, and Australia's call for this to be investigated. How is that different?
The real question to be asked on actual, not "alleged," US funded overseas biolabs is why they are under the purview of US Department of Defense rather than the CDC's National Institute for Health?

We seem to conveniently forget our past, and rather than pin the tail on the donkey (aka America's incompetent Democratic President), we choose to focus on China as the problem.
China is in the far east of Asia, not in Europe!
China is non aligned, and is definitely not a democracy, so has no skin in this game.

 

[sptrawler]

OMG Trump was right. ?
I certainly hope the woke, fight as hard to protect their home, as they do to undermine the society it is built in.

‘I am pissed off!’ German army official bemoans ‘bare’ forces as Russia invades Ukraine

Senior army official says Germany’s options to support its allies are extremely limited.

www.politico.eu

From the article:
BERLIN — Alfons Mais, the chief of the German army, has sharply criticized the state of the country’s armed forces, slamming underinvestment in its military equipment against the backdrop of a Russian invasion of Ukraine.

“The Bundeswehr, the army that I am privileged to lead, is more or less bare. The options that we can offer the politicians to support the alliance are extremely limited,” Mais wrote in a Linkedin post on Thursday morning.

“We all saw it coming and were not able to get through with our arguments, to draw the conclusions from the Crimean annexation and implement them. This does not feel good! I am pissed off!” Mais, a lieutenant-general, wrote.

 

[SirRumpole]

OMG Trump was right. ?
I certainly hope the woke, fight as hard to protect their home, as they do to undermine the society it is built in.

‘I am pissed off!’ German army official bemoans ‘bare’ forces as Russia invades Ukraine

Senior army official says Germany’s options to support its allies are extremely limited.

www.politico.eu

From the article:
BERLIN — Alfons Mais, the chief of the German army, has sharply criticized the state of the country’s armed forces, slamming underinvestment in its military equipment against the backdrop of a Russian invasion of Ukraine.

“The Bundeswehr, the army that I am privileged to lead, is more or less bare. The options that we can offer the politicians to support the alliance are extremely limited,” Mais wrote in a Linkedin post on Thursday morning.

“We all saw it coming and were not able to get through with our arguments, to draw the conclusions from the Crimean annexation and implement them. This does not feel good! I am pissed off!” Mais, a lieutenant-general, wrote.

Yes he was right. Europe is mollycoddled with American defence spending as well as tarriffs on agricultural products from other countries

They needed a kick up the backside. Trump gave them one, now so has Putin.

Will they learn the lesson ?

 

[sptrawler]

Yes he was right. Europe is mollycoddled with American defence spending as well as tarriffs on agricultural products from other countries

They needed a kick up the backside. Trump gave them one, now so has Putin.

Will they learn the lesson ?

In a word No.
They are like us, they are more focused on trashing the middle class, so everyone is on welfare then getting enough barista's won't be a problem.
It is a bit like Thailand and Bali, when tourism is pumping, there is no unemployment, that will be Australia in 50 years IMO.
Actually that is wrong, Thailand is already further up the industrialisation index, than Australia.

 

[SirRumpole]

In a word No.
They are like us, they are more focused on trashing the middle class, so everyone is on welfare then getting enough barista's won't be a problem.
It is a bit like Thailand and Bali, when tourism is pumping, there is no unemployment, that will be Australia in 50 years IMO.
Actually that is wrong, Thailand is already further up the industrialisation index, than Australia.

The new German Chancellor may have seen the light.

Olaf Scholz (German: [ˈoːlaf ˈʃɔlts] (listen)) (born 14 June 1958) is a German politician who has served as the chancellor of Germany since 8 December 2021. A member of the Social Democratic Party (SPD), he previously served as Vice Chancellor under Angela Merkel and as Federal Minister of Finance from 2018 to 2021. He was also First Mayor of Hamburg from 2011 to 2018 and deputy leader of the SPD from 2009 to 2019. Following the 2021 German federal election, Scholz's federal government is a traffic light coalition composed of his SPD, the Greens and the Free Democratic Party (FDP).

Scholz is a lawyer specialising in labour and employment law. He became a member of the SPD in the 1970s and was a member of the Bundestag from 1998 to 2011. He served in the Hamburg Government under First Mayor Ortwin Runde in 2001, before his election as General Secretary of the SPD in 2002, serving alongside SPD leader and then-Chancellor Gerhard Schröder. He became his party's Chief Whip in the Bundestag, later entering the First Merkel Government in 2007 as Minister of Labour and Social Affairs. After the SPD quit the government following the 2009 election, Scholz returned to lead the SPD in Hamburg, and was elected Deputy Leader of the SPD. He led his party to victory in the 2011 Hamburg state election, and became First Mayor, holding that position until 2018.

After the SPD entered the Fourth Merkel Government in 2018, Scholz was appointed as both Minister of Finance and Vice Chancellor of Germany. In 2020, he was nominated as the SPD's candidate for Chancellor of Germany for the 2021 federal election. The party won a plurality of seats in the Bundestag and formed a coalition with the Greens and the FDP. On 8 December 2021, Scholz was elected and sworn in as Chancellor by the Bundestag.

As Chancellor, Scholz oversaw the 2021–2022 Russo-Ukrainian crisis, halting the approval of Nord Stream 2. Following the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Scholz announced a complete reversal of German military and foreign policy, including shipping weapons to Ukraine and dramatically increasing Germany's defense budget.

I wonder if he will be hampered by his alliance with the Greens, who probably want more arts and crafts centres instead of weapons.

 

[basilio]

A little far fetched? Certainly hope so..

 

[bluekelah]

I’m speaking out against it, letting everyone know that Putin & Russia are war mongers and that I want all politicians to yell and scream at Putin to STOP and leave the Ukraine.

I am also donating, some of my friends are donating and one of our friends speaks Ukrainian and has created a gofundme page.

Everyone should speak up against this war, the more we all shout the bigger we become.

People don’t need to go and fight to show their support for Ukraine ?? People just need to do what they can, every bit counts.

Americans are pretty good warmongers too, they profit a lot from all the conflicts by selling arms. You can see them engage in so many conflicts. Vietnam/Gulf war/Yugoslav wars/Afghanistan/etc.. list goes on

List of armed conflicts involving the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Russia supplies a lot of the world's important commodities, lotsa important industrial metals like nickel/palladium/etc..

Russia’s Top 10 Exports​

1. Mineral fuels including oil: US$211.5 billion (43% of total exports)
2. Gems, precious metals: $31.6 billion (6.4%)
3. Iron, steel: $28.9 billion (5.9%)
4. Fertilizers: $12.5 billion (2.5%)
5. Wood: $11.7 billion (2.4%)
6. Machinery including computers: $10.7 billion (2.2%)
7. Cereals(lotsa wheat): $9.1 billion (1.9%)
8. Aluminum: $8.8 billion (1.8%)
9. Ores, slag, ash: $7.4 billion (1.5%)
10. Plastics, plastic articles: $6.2 billion (1.3%)

Even germany and many other european countries are trying to source for more oil/gas, but unable to sanction Russian gas and is still lapping it up. https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-rejects-calls-for-banning-russian-oil-and-gas/

So nothing is gonna stop Russia from eventually getting what they want in Ukraine. Sanctions are just a joke, even more so as I would say most of the world is not able to stay afloat if they were to do complete sanctions. Russians have plenty of resources to be self sufficent as well.

Russians just taking their time in order to capture as much infrastructure as they can intact. They already have major power plants, water supply, telcoms and full control of the airspace. And if the ukrainians continue to put military hardware next to hospitals and schools, then there's just going to be more collateral damage.

Yelling and screaming doesnt solve problems. There has to be negotiations between both sides. Recently Biden calling Putin a War criminal is not going to help anything. Just like in the 1960s cuban missile crisis, there were talks for like 13days or so before both sides finally agreed to decommission the nuke launch sites in both Turkey and Cuba.

 

[JohnDe]

Americans are pretty good warmongers too, they profit a lot from all the conflicts by selling arms. You can see them engage in so many conflicts. Vietnam/Gulf war/Yugoslav wars/Afghanistan/etc.. list goes on

List of armed conflicts involving the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Russia supplies a lot of the world's important commodities, lotsa important industrial metals like nickel/palladium/etc..

Russia’s Top 10 Exports​

1. Mineral fuels including oil: US$211.5 billion (43% of total exports)
2. Gems, precious metals: $31.6 billion (6.4%)
3. Iron, steel: $28.9 billion (5.9%)
4. Fertilizers: $12.5 billion (2.5%)
5. Wood: $11.7 billion (2.4%)
6. Machinery including computers: $10.7 billion (2.2%)
7. Cereals(lotsa wheat): $9.1 billion (1.9%)
8. Aluminum: $8.8 billion (1.8%)
9. Ores, slag, ash: $7.4 billion (1.5%)
10. Plastics, plastic articles: $6.2 billion (1.3%)

Even germany and many other european countries are trying to source for more oil/gas, but unable to sanction Russian gas and is still lapping it up. https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-rejects-calls-for-banning-russian-oil-and-gas/

So nothing is gonna stop Russia from eventually getting what they want in Ukraine. Sanctions are just a joke, even more so as I would say most of the world is not able to stay afloat if they were to do complete sanctions. Russians have plenty of resources to be self sufficent as well.

Russians just taking their time in order to capture as much infrastructure as they can intact. They already have major power plants, water supply, telcoms and full control of the airspace. And if the ukrainians continue to put military hardware next to hospitals and schools, then there's just going to be more collateral damage.

Yelling and screaming doesnt solve problems. There has to be negotiations between both sides. Recently Biden calling Putin a War criminal is not going to help anything. Just like in the 1960s cuban missile crisis, there were talks for like 13days or so before both sides finally agreed to decommission the nuke launch sites in both Turkey and Cuba.

"Yelling and screaming doesnt solve problems." History does not back up your comment.

Protests and demonstrations are an integral part of democracy.

People in power and governments take note, they may be reluctant and slow but eventually they all take note and change in some way. If people are lucky enough to live in a democracy they'll see change happen quicker and safer than the peoples in authoritarian regimes and dictatorships.

‘Better to die on your feet, than live on your knees’

"Americans are pretty good warmongers too" Show me a major nation from the past 3000+ years that hasn't been involved in war. And while you're at it, explain to me the reason for Russia's invasions of the Ukraine.

Putin has set Russia back 50 years. Yes there may have been grievances caused by all sides, but a smart and wise leader could have and should have planned and implemented a prosperous and safe future for their people. Putin should have continued with the democratisation of Russia, negotiated membership into the European Union and then with NATO.

The 'yelling and screaming' of the many peoples of many countries may waver but it will never stop, those voices remind governments and leaders that change is required, and elections are the final yell.

Sanctions on Russia and assistance to the Ukraine are making other countries think twice about invasion.

List of protests against the Vietnam War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JohnDe]

It is said that Mr Putin is obsessed with a video capturing the final moments of Libyan dictator Moamar Gaddafi.
"That's his worst nightmare," former CIA agent.
"I heard that Putin was greatly affected watching crowds ridicule, torture and ultimately kill Gaddafi."
That fear, according to experts, could drive the Russian President to hit Ukraine even harder in the coming weeks.
"If Putin yields, it's over for him," political scientist Ivan Krastev told Der Spiegel.
"He has to escalate in order to force the Ukrainians to capitulate.

In the Russia-Ukraine information war, propaganda master Vladimir Putin is being outdone by savvy Volodomyr Zelenskyy
By Rebecca Armitage and Lucy Sweeney

A former spy who spent half a century cutting a ruthless path to global dominance, Vladimir Putin strutted confidently into his one and only meeting with Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

His Ukrainian opponent was, after all, a comedic actor whose only political experience was playing a president on television.

He was also ridiculously young — practically a millennial.

Both men may have been born in the Soviet Union, but only Mr Putin was old enough to remember its implosion. And only Mr Putin was determined to recover what he believed was lost.

And so Mr Putin arrived for their 2019 meeting in Paris, chaperoned by Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron, with his usual pomp and ceremony.

As always, he was late so he could make an entrance.

He rolled up to the Elysee Palace in an Aurus Senat, a seven-tonne Russian limousine often described as a counterfeit Rolls Royce.

Mr Zelenskyy, meanwhile, had arrived a little early in a mini-van.

The then 41-year-old had a lot at stake.

Six months after his landslide election victory, he was under intense pressure to get Russia out of rebel-held territory in Ukraine's east.

And after eight hours, the four leaders walked out of the room with an agreement: Ukraine and Russia would try to honour a five-year-old ceasefire that had, until then, been largely ignored.

In a post-summit press conference, Mr Putin projected faint optimism, saying a "thaw" had occurred in frosty relations between the two neighbours.

But Mr Zelenskyy spoke with honesty.

"I would have liked to have seen more," he said.

"It is vital for Ukraine to restore control of the entire length of its border."

It was the young Ukrainian's first flash of defiance to the Goliath at the other end of the table.

Two years later, Mr Putin would order Russian tanks and troops deep into Ukrainian territory.

But just as he did in the gilded meeting hall in Paris, Mr Zelenskyy defied expectations.

With the charisma of a TV star, the wardrobe of an action hero, and the social media strategy of a savvy influencer, Mr Zelenskyy is fighting — and winning — the information war.

And Mr Putin, once considered the master of propaganda, is finding himself outmatched.

'It's too late for Russia to change the narrative'​

As Mr Putin sent the full force of the Russian military across the border in late February, Mr Zelenskyy knew the odds were not in his favour.

Ukraine spent $6.3 billion on defence last year. Russia spent $62 billion.

Mr Zelenskyy had just over 1 million active troops and reservists at the ready. Mr Putin had 2.9 million.

But wars are not only fought and won on the battlefield.

If he was going to galvanise support from the West in the form of sanctions and military intelligence and weaponry, he needed to win the information war.

"Ukraine isn't just winning the battle for hearts and minds online, it has already won," US defence expert PW Singer wrote in Politico.

"And now it's too late for Russia to change the narrative."

Dressed in a khaki T-shirt and a hoodie, Mr Zelenskyy has stood his ground in Ukraine's capital, even as it turned into a war zone.

"I am here," he said in a video viewed 3 million times in its first hour on Instagram.

"We will protect our country. Our weapon is truth. And the truth is that it is our land. Our country. Our children. And we will protect it. That is it. That's what I wanted to tell you. Glory to Ukraine."

Mr Zelenskyy's government has adopted a modern and relentless communication strategy.

They have bombarded Russia's official social media accounts with sassy memes, packaged tales of heroism and tragedy to go viral, and deployed the President to talk to everyone from the United States Congress to actors Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis.

Meanwhile, Mr Putin has reached for a familiar playbook, according to Bart Cammaerts, a professor of communications at the London School of Economics.

"Violent repression, censorship, coercion, obfuscation and cynical distortions, presenting an alternate reality befitting the Russian worldview and interests, mostly geared towards shoring up internal legitimacy," he said.

While this strategy might be working within Russia, experts say Mr Putin appears to have vastly miscalculated on three key issues.

Not only did he overestimate Russia's military power, he greatly underestimated Ukraine's determination and the West's support for his rival Mr Zelenskyy.

So how did a man once widely seen as a master chess player thinking several steps ahead of the rest of the world find himself in this situation?

Putin is obsessed with the past and Russian supremacy​

For years, Mr Putin's fixation with the past served him well.

While other world leaders thought in terms of election cycles, he was trying to restore Russia to an ancient glory.

When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, Russian officials were quick to replace the paintings of Communist leaders that adorned their offices with portraits of the new president, Boris Yeltsin.

But a young Mr Putin, working as mayor Anatoly Sobchak's personal assistant, chose the all-powerful tsar Peter the Great for the new decor instead.

A visionary ruler who transformed Russia from an isolated outpost into a sizeable world power seems a fitting role model for a modern leader coming of age as the Soviet Union battled the US for supremacy.

But Peter the Great built his legacy with an unrelenting, battle-ready approach, hell-bent on delivering Russia a "window to Europe" via the Black Sea.

It's said that both Peter and his successor, Catherine the Great — who overthrew her husband Peter III and continued to modernise Russia while ruthlessly expanding its territory — still adorn Mr Putin's office walls today.

The Russian President has echoed his predecessors' aspirations to ensure the rest of the world respects his motherland, at any cost.

In 2005, he famously described the fall of the Soviet Union as "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century", and in the years since he has tiptoed towards an all-out mission to revive those glory days.

"He goes to bed at night thinking of Peter the Great and he wakes up thinking of Stalin," former US intelligence committee chair Mike Rogers observed in 2014, while Putin's troops were annexing Crimea just as Catherine the Great had done in 1783.

Many have played down the comparisons in recent years, but Mr Putin's speech last week, in which he called Russians who do not support the war "scum and traitors" and advocated a "self-purification" of the nation, has been described as his "most Stalinesque" diatribe yet.

With the United Nations' highest court now investigating the atrocities of Mr Putin's war in Ukraine and the world nervously monitoring the fallout inside Russia, Western leaders have described him as a war criminal and a murderous dictator.

The vibe shift comes for everyone, even Putin​

The Russian President wants to be seen as a political strongman who won't be pushed around.

In projecting this image, the Kremlin has churned out a macho persona — frequently releasing photos of the President fishing and horseriding while shirtless, trekking through the Siberian wilderness and flexing his muscles.

"Rarely has the leader of a global power embraced the staged publicity still with such creative, yet cliched, fervour, not just feeding the global desire for a caricature of himself, but actually creating it," Vanessa Friedman wrote in the New York Times last year.

But that message relies on an old-fashioned propaganda machine that is now proving no match for the slick social media stylings of his opponent.

Mr Putin's state-owned media channels are facing bans outside Russia and a steady stream of resignations, as Mr Zelenskyy's lo-fi selfies on the streets of Kyiv and late-night videos inside his presidential office are being seen by millions around the world.

While Mr Zelenskyy was being called Winston Churchill in a hoodie, Mr Putin was ridiculed for wearing an $18,000 jacket to a rally in Moscow.


In his bid to install himself as Vladimir the Great, Mr Putin has walked the tightrope of wooing the West while strengthening Russia's status on the world stage.

That carefully crafted image is now crumbling.

It is said that Mr Putin is obsessed with a graphic video capturing the final moments of Libyan dictator Moamar Gaddafi in 2011.

"That's his worst nightmare," former CIA agent Douglas London told iNews.

"I heard that Putin was greatly affected watching crowds ridicule, torture and ultimately kill Gaddafi."

That fear, according to experts, could drive the Russian President to hit Ukraine even harder in the coming weeks.

"If Putin yields, it's over for him," political scientist Ivan Krastev told Der Spiegel.

"He has to escalate in order to force the Ukrainians to capitulate.

"But Zelenskyy is precisely the person that would never sign such an agreement."

 

[bluekelah]

"Yelling and screaming doesnt solve problems." History does not back up your comment.

Protests and demonstrations are an integral part of democracy.

People in power and governments take note, they may be reluctant and slow but eventually they all take note and change in some way. If people are lucky enough to live in a democracy they'll see change happen quicker and safer than the peoples in authoritarian regimes and dictatorships.

‘Better to die on your feet, than live on your knees’

"Americans are pretty good warmongers too" Show me a major nation from the past 3000+ years that hasn't been involved in war. And while you're at it, explain to me the reason for Russia's invasions of the Ukraine.

Putin has set Russia back 50 years. Yes there may have been grievances caused by all sides, but a smart and wise leader could have and should have planned and implemented a prosperous and safe future for their people. Putin should have continued with the democratisation of Russia, negotiated membership into the European Union and then with NATO.

The 'yelling and screaming' of the many peoples of many countries may waver but it will never stop, those voices remind governments and leaders that change is required, and elections are the final yell.

Sanctions on Russia and assistance to the Ukraine are making other countries think twice about invasion.

List of protests against the Vietnam War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hahha yeah so u admit that americans are war mongerers too eh..invade , liberate , potayto , potaato., it's all the same, war is war, doesn't matter the reason, civilian will always be collateral damage.

Anyways I have already explained in previous posts a while back, the main reason for invasion is pretty simple. Romania in 2015 completed an aegis ashore missile 'defence' system. Despite claims for defence, this american produced launch system site has tomahawk nuclear ICBM capability, so nukes can be in range of major Russian cities. A second aegis system is to be completed pretty soon thus year in Poland, despite Russia's constant displeasure. Yes so a secondary NATO nuclear capable launch sites to be aimed at russia. Ukraine was on track to join NATO and well possible candidate for aegis system

This is similar to 1960s Cuban missile crisis when the Americans started building secret nuke missile sites in Turkey which were in range of russia and USSR had to ship nukes to Cuba in reply and almost brought the world to nuclear war if not for negotiations which saw dismantling of sites on both sides.

Americans currently have China's eastern and southern seafront surrounded with American bases manned with military personnel in Taiwan Japan phillipines south Korea,etc. I am sure many will have strike capabilities within range of Chinese cities, though no installations of nukes capable systems in any of those countries yet. IF they were to be brazen enough to put in an aegis system or have plans for that in Japan or phillipines I can assure u China will be Liberating south Korea, Taiwan and possibly Japan too.

So yeah this conflict is just a result of russia feeling massively insecure with nuke sites pointed at them and they need to do something about it Period. I believe this was one of the main ceasefire demand from Russia ==""The Russia document also calls for the two countries to pull back any short- or medium-range missile systems out of reach, replacing the previous intermediate-range nuclear forces (INF) treaty that the US left in 2018""

Russia issues list of demands it says must be met to lower tensions in Europe

Contentious security guarantees Moscow is seeking include a ban on Ukraine from entering Nato

www.theguardian.com

 

[greggles]

So yeah this conflict is just a result of russia feeling massively insecure with nuke sites pointed at them and they need to do something about it.

This is Russia's own doing. Russia has brutalised its neighbours for decades, driving them to the West for security and a better quality of life. The West didn't come to Central and Eastern Europe; Central and Eastern Europe came to the West. Russia (Putin rather) has scored a huge own goal here and will pay for it for decades. The Russian economy will contract and shrink in the years to come and the quality of life for the average Russian will significantly decline. Infrastructure will crumble. The reality is the world doesn't need Russia, but Russia needs the rest of the world... and it has just lost most of it for a very long time.

 

[JohnDe]

I have already explained in previous posts a while back, the main reason for invasion is pretty simple. Romania in 2015 completed an aegis ashore missile 'defence' system. Despite claims for defence, this american produced launch system site has tomahawk nuclear ICBM capability, so nukes can be in range of major Russian cities. A second aegis system is to be completed pretty soon thus year in Poland, despite Russia's constant displeasure. Yes so a secondary NATO nuclear capable launch sites to be aimed at russia. Ukraine was on track to join NATO and well possible candidate for aegis system

This is similar to 1960s Cuban missile crisis when the Americans started building secret nuke missile sites in Turkey which were in range of russia and USSR had to ship nukes to Cuba in reply and almost brought the world to nuclear war if not for negotiations which saw dismantling of sites on both sides.

Americans currently have China's eastern and southern seafront surrounded with American bases manned with military personnel in Taiwan Japan phillipines south Korea,etc. I am sure many will have strike capabilities within range of Chinese cities, though no installations of nukes capable systems in any of those countries yet. IF they were to be brazen enough to put in an aegis system or have plans for that in Japan or phillipines I can assure u China will be Liberating south Korea, Taiwan and possibly Japan too.

So yeah this conflict is just a result of russia feeling massively insecure with nuke sites pointed at them and they need to do something about it.

You are posting hearsay and Putin paranoia.

Both sides have a different story, one side has a free press and independent law system. The other is controlled by a dictator, has no free press or free judicial system. Which do you prefer?

If you're giving reasons to Putin's mad invasion scheming, then yes I agree, Putin is mad and has invaded for no sound reason other than the reasons of a paranoid man.

The only thing that we have with respect to capabilities is the ability to launch SM-3 Block IB interceptors against ballistic missiles inbound from Iran," Commander John Fitzpatrick told RFE/RL in the control room of the missile-defense base.​

​

Fitzpatrick said the 24 SM-3 ballistic-missile interceptors at the facility were mounted on a Mark 41 Vertical Launch System. The same launchers can be used to fire a range of surface-to-air missiles as well as Tomahawk cruise missiles and other offensive weapons.​

​

But Fitzpatrick said the way those launchers had been "configured" and "installed" meant that "the only thing it can launch are those SM-3 ballistic missile interceptors."​

​

"There is no other capability that this site has right now, and it would take extensive changes, industrial-scale changes, to make any difference," Fitzpatrick explained.​

​

In the main operation center of the facility, the ambassadors and journalists were allowed to see the consoles used by U.S. Navy sailors to control the missile-defense shield -- which has never fired a missile and is banned from carrying out test launches.​

​

Each operator's station at Deveselu contains three computer screens along with communication systems and launch switches that would be engaged to fire the SM-3s at any incoming missiles during an attack on Europe.​

Maybe you should be looking a bit closer at all involved, Macron may have made his remarks "just to provoke reaction."

No nation or leader is pure and innocent, but most have rules in place that make it very difficult to go to invade and go to war for ownership of another's land.

As mentioned previously, a smart and wise leader could have and should have planned and implemented a prosperous and safe future for their people. Putin should have continued with the democratisation of Russia, negotiated membership into the European Union and then with NATO.

No amount of NATO and U.S. assurances, treaty obligations, or hardware and software changes would be sufficient to prevent the Russians from repeating their false narratives, partly because these narratives serve their own political purposes regardless of whether U.S. missile defense deployments to Europe are militarily significant. The Putin regime considers NATO its adversary and presents itself as a protector of Russia’s interests and sovereignty to score domestic political points.[33] Indeed, given the abysmal state of Russia’s economy, the regime’s authoritarian tendencies, suppression of civil society, and widespread corruption, President Putin does not have many domestic achievements to point to when attracting popular support.​

 

[bluekelah]

You are posting hearsay and Putin paranoia.

Both sides have a different story, one side has a free press and independent law system. The other is controlled by a dictator, has no free press or free judicial system. Which do you prefer?

If you're giving reasons to Putin's mad invasion scheming, then yes I agree, Putin is mad and has invaded for no sound reason other than the reasons of a paranoid man.

The only thing that we have with respect to capabilities is the ability to launch SM-3 Block IB interceptors against ballistic missiles inbound from Iran," Commander John Fitzpatrick told RFE/RL in the control room of the missile-defense base.​

​

Fitzpatrick said the 24 SM-3 ballistic-missile interceptors at the facility were mounted on a Mark 41 Vertical Launch System. The same launchers can be used to fire a range of surface-to-air missiles as well as Tomahawk cruise missiles and other offensive weapons.​

​

But Fitzpatrick said the way those launchers had been "configured" and "installed" meant that "the only thing it can launch are those SM-3 ballistic missile interceptors."​

​

"There is no other capability that this site has right now, and it would take extensive changes, industrial-scale changes, to make any difference," Fitzpatrick explained.​

​

In the main operation center of the facility, the ambassadors and journalists were allowed to see the consoles used by U.S. Navy sailors to control the missile-defense shield -- which has never fired a missile and is banned from carrying out test launches.​

​

Each operator's station at Deveselu contains three computer screens along with communication systems and launch switches that would be engaged to fire the SM-3s at any incoming missiles during an attack on Europe.​

Maybe you should be looking a bit closer at all involved, Macron may have made his remarks "just to provoke reaction."

No nation or leader is pure and innocent, but most have rules in place that make it very difficult to go to invade and go to war for ownership of another's land.

As mentioned previously, a smart and wise leader could have and should have planned and implemented a prosperous and safe future for their people. Putin should have continued with the democratisation of Russia, negotiated membership into the European Union and then with NATO.

No amount of NATO and U.S. assurances, treaty obligations, or hardware and software changes would be sufficient to prevent the Russians from repeating their false narratives, partly because these narratives serve their own political purposes regardless of whether U.S. missile defense deployments to Europe are militarily significant. The Putin regime considers NATO its adversary and presents itself as a protector of Russia’s interests and sovereignty to score domestic political points.[33] Indeed, given the abysmal state of Russia’s economy, the regime’s authoritarian tendencies, suppression of civil society, and widespread corruption, President Putin does not have many domestic achievements to point to when attracting popular support.​

Now wanting europe to pay for oil and gas in rubles doesnt sound like a mad man , i believe the oligarchy and other big players from the days of the Soviet era are involved as well.

https://www.nst.com.my/world/world/2022/03/782659/putin-tells-europe-pay-gas-rubles

Russia/china/Brazil and other Emerging nations who do not want to be under the control of USD are likely to be thinking of implementing maybe russo-sino petro currency.

If u study history, u will understand that the notion of russia joining NATO is not possible.

More importantly, Most of the world is undergoing massive inflation now and likely a recession/stagflation soon as well ala 1970s again.

I have hedged my bets by getting more exposure to gold, oil and other commodities stocks. It would be prudent to stock up on daily necessities as well as some fuel. Most younger Australians will not remember the days when we had 15percent interest rates and fuel shortages.

 

[JohnDe]

Now wanting europe to pay for oil and gas in rubles doesnt sound like a mad man , i believe the oligarchy and other big players from the days of the Soviet era are involved as well.

Mad and insane has nothing to do with necessity, desperation, business and greed

 

[JohnDe]

Russia/china/Brazil and other Emerging nations who do not want to be under the control of USD are likely to be thinking of implementing maybe russo-sino petro currency.

If u study history, u will understand that the notion of russia joining NATO is not possible.

History? The thing with the past and the future is that they are always evolving. There is historical evidence that Kiev is 2000 years old.

The USSR would never join NATO, but a free and democratic Russia open to the world, without fear and paranoia could and would join the European Union and then NATO. Which would lead to a new world peace and demilitarization similar to the end of the Cold War.

Putin could have been a part of so much great change, instead he chose history.

Remove Putin and his cronies, and then Russia and Europe have a chance.

 

[divs4ever]

UMMmm , wasn't NATO formulated specifically to resist/destroy the Soviet Union ( NOT China , Afghanistan , Yugoslavia or Iraq )

seems we have a pit-bull without any rival to fight ( in it's own backyard )



BTW you should be more worried about a self-destructive EU ( i am )

 

[JohnDe]

UMMmm , wasn't NATO formulated specifically to resist/destroy the Soviet Union ( NOT China , Afghanistan , Yugoslavia or Iraq )

seems we have a pit-bull without any rival to fight ( in it's own backyard )



BTW you should be more worried about a self-destructive EU ( i am )

To stay relevant you must move and change with the times.

Security in our daily lives is key to our well-being. NATO’s purpose is to guarantee the freedom and security of its members through political and military means.​

​

POLITICAL - NATO promotes democratic values and enables members to consult and cooperate on defence and security-related issues to solve problems, build trust and, in the long run, prevent conflict.​

​

MILITARY - NATO is committed to the peaceful resolution of disputes. If diplomatic efforts fail, it has the military power to undertake crisis-management operations. These are carried out under the collective defence clause of NATO's founding treaty - Article 5 of the Washington Treaty or under a United Nations mandate, alone or in cooperation with other countries and international organisations.​

This is why I mentioned that Russia could have joined the EU and NATO, if Putin had continued Russia's democratisation (there are a few articles written of this).

What is NATO?

An introduction to NATO that provides basic information on what NATO is, member countries, the Alliance's key activities and how it functions. NATO's general evolution is shown in video and links to more in-depth information are provided throughout.

www.nato.int