U.S. Presidential Election 2020

[moXJO]

I think the overall public response from the 60 minutes interviews with Trump and Biden will tip this election into a Biden landslide.
Trumps inability to articulate any sort of policy beyond being re elected and his aggression against anything resembling a "tough"question makes him completely unsuitable to be President.

CBS releases footage of Trump walking out of 60 Minutes interview

US president halts recording after question about his use of social media and name-calling

www.theguardian.com

’60 Minutes’ Airs Controversial Trump Interview – With Fact-Checks

'60 Minutes' aired significant portions of its interview with President Trump earlier this week, despite its release on social media

variety.com

Fact check: Trump makes at least 16 false or misleading claims to '60 Minutes'

President Donald Trump continued his dishonesty blitz in an interview with Lesley Stahl of "60 Minutes."

edition.cnn.com

Stahl frequently asked questions and asserting things that were flat out wrong or misleading.
Another to the list of why journalism has become a joke. And then you back up with CNN which pointed out that Stahl was misleading in questions. And that's CNN.

It won't change anyone's mind. In fact after Biden getting softballs in ever interview. This just reinforced that they are out to get Trump and ignore Bidens scandals.

 

[basilio]

Stahl frequently asked questions and asserting things that were flat out wrong or misleading.
Another to the list of why journalism has become a joke. And then you back up with CNN which pointed out that Stahl was misleading in questions. And that's CNN.

This is just untrue. Trumps mantra which you seem to have swallowed is flat out rejection of "Main Stream" media. Instead Trump supporters are supposed to echo Trumps statements and anything that supports that.

CNN fact checked the Trump interview and outlined 16 specific lies or misleading statements he made. They backed up their claims with independent evidence which comes up in hot links in their answer. Why not actually demonstrate which of of these rebuttals is incorrect and the evidence that backs up that rebuttal ? I'll give you a start.

Cases and testing
Trump claimed that coronavirus cases are rising simply "because we're doing so much testing."
"If we didn't do testing, cases would be way down," he added in the extended footage.

Facts First: It's not true that the US is only seeing an increase in cases because the number of tests has increased. Trump also used this refrain during previous spikes in the number of cases; it was also false then.
While the number of daily tests has indeed been rising, there is no doubt there has been an increase in the actual spread of the virus, not just that more cases are being captured. One telltale sign is that hospitalizations are also rising, setting records in some states. Also, the percentage of US tests coming back positive has also been rising since late September. And deaths have started to rise again, too, after the usual lag following the spike in cases.

Fact check: Trump makes at least 16 false or misleading claims to '60 Minutes'

President Donald Trump continued his dishonesty blitz in an interview with Lesley Stahl of "60 Minutes."

edition.cnn.com

 

[moXJO]

This is just untrue. Trumps mantra which you seem to have swallowed is flat out rejection of "Main Stream" media. Instead Trump supporters are supposed to echo Trumps statements and anything that supports that.

CNN fact checked the Trump interview and outlined 16 specific lies or misleading statements he made. They backed up their claims with independent evidence. Why not actually demonstrate which of of these rebuttals is incorrect and the evidence that backs up that rebuttal ?

Fact check: Trump makes at least 16 false or misleading claims to '60 Minutes'

President Donald Trump continued his dishonesty blitz in an interview with Lesley Stahl of "60 Minutes."

edition.cnn.com

I said Stahl was misleading and even cnn pointed it out. Read your own article.

 

[basilio]

I said Stahl was misleading and even cnn pointed it out. Read your own article.

Che ?? Please point out where in analysis of the 16 Trump false/misleading claimns where it says Stahl was misleading. (Actually I'll just quote the whole article in my next post)
How about addressing the herd of elephants tramping through the article - the lies and misinformation peddled by Trump?
You can start with the one I highlighted above.

 

[basilio]

Fact check: Trump makes at least 16 false or misleading claims to '60 Minutes'

By Daniel Dale, CNN

Updated 1347 GMT (2147 HKT) October 26, 2020

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump continued his dishonesty blitz in an interview with Lesley Stahl of "60 Minutes."

An edited version of the interview aired on CBS Sunday night. Trump released the full 38-minute interview on Facebook on Thursday, pre-empting the network because he said he was unhappy with Stahl's questioning.

Despite Stahl's persistent efforts to challenge him, Trump made false or misleading claims about several topics on which he has been frequently deceptive in recent months -- most notably the coronavirus pandemic.

We counted at least 16 false or misleading claims in the extended footage Trump posted, 10 of them pandemic-related. Below is the full list. We've noted the instances in which the Trump quote we are checking is from the extended footage the President posted rather than the footage televised by CBS.

Cases and testing
Trump claimed that coronavirus cases are rising simply "because we're doing so much testing."
"If we didn't do testing, cases would be way down," he added in the extended footage.

Facts First: It's not true that the US is only seeing an increase in cases because the number of tests has increased. Trump also used this refrain during previous spikes in the number of cases; it was also false then.

While the number of daily tests has indeed been rising, there is no doubt there has been an increase in the actual spread of the virus, not just that more cases are being captured. One telltale sign is that hospitalizations are also rising, setting records in some states. Also, the percentage of US tests coming back positive has also been rising since late September. And deaths have started to rise again, too, after the usual lag following the spike in cases.

"The corner"
Stahl pointed out that people can see for themselves that it's not true when he repeatedly claims we have "turned the corner" on the pandemic and that it is "disappearing." Trump responded, "That's right, we have turned the corner."

Facts First: Stahl was right, Trump was wrong. Again, US pandemic numbers -- newly confirmed cases, hospitalizations, the test positivity rate, deaths -- are all getting worse, not better. There is just no basis for his vague claim that we are rounding some sort of corner in a positive direction.

Trump's comments about Fauci
Stahl said, "You called Dr. Fauci and other health officials idiots." Trump responded, "Where did I call him an idiot?"

Facts First: This was misleading at best. On a phone call with campaign staff on Monday, with reporters from CNN and other outlets listening in, Trump said, "People are tired of hearing Fauci and these idiots, all these idiots who got it wrong."

Trump could perhaps make an argument that he was distinguishing Dr. Anthony Fauci from the unnamed "these idiots" he was referring to, but that's a stretch. (And Trump went on to tell Stahl that Fauci has "been wrong a lot," which is how he was defining "idiots" in the phone call.)

Trump rallies and masks
Stahl told Trump that she couldn't believe that, after so many people who attended his White House event for Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett in September got sick with the coronavirus, Trump still doesn't strongly encourage his rally attendees to wear masks.
Trump correctly noted that masks are handed out at the rallies. But he also said in the extended footage, "Well, have you been looking? Yesterday, take a look at, uh, take a look yesterday in Arizona. Everybody behind me had a mask." When she mentioned his Wisconsin rally, Trump said, "A lot of people had masks and it was outside."

Facts First: Trump's comments were misleading. A large percentage of the people at his two Arizona rallies last Monday and at his most recent Wisconsin rally, in Janesville last Saturday, were not wearing masks. And it's an exaggeration to claim that "everybody" standing behind him in Arizona was wearing a mask; most of those people were, but some weren't.

Reporters who cover Trump rallies also noted that there is often more mask-wearing among the people standing behind him, who will be on camera as he speaks, than there is in the rest of the crowd.

Trump and a "lock her up" chant
Trump repeatedly denied that he had endorsed the idea of locking up Democratic Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. He said in the extended footage, "When did I say lock her up? When did I say lock up the governor? I never said lock up the governor." After some back-and-forth with Stahl, which aired in the televised version, he said, "Lesley, that's such a vicious thing you just said. I didn't say lock up the governor of Michigan. I would never say that. Why would I say that?"

Facts First: This was highly misleading. At Trump's rally in Michigan last Saturday, his criticism of Whitmer prompted the crowd to chant "lock her up." He interjected during the chant to say, "Lock 'em all up."

So while he did not explicitly say the words "lock up the governor of Michigan," he at least strongly suggested that he was endorsing the idea.

Whitmer and a lockdown
Trump claimed of Whitmer, "They're not liking her so much cause she's got everybody locked down."

Facts First: That's not true. While Whitmer still has some significant pandemic-related restrictions, she is not currently imposing anything that can fairly be described as a "lockdown." Whitmer lifted her stay-at-home order on June 1.

The Detroit Free Press published a handy rundown on what happened next: "Bars and restaurants across the state reopened shortly after the order was lifted followed by barbershops, spas and hair and nail salons in mid-June. Casinos in Detroit were allowed to reopen in early August. Schools across the state reopened this fall for in-person learning. And Whitmer allowed gyms to reopen in early September and movie theaters and bowling alleys to reopen in early October."

There are still capacity limits on various kinds of Michigan establishments. For example, restaurants and bars are capped at 50% of the usual limit for indoor seating.
Earlier in October, Michigan's Supreme Court struck down as unconstitutional an emergency law from 1945 that Whitmer had relied on to impose pandemic orders. But her administration then imposed similar orders under the state's public health code.

Coronavirus restrictions in Pennsylvania and North Carolina
In the extended footage, Trump also accused the Democratic governors of Pennsylvania and North Carolina of imposing a lockdown on their residents.
Facts First: Neither state is locked down.

Since July 3, all 67 counties in Pennsylvania have been in the third stage, "green," of Gov. Tom Wolf's three-stage pandemic plan. The green phase includes significant restrictions on many businesses -- such as 50% occupancy limits for bars, restaurants, barbershops, gyms and malls -- but these businesses are up and running, not shut down.

And school districts are permitted to decide for themselves whether to have in-school or remote instruction.
North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper moved the state to "Phase 3" on October 2, easing his previous restrictions.

There are, as in other states, restrictions still in effect. Mass gatherings are limited to 25 people indoors and 50 people outdoors; restaurants are limited to 50% capacity; bars are limited to 30% outdoor capacity or 100 people, whichever is less; gyms are limited to 30% capacity. But it's inaccurate to call this a lockdown.

"The Governor has implemented a dimmer switch approach to easing restrictions responsibly that allows people to get back to work and move our economy forward while keeping people safe," press secretary Dory MacMillan said in an email.

Job creation
Trump boasted about what he described as record job creation of 11.4 million jobs in the last five months.
Facts First: This is misleading. While it's true that the 11.4 million jobs added over five months is a record, Trump left out the fact that there was a much larger record loss of about 22.2 million jobs over the two months prior. In other words, as of August, the country was still down more than 10.7 million jobs since March. (And as of September, the economy was down about 3.9 million jobs since the beginning of Trump's presidency.)

Also, many of the 11.4 million jobs "added" since May simply represent people returning to their previous jobs, from which they had been temporarily laid off. And the pace of the jobs recovery slowed significantly in September, with 661,000 jobs added -- down from about 1.5 million in August.

A death estimate
Defending his handling of the pandemic, Trump, in the extended footage, repeated his false claim that "2.2 million people were supposed to die."
Facts First: Trump wrongly described this 2.2 million statistic.

Trump was likely citing a report published in March by scholars from the Imperial College in London that predicted that a total of 2.2 million Americans could die from Covid-19 if no preventative measures were taken by any US government or individual to try to stop the spread of the virus.
In other words, this figure was an extreme, worst-case scenario if the authorities did absolutely nothing to address the virus, not an expectation.

Trump's travel restrictions
In the extended footage, Trump again said of his travel restrictions on China and Europe: "I closed it very early from China, heavily infected, and even from Europe, heavily infected."
Facts First: Trump was exaggerating. While Trump did restrict travel from China and from much of Europe, neither policy was an actual "ban." Both policies made exemptions for travel by US citizens, permanent residents, many of the family members of both groups, and some others -- and the restrictions on Europe exempted entire European countries.

The New York Times reported April 4 that nearly 40,000 people had flown to the US from China since the restrictions went into effect in early February.

Biden and health care
Trump claimed in the extended footage that, under a Biden administration, "180 million people will lose their health care" from private insurers.
Facts First: This is false. Former Vice President Joe Biden has been a vocal opponent of the "Medicare for All" single-payer proposals that would eliminate most private insurance plans. In fact, Biden and Sen. Bernie Sanders, a leading proponent of single-payer health care, clashed repeatedly on the issue during the Democratic primary. Biden is proposing a "public option" that would allow people to voluntarily move to a Medicare-style government program.

It's possible that, over time, a popular public option would affect private insurers' willingness to offer some private plans. But Trump is suggesting Biden is actively proposing to wipe out private insurance, and that's not the case at all.

The individual mandate
Trump boasted in the extended footage about how he "terminated" Obamacare's individual mandate, saying that this "actually makes Obamacare not Obamacare." He continued, "So Obamacare essentially was terminated, as we know it. Now we have the carcass of Obamacare."
Facts First: This is false. The individual mandate, which required Americans to obtain health insurance, was indeed a key part of Obamacare -- but key parts of the law remain in effect. For example, Trump has not eliminated Obamacare's protections for people with pre-existing conditions, its expansion of the Medicaid insurance program for low-income people, the federal and state marketplaces that allow people to shop for coverage, or the consumer subsidies that help many of them make the purchases.

In addition, Trump has not literally eliminated the mandate. Rather, in his 2017 tax overhaul, he reduced the penalty for violating the mandate to $0. This might seem pedantic, but the existence of a tax penalty that does not raise any revenue is a central issue in the legal case in which Trump's administration is trying to get the Supreme Court to strike down the entirety of Obamacare as unconstitutional.

Trump's health care plan
Trump promised, as he has in the past, that he will introduce a great health care plan to replace Obamacare, which he is trying to get the courts to invalidate. When Stahl asked why we haven't seen this plan, Trump said in the extended footage, "You have seen it. I've been putting out pieces all over the place."

Facts First: This is false. As Trump acknowledged at other moments of the interview, he has not yet released a plan.

Seeking to assure Americans who benefit from Obamacare's protections for people with pre-existing conditions, Trump signed an executive order in September declaring that it is US policy "to ensure that Americans with pre-existing conditions can obtain the insurance of their choice at affordable rates." But this order does not have any practical force. And the health care "vision" he introduced in September, in which he laid out other broad principles, is also not even close to a comprehensive plan.

Biden and the suburbs
Trump claimed in the extended footage, "I'm saving suburbia. He's gonna destroy suburbia. He's got a regulation, which I terminated, that he would put back, and even worse, that will destroy -- that will bring low-income housing projects into suburbia."

Facts First: Trump was exaggerating again. The Obama-era regulation Trump was referring to would not destroy the suburbs; the rule, known as Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing, is an update to a decades-old federal requirement aimed to eliminate discrimination and combat segregation in housing. It does not mandate low-income housing to be built in suburban areas.

Trump's plea to suburban women
Stahl told Trump, "You said the other day to suburban women, 'Will you please like me? Please?" She used a pleading tone of voice in repeating Trump's comment.

Trump responded, "Oh, I didn't say that. You know, that's so misleading the way -- I say jokingly, 'Suburban women, you should love me because I'm giving you security. And I got rid of the worst regulation.'" He repeated that he had made the comment "kiddingly," not as if he was "begging."

Facts First: Stahl did exaggerate in her tone -- Trump didn't make this October 13 remark in quite such a sad-sack voice -- but there was no indication Trump was kidding at the time.
He said at a rally in Pennsylvania: "So can I ask you to do me a favor. Suburban women, will you please like me?" The crowd cheered, and Trump said, "Please. Please." You can watch the clip here.

Trump has a history of claiming that his past serious remarks were mere jokes or sarcasm.

Obama, Biden and spying
After Stahl asked Trump if he wants to lock up former President Barack Obama, Trump said in the extended footage, "No, I don't wanna lock him up, but he spied on my campaign. Obama and Biden spied on my campaign."
Facts First: This is baseless. There is no evidence Biden or Obama had any personal role in ordering the FBI surveillance of Trump's campaign, which came as part of its investigation of the campaign's relationship with Russia.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Fact check: Trump makes at least 16 false or misleading claims to '60 Minutes'
View attachment 113771
By Daniel Dale, CNN

Updated 1347 GMT (2147 HKT) October 26, 2020
View attachment 113772






Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump continued his dishonesty blitz in an interview with Lesley Stahl of "60 Minutes."

An edited version of the interview aired on CBS Sunday night. Trump released the full 38-minute interview on Facebook on Thursday, pre-empting the network because he said he was unhappy with Stahl's questioning.

Despite Stahl's persistent efforts to challenge him, Trump made false or misleading claims about several topics on which he has been frequently deceptive in recent months -- most notably the coronavirus pandemic.

We counted at least 16 false or misleading claims in the extended footage Trump posted, 10 of them pandemic-related. Below is the full list. We've noted the instances in which the Trump quote we are checking is from the extended footage the President posted rather than the footage televised by CBS.

Cases and testing
Trump claimed that coronavirus cases are rising simply "because we're doing so much testing."
"If we didn't do testing, cases would be way down," he added in the extended footage.

Facts First: It's not true that the US is only seeing an increase in cases because the number of tests has increased. Trump also used this refrain during previous spikes in the number of cases; it was also false then.

While the number of daily tests has indeed been rising, there is no doubt there has been an increase in the actual spread of the virus, not just that more cases are being captured. One telltale sign is that hospitalizations are also rising, setting records in some states. Also, the percentage of US tests coming back positive has also been rising since late September. And deaths have started to rise again, too, after the usual lag following the spike in cases.

"The corner"
Stahl pointed out that people can see for themselves that it's not true when he repeatedly claims we have "turned the corner" on the pandemic and that it is "disappearing." Trump responded, "That's right, we have turned the corner."

Facts First: Stahl was right, Trump was wrong. Again, US pandemic numbers -- newly confirmed cases, hospitalizations, the test positivity rate, deaths -- are all getting worse, not better. There is just no basis for his vague claim that we are rounding some sort of corner in a positive direction.

Trump's comments about Fauci
Stahl said, "You called Dr. Fauci and other health officials idiots." Trump responded, "Where did I call him an idiot?"

Facts First: This was misleading at best. On a phone call with campaign staff on Monday, with reporters from CNN and other outlets listening in, Trump said, "People are tired of hearing Fauci and these idiots, all these idiots who got it wrong."

Trump could perhaps make an argument that he was distinguishing Dr. Anthony Fauci from the unnamed "these idiots" he was referring to, but that's a stretch. (And Trump went on to tell Stahl that Fauci has "been wrong a lot," which is how he was defining "idiots" in the phone call.)

Trump rallies and masks
Stahl told Trump that she couldn't believe that, after so many people who attended his White House event for Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett in September got sick with the coronavirus, Trump still doesn't strongly encourage his rally attendees to wear masks.
Trump correctly noted that masks are handed out at the rallies. But he also said in the extended footage, "Well, have you been looking? Yesterday, take a look at, uh, take a look yesterday in Arizona. Everybody behind me had a mask." When she mentioned his Wisconsin rally, Trump said, "A lot of people had masks and it was outside."

Facts First: Trump's comments were misleading. A large percentage of the people at his two Arizona rallies last Monday and at his most recent Wisconsin rally, in Janesville last Saturday, were not wearing masks. And it's an exaggeration to claim that "everybody" standing behind him in Arizona was wearing a mask; most of those people were, but some weren't.

Reporters who cover Trump rallies also noted that there is often more mask-wearing among the people standing behind him, who will be on camera as he speaks, than there is in the rest of the crowd.

Trump and a "lock her up" chant
Trump repeatedly denied that he had endorsed the idea of locking up Democratic Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer. He said in the extended footage, "When did I say lock her up? When did I say lock up the governor? I never said lock up the governor." After some back-and-forth with Stahl, which aired in the televised version, he said, "Lesley, that's such a vicious thing you just said. I didn't say lock up the governor of Michigan. I would never say that. Why would I say that?"

Facts First: This was highly misleading. At Trump's rally in Michigan last Saturday, his criticism of Whitmer prompted the crowd to chant "lock her up." He interjected during the chant to say, "Lock 'em all up."

So while he did not explicitly say the words "lock up the governor of Michigan," he at least strongly suggested that he was endorsing the idea.

Whitmer and a lockdown
Trump claimed of Whitmer, "They're not liking her so much cause she's got everybody locked down."

Facts First: That's not true. While Whitmer still has some significant pandemic-related restrictions, she is not currently imposing anything that can fairly be described as a "lockdown." Whitmer lifted her stay-at-home order on June 1.

The Detroit Free Press published a handy rundown on what happened next: "Bars and restaurants across the state reopened shortly after the order was lifted followed by barbershops, spas and hair and nail salons in mid-June. Casinos in Detroit were allowed to reopen in early August. Schools across the state reopened this fall for in-person learning. And Whitmer allowed gyms to reopen in early September and movie theaters and bowling alleys to reopen in early October."

There are still capacity limits on various kinds of Michigan establishments. For example, restaurants and bars are capped at 50% of the usual limit for indoor seating.
Earlier in October, Michigan's Supreme Court struck down as unconstitutional an emergency law from 1945 that Whitmer had relied on to impose pandemic orders. But her administration then imposed similar orders under the state's public health code.

Coronavirus restrictions in Pennsylvania and North Carolina
In the extended footage, Trump also accused the Democratic governors of Pennsylvania and North Carolina of imposing a lockdown on their residents.
Facts First: Neither state is locked down.

Since July 3, all 67 counties in Pennsylvania have been in the third stage, "green," of Gov. Tom Wolf's three-stage pandemic plan. The green phase includes significant restrictions on many businesses -- such as 50% occupancy limits for bars, restaurants, barbershops, gyms and malls -- but these businesses are up and running, not shut down.

And school districts are permitted to decide for themselves whether to have in-school or remote instruction.
North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper moved the state to "Phase 3" on October 2, easing his previous restrictions.

There are, as in other states, restrictions still in effect. Mass gatherings are limited to 25 people indoors and 50 people outdoors; restaurants are limited to 50% capacity; bars are limited to 30% outdoor capacity or 100 people, whichever is less; gyms are limited to 30% capacity. But it's inaccurate to call this a lockdown.

"The Governor has implemented a dimmer switch approach to easing restrictions responsibly that allows people to get back to work and move our economy forward while keeping people safe," press secretary Dory MacMillan said in an email.

Job creation
Trump boasted about what he described as record job creation of 11.4 million jobs in the last five months.
Facts First: This is misleading. While it's true that the 11.4 million jobs added over five months is a record, Trump left out the fact that there was a much larger record loss of about 22.2 million jobs over the two months prior. In other words, as of August, the country was still down more than 10.7 million jobs since March. (And as of September, the economy was down about 3.9 million jobs since the beginning of Trump's presidency.)

Also, many of the 11.4 million jobs "added" since May simply represent people returning to their previous jobs, from which they had been temporarily laid off. And the pace of the jobs recovery slowed significantly in September, with 661,000 jobs added -- down from about 1.5 million in August.

A death estimate
Defending his handling of the pandemic, Trump, in the extended footage, repeated his false claim that "2.2 million people were supposed to die."
Facts First: Trump wrongly described this 2.2 million statistic.

Trump was likely citing a report published in March by scholars from the Imperial College in London that predicted that a total of 2.2 million Americans could die from Covid-19 if no preventative measures were taken by any US government or individual to try to stop the spread of the virus.
In other words, this figure was an extreme, worst-case scenario if the authorities did absolutely nothing to address the virus, not an expectation.

Trump's travel restrictions
In the extended footage, Trump again said of his travel restrictions on China and Europe: "I closed it very early from China, heavily infected, and even from Europe, heavily infected."
Facts First: Trump was exaggerating. While Trump did restrict travel from China and from much of Europe, neither policy was an actual "ban." Both policies made exemptions for travel by US citizens, permanent residents, many of the family members of both groups, and some others -- and the restrictions on Europe exempted entire European countries.

The New York Times reported April 4 that nearly 40,000 people had flown to the US from China since the restrictions went into effect in early February.

Biden and health care
Trump claimed in the extended footage that, under a Biden administration, "180 million people will lose their health care" from private insurers.
Facts First: This is false. Former Vice President Joe Biden has been a vocal opponent of the "Medicare for All" single-payer proposals that would eliminate most private insurance plans. In fact, Biden and Sen. Bernie Sanders, a leading proponent of single-payer health care, clashed repeatedly on the issue during the Democratic primary. Biden is proposing a "public option" that would allow people to voluntarily move to a Medicare-style government program.

It's possible that, over time, a popular public option would affect private insurers' willingness to offer some private plans. But Trump is suggesting Biden is actively proposing to wipe out private insurance, and that's not the case at all.

The individual mandate
Trump boasted in the extended footage about how he "terminated" Obamacare's individual mandate, saying that this "actually makes Obamacare not Obamacare." He continued, "So Obamacare essentially was terminated, as we know it. Now we have the carcass of Obamacare."
Facts First: This is false. The individual mandate, which required Americans to obtain health insurance, was indeed a key part of Obamacare -- but key parts of the law remain in effect. For example, Trump has not eliminated Obamacare's protections for people with pre-existing conditions, its expansion of the Medicaid insurance program for low-income people, the federal and state marketplaces that allow people to shop for coverage, or the consumer subsidies that help many of them make the purchases.

In addition, Trump has not literally eliminated the mandate. Rather, in his 2017 tax overhaul, he reduced the penalty for violating the mandate to $0. This might seem pedantic, but the existence of a tax penalty that does not raise any revenue is a central issue in the legal case in which Trump's administration is trying to get the Supreme Court to strike down the entirety of Obamacare as unconstitutional.

Trump's health care plan
Trump promised, as he has in the past, that he will introduce a great health care plan to replace Obamacare, which he is trying to get the courts to invalidate. When Stahl asked why we haven't seen this plan, Trump said in the extended footage, "You have seen it. I've been putting out pieces all over the place."

Facts First: This is false. As Trump acknowledged at other moments of the interview, he has not yet released a plan.

Seeking to assure Americans who benefit from Obamacare's protections for people with pre-existing conditions, Trump signed an executive order in September declaring that it is US policy "to ensure that Americans with pre-existing conditions can obtain the insurance of their choice at affordable rates." But this order does not have any practical force. And the health care "vision" he introduced in September, in which he laid out other broad principles, is also not even close to a comprehensive plan.

Biden and the suburbs
Trump claimed in the extended footage, "I'm saving suburbia. He's gonna destroy suburbia. He's got a regulation, which I terminated, that he would put back, and even worse, that will destroy -- that will bring low-income housing projects into suburbia."

Facts First: Trump was exaggerating again. The Obama-era regulation Trump was referring to would not destroy the suburbs; the rule, known as Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing, is an update to a decades-old federal requirement aimed to eliminate discrimination and combat segregation in housing. It does not mandate low-income housing to be built in suburban areas.

Trump's plea to suburban women
Stahl told Trump, "You said the other day to suburban women, 'Will you please like me? Please?" She used a pleading tone of voice in repeating Trump's comment.

Trump responded, "Oh, I didn't say that. You know, that's so misleading the way -- I say jokingly, 'Suburban women, you should love me because I'm giving you security. And I got rid of the worst regulation.'" He repeated that he had made the comment "kiddingly," not as if he was "begging."

Facts First: Stahl did exaggerate in her tone -- Trump didn't make this October 13 remark in quite such a sad-sack voice -- but there was no indication Trump was kidding at the time.
He said at a rally in Pennsylvania: "So can I ask you to do me a favor. Suburban women, will you please like me?" The crowd cheered, and Trump said, "Please. Please." You can watch the clip here.

Trump has a history of claiming that his past serious remarks were mere jokes or sarcasm.

Obama, Biden and spying
After Stahl asked Trump if he wants to lock up former President Barack Obama, Trump said in the extended footage, "No, I don't wanna lock him up, but he spied on my campaign. Obama and Biden spied on my campaign."
Facts First: This is baseless. There is no evidence Biden or Obama had any personal role in ordering the FBI surveillance of Trump's campaign, which came as part of its investigation of the campaign's relationship with Russia.

I agree with all your points even though I haven't read them all, its been over the news time and time again. (Shades of Bill Shorten )

One of the sad things for me about this US presidential election is that after it, no matter who wins, a large section of former admirers of the USA and its institutions will be wary.

The fact that in succeeding elections, this and the last, Trump was elected as the Republican candidate is just plain strange to me, then to be elected President even stranger.

On a par is that the Democrats in 2016 elected such a divisive angry woman such as Hillary Clinton to lose to Trump.

Worse, the choice for Americans is now Trump or an ageing, cognitively impaired, dead man walking radical Joe Biden.

Bugger America.

gg

 

[moXJO]

Trump's comments about Fauci

Stahl said, "You called Dr. Fauci and other health officials idiots." Trump responded, "Where did I call him an idiot?"

No he didn't. That's a fact. Called a lot of people idiots, but he hasn't called Fauci one.


Obama, Biden and spying
After Stahl asked Trump if he wants to lock up former President Barack Obama, Trump said in the extended footage, "No, I don't wanna lock him up, but he spied on my campaign. Obama and Biden spied on my campaign."


Under the Obama administration, the FBI launched an investigation into the Trump campaign. Obama was made aware and briefed with a redacted version(allegedly, according to comey) after it was conducted though.

That's not so black and white



Trump's plea to suburban women
Stahl told Trump, "You said the other day to suburban women, 'Will you please like me? Please?" She used a pleading tone of voice in repeating Trump's comment.

Trump responded, "Oh, I didn't say that. You know, that's so misleading the way -- I say jokingly, 'Suburban women, you should love me because I'm giving you security. And I got rid of the worst regulation.'" He repeated that he had made the comment "kiddingly," not as if he was "begging."


He said it at a rally. Stahl was misleading.



Biden and the suburbs
Trump claimed in the extended footage, "I'm saving suburbia. He's gonna destroy suburbia. He's got a regulation, which I terminated, that he would put back, and even worse, that will destroy -- that will bring low-income housing projects into suburbia."

Facts First: Trump was exaggerating again. The Obama-era regulation Trump was referring to would not destroy the suburbs; the rule, known as Affirmatively Furthering Fair Housing, is an update to a decades-old federal requirement aimed to eliminate discrimination and combat segregation in housing. It does not mandate low-income housing to be built in suburban areas.




Not an exaggeration. Depending on where it takes place and the rezoning that will no doubt happen. It will very likely destroy the character of many suburb's.





Trump's travel restrictions
In the extended footage, Trump again said of his travel restrictions on China and Europe: "I closed it very early from China, heavily infected, and even from Europe, heavily infected."
Facts First: Trump was exaggerating. While Trump did restrict travel from China and from much of Europe, neither policy was an actual "ban." Both policies made exemptions for travel by US citizens, permanent residents, many of the family members of both groups, and some others -- and the restrictions on Europe exempted entire European countries.


So he took US citizens and residents back. And did in fact stop travel from China and Europe early on. Many that were evacuated from Hubei province in China were quarantined in a military base. Others were made to home isolate as per cdc rules.

Job creation
Trump boasted about what he described as record job creation of 11.4 million jobs in the last five months.
Facts First: This is misleading. While it's true that the 11.4 million jobs added over five months is a record, Trump left out the fact that there was a much larger record loss of about 22.2 million jobs over the two months prior. In other words, as of August, the country was still down more than 10.7 million jobs since March. (And as of September, the economy was down about 3.9 million jobs since the beginning of Trump's presidency.)

No the statement is true. Same way Obama used the gfc turnaround. Funny how left suddenly realised its actually misleading when you are quoting figures that show you have actually just let the economy go back to the ground floor. Obama used the same bull**** logic. I'd say Trumps COVID-19 pandemic was a lot worse then the gfc.
So statement stands.

Coronavirus restrictions in Pennsylvania and North Carolina
In the extended footage, Trump also accused the Democratic governors of Pennsylvania and North Carolina of imposing a lockdown on their residents.
Facts First: Neither state is locked down.

I haven't watched this but lockdowns were found to be unconstitutional in Pennsylvania and struck down from memory. So a lockdown was imposed on them.
As far as restrictions go they are a lockdown from most of the freedom loving crowd in the US. So this really depends on how you ask. You ask a business affected or a libertarian- and they will tell you lockdown of freedoms.

The rest all depends on how much info you want to go through to prove one way or the other. Most of the interview was misleading. If you dig most of these things then there is a lot more to it then these base ass gotcha questions.
Did trump mislead yeah he did. But nothing the media didn't throw back in kind. It all depends where you stand.

I can't be bothered doing a type up of the rest.

 

[satanoperca]

"Obama, Biden and spying
After Stahl asked Trump if he wants to lock up former President Barack Obama, Trump said in the extended footage, "No, I don't wanna lock him up, but he spied on my campaign. Obama and Biden spied on my campaign."

Is that Illegal for a presiding president to check the security of a candidate that has links to Russia and China?

Seems natural to me. Maybe Chump man is a little paranoid.

 

[moXJO]

"Obama, Biden and spying
After Stahl asked Trump if he wants to lock up former President Barack Obama, Trump said in the extended footage, "No, I don't wanna lock him up, but he spied on my campaign. Obama and Biden spied on my campaign."

Is that Illegal for a presiding president to check the security of a candidate that has links to Russia and China?

Seems natural to me. Maybe Chump man is a little paranoid.

It should be. The way it was done however showed the fbi exceeded their authority. This coupled with the dodgy way the pee pee dossier was procured showed something was seriously off. All the people charged were not charged from collusion but perjury traps. I'd be paranoid too.

 

[satanoperca]

No wonder his a little paranoid, pretty close to home.
Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort: Sentenced to seven and a half years in prison for financial crimes
His Mate Roger Stone sentence to 6 years, overturned by the Chump man himself

Cannot read anymore, seems Chump is the swamp

 

[orr]

“. . . All Enemies, Foreign and Domestic”: An Open Letter to Gen. Milley
If the commander in chief attempts to ignore the election’s results, you will face a choice.


By JOHN NAGL and PAUL YINGLING
AUGUST 11, 2020

• COMMENTARY
• WHITE HOUSE
• PENTAGON
• CONGRESS
• 2020 ELECTIONS

Dear General Milley:
As chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, you are well aware of your duties in ordinary times: to serve as principal military advisor to the president of the United States, and to transmit the lawful orders of the president and Secretary of Defense to combatant commanders. In ordinary times, these duties are entirely consistent with your oath to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic…”
We do not live in ordinary times. The president of the United States is actively subverting our electoral system, threatening to remain in office in defiance of our Constitution. In a few months’ time, you may have to choose between defying a lawless president or betraying your Constitutional oath. We write to assist you in thinking clearly about that choice. If Donald Trump refuses to leave office at the expiration of his constitutional term, the United States military must remove him by force, and you must give that order.
Due to a dangerous confluence of circumstances, the once-unthinkable scenario of authoritarian rule in the United States is now a very real possibility. First, as Mr. Trump faces near certain electoral defeat, he is vigorously undermining public confidence in our elections. Second, Mr. Trump’s defeat would result in his facing not merely political ignominy, but also criminal charges. Third, Mr. Trump is assembling a private army capable of thwarting not only the will of the electorate but also the capacities of ordinary law enforcement. When these forces collide on January 20, 2021, the U.S. military will be the only institution capable of upholding our Constitutional order.
There can be little doubt that Mr. Trump is facing electoral defeat. More than 160,000 Americans have died from COVID 19, and that toll is likely to rise to 300,000 by November. One in ten U.S. workers is unemployed, and the U.S. economy in the last quarter suffered the greatest contraction in its history. Nearly 70 percent of Americans believe the country is on the wrong track. The Economist estimates that Mr. Trump’s chances of losing the election stand at 91 percent.



Related articles
The Military Won’t Save Us – and You Shouldn’t Want Them To
Who Decides Who Is a ‘Domestic Enemy’?
Milley's Chance to Right His ‘Mistake’
Faced with these grim prospects, Mr. Trump has engaged in a systemic disinformation campaign to undermine public confidence in our elections. He has falsely claimed that mail-in voting is “inaccurate and fraudulent.” He is actively sabotaging the U.S. Postal Service in an effort to delay and discredit mail-in votes. He has suggested delaying the 2020 election, despite lacking the authority to do so.
The stakes of the 2020 election are especially high for Mr. Trump; in defeat, he will likely face criminal prosecution. The Manhattan District Attorney is investigating the Trump Organization for possible bank and insurance fraud related to the overvaluation of financial assets. New York’s Attorney General is conducting similar investigations, having successfully subpoenaed Trump’s financial records from Deutsche Bank. Mr. Trump allegedly pressured the U.S. ambassador to Great Britain to pressure the British Government to move the British Open golf tournament to Trump Turnberry Resort in Scotland. This incident is but one of many examples of self-dealing that may lead to federal criminal charges against the president.
Given this dizzying array of threats not merely to his political prospects, but also his liberty and wealth, Mr. Trump is following the playbook of dictators throughout history: he is building a private army answerable only to him. When Caesar faced the prospect of a trial in Rome, he did not return to face his day in court. He unleashed an army personally loyal to him alone on the Roman government. No student of history, Mr. Trump nevertheless appears to be following Caesar’s example. The president’s use of militarized Homeland Security agents against domestic political demonstrations constitutes the creation of a paramilitary force unaccountable to the public. The members of this private army, often lacking police insignia or other identification, exist not to enforce the law but to intimidate the president’s political opponents.


These powerful crosscurrents—Mr. Trump’s electoral defeat, his assault on the integrity of our elections, his impending criminal prosecution, and his creation of a private army—will collide on January 20. Rather than accept the peaceful transfer of power that has been the hallmark of American democracy since its inception. Mr. Trump may refuse to leave office. He would likely offer as a fig leaf of legitimacy the shopworn lies about election fraud. Mr. Trump’s acolytes in right-wing media will certainly rush to repeat and amplify these lies, manufacturing sufficient evidence to provide a pretext of plausibility. America’s greatest Constitutional crisis since the Civil War will come about by a president who simply refuses to leave office.
America’s political and legal institutions have so atrophied that they are ill-prepared for this moment. Senate Republicans, already reduced to supplicant status, will remain silent and inert, as much to obscure their complicity as to retain their majority. The Democrat-led House of Representatives will certify the Electoral College results, which Mr. Trump will dismiss as fake news. The courts, flooded with cases from both Democrats and Mr. Trump’s legal team, will take months working through the docket, producing reasoned rulings that Trump will alternately appeal and ignore.
Then the clock will strike 12:01 PM, January 20, 2021, and Donald Trump will be sitting in the Oval Office. The street protests will inevitably swell outside the White House, and the ranks of Trump’s private army will grow inside its grounds. The speaker of the House will declare the Trump presidency at an end, and direct the Secret Service and Federal Marshals to remove Trump from the premises. These agents will realize that they are outmanned and outgunned by Trump’s private army, and the moment of decision will arrive.
At this moment of Constitutional crisis, only two options remain. Under the first, U.S. military forces escort the former president from the White House grounds. Trump’s little green men, so intimidating to lightly armed federal law enforcement agents, step aside and fade away, realizing they would not constitute a good morning’s work for a brigade of the 82nd Airborne. Under the second, the U.S. military remains inert while the Constitution dies. The succession of government is determined by extralegal violence between Trump’s private army and street protesters; Black Lives Matter Plaza becomes Tahrir Square.
As the senior military officer of the United States, the choice between these two options lies with you. In the Constitutional crisis described above, your duty is to give unambiguous orders directing U.S. military forces to support the Constitutional transfer of power. Should you remain silent, you will be complicit in a coup d’état. You were rightly criticized for your prior active complicity in the president’s use of force against peaceful protesters in Lafayette Square. Your passive complicity in an extralegal seizure of political power would be far worse.


For 240 years, the United States has been spared the horror of violent political succession. Imperfect though it may be, our Union has been moving toward greater perfection, from one peaceful transfer of power to the next. The rule of law created by our Constitution has made this miracle possible. However, our Constitutional order is not self-sustaining. Throughout our history, Americans have laid down their lives so that this form of government may endure. Continuing the unfinished work for which these heroes fell now falls to you.
Lest you forget:
“I, Mark A. Milley, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”
The fate of our Republic may well depend upon your adherence to this oath.
Respectfully yours,
John Nagl and Paul Yingling
John Nagl is a retired Army officer and veteran of both Iraq wars.
Paul Yingling, a retired U.S. Army lieutenant colonel, served three tours in Iraq, another in Bosnia, and a fifth in Operation Desert Storm.

 

[sptrawler]

The good thing about the U.S election IMO, it makes very little difference to us.
If Trump wins, China reduce their imports of our resources, but U.S, U.K and Europe increase their imports.
If Biden wins, everything goes back to China importing more of our materials and everyones manufacturing going there.
So situation normal, for our lifetime and the inner city lefties get to sit back wallowing in their smugness, as the workers living standards go around the S bend. Lol

 

[IFocus]

The good thing about the U.S election IMO, it makes very little difference to us.
If Trump wins, China reduce their imports of our resources, but U.S, U.K and Europe increase their imports.
If Biden wins, everything goes back to China importing more of our materials and everyones manufacturing going there.
So situation normal, for our lifetime and the inner city lefties get to sit back wallowing in their smugness, as the workers living standards go around the S bend. Lol

Afraid not SP, Trump is undermining the western alliances and has no long term plan that's a very real threat to Australian interests with the increasing threat of Chinese aggression.
Biden is seen as continuing the attempt to contain China but with western alliances and a more nuanced approach with the promise of longer term planning.

Trump has also shredded the government departments required to carry out the above.......that's bad for Australia.

 

[sptrawler]

Afraid not SP, Trump is undermining the western alliances and has no long term plan that's a very real threat to Australian interests with the increasing threat of Chinese aggression.
Biden is seen as continuing the attempt to contain China but with western alliances and a more nuanced approach with the promise of longer term planning.

Trump has also shredded the government departments required to carry out the above.......that's bad for Australia.

Time will tell.

 

[moXJO]

The good thing about the U.S election IMO, it makes very little difference to us.
If Trump wins, China reduce their imports of our resources, but U.S, U.K and Europe increase their imports.
If Biden wins, everything goes back to China importing more of our materials and everyones manufacturing going there.
So situation normal, for our lifetime and the inner city lefties get to sit back wallowing in their smugness, as the workers living standards go around the S bend. Lol

Its actually better for us if Biden wins. Although we may need Labor in office.

 

[DB008]

Stossel right on point once again

​

 

[spooly74]

Is it a bit dodgy to know the numbers before election day?

Pretty sure these are registered Dem or Rep voters numbers. Whats they put on the ballot not known but can't imagine any Reps voting blue. Not sure you could say the same for the Dems, especially in other states with the "End the oil industry" comment from Sleepy.

 

[basilio]

What happens in Arizona will mirror the US.


The Arizona county that could decide the future of Trump – and America


Phoenix rising


As part of a new series, the Guardian looks at Maricopa county’s transformation from conservative bastion to 2020 battleground

Lauren Gambino and Maanvi Singh in Phoenix
Tue 27 Oct 2020 02.15 EDT Last modified on Tue 27 Oct 2020 16.45 EDT


Shares
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Voters wear masks at the Maricopa county elections department in Phoenix, Arizona, on 15 October 2020. Photograph: Caitlin O’Hara/The Guardian

For years, Carlos Garcia would grab his bullhorn each afternoon and head downtown to the office of Joe Arpaio, the brash, hardline, anti-immigrant Maricopa county sheriff who became known as “the Donald Trump of Arizona”.

When Garcia’s protests began in 2007, just a handful of devoted activists joined him. A conservative firebrand, Arpaio was re-elected every four years by the mostly white residents of the state’s most populous county. He was seemingly untouchable.
But as Arpaio’s crusade against immigrants intensified, the backlash grew. “We literally went from five to 200,000 people,” Garcia said of the protests.

On 8 November 2016, the same night Donald Trump won the White House, Arizona finally ousted Arpaio. After nearly a quarter-century in power, the sheriff was undone by Latinos, young progressives and white voters who Garcia believes “felt shame over Maricopa’s reputation” as a hostile and intolerant place.

The Arizona county that could decide the future of Trump – and America

As part of a new series, the Guardian looks at Maricopa county’s transformation from conservative bastion to 2020 battleground

www.theguardian.com

 

[basilio]

but can't imagine any Reps voting blue.

Really spooly ? You imagine that every Republican has become a bigoted , brainless, Trump voting zombie just itching to vote this psychopathic criminal into power again to "complete the job" ?

So who do you think are running the score of Republicans against Trump movements ?

Republican Voters Against Trump

It takes courage to speak out against your party. It takes courage to change your mind about Trump.

rvat.org

The Lincoln Project

The Lincoln Project is a leading U.S. pro-democracy organization dedicated to the preservation, protection, and defense of democracy.

lincolnproject.us

 

[spooly74]

Really spooly ? You imagine that every Republican has become a bigoted , brainless, Trump voting zombie just itching to vote this psychopathic criminal into power again to "complete the job" ?

So who do you think are running the score of Republicans against Trump movements ?

Republican Voters Against Trump

It takes courage to speak out against your party. It takes courage to change your mind about Trump.

rvat.org

The Lincoln Project

The Lincoln Project is a leading U.S. pro-democracy organization dedicated to the preservation, protection, and defense of democracy.

lincolnproject.us

Yes, really.
No, I don't image that at all.
Just the other guy is a compromised, dementia puppet who I wouldn't trust to feed fish.