Tyranny

[moXJO]

Regardless of whether suicides are up or not. We will see them increase with extended lockdowns or the effects of those lockdowns. If government pulls support which I believe it is doing.

 

[rederob]

Regardless of whether suicides are up or not. We will see them increase with extended lockdowns or the effects of those lockdowns. If government pulls support which I believe it is doing.

All you are doing is guessing.
How about some lotto numbers while you are at it.

Let's look at Victoria, which has had some of the harshest lockdown arrangements in the world:

The data clearly does not support you ideas on suicides.

 

[moXJO]

All you are doing is guessing.
How about some lotto numbers while you are at it.

Let's look at Victoria, which has had some of the harshest lockdown arrangements in the world:
View attachment 127849
The data clearly does not support you ideas on suicides.

Yes I just posted on kids who don't work or received fed funding. How was that rate.

Lockdowns are currently burning between nsw/Vic what- $300million?
It's going to have an impact.

It's not 'guessing'. Every time we have an economic down turn, we get an increase in suicides. We are now compounding it with lockdowns and people disconnecting from society.

I'm not advocating for removal of lockdowns either. Just there needs to be adequate federal funding if you are stopping people from working. And vaccinations need to be pumped along.

Too many lockdowns, or prolonged lockdowns- then yes, I am saying suicides will go up.

 

[moXJO]

Oh and once again debt is a major contributor to suicide. How's Aussie debt and the lockdowns going together.

Do I need to post numerous studies or just a line chart?

 

[rederob]

Oh and once again debt is a major contributor to suicide. How's Aussie debt and the lockdowns going together.

Do I need to post numerous studies or just a line chart?

Just show that your claims are valid.
We all know that things are not rosy, but you would have us believe that suicides are increasing massively - 30% based on only one month's data - and it's definitely not true.
You compound your mistaken belief with this:

It's not 'guessing'. Every time we have an economic down turn, we get an increase in suicides.

It did not happen in 2020.

 

[SirRumpole]

So did any of our members march in the "freedom rallies" ?

 

[moXJO]

Just show that your claims are valid.
We all know that things are not rosy, but you would have us believe that suicides are increasing massively - 30% based on only one month's data - and it's definitely not true.
You compound your mistaken belief with this:

It did not happen in 2020.

Oh you want to hang on a throw away line. My query was "had suicides gone down" and to point out January had an increase.
That bankruptcy laws were changed in Jan coinciding with an up in suicide rates is a valid assumption.

Mitigating factors would be that the economy had federal surplus run through and held everything up.


Your position that you refuse to state seems to be ' lockdowns don't cause suicides'.
But since you refuse to state a position you can sneakily shift position.

Previously you were blasting your pants that lockdowns didn't have an effect on suicides to Wayne. And since you refuse to clarify I have to assume that is your position.

I'm stating those assumptions are wrong.

 

[divs4ever]

So did any of our members march in the "freedom rallies" ?

NO .. i have health issues , but i was there in spirit , and have watched a few videos posted by indendent content creators ( so maybe those 'views ' will count )

 

[rederob]

Oh you want to hang on a throw away line. My query was "had suicides gone down" and to point out January had an increase.
That bankruptcy laws were changed in Jan coinciding with an up in suicide rates is a valid assumption.

Stop guessing.
In a comparable 4-week period to near-end January 2021 bankruptcies in NSW totalled 190 compared to 390 in 2020.

Your position that you refuse to state seems to be ' lockdowns don't cause suicides'.

Where is data showing your claim is valid?

Previously you were blasting your pants that lockdowns didn't have an effect on suicides to Wayne. And since you refuse to clarify I have to assume that is your position.

I don't make baseless claims.
My earlier post showed the relevant data.

 

[IFocus]

So did any of our members march in the "freedom rallies" ?

First I knew was on the news so missed it.

Sincerely hope it doesn't cause a further break out.

Also hope the officers attending haven't been exposed to COVID.

 

[moXJO]

Stop guessing.
In a comparable 4-week period to near-end January 2021 bankruptcies in NSW totalled 190 compared to 390 in 2020.

Where is data showing your claim is valid?

I don't make baseless claims.
My earlier post showed the relevant data.

Ok I'll raise you

"Although GDP has rebounded and is showing strong growth, the number of people reporting financial stress (difficulty paying for essential goods and services) has risen to 31 per cent – now exceeding the number of people making ends meet, at 26 per cent.

The proportion of people experiencing mental distress (feeling depressed and anxious most of the time) – is now 24 per cent, a record high since the survey started in April 2020.

Self-employed Australians report the highest levels of financial stress and mental distress. Fifty per cent say they are financially stressed and 15 per cent are only making ends meet. Almost half – 47 per cent – are mentally distressed. Those on fixed term (73 per cent) and casual (77 per cent) contracts are more vulnerable to adverse income shocks.

The fortnightly survey from Melbourne Institute: Applied Economic & Social Research tracks changes in the economic and social wellbeing of Australians. The 28th wave of the survey was conducted from 1 to 6 March.

Professor Guay Lim, author of the report, said the results suggest that economic recovery is not being felt equally across Australian society.

“The data from this latest wave suggest that not everyone is seeing the benefits of the economic upturn and this is having a serious impact on Australians’ financial and mental wellbeing,” Professor Lim said."

Financial stress and mental distress growing despite signs of economic upturn; satisfaction with government policy at all time low

Australians are experiencing higher levels of financial stress and mental distress, which has risen to its highest level since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic despite Australia being on the road to economic recovery.

about.unimelb.edu.au

 

[rederob]

Ok I'll raise you

"Although GDP has rebounded and is showing strong growth, the number of people reporting financial stress (difficulty paying for essential goods and services) has risen to 31 per cent – now exceeding the number of people making ends meet, at 26 per cent.

The proportion of people experiencing mental distress (feeling depressed and anxious most of the time) – is now 24 per cent, a record high since the survey started in April 2020.

Self-employed Australians report the highest levels of financial stress and mental distress. Fifty per cent say they are financially stressed and 15 per cent are only making ends meet. Almost half – 47 per cent – are mentally distressed. Those on fixed term (73 per cent) and casual (77 per cent) contracts are more vulnerable to adverse income shocks.

The fortnightly survey from Melbourne Institute: Applied Economic & Social Research tracks changes in the economic and social wellbeing of Australians. The 28th wave of the survey was conducted from 1 to 6 March.

Professor Guay Lim, author of the report, said the results suggest that economic recovery is not being felt equally across Australian society.

“The data from this latest wave suggest that not everyone is seeing the benefits of the economic upturn and this is having a serious impact on Australians’ financial and mental wellbeing,” Professor Lim said."

Financial stress and mental distress growing despite signs of economic upturn; satisfaction with government policy at all time low

Australians are experiencing higher levels of financial stress and mental distress, which has risen to its highest level since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic despite Australia being on the road to economic recovery.

about.unimelb.edu.au

As I said, we all know things are not rosy.
There is a difference between the bleeding obvious and what you have been claiming.

 

[moXJO]

As I said, we all know things are not rosy.
There is a difference between the bleeding obvious and what you have been claiming.

So we can lock in that you don't think lockdowns cause suicides.
Why did I have to state "the bleeding obvious" when you were crowing for "data".
From what I read previously you don’t think there is a link and wanted to defend your position.

I stated my position. You have done everything to do the opposite.

 

[rederob]

So we can lock in that you don't think lockdowns cause suicides.
Why did I have to state "the bleeding obvious" when you were crowing for "data".
From what I read previously you don’t think there is a link and wanted to defend your position.

I stated my position. You have done everything to do the opposite.

Your recent suggestion that that bankruptcies are linked to suicide numbers was back to front.
Remember it is you proposing that lockdowns increase suicides.
If that is the case then where is the evidence?

 

[moXJO]

Your recent suggestion that that bankruptcies are linked to suicide numbers was back to front.
Remember it is you proposing that lockdowns increase suicides.
If that is the case then where is the evidence?

I wasn't suggesting bankruptcy were the cause. I was suggesting changes to the law were a financial stress trigger to those already on the edge.

I've presented the evidence of why lockdowns will cause suicides and basically what will stop suicides. At least in my mind it should be easy to piece together.

But let's wait and see. Because I damn well hope you are correct and I'm wrong.

But let's face it. I'm always right.

 

[rederob]

I wasn't suggesting bankruptcy were the cause. I was suggesting changes to the law were a financial stress trigger to those already on the edge.

I've presented the evidence of why lockdowns will cause suicides and basically what will stop suicides. At least in my mind it should be easy to piece together.

But let's wait and see. Because I damn well hope you are correct and I'm wrong.

But let's face it. I'm always right.

There is no evidence from you that lockdowns lead to or increase suicides.
Given that, many of your claims are just unsubstantiated opinions that you now hope will materialise some time in the future.
Even if the suicide rate were to rise in future it may have nothing to do with lockdowns.
The most recent available ABS data shows that annual suicide data has varied by as much as 500:

can

 

[moXJO]

There is no evidence from you that lockdowns lead to or increase suicides.
Given that, many of your claims are just unsubstantiated opinions that you now hope will materialise some time in the future.
Even if the suicide rate were to rise in future it may have nothing to do with lockdowns.
The most recent available ABS data shows that annual suicide data has varied by as much as 500:
View attachment 127855can

Wow.
You simplified it down to crayon eating and everything.
And you came back with a line chart to explain away everything (good for you).
I explained the general framework. Here's a bit more.



In September-2020, among 1157 Victorians, one-third reported anxiety or depressive disorder symptoms, one-fifth reported suicidal ideation, and one-tenth reported having seriously considered suicide in the prior 30 days.

Mental health, substance use, and suicidal ideation during a prolonged COVID-19-related lockdown in a region with low SARS-CoV-2 prevalence

The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic has been associated with mental health consequences due to direct (i.e., SARS-CoV-2 infection, potent…

www.sciencedirect.com

I'll go one further. Continuous lockdowns will be the biggest negative mental health impact for years to come. I'd say any suicide for the next few years might be directly attributed to lockdowns.

 

[SirRumpole]

I'll go one further. Continuous lockdowns will be the biggest negative mental health impact for years to come. I'd say any suicide for the next few years might be directly attributed to lockdowns.

That's a pretty broad brush . ANY suicide attributed to lockdowns ?

What about people with incurable diseases who don't want to have any more treatment ?

Chronic depression brought about by marriage breakdowns etc.

These causes have been present long before covid and will be there after its gone. (If it ever is).

 

[rederob]

Let's look at your claims on suicide:

I'd say any suicide for the next few years might be directly attributed to lockdowns.

No evidence that any to date can be attributable as suicide rates declined in 2020 and are fewer in 2021 compared to the same period in 2020.

No please go ahead and explain an increase of 30%.

See my point above (as I explained many times it was meaningless to use only one month's data).

Every time we have an economic down turn, we get an increase in suicides.

No evidence presented and this did not happen in 2020.

Oh and once again debt is a major contributor to suicide.

No evidence presented.

That bankruptcy laws were changed in Jan coinciding with an up in suicide rates is a valid assumption.

Except that bankruptcies declined in January, so your premise is false.

I wasn't suggesting bankruptcy were the cause.

In relation to bankruptcies you clearly said "an up in suicide rates is a valid assumption".

Everyone knows there are other issues of significant concern, but it irresponsible to make claims that are refuted by evidence.

 

[Knobby22]

That's a pretty broad brush . ANY suicide attributed to lockdowns ?

What about people with incurable diseases who don't want to have any more treatment ?

Chronic depression brought about by marriage breakdowns etc.

These causes have been present long before covid and will be there after its gone. (If it ever is).

Very little is black and white particularly in mental health.

It is true the suicide rate has not risen but I don't think that would apply to depression. The damage to some people from lockdowns is terrible; broken marriages and forced sale of the home. The bankruptcy rates will rise. There has been government and bank protection short term.

On a side issue my son showed a tiktok video today of a protestor in Sydney bragging that he expects 1000 cases from the protest. These guys are generally selfish scum or dumb or often both.
As we saw in Melbourne, the enemy of small business. Smashing their demonstration.