Tyranny

[Smurf1976]

SP the total wealth in the US has never been higher, the move of manufacturing away from the US (still falling under Trump BTW) has actually brought move wealth and made products not previously available to the masses now available.

It may have increased wealth overall but there's an awful lot of people stuck working in low value service industry jobs or no job at all.

People who'd outright jump at the chance to work in any of the myriad of jobs which revolve around manufacturing from engineering to trades to marketing to design to management to manual labour they all beat the low value services sector hands down.

People with a practical, technical mindset are attracted to doing practical, technical things. I've known and worked with many and they're all much the same in that regard. They're usually reasonably good with money but it's not the key motivator.

Now those are the people that created every single aspect of the modern world in which everyone else lives. Every piece of technology from aircraft through to diamond saws came about due to technical people who make and do things.

The West simply can't afford to lose them in my view, there's far more at stake than just short term money.

 

[Smurf1976]

You're probably right, but how it is funded becomes the issue IMO, it in some way has to be reflective of the underlying economy, otherwise the productive side has very little attraction to encourage people to work.
If humans had a natural propensity to work, it wouldn't be an issue, but the majority would rather be doing leisure activities, if that becomes a really attractive option, who picks up the trash?

One word.

INFLATION.

Ramping up the money supply in order to hand out cash whilst the availability of physical goods and services gets squeezed is a sure fire way to raise prices.

 

[SirRumpole]

The West simply can't afford to lose them in my view, there's far more at stake than just short term money.

Absolutely. Once you start manufacturing in some countries you risk your intellectual property being ripped off, and soon the design and creation sectors are moving o/s too and you are left with nothing.

If there was no political competition in the world and ideas and the technologies were freely shared that would not necessarily be a big problem but the reality is that ideological differences exist which pose a security threat when technological capability goes elsewhere.

 

[wayneL]

We are kind of going a little bit off topic in this thread even if some of the comments observations are really good.

The topic is tyranny... Not just government tyranny, but also cultural tyranny and even intellectual tyranny.

I read a tweet yesterday which I now I cannot find that said, quoting as closely as possible as I can remember - "a trans female is also a biological female."

Now this ranks among the most anti-intellectual and anti-scientific comments I have read, but did I protest this fact in the particular echo chamber that I had happened to stumble into?

Not on your life, I would have been Twitter mod and perhaps even suspended by our tyrannical friend, Jack Dorsey (or will likely one of his ambiguously humanoid Green haired moderators.)

This to me as both cultural and intellectual tyranny... Me disagreeing with this person based on all established science would have been seen as some sort of acids and or Nazism of some or another phobia.

Blind Freddy can see that political tyranny is rearing it's ugly head in the United States (purportedly the land of the free and the home of the Brave). The absolute vast majority of Trump supporters are just ordinary conservative folks, people with families, who go to church, run a small business or have a job.... people who are interested in liberty but equally are willing to take responsibility for themselves.

These are the people, if they haven't already been persecuted in some way, are nowliving under the Sword of Damocles, wondering if they will be the next to be victim of the foetid hive-mind of the regressive left.

As much as the president elect was reading platitudes of unity from his autocue, the rest of his party was invecting (sic) threats of persona non grata, and even violence.

As I see it there are only two ways this can go. Either United States becomes a totalitarian state government by the radical/woke left, or there will be civil war.

My guess is the latter, but in the meantime it is going to be the clown world on steroids. Irrational hatred of Trump and by extension his supporters, buy an army of useful idiots, is going to be ample camouflage for a very toxic agenda to be advanced.

This is evident even here on the other side of the world and even here on ASF.

Bonne chance, Komrades.

 

[SirRumpole]

We are kind of forgoing a little bit of topic in this thread even if some of the comments observations are really good.

The topic is tyranny... Not just government guarantee but also cultural tyranny and even intellectual tyranny.

I read a tweet yesterday which I now I cannot find that said, quoting as closely as possible as I can remember - "a trans female is also a biological female."

no this ranks among the most anti-intellectual and anti-scientific comments I have read, but did I protest this fact in the particular echo chamber that I had happened to stumble into?

Not on your life, I would have been Twitter mod and perhaps even suspended by our tyrannical friend, Jack Dorsey (or will likely one of his ambiguously humanoid Green haired moderators.)

This to me as both cultural and intellectual tyranny... Me disagreeing with this person based on all established science would have been seen as some sort of acids and or Nazism of some or another phobia.

Blind Freddy can see that political tyranny is rearing it's ugly head in the United States (purportedly the land of the free and the home of the Brave). The absolute vast majority of Trump supporters are just ordinary conservative folks, people with families, who go to church, run a small business or have a job.... people who are interested in liberty but equally are willing to take responsibility for themselves.

These are the people, if they haven't already been persecuted in some way, are nowliving under the Sword of Damocles, wondering if they will be the next to be victim of the foetid hive-mind of the regressive left.

As much as the president elect was reading platitudes of unity from his autocue, the rest of his party was invecting (sic) threats of persona non grata, and even violence.

As I see it there are only two ways this can go. Either United States becomes a totalitarian state government by the radical/woke left, or there will be civil war.

My guess is the latter, but in the meantime it is going to be the clown world on steroids. Irrational hatred of Trump and by extension his supporters, buy an army of useful idiots, is going to be ample camouflage for a very toxic agenda to be advanced.

This is evident even here on the other side of the world and even here on ASF.

Bonne chance, Komrades.

Is political correctness a form of tyranny ?

Some would say yes.

 

[wayneL]

Is political correctness a form of tyranny ?

Some would say yes.

It depends

If pc is discouraging people calling each other racist names, then no. If we legislate it then yes.

If we encourage discussion about acceptance of gay marriage, transsexualism etc then no. If we call people bigots for having a duscussion, then yes.

If encouraging a meritocracy exclusive of consideration of immutable characteristics or life choices, then no. If training white people to believe they, and only they, are racist then yes.

I don't mind us changing our thinking through reason, but not through coercion or force.

 

[Smurf1976]

I don't mind us changing our thinking through reason, but not through coercion or force.

I'd argue that one side of the argument on a great many issues is effectively being silenced by force. Not the force of government that's true but the force of the self-appointed gatekeepers of what's wrong and right.

That basic approach has become extremely widespread and even applies now to trivial things such as art. If you're going to say anything even slightly negative, someone will twist that to being an attack on the artist personally or even on anyone of the same gender, race or whatever.

I spotted one recently where someone commenting on a music video, and observing that the themes were not typical of the artist's work, was then accused of sexism. Somewhat amazing given that the comment made no reference to gender, would have been relevant to either, and was simply an observation as to the artist's work and wasn't a criticism.

We've created a world where pretty much any comment on anything has a fair chance of being spat back as an accusation of some sort. End result is most have effectively been silenced, since even a completely objective and innocent comment carries risk, and what's left is the mob.

That isn't tyranny of government but I'd argue it's a similar concept, it's using an ever present threat in order to control others.

 

[Smurf1976]

Irrational hatred of Trump and by extension his supporters, buy an army of useful idiots, is going to be ample camouflage for a very toxic agenda to be advanced.

Using Trump as the example, there's a vast difference between Donald Trump the man versus the ideas he's promoted.

Same as there's a difference between the artist and the art they produce.

Rationally, someone can be good friends with the artist despite not liking any of their work. Or vice versa, they can like the art despite not liking the artist's personal attributes.

Many seem unable or unwilling to differentiate between Trump as a person versus the concepts and ideas he's promoted.

 

[SirRumpole]

It depends

If pc is discouraging people calling each other racist names, then no. If we legislate it then yes.

If we encourage discussion about acceptance of gay marriage, transsexualism etc then no. If we call people bigots for having a duscussion, then yes.

If encouraging a meritocracy exclusive of consideration of immutable characteristics or life choices, then no. If training white people to believe they, and only they, are racist then yes.

I don't mind us changing our thinking through reason, but not through coercion or force.

One example.

Billions has been poured into indigenous welfare over the years with the results being scant.

If one proposed an enquiry into where the money has gone and why the results have not measured up, the indigenous lobby would attack that proposal as racist, which is why indigenous welfare spending is rarely questioned. Instead there are continual calls for yet more to be spent regardless of the results.

 

[sptrawler]

Is political correctness a form of tyranny ?

Some would say yes.

IMO it is Rumpy, Im in no way religious, or homophobic, but I just keep refering back to the Isreal Folau, Margret Court incident. It just does my head in, that was allowed, cheered on and held up as some form of example to warn others not to speak their minds.
That ridiculous mindset, is the very reason violence happens IMO.
Australian media is becoming a very sad reflection on what Australia has lost, peoples ability to speak their minds, without being ridiculed, abused and shouted down.
If the media doesnt agree with you, you are toast, so many very intellegent people would rather say nothing, than be torn to shreds by a rabid pack.
Just my opinion, but as smurf said, social media is decending to the lowest common denominator, muppets.

 

[wayneL]

The tyranny of tribalism is something that I would like to bring up also.

It is worth noting that any person who disagrees even in the slightest way with their own tribe, if indeed they are part of a tribe, risks being excommunicated and cancelled for even the slightest transgression

The culture today is replete with hundreds of thousands of examples of that, but probably most notably that of JK Rowling, who was Twitter mugged for having the temerity to refer to actual biological science with regards to participation in sport, inter-alia.

Well that's sort of crap goes on, and to be fair it is parts of both sides, we are doomed for division, continuous acrimony, and possibly violence.... Even civil war.

Perhaps for the ultimate benefit of some third party #tinfoilhats

In another thread I couldn't even get agreement that it is important for the election process is seen to be above reproach, the particular entity referring to disparage me instead.... that is some toxic shyte TBH.... a face to face discussion on these matters would prove to be interesting in my opinion.

Which leads me to the question, as has been asked) mentioned above; is social media, big tech, etcetera leading us into this dystopian world which we are definitely heading full speed into?

 

[SirRumpole]

Which leads me to the question, as has been asked) mentioned above; is social media, big tech, etcetera leading us into this dystopian world which we are definitely heading full speed into?

Social media is doing us a favour in some ways by revealing the filth that is out there in society instead of it lurking in the corners.

The point I'm worried about is that it is encouraging deviant behaviour by encouraging the grouping of like minds, safety in numbers that sort of thing.

The sort of rubbish that QAnon serves up and the number of people that believe it is astonishing and worrying. I never thought that there were that number of simps and bogans among us.

So what do we do ? I think the tech giants need to censor qanon and the like when they can't back up their claims.

Fact checking and pointing out discrepancies, inaccuracies and just plain tripe is essential.

 

[wayneL]

Social media is doing us a favour in some ways by revealing the filth that is out there in society instead of it lurking in the corners.

The point I'm worried about is that it is encouraging deviant behaviour by encouraging the grouping of like minds, safety in numbers that sort of thing.

The sort of rubbish that QAnon serves up and the number of people that believe it is astonishing and worrying. I never thought that there were that number of simps and bogans among us.

So what do we do ? I think the tech giants need to censor qanon and the like when they can't back up their claims.

Fact checking and pointing out discrepancies, inaccuracies and just plain tripe is essential.

It becomes a slippery slope however, where do you stop the censorship, especially when the silicon valley platforms are governed by people unelected and who may have particular today political biases.

Should be censor critical race theory? How about critical gender theory? How about antifa? Fair dinkum communists? Flat earthers? And so one.

If oxygen is the best disinfectant then it applies to all points of view, including qanon.

The internet functioned better before big tech algorithms which promote echo chambers. people could debate about the merits or otherwise of almost any subject, in an open Town Square type forum.

algorithms have destroyed that and now that the tech firms have a political agenda, we have entered the age of censorship and digital tyranny.

Bad JuJu man, and there is no way that this could not result in violence of some order

 

[SirRumpole]

If oxygen is the best disinfectant then it applies to all points of view, including qanon.

No, sunlight is the best disinfectant, and that means shining the light of facts on the rubbish that people spout.

 

[wayneL]

No, sunlight is the best disinfectant, and that means shining the light of facts on the rubbish that people spout.

Sunlight yes, that's what I meant.

Dealing with too much keratolytic disease this year.... it kind of analogous in a way.

 

[sptrawler]

By the way what is QAnon?

 

[SirRumpole]

By the way what is QAnon?

It's a conspiracy theory that says That Donald Trump is trying to save the world from pedophiles.

Enough said ? Stop laughing anytime you like.

QAnon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[sptrawler]

It's a conspiracy theory that says That Donald Trump is trying to save the world from pedophiles.

Enough said ? Stop laughing anytime you like.

QAnon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Jeez, I've had five grandkids for the last week and am sitting with them as we speak, I can actually understand why parents run away from home, tomorrow lunchtime and it ends there is a god.

 

[The Triangle]

Tyranny is not the internet or the media. Turn off the computer. Dont read the paper. Problem solved.

Tyranny is being fined for not wearing a mask at a small airport in WA because politicians can't do their job over east.

Tyranny is infected foreigners being allowed in to australia to hit balls when Australians still cant get home because flights are reduced.

 

[Smurf1976]

The tyranny of tribalism is something that I would like to bring up also.

Personally I see it as the same old crap in a slightly different guise.

They used to "bash" gays, blacks and anyone else who was different to the majority.

Still doing the same thing just with different targets at the detail level but it's the same old same old, single out anyone who's different and bash the crap out of them either physically or with words.

Old targets = homosexuals, other races and so on.

New targets = intellectuals and anyone who simply wants to hear all arguments for and against something.

Same pie just with different filling.