Tyranny

[sptrawler]

That was 30 years ago.

What do you think of what Dutton wants to do now ?

He'd do exactly the same and I would be just as pizzed of with him.
That's why I don't hold any allegiance to either party. They both respond to the set of circumstances that face them, it is how they react that I judge them on, if it is in a manner I agree with fine if not I wont vote for them.
That goes for all sides.
Like I said McGowan IMO is doing a good job, I didn't like the fact he double the electricity supply charge, because that hits those who can least afford it, so I found it a bit hypocritical.
I do like the way he has managed the State border and kept the mining industry running.
I don't care one way or another about banning radar detectors, I don't use them, but it is an infringement on freedoms.
But on balance I'm pretty happy with his performance.

 

[SirRumpole]

He'd do exactly the same and I would be just as pizzed of with him.
That's why I don't hold any allegiance to either party. They both respond to the set of circumstances that face them, it is how they react that I judge them on, if it is in a manner I agree with fine if not I wont vote for them.
That goes for all sides.
Like I said McGowan IMO is doing a good job, I didn't like the fact he double the electricity supply charge, because that hits those who can least afford it, so I found it a bit hypocritical.
I do like the way he has managed the State border and kept the mining industry running.
I don't care one way or another about banning radar detectors, I don't use them, but it is an infringement on freedoms.
But on balance I'm pretty happy with his performance.

So you were pizzed off with Peter Reith and the Patrick Partners fiasco ?

Strike breaking is a distraction we are now talking about people becoming criminals for not "cooperating" with whatever Dutton and his band of Nazis want them to do.

Do you agree with that ? Did you read the article I posted ?

 

[sptrawler]

So you were pizzed off with Peter Reith and the Patrick Partners fiasco ?

Strike breaking is a distraction we are now talking about people becoming criminals for not "cooperating" with whatever Dutton and his band of Nazis want them to do.

Do you agree with that ? Did you read the article I posted ?

I thought Peter Reith was a nasty piece of work, also Malcolm Fraser.

 

[wayneL]

I agree that the LNP has been far more tyrannical then the Labor Party. However I don't think that that is because LNP is more tyrannical than labour, just that the opportunities presented themselves more often during LNP governments.

The truth is that the type of person who aspires to government, does have a more authoritarian / tyrannical bent and it doesn't matter whether they are from the left or the right.

Either way, neither party will get my vote any time in the foreseeable future, exactly because they are authoritarian @sshats... Which naturally excludes some minor parties on the same basis, most especially the Greens.

 

[dutchie]

The “Crisis” is Corporate Liberal Authoritarianism

 

[wayneL]

Not the America I grew up in!

 

[wayneL]

Verrrry interesting:

 

[dutchie]

US Today

 

[Knobby22]

 

[IFocus]

Nouriel Roubini doesn't pull any punches in the piece and paints a pretty ugly picture of what and why Trump could do.

Worth a read IMHO

" The US will thus most likely be the world’s new epicentre of political and geopolitical instability in the months and years ahead. America’s allies will need to hedge their bets against a future return of Trumpism, and strategic rivals will continue to try to destabilise the US through asymmetric warfare. The world is in for a long, ugly, bumpy ride. "

The US is the new focus of global instability | Nouriel Roubini

Donald Trump has few options left but to foment even more chaos both at home and abroad

www.theguardian.com

 

[sptrawler]

Nouriel Roubini doesn't pull any punches in the piece and paints a pretty ugly picture of what and why Trump could do.

Worth a read IMHO

" The US will thus most likely be the world’s new epicentre of political and geopolitical instability in the months and years ahead. America’s allies will need to hedge their bets against a future return of Trumpism, and strategic rivals will continue to try to destabilise the US through asymmetric warfare. The world is in for a long, ugly, bumpy ride. "

The US is the new focus of global instability | Nouriel Roubini

Donald Trump has few options left but to foment even more chaos both at home and abroad

www.theguardian.com

The U.S will become the Worlds epicentre of instability because it is controlled by the major multinationals, who want to to make the maximum money by building $hit in cheap labour and cheap cost countries, it isn't rocket science. There are 340million people in the U.S watching their lifestyle and hopes disappear to overseas countries, there are 10 million making a killing, yes there will be a lot of unrest.

As the western world runs out of credibility, due to the fact they produce nothing, the third world who are manufacturing everything will start to charge more for their products as their currencies are revalued, then the value of the western world currencies drops because it isn't as valuable then everything costs more.
Pretty straight forward, I think, but hey a bit of real poverty might help switch on the lights. Who knows.
Just my thoughts and I'm grateful I live in Australia, 25 million people with a huge mine in the backyard, so there is plenty of money to go around and plenty of fudge factor to turn it around.
Not so in the U.S IMO.
Just my opinion.

 

[dutchie]

The Swamp is making sure Trump does not run again.

 

[dutchie]

 

[IFocus]

The U.S will become the Worlds epicentre of instability because it is controlled by the major multinationals, who want to to make the maximum money by building $hit in cheap labour and cheap cost countries, it isn't rocket science. There are 340million people in the U.S watching their lifestyle and hopes disappear to overseas countries, there are 10 million making a killing, yes there will be a lot of unrest.

As the western world runs out of credibility, due to the fact they produce nothing, the third world who are manufacturing everything will start to charge more for their products as their currencies are revalued, then the value of the western world currencies drops because it isn't as valuable then everything costs more.
Pretty straight forward, I think, but hey a bit of real poverty might help switch on the lights. Who knows.
Just my thoughts and I'm grateful I live in Australia, 25 million people with a huge mine in the backyard, so there is plenty of money to go around and plenty of fudge factor to turn it around.
Not so in the U.S IMO.
Just my opinion.

SP the total wealth in the US has never been higher, the move of manufacturing away from the US (still falling under Trump BTW) has actually brought move wealth and made products not previously available to the masses now available.

Open trade and globalisation is the reason, you know the very thing Trump is against.

What hasn't happened is the political will to more fairly distribute that wealth even if they gave health care to all like Australia (the costs and grifting around health would also require addressing) or aggressively promote training etc instead of loading up students with mind boggling debt.

Both sides are guilty Republicans more so, when you don't have wages growth for 30 years or more then you know the system is broken in regards of politics governing for the benefit of the masses.

Instead you hear the BS everyone has unlimited opportunity, everyone can be a any thing they want etc, all from the moneyed elite and beloved by nut cases like the ones fighting for Trump who BTW are going to jail.

 

[sptrawler]

SP the total wealth in the US has never been higher, the move of manufacturing away from the US (still falling under Trump BTW) has actually brought move wealth and made products not previously available to the masses now available.

Open trade and globalisation is the reason, you know the very thing Trump is against.

What hasn't happened is the political will to more fairly distribute that wealth even if they gave health care to all like Australia (the costs and grifting around health would also require addressing) or aggressively promote training etc instead of loading up students with mind boggling debt.

Both sides are guilty Republicans more so, when you don't have wages growth for 30 years or more then you know the system is broken in regards of politics governing for the benefit of the masses.

Instead you hear the BS everyone has unlimited opportunity, everyone can be a any thing they want etc, all from the moneyed elite and beloved by nut cases like the ones fighting for Trump who BTW are going to jail.

Like I said IFocus the wealth is owned by 10% of the population, the rest are sliding more and more into poverty, the countries where the manufacturing is occurring are seeing their currencies strenghen as per Thailand etc and the wealth imbalance is happening there also.

The only way you can base sustainable wage rises is with improvements in productivity, to just keep increasing labour costs by increasing wages makes your product more expensive and less competitive against other countries therefore no one buys your product and you lose more jobs as the companies go broke.
I think grasping the big picture is peoples problem, just throwing more money around indiscriminately sounds wonderfull, and I'm all for it, but the end result is a Greece style economy, with poor public services and extreme poverty.
Australia can afford its healthcare system which is a wonderful thing, but it is only affordable until it can no longer be supported by the underpinning economy.
If the U.S wanted to bring it in I'm sure they could, also they could really hammer that top 10% of filthy rich, to pay for it.
But then you would just get the situation, where as happened here and in the U.K, the top 10% relocate to a lower taxing country, simple really.
The only way to fix the situation is to somehow re introduce higher skilled higher paying jobs, which usually comes from manufacturing, to do that it will necessitate the manufacturers losing some profit margin, which will be the increased labour component or tariffs on the imported products, as has been shown with Trump they aren't happy with that prospect.
A magic wand would be nice, if everything keeps going the way it is.

 

[IFocus]

Like I said IFocus the wealth is owned by 10% of the population, the rest are sliding more and more into poverty, the countries where the manufacturing is occurring are seeing their currencies strenghen as per Thailand etc and the wealth imbalance is happening there also.

The only way you can base sustainable wage rises is with improvements in productivity, to just keep increasing labour costs by increasing wages makes your product more expensive and less competitive against other countries therefore no one buys your product and you lose more jobs as the companies go broke.
I think grasping the big picture is peoples problem, just throwing more money around indiscriminately sounds wonderfull, and I'm all for it, but the end result is a Greece style economy, with poor public services and extreme poverty.
Australia can afford its healthcare system which is a wonderful thing, but it is only affordable until it can no longer be supported by the underpinning economy.
If the U.S wanted to bring it in I'm sure they could, also they could really hammer that top 10% of filthy rich, to pay for it.
But then you would just get the situation, where as happened here and in the U.K, the top 10% relocate to a lower taxing country, simple really.
The only way to fix the situation is to somehow re introduce higher skilled higher paying jobs, which usually comes from manufacturing, to do that it will necessitate the manufacturers losing some profit margin, which will be the increased labour component or tariffs on the imported products, as has been shown with Trump they aren't happy with that prospect.
A magic wand would be nice, if everything keeps going the way it is.

I think you missed the point cheers.

 

[sptrawler]

I think you missed the point cheers.

My apologies if I did, it wasn't intentional, I find the subject really interesting and there really isn't a definitive answer to the problem. So I'm sure we will be discussing it for a long time to come.
Inequality is rife in all societies, be they socialist or capitalist, greed knows no boundaries. We are very fortunate in Australia, that our mindset is fairly benevolent, from what I've seen and read it isn't that way in larger more competitive economies like the U.S, U.K, Europe etc
Indeed we are extremely fortunate, even our poorest have opportunity, welfare and healthcare.

 

[SirRumpole]

Like I said IFocus the wealth is owned by 10% of the population, the rest are sliding more and more into poverty, the countries where the manufacturing is occurring are seeing their currencies strenghen as per Thailand etc and the wealth imbalance is happening there also.

The only way you can base sustainable wage rises is with improvements in productivity, to just keep increasing labour costs by increasing wages makes your product more expensive and less competitive against other countries therefore no one buys your product and you lose more jobs as the companies go broke.
I think grasping the big picture is peoples problem, just throwing more money around indiscriminately sounds wonderfull, and I'm all for it, but the end result is a Greece style economy, with poor public services and extreme poverty.
Australia can afford its healthcare system which is a wonderful thing, but it is only affordable until it can no longer be supported by the underpinning economy.
If the U.S wanted to bring it in I'm sure they could, also they could really hammer that top 10% of filthy rich, to pay for it.
But then you would just get the situation, where as happened here and in the U.K, the top 10% relocate to a lower taxing country, simple really.
The only way to fix the situation is to somehow re introduce higher skilled higher paying jobs, which usually comes from manufacturing, to do that it will necessitate the manufacturers losing some profit margin, which will be the increased labour component or tariffs on the imported products, as has been shown with Trump they aren't happy with that prospect.
A magic wand would be nice, if everything keeps going the way it is.

I think UBI is probably inevitable if jobs keep being lost to overseas or to technology.


The spending power of the masses has to be maintained, otherwise the system falls in a heap.

 

[sptrawler]

I think UBI is probably inevitable if jobs keep being lost to overseas or to technology.

You're probably right, but how it is funded becomes the issue IMO, it in some way has to be reflective of the underlying economy, otherwise the productive side has very little attraction to encourage people to work.
If humans had a natural propensity to work, it wouldn't be an issue, but the majority would rather be doing leisure activities, if that becomes a really attractive option, who picks up the trash?

The spending power of the masses has to be maintained, otherwise the system falls in a heap.

That is true, but as with your or my household, the spending part isn't a problem the paying the bill is. Sooner or later everything gets maxed out.
But it will be interesting to see how this is all addressed, my guess and it is only a guess, is that the public service will increase again. Conductors/Guards will return to public transport, Governments will have to take over a lot of the essential services again and go back to the future of re introducing nurses schools, attached to hospitals rather than university based training. If the electrical system becomes too difficult to make money in, which IMO it well could, the government will have to again become heavily involved.
Recycling will become huge and may well end up being a function of local government.
Keeping people actively employed and busy, is just as important for social stability, as having a universal wage. Young people sitting around with nothing to do, creates its own set of social and health problems. If you are going to pay them a wage, you are far better off inventing jobs, than just having them sitting around IMO
Certainly interesting times

 

[Smurf1976]

We could well be the frog in the saucepan with the heat slowly being turned up. Unfortunately the so called protectors of Freedom; ie the Coalition are the worst offenders in taking away our freedoms. The other side has allowed them to do it.

Compare now versus 20 years ago and it's night versus day. Massive change in that time.

One particular issue now is that of individuals having lost the will to make any sort of public comment due to the reality that even a perfectly innocent, well intentioned and "neutral" comment has a good chance of being twisted into something perceived as offensive by and to someone.

As a trivial example to make the point, someone might say "that's terrible driving following the car ahead so closely".

The response then becomes "so you're accusing black people of being a danger to others and saying that only white men are capable. DISGUSTING"

Note that the original statement makes no mention of race or gender, only that whoever's driving that car isn't doing so safely.

That's the sort of rubbish that passes for debate these days sadly. End result is most of those who could add something of value have one by one walked away. In my view that's partly why it's suddenly such an issue with social media - there's been a mass exodus of more intelligent comment which means the rubbish is now the vast majority of what's left.

As for the whole issue, it's rapidly coming to a head in my view. The overall circumstances of closed borders and social media in particular is very rapidly approaching a point where it has to go one way or the other.

Sort the Covid issue then there's no reason to not open borders. Any failure to do so would answer the question.

For social media much the same, it's coming to a head. Either government's going to act or it's not but the time to do so is very rapidly approaching where either some clearly stated policy and objective enforcement is required, governments intervene, or there's a defacto decision to do nothing but we're not far from crunch time realistically I think.