TSLA - Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ)

[orr]

On TSLA's auto competition? the broarder product range coming from China, it needs to be emphisised, currently 30% and growing of domestic EV sales in the biggest auto market on the planet, in it's current state economic peril....interal Industrial scale supply chians. (not choked by Red Sea freight issues as we see atm.) and to a lesser degree what's coming from Korea. That capacity for offering options across competitive price points is likely to tempt a considerable percentage of the market. Both these countries auto makers have proved far more nimble than the auto makers of europe or the US and are on the front(er) foot of innovation.
On Energy storage .... It's a rich vein to mine.
The Semi ... scaled production this year; I want to see it.
Dry electrode scaling ... maybe a little harder than it first looked.
The solar roof? ... not to much talk on that these days.
That said; the vertical intergration of the conpany, manufacturing ethos, the nod to Herny Ford with the 'Highland' model vehilcals, and companies mission statement make it rightly where the best and the brigthest clamour to get a start.
And then of course there's a couple of 'futuristic's of 'semi tangable' game changing, PE changing and if you are invested and if they come off life changing, other product offerings.

As to todays stock price circa US $217? .... there's worse companies out there.

 

[Knobby22]

According to Teslas own sales figures , tesla sold around 1.81 million cars in 2023, all pure electric.

According to BYD's own sales figures , BYD sold a bit over 3 million units, all either pure electric or hybrids,
According to ArenaEV , all electric EV's contribution to the 3 million sales was just over 1.57 million vehicles, so yes the Tesla did sell more pure EV's than BYD.

BYD is also more than a car company, like Tesla it produces batteries.
From ArenaEV

View attachment 168532
Mick

BYD is an interesting company, they started in 1995 and supply over half of all the mobile phone batteries, also rubber wheeled trams, monorails, drive trains for other manufacturers (fin dreams), solar cells and systems for home storage, bulk storage, electronics, plastic moulding etc and supplies 30,000 forklifts to the world. Their cars, both hybrid and electric make up half the business.

Like Tesla they own all stages of manufacturing.
The South Koreans also have developed batteries and have pretty good car technology so I can see them as a major competitor also.

I wonder whether all the European, Japanese and US firms will be able to compete.

BYD Company - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[pozindustrial]

It seems to me that as if manufacturing electric vehicles and vertically integrating to compete with Tesla and BYD is not a gigantic enough task for legacy auto makers in Europe, Japan and US, they also have to face their lack of software which I think is huge. They are used to outsourcing nearly everything except assembly, but now Tesla has built vehicles that are fully integrated with their own software that runs the cars so they design, make and fit parts throughout the vehicle that respond to the software, then they can change the software over the air to make improvements. As Jim Farley from Ford said, they have over 150 suppliers of software for all the electric parts in the cars and they cannot get one to talk to another much less have control over it. Add incredibly fast constant innovation from Tesla and the Chinese to that and I cannot ever see those auto companies competing. Never. They will have to be taken over by Chinese companies first and then only the brand will remain. I don't know much about BYD except that the majority of their cars sell for much less than Teslas in China, but I had heard that some Chinese car manufacturers have much better software than European, Japanese or US brands. The world has moved too far for us to accept phone software that is constantly faulty and slow, PCs that are hard to use and anything else that relies on software so we are not going to put up with a car that has a slow-response screen, poor clarity, poor integration and other ancient practices when the car itself goes like a rocket. I believe their software has let them down badly and there is nothing they can do about it except give up. In my opinion they are dying. Perhaps they will shrink to only making bigger trucks and larger saloons, whatever is the last vehicle to go electric.

 

[Knobby22]

The future for Tesla? I like the make me look cool option.

https://fb.watch/pz7DAs2K1j/?mibextid=Nif5oz

 

[Value Collector]

It seems to me that as if manufacturing electric vehicles and vertically integrating to compete with Tesla and BYD is not a gigantic enough task for legacy auto makers in Europe, Japan and US, they also have to face their lack of software which I think is huge. They are used to outsourcing nearly everything except assembly, but now Tesla has built vehicles that are fully integrated with their own software that runs the cars so they design, make and fit parts throughout the vehicle that respond to the software, then they can change the software over the air to make improvements. As Jim Farley from Ford said, they have over 150 suppliers of software for all the electric parts in the cars and they cannot get one to talk to another much less have control over it. Add incredibly fast constant innovation from Tesla and the Chinese to that and I cannot ever see those auto companies competing. Never. They will have to be taken over by Chinese companies first and then only the brand will remain. I don't know much about BYD except that the majority of their cars sell for much less than Teslas in China, but I had heard that some Chinese car manufacturers have much better software than European, Japanese or US brands. The world has moved too far for us to accept phone software that is constantly faulty and slow, PCs that are hard to use and anything else that relies on software so we are not going to put up with a car that has a slow-response screen, poor clarity, poor integration and other ancient practices when the car itself goes like a rocket. I believe their software has let them down badly and there is nothing they can do about it except give up. In my opinion they are dying. Perhaps they will shrink to only making bigger trucks and larger saloons, whatever is the last vehicle to go electric.

Not to mention Tesla’s also in the charging business, the car charging network is Teslas super charger network.

 

[JohnDe]

Chamath Palihapitiya, Social Capital Founder and CEO and former Facebook executive, revealed that he sold his Tesla position last year. Palihapitiya has been bullish on Tesla for some time but exited his bet after last year’s stratospheric rise in Tesla shares. The high prices allowed him to generate cash to fund his other ideas.​

Palihapitiya had said in January that he believed that Tesla could easily double or triple again in stock value due to its “distributed energy business” and the upcoming changes in energy infrastructure towards cleaner energy. While Palihapitiya said he was somewhat wrong about Tesla’s growth opportunities, as he “completely underestimated” the EV market, he was still bullish on Tesla’s growth.​

“When you see it now, the market has flipped. ... Tesla will be very busy just being a best-in-class EV company,” he said.​

But while Palihapitiya has expressed his confidence in Tesla, many others are not so sure about the Elon Musk-led company. Michael Burry, the legendary investor who predicted the real estate bubble collapse of 2008 and made $800 million off of it, has put options on 1.1 million shares of Tesla worth $731 million at the end of June. The put options from Burry’s Scion Asset Management are based on a bearish bet where if the price of Tesla shares falls before the expiration of the put contract, they stand to earn considerable profits.​

 

[Dona Ferentes]

commentary from this week's conference call:
"Tesla remains priced as a growth stock, but its numbers suggest it’s going backwards.

"This time last year, analysts were expecting 2023 earnings would grow 31 per cent, and yet they fell 23 per cent. But this time last year, Tesla’s market value was $US341 billion, and today it is $US650 billion, which implies investors are looking for much more than Musk delivered on Thursday.

"Quite simply, they need this talk of a new wave of growth from the next-generation vehicle to be less a slice of Musk hyperbole, and more a promise of markedly more profitable times ahead...

 

[Knobby22]

I'm no chartist but that doesn't look ideal to me.

 

[InsvestoBoy]

I'll just keep posting this every so often

 

[InsvestoBoy]

Some Waymo discussion on HN today which touches on TSLA FSD

I wonder if that is good news. You can look at it either as they slowed how much... | Hacker News

news.ycombinator.com

 

[basilio]

What is fair remuneration for Elon Musk ? A Delware judge has ruled the current remuneration plan is just too high. When one compares it every other CEO ....

Elon Musk’s $56bn Tesla pay package is too much, judge rules​

Judge ruled his pay – six times larger than the combined pay of the 200 highest-paid executives in 2021 – was set inappropriately

Johana Bhuiyan and agencies
Wed 31 Jan 2024 10.06 AEDT

A Delaware judge on Tuesday ruled in favor of the investors who challenged billionaire Elon Musk’s $56bn Tesla pay package as excessive, a court filing showed. The judge found that Musk’s compensation was inappropriately set by the electric-vehicle maker’s board and struck down the package. If the decision survives any potential appeal, the Tesla board will have to come up with a new compensation package for Musk.
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...musk-neuralink-first-human-brain-chip-implant

“Never incorporate your company in the state of Delaware,” Musk responded on X, formerly Twitter.

Tesla shareholder Richard Tornetta filed the lawsuit five years ago, accusing the company’s chief executive of improperly dictating negotiations around the compensation package and claimed that the board acted without independence. The court’s opinion directed Tornetta to work with Musk’s legal team on an order implementing the judge’s decision. The ruling can be appealed to the Delaware supreme court.

Elon Musk’s $56bn Tesla pay package is too much, judge rules

Judge ruled his pay – six times larger than the combined pay of the 200 highest-paid executives in 2021 – was set inappropriately

www.theguardian.com

 

[mullokintyre]

What is fair remuneration for Elon Musk ? A Delware judge has ruled the current remuneration plan is just too high. When one compares it every other CEO ....

Elon Musk’s $56bn Tesla pay package is too much, judge rules​

Judge ruled his pay – six times larger than the combined pay of the 200 highest-paid executives in 2021 – was set inappropriately

Johana Bhuiyan and agencies
Wed 31 Jan 2024 10.06 AEDT

A Delaware judge on Tuesday ruled in favor of the investors who challenged billionaire Elon Musk’s $56bn Tesla pay package as excessive, a court filing showed. The judge found that Musk’s compensation was inappropriately set by the electric-vehicle maker’s board and struck down the package. If the decision survives any potential appeal, the Tesla board will have to come up with a new compensation package for Musk.
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...musk-neuralink-first-human-brain-chip-implant

“Never incorporate your company in the state of Delaware,” Musk responded on X, formerly Twitter.

Tesla shareholder Richard Tornetta filed the lawsuit five years ago, accusing the company’s chief executive of improperly dictating negotiations around the compensation package and claimed that the board acted without independence. The court’s opinion directed Tornetta to work with Musk’s legal team on an order implementing the judge’s decision. The ruling can be appealed to the Delaware supreme court.

Elon Musk’s $56bn Tesla pay package is too much, judge rules

Judge ruled his pay – six times larger than the combined pay of the 200 highest-paid executives in 2021 – was set inappropriately

www.theguardian.com

All that does is highlight the corruption within the US legal system.
Why do they even hear such a case is beyond me.
What on earth do they think they have any right or competence to make such a decision beggars belief.
its right up there with a jusdge declaring what the land value of a house in Floeida's mar-a=lago might be.
Mick

 

[InsvestoBoy]

The judge found that Musk’s compensation was inappropriately set by the electric-vehicle maker’s board and struck down the package.

lol.

Just add it to the list of times the TSLA board completely submitted to Musk

The funniest one was when they decided not to renew their directors’ and officers’ liability insurance policy because insurers were quoting high premiums due to Musk doing drugs and being a nonce, then Musk said "don't worry I will offer you the insurance personally" and they took it and later after finding someone to insure them properly they paid had to pay him $3m for 3 months of coverage

Elon Musk’s drug use is the latest headache for Tesla’s board

The Wall Street Journal detailed Elon Musk’s history of recreational drug use, the latest in a long line of tests for a board packed with the CEO’s acolytes.

www.afr.com

 

[JohnDe]

Interesting tax return.

 

[JohnDe]

Tesla forced to shut down Gigafactory Berlin after sabotage.

Reminds me of an old Science Fiction book I read many years ago

Ring Around the Sun​

 

[Knobby22]

Tesla forced to shut down Gigafactory Berlin after sabotage.

Reminds me of an old Science Fiction book I read many years ago

Ring Around the Sun​

Yea, sabotage. Nasty.

Lot of headwinds.

150 new models coming out from competition this year according to HSBC. Many are more luxurious with better tech. Tesla offerings are looking mid range.

I think Musk got carried away with his truck and has dropped the ball.
Next Tesla new model not till 2026!! 2 more years of this?

Also losing market share within China which has been a big profit generator and Europe is threatening import duties on Chinese made cars.

And to make it worse, Musk is threatening to leave Tesla if they don't give him 25% of the company (he presently owns 13% but was stopped by the courts through present shareholders).

Looking to me like Tesla may be in trouble.

 

[Value Collector]

All that does is highlight the corruption within the US legal system.
Why do they even hear such a case is beyond me.
What on earth do they think they have any right or competence to make such a decision beggars belief.
its right up there with a jusdge declaring what the land value of a house in Floeida's mar-a=lago might be.
Mick

As a Tesla share holder myself, I think the pay package was outrageous, and Musk himself should have refused it before it ever got to court.

I have no idea why he would accept such a large pay package, it really does put him at odds with shareholders, and goes against what much billionaire founders do. Look at Steve Jobs for example he earned $1 per year, Warren Buffett $100,000, Bezos about a million.

 

[mullokintyre]

As a Tesla share holder myself, I think the pay package was outrageous, and Musk himself should have refused it before it ever got to court.

I have no idea why he would accept such a large pay package, it really does put him at odds with shareholders, and goes against what much billionaire founders do. Look at Steve Jobs for example he earned $1 per year, Warren Buffett $100,000, Bezos about a million.

So did you complain at the time it was first raised?

Tesla shareholders approved the package in 2018, which gave Musk incentive to hit specific milestones, including a market valuation of $650 billion, which was more than 10 times Tesla’s value at the time. The trial hinged on a specific question: did Musk mislead the shareholders when he gave them the plan?
To get the 55 billion pay check , one of the things he had to do was to grow the market cap by around 590 billion, of which he was to get the equivalent of about 10% in shares and options.
Who got the biggest benefit out of all that, Musk or the other shareholders?

Mick

 

[Value Collector]

So did you complain at the time it was first raised?

Tesla shareholders approved the package in 2018, which gave Musk incentive to hit specific milestones, including a market valuation of $650 billion, which was more than 10 times Tesla’s value at the time. The trial hinged on a specific question: did Musk mislead the shareholders when he gave them the plan?
To get the 55 billion pay check , one of the things he had to do was to grow the market cap by around 590 billion, of which he was to get the equivalent of about 10% in shares and options.

At the time the package was announced, I remember thinking that it was excessive, but I also didn’t entirely believe it would be vested or that he would actually take it.

but my comments are more about the morality of any CEO accepting a deal like that, especially a founder with a large shareholding.

I wasn’t actually a shareholder in 2018, I purchased my shares in 2020 I think, and it wasn‘t a large holding for me, just mainly a speculation because I don’t really know how to value Tesla. I put in about $60k Australian and when it doubled I sold half, so what I have is free carried Now.

Who got the biggest benefit out of all that, Musk or the other shareholders?


Mick

Musk got the biggest benefit, because he is a shareholder so participated in the growth in equal respects to the other shareholders, plus was meant to receive An additional 15% of the companies market cap.

 

[mullokintyre]

At the time the package was announced, I remember thinking that it was excessive, but I also didn’t entirely believe it would be vested or that he would actually take it.

but my comments are more about the morality of any CEO accepting a deal like that, especially a founder with a large shareholding.

CEOS and Morality?
Don't make me laugh.

I wasn’t actually a shareholder in 2018, I purchased my shares in 2020 I think, and it wasn‘t a large holding for me, just mainly a speculation because I don’t really know how to value Tesla. I put in about $60k Australian and when it doubled I sold half, so what I have is free carried Now.

You were not a shareholder when it was mooted, but some years later you still purchased the shares.
Either you didn't do your homework on his potential pay or you accepted it at the time.
Bit late now to jump on the ethics bandwagon.

Musk got the biggest benefit, because he is a shareholder so participated in the growth in equal respects to the other shareholders, plus was meant to receive An additional 15% of the companies market cap.

???

Mick