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Trainee prop trading options, prep, credibility in Australia - Outsider Research

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OmegaTrader said:
Please Don't lump me in with other people and distort my words.

I reiterate, THAT IS NOT MY OPINION

I am simply presenting what people with commitments would prob think.

I am not one of those people.
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Ease up I just quoted your words , no distortion whatsoever , I asked a valid question given the facts you produced . Who can sustain not working for 1-2 years , no-one I know who might be interested in becoming a " pro " trader . Ive paid my dues and I know whats involved , I'm no newbie .
 

I was NOT replying to Quant

I was replying ThingyMajiggy and minwa.

People should read the entire post before commenting on what my opinion is.

I have been misconstrued four times in this thread already.


They say I have the wrong attitude and then quote you. (Quant)

My grasp of the english language can not be that bad or can it?

WTF
 

My mistake but you did quote me just prior
 
OmegaTrader said:
Please Don't lump me in with other people and distort my words.

I reiterate, THAT IS NOT MY OPINION

I am simply presenting what people with commitments would prob think.

I am not one of those people.
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My apologies, I assumed you were representing yourself when you post on forums, not others.
 
Quant said:
I don't know the details but I'm assuming the account you start trading will be so small it may as well be demo .
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Nah you are way off there. The size is usually around 1-5 full futures contracts. Very few would get to that size taking the normal cfd retail bleed route.

I wonder how many years the trader who does make it via the retail path wastes? I'm betting it's a lot more expensive than earning nothing for 6 months to a year while having your nose pointed in the right direction every day.

From what I have seen out of an intake of 10 - 15, one guy hits the ground running right from the start making some money reasonable quickly, one or two more show promise and are around breakeven in the first year and then take off after that. 5 or more will be cut after the first few months then the rest are a slow bleed til they drop or are cut. I think it's reasonable odds give no dollar risk. Of course depends on a heap of things not least the market conditions which at the moment are pretty tough.
 
Trembling Hand said:
Nah you are way off there. The size is usually around 1-5 full futures contracts. Very few would get to that size taking the normal cfd retail bleed route.
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Ok that's a little surprising

I wonder how many years the trader who does make it via the retail path wastes? I'm betting it's a lot more expensive than earning nothing for 6 months to a year while having your nose pointed in the right direction every day.
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Well I know I took a a few years to get it right and then I got shattered by GFC so I def know the road , although it took me a couple years to get serious about it . Honestly in my experience I doubt more than 5% retail make the grade long term , its a hard slog no doubt but I don't really think the success rate of prop traders will be multiples better , I suppose it varies on the shop and their objectives , the selection process might help weed out the no hopers thus improving the strike rate . As you suggest it depends on market conditions/phase as to how easy it will be , I know I hit my straps 05 to 07 and in hindsite it was the ideal time . 08/09 brought me back to earth quick smart and made me re-evaluate my methods bigtime after I got over the emotional scars that catastrophic losses bring . Today I see that as the best thing that ever happened to me tradingwise although I wouldn't have said that in 2010 when I was gunshy and reluctant to hold a position for long at all . Learning to trade is a tough gig either way id suggest and the chances of success relatively low . The quality of the guy teaching at a prop shop obv a big part of it as well and at least the guy here is well credentialed although I do wonder why the prop shop route .

Would seem there is no easy answer
 
Quant said:
. Who can sustain not working for 1-2 years , no-one I know who might be interested in becoming a " pro " trader .
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You might be surprised... on the equities desk every now and then there are people with very solid financial industry experience joining as newbie prop traders. They may not have traded prop equities before, but they could have been a broker, credit guy in investment bank, risk guy in a hedge fund or trader for a commercial bank etc. Some of them have made enough in the past so they can afford to earn no income for a year or two whilst sending 2 kids through private school.

So there.... now you know indirectly someone who can sustain not working for 1-2 years and is interested in becoming a pro trader. Not all of them become successful traders, mind you. The mentality of "eat what you hunt" is very different for someone who's used to earning a salary.
 
Prop firms make money in a "Training program" and other near-market things (books) now. But not by the trading =))
 
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In order to maintain steady cashflow, almost all successful prop shops are marketing their training programs now. They recognize that in times of low volatility, its the only way to ride it out.... tighten up the risk controls and sell education. If they can create a brand around it, it can be a viable part of a smart business plan.

I don't believe it is unreasonable to start a proprietary trading business. As long as you have a good basis for training, enough capital for risk (margin) and expenses, a couple of good partners, some vol....it should work. I have a mate that's willing to throw in 50k, no questions asked and hes a prop trader...

If anyone else is interested in doing something here in Brisbane, PM me.

sorry to hijack your thread OT...
 
Mirus3000 said:
Prop firms make money in a "Training program" and other near-market things (books) now. But not by the trading =))
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Could you please outline you experience in the matter or any props you have dealt with.
Thanks


How much equity will $15 buy in your firm ahahah

Lol I already hijacked the thread by ranting. It is hard not to get in the ranting brawl especially when provoked by pseudo anonymous people.

I can understand the sentiment of buyer beware, I have come across a lot of those get rich quick by trading courses.

I suppose in reality (as is most of the time) it is somewhere in between, commercial gain and being genuine.




From my recollection
Verbatim with Darren.

Darren Do you have any questions?
Me There is a certain sense of cynicism out there about props and that they are just trying to sell courses.
Darren We have a certain sense of cynicism with people coming to us... It is not just like we go right here bro here you go here is your login... we actually have people come out at the trading desk with us. Day in day out .The high price point is to make sure that people are genuine..

Me To stop the time wasters
Darren Yeah the time wasters and people who say they have a passion and really don't. We put alot of our own time and effort into it. We don't make any money by trading guys in the trainee program.We want to make sure they are committed to it. etc etc
 
OmegaTrader said:
Could you please outline you experience in the matter or any props you have dealt with.
Thanks
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I had worked for russian prop named Alor . We traded USA and Russian markets(stocks, futures). Sinse the volatility on world marked have droped under floor It became too hard to make money on market. Now props make money on their courses and extra fee for commission ,"The Best infrastructure " , a mentor
and so forth.
But In the real world, these things are useless.
 
Just putting it out there.


I recall verbatim. We will get back to you in mid may. Also referring to a previous post of the job-mail sent to candidates.


The job is no longer online.
https://www.seek.com.au/job/33341205

This job is no longer advertised
Expired jobs remain on SEEK for 90 days after last advertised, or until they are removed by the advertiser.
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Just wondering options on potential actions I can take given the context.

1) Wait and sit on my hands
2) Reach out -The way/If I should do this?
3) Re apply later.

Given that the trainees route it is preferable for no trading experience. I am trying to work out the play to make from here...

I hope this an indication of anything
 
Reach out, pester the crap out of them until you're in....nothing beats persistence!
 
Why wouldn't you have already made personal contact? It's clear as day from that chat with traders podcast that Darren openly invited contact.

Even without that info bloody hell! if ya want the position go get it. You surely don't think being anything but aggressive will get you highly sort job with very few position? Hell any decent job now days.

We are in the age of BS and relationships. A resume will never cut it now. It aint 1980....
 
Exactly, contact him. I spoke to him on Skype for 40 minutes on Monday.
 
The firm is the former Swift Trade .
I saw the office of their partner in Moscow.
I think they have a partners in Australia or Singapore. You can ask them to visit partner offices
 
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