Trading The SPI - NON-Gann Techniques

[Trembling Hand]

I guess you and T/H are trading Opens and Closes where you get this massive volitility as its so illiquid.

While I and others like me dont wish to be involved,for the reason you do want to be involved.

Illiquid

You would of thought that someone who has volume as a major part of their system would actually know when the volume is expected to come into the market.

I guess you are right,

God help us!

Yeh I know I just dont have any idea.
Ignorance is bliss and profitable.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Here is an example for you guys. Who was watching DOM today towards close?

230 lot at 298s, moved it up to 300s, before they STACKED the bids with more lots of 200+ in a row. That is a SERIOUS statement, that cannot be seen on the chart. A lot of people, made a lot of money, front running that size.

40 lots for just 10 ticks with plenty to lean on, is a cool and effortless 10k in a few minutes right there.

Here is the video of the action Mr C is talking about. In some ways this is perfect example of ONE DOM trade but in others its exactly the type that get people confused.

It was an obvious trade once the bids got hit and then refreshed and lifted but I have to say when this kind of vol appears in the order book I hit it not front run it. In fact its become one of my fastest and favorable trades after 4:10. If a big order (50, 80,150) gets placed out side the first bid/ask level I will hit into it straight away. Even if it means flipping positions.

And this kind of stuff is where DOM readers get the bad rap. Experts that haven't a friggin clue ASSUME they know what we do. They ASSUME we look at whats sitting in the book and trade with it. When 70% of the time I trade against it.

http://tremblinghandtrader.typepad.com/SPI @ 3300.avi

Warning its a big file, 18 meg! its from 4:00 to 4:30 and replayed at 6 times actual speed. best to right click the link and save rather than stream it.

 

[tech/a]

Very swift moves in the last and 1st 30 mins are bought about by poor liquidity as larger parcels buy or sell whatever is on offer.
Ive seen a 1 min bar swing up and down within it self 10-15 ticks many times in the last 30 minutes trading. Large swings in seconds.


I was going to spend sometime working through questions and some answers.
Not going to flog a dead horse.

You guys can trade as you like its valid for you and suits your psychology. You like the flashy Gordon Gekko---sell sell---buy buy excitement.

Seems I'm vastly different to most here in slow and steady.

Finally.
Trading profitably without balls of steel and the mental dexterity of Bobby Fischer is achieveable.
So is the reverse.

And its goodby from me and goodby from him---on this thread.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Seems I'm vastly different to most here in slow and steady.

Glad to hear that Tech but it still doesn't answer the question as to why you feel the need to dish out criticism of traders who are vastly more profitable than you?

Random question, Whats your height

 

[tech/a]

6'2
Big enough and definately ugly enough to take care of you lot.
Think there are a few here who have met me.

Its not an attack on you or anyone else who wishes to trade as you do.
It seems as if it is.
My rant was started with the HSI guy making a statement like I'm $30k down in a sim----but that doesnt matter.

Frank and MS Tradesim made the point far better than I.

 

[James Austin]

Seems I'm vastly different to most here in slow and steady.

Finally.
Trading profitably without balls of steel and the mental dexterity of Bobby Fischer is achieveable.
So is the reverse.

And its goodby from me and goodby from him---on this thread.

tech,

i am with you re slow and steady, and no doubt others are also.

my interpretation of the thread over the week is that some may have been miffed that A] you havent been SPI trading for long; what about 5 trades!? and, B] your view of others' methods came across at times as divisive Vs. constructive criticism. So i think we can all see how things are in a tangle.

any way, tech, please consider starting a thread not unlike franks, detailing your SPI trading method, trades you have taken etc. i'm sure many will be interested.

james

 

[wayneL]

6'2
Big enough and definately ugly enough to take care of you lot.
Think there are a few here who have met me.

Now he's the greatest fighter in the world. Are there no bounds to your prowess?

 

[Trembling Hand]

Its not an attack on you or anyone else who wishes to trade as you do.
It seems as if it is.
My rant was started with the HSI guy making a statement like I'm $30k down in a sim----but that doesnt matter.

You never tested a system that had a draw down of 30%.

 

[IFocus]

Haha. Very entertaining. Though I can't believe this kind of banter is going on amongst experienced traders.

Nor can I

But there are some very good insights for anyone starting out.

 

[MRC & Co]

In defence of RobinHood, he is trying out everything and anything under the sun on the SIM. It's the beginning of the process of creating your own style in scalping and how most good training programs begin.

As for the issue of size, yes, not usually a good idea to frontrun it. You don't know who is out there on the other side to clip it. But if that size, is not clipped and starts ticking towards the price action and going to market, this is when it's usually safer to frontrun it (except lately, with what looks like a bot and auto spreader doing it all day long and then pulling it all after taking half their fills).

 

[Trembling Hand]

In defence of RobinHood, he is trying out everything and anything under the sun on the SIM. It's the beginning of the process of creating your own style in scalping and how most good training programs begin.

But some just,

know what works and why.

Right from the start. Oh hold on. His systems don't work. His stopped it. He actually had no edge. It was just the bull market spewing out money like a broken ATM. LOL. So like most punters in this game his on the merry-go-round of changing Instrument, Time frames, System, Approaches & Application. The sad thing is he still thinks he knows what works but every thing he has tried to this point has stopped working yet he can still plainly state he knows what works. He knows what doesn't work! His systems! Why stop something that makes money? Ya don't.

Just LOL.

 

[IFocus]

It was an obvious trade once the bids got hit and then refreshed and lifted but I have to say when this kind of vol appears in the order book I hit it not front run it. In fact its become one of my fastest and favorable trades after 4:10. If a big order (50, 80,150) gets placed out side the first bid/ask level I will hit into it straight away. Even if it means flipping positions.

And this kind of stuff is where DOM readers get the bad rap. Experts that haven't a friggin clue ASSUME they know what we do. They ASSUME we look at whats sitting in the book and trade with it. When 70% of the time I trade against it.

I tested this some time ago and it worked But I didn't have the psychology to trade it for real

 

[MRC & Co]

MRC

Both can trade the same instrument profitably.

What is this, it's not even part of the debate.

Tech, maybe you should go back and re-read the thread from the part where you attacked what I said about order flow and DOM, without having ANY IDEA what you were talking about. You poked fun at it even, if that is not arrogance and ignorance, I don't know what is.

Unbelievable. As I have said many times, I respect your time in the markets, your dedication too it and your time spent on the site. I just think you have a gripe against scalpers, which all became first apparent with your 'slight expectancy vindicating your observations' on TH original scalping thread. There was absolutely no reason to stick your nose in a mock a method you have absolutely no clue about.

Now, back to the SPI. Some big bailouts being talked about by both Obama and Rudd, definately looking forward to the volume and volatility it should bring over the coming few weeks! Perhaps even a surprise larger than expected rate cut by the RBA? Times are starting to get interesting again, after the Christmas dead period.

 

[Trembling Hand]

I just think you have a gripe against scalpers, which all became first apparent with your 'slight expectancy vindicating your observations' on TH original scalping thread.

Ironic statement considering he has abandoned his beloved Idiot Wave and VSA on an EOD basis and now moving closer towards a scalping method/time frame.

That he was the one with slight expectancy that was only propped up by a bull market & now left with knowing what doesn't work! while short term traders are going from strength to strength with every shift in the market.

Just too funny!!

 

[Cartman]

It was an obvious trade once the bids got hit and then refreshed and lifted but I have to say when this kind of vol appears in the order book I hit it not front run it.
If a big order (50, 80,150) gets placed out side the first bid/ask level I will hit into it straight away. Even if it means flipping positions.

70% of the time I trade against it.

so u find that the bid Vol is more often a 'red herring' --- is this only the case during the first 30/last 30 mins?

do u wait for confirmation (vol starting to hit the bids) b4 hitting the market or just go with the gut early ?

 

[Trembling Hand]

Whats confirmation?? The trade going to be wrong or right, waiting is only going to rob you of the move, having you getting in at the end of it with stops a mile wide.

Confirmation = Chop, Chop.

 

[Cartman]

Whats confirmation?? The trade going to be wrong or right, waiting is only going to rob you of the move, having you getting in at the end of it with stops a mile wide.

Confirmation = Chop, Chop.

TH --- not talking about waiting for the next 1 minute bar to eventuate -------

i was thinking a coupla decent chops at the large bids sitting there to indicate the opposite position is a good strategy ?? (maybe only a few seconds) ---------

i dont have DOM available yet so just thinking out aloud here ----

eg -- in mirc's example --- if there were a crapload of bids sitting there, he was happy to load up, but u r saying most of the time u will go the other way yes? ---

just interested in what makes u choose the other direction if u dont wait for a coupla decent hits at the sitting orders ------

i assume gut feel(aka experience!) coupled with a very tight stop?? --- is that close?? ----- just trying to learn here

 

[Trembling Hand]

No waiting. in this example I'm talking about the unique action of the SPI after cash close but it happens to some degree during cash hours as well just not so violently nor as quick. It is literally a 5 second trade. Hit whatever is in front of the big bid/offer, move your limit exit right behind or on top of the big order. Let the Bigger Boyz take you out as they chew the volume. It really is as rapid as a blink. A true scalp for a a punch drunk nutter on ICE like myself.

I will try and find an example and do another vid tomorrow before I p!ss off to Japa's for a couple of weeks.

 

[BentRod]

Here is the video of the action Mr C is talking about. In some ways this is perfect example of ONE DOM trade but in others its exactly the type that get people confused.

It was an obvious trade once the bids got hit and then refreshed and lifted but I have to say when this kind of vol appears in the order book I hit it not front run it. In fact its become one of my fastest and favorable trades after 4:10. If a big order (50, 80,150) gets placed out side the first bid/ask level I will hit into it straight away. Even if it means flipping positions.

And this kind of stuff is where DOM readers get the bad rap. Experts that haven't a friggin clue ASSUME they know what we do. They ASSUME we look at whats sitting in the book and trade with it. When 70% of the time I trade against it.

http://tremblinghandtrader.typepad.com/SPI @ 3300.avi

Warning its a big file, 18 meg! its from 4:00 to 4:30 and replayed at 6 times actual speed. best to right click the link and save rather than stream it.

Thanks for the Video, I can see exactly what MRC was referring to.

cheers

 

[Cartman]

No waiting. in this example I'm talking about the unique action of the SPI after cash close but it happens to some degree during cash hours as well just not so violently nor as quick. It is literally a 5 second trade. Hit whatever is in front of the big bid/offer, move your limit exit right behind or on top of the big order. Let the Bigger Boyz take you out as they chew the volume. It really is as rapid as a blink. A true scalp for a a punch drunk nutter on ICE like myself.

I will try and find an example and do another vid tomorrow before I p!ss off to Japa's for a couple of weeks.

ok gotcha --- thanks for that ---