Tony Abbott for PM

[Duckman#72]

Only if Mr Abbott actually has something better to offer.

Yes certainly. I just believe that so far the Rudd "solution" is very clinical. It is primarily about new layers of pen-pushers, additional bean counters, changes in accountability and GST funding adjustments. There is nothing in the policy to excite and move voters in my opinion. In fact voters need to be told by Rudd -"Trust me, it will work". Labor at the moment is getting a tick from people only because they have a policy. The true support of this policy will only be seen when the Coalition release theirs. Climate Change Mark II.

If the Coalition play their cards right, they will demonstrate HOW their policy will make a difference to patients. Make it an emotive issue.

As a side issue did anyone see Insight on SBS tonight? Talk about a room full of "odd-bods".

Duckman

 

[Whiskers]

Yes certainly. I just believe that so far the Rudd "solution" is very clinical. It is primarily about new layers of pen-pushers, additional bean counters, changes in accountability and GST funding adjustments.

Yeah, I like the notion of reforming the hospital system in general, but I think Abbots proposal to revert back to a local board system needs to be part of it.

Ray Hadlee today identified a NSW school that somehow oversaw the management of new buildings and appeared to get much better value for money than others managed by the bureaucracy.

I think it will be the same with the hospital system. There really needs to be more involvement by the community in the administration of things like health and schools if for no other reason than a more efficient audit/conformation process and consequent better quality decision making by public officals.

 

[Calliope]

I think the general agreement is that the debate was a "non-event" as a vote changer....
Despite the positives Abbott can take away, I think Rudd clearly won - even if was because Rudd was not expected to do as well as he did.
Duckman

I agree. All we heard from Rudd was that he has a health scheme and Abbott doesn't. Abbott's job was to wipe the self-satisfied smirk off Rudd's face. He clearly failed.

 

[WaveSurfer]

....Labor at the moment is getting a tick from people only because they have a policy.....

It's the same ol' BS, just the other party in power.

Anyone ever notice this? The party in power puts forward a policy and the other does everything they can to cut it down while saying theirs is (will be) better. BUT, it's coming soon

I'm not on either side, it's the same ol' rhetorical BS no matter who has the majority in the house of sin. Credit to Rudd, at least he put his gonads on the chopping board.

Going :topic ... Did anyone see the live open heart surgery on SBS last night? Awesome, absolutely awesome.

 

[Duckman#72]

It's the same ol' BS, just the other party in power.

Anyone ever notice this? The party in power puts forward a policy and the other does everything they can to cut it down while saying theirs is (will be) better. BUT, it's coming soon

I'm not on either side, it's the same ol' rhetorical BS no matter who has the majority in the house of sin. Credit to Rudd, at least he put his gonads on the chopping board.

I agree with you in part Wavesurfer, but that's politics. One party puts out a policy and then defends it by saying "mine is better than yours". You very rarely get policies put out within days of each other. Thats our system. Like I said earlier, the Opposition was bashed around the head 12 months ago for not "having a climate change position". How time changes things.

I will disagree with you on the comment "Credit to Rudd, at least he put his gonads on the chopping board".

He really had no choice. He was elected on the platform of "cleaning up the health system". Remember his promise of "taking over the hospital system within 12 months if it wasn't fixed" and "the end of the blame game".

Don't for one minute think that Rudd is being proactive here. It is about doing "something" because of hollow election promises.

Duckman

 

[WaveSurfer]

I agree with you in part Wavesurfer, but that's politics. One party puts out a policy and then defends it by saying "mine is better than yours". You very rarely get policies put out within days of each other. Thats our system. Like I said earlier, the Opposition was bashed around the head 12 months ago for not "having a climate change position". How time changes things.

I will disagree with you on the comment "Credit to Rudd, at least he put his gonads on the chopping board".

He really had no choice. He was elected on the platform of "cleaning up the health system". Remember his promise of "taking over the hospital system within 12 months if it wasn't fixed" and "the end of the blame game".

Don't for one minute think that Rudd is being proactive here. It is about doing "something" because of hollow election promises.

Duckman

As Bad Religion puts it so well...

The faces always different, the rhetoric the same.
But we swallow it all and we see nothing change

Rudd could have left it as yet another broken promise, he didn't have to put his nads on the line. Either way, he would've had them severed.

I certainly don't swallow any of it. Health care reform is not a quick fix. Take it from someone who is married to a health care professional in the front line. I have stories that would open your eyes a mile and a half wide. If they (the front line professionals) can't agree on what to do, some poly cracker certainly isn't going to be able to fix it. Be it Rudd the Dudd, Abbott the Maggot or ___insert the next t*sser here___

 

[noco]

THE WORM SHOULD BE BANNED on these debates as they are conducted by one sided left winged journalist who like to see Rudd win. This was clearly noted when Howard was involved in debates, the worm would turn down the moment he opened his mouth.
The media are giving Rudd a clear win, when yesterday's poll on Sky News and the Courier Mail clearly showing Abbott won hands down.

Sky News : Abbott 76%
Rudd 33%

Courier Mail : Abbott 58.15%
Rudd 36.01%

Abbott has been leader of the Coalition for 4 months and the media expected him to have a detailed alternative to fix a broken hospital system neglected for years by state Labor Governments. Rudd has a pipe dream which he knows is popular with the public, but is lacking in detail.

If I was asked on a poll, "should the hospital system be fixed" sure I would say "YES". Because Rudd has received an 80% support from the public he believes he can now dictate the terms no matter whether his scheme is good or bad. Rudd is all spin as nothing is going to happen to are hospitals untill 2014. Even some of his smarter premiers have doubts about Rudd's hair brain scheme.

Instead of wasting money on the home insulation debacle and the Julia Gillard school memorial halls, how many new hospitals beds could that money have provided? What a wasted oportunity there was to have fixed a broken hospital system.

Give Abbott time and he will trump Rudd on this hospital fix!

 

[Duckman#72]

THE WORM SHOULD BE BANNED on these debates. This was clearly noted when Howard was involved in debates, the worm would turn down the moment he opened his mouth.

This is my point - sure have the worm and release the findings after the debate if you like. But what possible purpose does the worm have when it is influenced the moment people speak, and sometimes before they speak.

Just another example of style over substance in politics. Debates become less about the content and more about the visual.

There is also a biological bias inbuilt in the worm towards Labor, as ultimately it will always head towards manure. The worm LOVED Latham.

Duckman

 

[WaveSurfer]

....Instead of wasting money on the home insulation debacle and the Julia Gillard school memorial halls, how many new hospitals beds could that money have provided? What a wasted oportunity there was to have fixed a broken hospital system.

LOL, lack of beds is not the problem. Ask anyone who actually works in a hospital. Countless beds are there unoccupied in most if not all hospitals. There just isn't the staff available to look after the patients who would be occupying them!

Give Abbott time and he will trump Rudd on this hospital fix!

Double LOL, classic call. They both won't be able to fix it, neither will the next cracker.


Funny how all the solutions come from people who have no idea what's actually going on behind the scenes

I only get a teeny tiny view from my wife. Can't begin to imagine what it's like across the board.

 

[jancha]

I agree that Tony Abbott may have gone about as far as he can go with the 'hard hitting' negative comments, in the absence of any actual forward thinking policy. If he's not careful he will throw away the advantage he has gained so far.

The successful politicians have recognised that politics is an ever changing game, and what worked for them last week will not necessarily work again this week.
My concern re Abbott is that he (and his Party) has decided his persona is one of "attack dog" and nothing else. That will soon wear very thin with the public.

I dont particularly agree with you Julie.
As i said before i think Abbott criticized Rudd thru the debate because he didn't have a policy in place or more to the point a policy draft that he & his party didn't want to disclose just yet and because of that the only weapon he had in the debate was to ridicule & criticize.
It's all about strategy & timing.
They may lose the advantage by putting out a proposal too soon before the election.
That's why in closing Abbott hoped for 3 more debates prior to the election.
To say that Abbott & his party have decided his persona as an attack dog & nothing else is ridiculous.

 

[WaveSurfer]

This is my point - sure have the worm and release the findings after the debate if you like. But what possible purpose does the worm have when it is influenced the moment people speak, and sometimes before they speak.

Just another example of style over substance in politics. Debates become less about the content and more about the visual.

There is also a biological bias inbuilt in the worm towards Labor, as ultimately it will always head towards manure. The worm LOVED Latham.

Duckman

Ask yourselves, who controls the worm? I certainly didn't have any influence there. The opinion of one is not necessarily the opinion of all.

If you're silly enough to watch an ambiguous worm and not listen to what they're actually saying, god help us all.

 

[newbie trader]

Funny how all the solutions come from people who have no idea what's actually going on behind the scenes

Agreed, this doesnt only happen within the healthcare sector though, its also a problem (well in the past anyway) within education where the people who make the decisions aren't actually teachers, have never spent a day in a classroom and do not understand what needs to be done.

N.T

 

[Calliope]

Don't for one minute think that Rudd is being proactive here. It is about doing "something" because of hollow election promises.
Duckman

Rudd is basing his re-election strategy around the heath scheme. This is the issue which resonates most loudly with the electorate. All other issues are now peripheral.

Abbott is wasting his time bleating about Rudd's lies. Rudd is a serial liar, but that is good policy if his lies can convince "working families" that Abbott stands between them and his promise of affordable and timely health care.

However like all Rudd's promises the outcomes are well into the future and will not happen during his next term.

 

[Duckman#72]

If you're silly enough to watch an ambiguous worm and not listen to what they're actually saying, god help us all.

Exactly!!!

So why have the worm? If it is a case of "God help us all" by watching the worm rather than listening to the debate, it must be questioned why it is there.

Duckman

 

[WaveSurfer]

Agreed, this doesnt only happen within the healthcare sector though, its also a problem (well in the past anyway) within education where the people who make the decisions aren't actually teachers, have never spent a day in a classroom and do not understand what needs to be done.

N.T

Spot on there N.T. I believe it's still a problem. Not just in the education/health systems either.

Seems to be just the "way it is" with almost everything. And we continue to "swallow it all" mind you.

I believe your profession has a pretty tight grip on things mate, not that I'd know anything about it. lol

 

[WaveSurfer]

Exactly!!!

So why have the worm? If it is a case of "God help us all" by watching the worm rather than listening to the debate, it must be questioned why it is there.

Duckman

I have no idea matey why it's there. If I had control of it, she would have looked exactly like this


Dudd

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maggot


Maybe, just maybe, raising to Rudd's favour for the smallest increment of time and points because he at least had a policy. At least it's something to work from. Collaborate with people that know what's going on and actually make it something worthy of implementation.

All I interpreted was yet another pointless mud slinging match.

 

[Julia]

According to today's "The Australian" the worm was operated by a studio audience at channel nine by an audience selected by a research company on the basis that their emails had said they were uncommitted voters.
Each person was paid $50 for their attendance.

 

[jancha]

Who cares about the worm.
As duckman said the worm always will move towards the manure.

 

[newbie trader]

Spot on there N.T. I believe it's still a problem. Not just in the education/health systems either.

Seems to be just the "way it is" with almost everything. And we continue to "swallow it all" mind you.

I believe your profession has a pretty tight grip on things mate, not that I'd know anything about it. lol

HA! My parents are both teachers hence my limited knowledge. I would never want to be a teacher takes a special kind of person...A lot of work for little pay...but yes we do swallow it and then long term it comes back to bite us a bit.

N.T

 

[noco]

LOL, lack of beds is not the problem. Ask anyone who actually works in a hospital. Countless beds are there unoccupied in most if not all hospitals. There just isn't the staff available to look after the patients who would be occupying them!



Double LOL, classic call. They both won't be able to fix it, neither will the next cracker.


Funny how all the solutions come from people who have no idea what's actually going on behind the scenes

I only get a teeny tiny view from my wife. Can't begin to imagine what it's like across the board.

Perhaps you should pay a visit to Townsville Hospital sometime. People are stacked in the hallways waiting up to 24 hours because of the lack of beds. The Beattie Labor Government built the new hospital smaller than the one they pulled down. How smart is that?

If your wife knows something and has the courage, she should blow the whistle