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Tony Abbott for PM

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noco said:
Perhaps you should pay a visit to Townsville Hospital sometime. People are stacked in the hallways waiting up to 24 hours because of the lack of beds.
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:rolleyes:

It's the same problem Oz wide buddy. Have you actually looked in the hospital to see how many beds were truly unoccupied? Or know the bed manager to ask what the bed status really is? I bet it is the same as everywhere else. Hands tied by the bureaucratic red tape from the management upstairs.

noco said:
If your wife knows something and has the courage, she should blow the whistle
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What go to the press? And say bye-bye to your hard earned career... There is actually a policy in the hospital where only the hospital media representative can talk to the press. Otherwise you're out on sufficient grounds.... Yep they have it all covered. You whistle blow, bye-bye.

Would like to see what you'd do in the same situation :rolleyes:

Know it alls that actually know squat. Sorry, but you asked for it.
 
WaveSurfer said:
What go to the press? And say bye-bye to your hard earned career... There is actually a policy in the hospital where only the hospital media representative can talk to the press. Otherwise you're out on sufficient grounds.... Yep they have it all covered. You whistle blow, bye-bye.
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Is that part of her employment contract that she signed or just simple hospital policy?

(Just out of curiosity, and if I were in her shoes I would not blow the wistle, its not her responsibility if you get where im coming from).

N.T
 
Let me just add that I am the one who is also on the raw end of the stick. I'm the one who has to comfort my wife when she comes home in tears because of what goes on. I am the one who relieves her pain from the feeling that she is not able to do her job properly with the red tape around her hands. I am the one who would not hesitate to whistle blow and bring this all to the surface.

SHE is the one that would cop the brunt of it all if I were to do that. Bye-bye job, bye-bye 10 years of school to get where she is. AMA will ensure that she never works anywhere in Oz again. The only place she'd be able to work is in Botswana.

She is not even allowed to tell me what's going on in there. She has to, or she'd be in the nut house by now.

My wife is the most courageous person I know. To say that she doesn't have courage is demeaning, derogatory and utterly pin friggen headed. :nono:
 
WaveSurfer said:
:rolleyes:

It's the same problem Oz wide buddy. Have you actually looked in the hospital to see how many beds were truly unoccupied? Or know the bed manager to ask what the bed status really is? I bet it is the same as everywhere else. Hands tied by the bureaucratic red tape from the management upstairs.



What go to the press? And say bye-bye to your hard earned career... There is actually a policy in the hospital where only the hospital media representative can talk to the press. Otherwise you're out on sufficient grounds.... Yep they have it all covered. You whistle blow, bye-bye.

Would like to see what you'd do in the same situation :rolleyes:

Know it alls that actually know squat. Sorry, but you asked for it.
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Mate, I don't have to go to the Townsville Hospital to find out. It's in the Townsville local paper almost daily. People stacked in hallways. You obviously don't know squat yourself. Injured patients sitting in ambulances for up to 4 hours waiting their turn for ER treatment. My guess is you probably live in Victoria where the hospital system is more efficient than NSW or QLD.

We had a good whistle blower in Bundaberg QLD and as far I know she still has her job, so what's the problem?
 
newbie trader said:
Is that part of her employment contract that she signed or just simple hospital policy?

(Just out of curiosity, and if I were in her shoes I would not blow the wistle, its not her responsibility if you get where im coming from).

N.T
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Both mate. It's even AMA policy. They will ensure you're de-registered if you do.

She can't blow the whistle. The bureaucrats will deny, cover and sack her at the same time.

Trust me, most ED docs would've blown the whistle by now if they could. The bureaucrats have ensured that their backsides are well covered there.

Dr Death was only unveiled because of the public. No-one whistle blew because they can't. The have a policy and it must be strictly adhered to or it's out the door for you.
 
noco said:
Mate, I don't have to go to the Townsville Hospital to find out. It's in the Townsville local paper almost daily. People stacked in hallways. You obviously don't know squat yourself. Injured patients sitting in ambulances for up to 4 hours waiting their turn for ER treatment. My guess is you probably live in Victoria where the hospital system is more efficient than NSW or QLD.

We had a good whistle blower in Bundaberg QLD and as far I know she still has her job, so what's the problem?
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It's in the paper so it must be right eh? :rolleyes:

A leaked internal incident report and public outcry was what unveiled Dr Death champ. That nurse was simply fuelling the flame after it had been started.
 
Nick Minchin will not be contesting the next Senate election. He has been one of Abbott's strongest supporters, and helped depose Turnbull. Abbott will miss him.
 
Wi-fi camera without fingerprints can be set somewhere with good battery to run for a week or so and recorded outside the hospital, or smuggled out and recording published.

If reports can be smuggled out of countries with harsh regimes, surely it can be done here in Australia.
 
WaveSurfer said:
Both mate. It's even AMA policy. They will ensure you're de-registered if you do.

She can't blow the whistle. The bureaucrats will deny, cover and sack her at the same time.

Trust me, most ED docs would've blown the whistle by now if they could. The bureaucrats have ensured that their backsides are well covered there.

Dr Death was only unveiled because of the public. No-one whistle blew because they can't. The have a policy and it must be strictly adhered to or it's out the door for you.
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I do agree with your remark before when it comes to these types of issues a lot of people who dont know much sure do know a lot! :rolleyes:

N.T
 
Happy said:
Wi-fi camera without fingerprints can be set somewhere with good battery to run for a week or so and recorded outside the hospital, or smuggled out and recording published.

If reports can be smuggled out of countries with harsh regimes, surely it can be done here in Australia.
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Problem is mate that a lot of the stuff is not visual to the eye. Red tape from the managers upstairs is the cause of a lot of the problems - shutting down beds to save money is one of them. Managers mind you who have no formal medical training, just business grads trying to run the hospital as a profitable commercial entity.

You can't blame the press for reporting the wrong info, they are just spoon feed information in dribs and drabs. Beds in the hallway, oh we assume there's no beds. Yes, yes that's the problem business execs say. Think they are going to tell you what's really going on?

The government hires these people because they know how to pull a business out of the red - THEY CUT COSTS.

At our (the public's) expense.
 
Must I add, that if you're unlucky enough to ever need help from my wife (the most caring, loving person I know). As long as you don't have 20 other critical patients in front of you, you'll receive the best care there is. Yes I have bias :eek:, but she isn't the head of the department for nothing.
 
WaveSurfer said:
Must I add, that if you're unlucky enough to ever need help from my wife (the most caring, loving person I know). As long as you don't have 20 other critical patients in front of you, you'll receive the best care there is. Yes I have bias :eek:, but she isn't the head of the department for nothing.
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Yeah. But what's all this got to do with this thread.:topic Perhaps you should start another thread.
 
WaveSurfer said:
Both mate. It's even AMA policy. They will ensure you're de-registered if you do.

She can't blow the whistle. The bureaucrats will deny, cover and sack her at the same time.

Trust me, most ED docs would've blown the whistle by now if they could. The bureaucrats have ensured that their backsides are well covered there.

Dr Death was only unveiled because of the public. No-one whistle blew because they can't. The have a policy and it must be strictly adhered to or it's out the door for you.
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WaveSurfer said:
It's in the paper so it must be right eh? :rolleyes:

A leaked internal incident report and public outcry was what unveiled Dr Death champ. That nurse was simply fuelling the flame after it had been started.
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Wavesurfer, that's not as I understand it. The Dr Death case received wide publicity here (I'm close to Bundaberg) and what actually first called attention to the situation re Patel was the nurse (can't remember her name now) going to Rob Messenger, the local member. He then raised it in Parliament and all hell broke loose after that.

However, when the enquiry finally was under way, other doctors testified that they had indeed reported their concerns to the next up the line (presumably a bureaucrat) and nothing was done.

The whole Patel situation is one of the reasons why I have much concern about Mr Rudd's proposed new funding arrangements which I gather will be on a 'work performed' basis for each hospital. Surely this is likely to bring about a repeat of the Patel situation where he performed unnecessary surgery (much of which he was not qualified to do) in order to acquire more funding for Bundaberg Hospital.
Likewise, he resisted having patients who were seriously ill transferred to Brisbane for specialist care because if they were removed from Bundaberg their funding went with them.

Perhaps I don't properly understand what Mr Rudd is proposing (how would this be possible when he refuses to release any detail?), but I have a real fear the sort of situation that fostered Patel's appalling behaviour could be repeated.

Calliope said:
Nick Minchin will not be contesting the next Senate election. He has been one of Abbott's strongest supporters, and helped depose Turnbull. Abbott will miss him.
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So will the public, Calliope. It was largely due to Nick Minchin that Malcolm Turnbull was ousted. I've always thought he was under-appreciated and under-utilised in both the Howard and Abbott cabinets.
I'd been rather hoping he would replace Barnaby Joyce in the Finance shadow p/f where he would have had the seniority, experience and political finesse to do an excellent job.
Sad about his son's very serious accident.
 
A debate between Barnaby Joyce and Wayne Swan on finance would be, well, err, um, interesting.
 
drsmith said:
A debate between Barnaby Joyce and Wayne Swan on finance would be, well, err, um, interesting.
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Political suicide for Bananasby i would think....you could just see TA coaching him on Millions, Billions and Trillions. :D
 
So_Cynical said:
Political suicide for Bananasby i would think....you could just see TA coaching him on Millions, Billions and Trillions. :D
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Or maybe Obama could help him after his speech advising insurance premiums would reduce 3000%!!!:eek: When Obama muffs a figure, it is hardly reported on but when BJ muffs a figure he is considered unfit for public office!!

Most members of the Coalition would love to debate Wayne "Kangaroo in the Spotlight" Swan. "Bananaby" vs "Roo Boy". It would certainly make for interesting TV.

I'd like to see where they position Ken Henry so that the audience don't see his arm all the way up Swan's ****. Maybe Ken will be behind the curtain on an earpiece "Wizard of Oz" style.......... "Now repeat after me Wayne...... We've just guided Australia through the greatest financial tsunami since the great depression.....just keep repeating that, over and over, that's good, you're doing great Wayne. For God's sake don't mention the deficit, the insulation package, computers in schools, the broadband rollout, school halls stimulus, rising inflation or interest rate increases. But don't forget to tell them how badly Australia's economy would be if it wasn't for us. That's it - good. Now give 'em a smile Wayne, that's it, you're a bloody legend Wayne"

Duckman
 
Julia said:
Wavesurfer, that's not as I understand it. The Dr Death case received wide publicity here (I'm close to Bundaberg) and what actually first called attention to the situation re Patel was the nurse (can't remember her name now) going to Rob Messenger, the local member. He then raised it in Parliament and all hell broke loose after that.

However, when the enquiry finally was under way, other doctors testified that they had indeed reported their concerns to the next up the line (presumably a bureaucrat) and nothing was done.

The whole Patel situation is one of the reasons why I have much concern about Mr Rudd's proposed new funding arrangements which I gather will be on a 'work performed' basis for each hospital. Surely this is likely to bring about a repeat of the Patel situation where he performed unnecessary surgery (much of which he was not qualified to do) in order to acquire more funding for Bundaberg Hospital.
Likewise, he resisted having patients who were seriously ill transferred to Brisbane for specialist care because if they were removed from Bundaberg their funding went with them.

Perhaps I don't properly understand what Mr Rudd is proposing (how would this be possible when he refuses to release any detail?), but I have a real fear the sort of situation that fostered Patel's appalling behaviour could be repeated.


So will the public, Calliope. It was largely due to Nick Minchin that Malcolm Turnbull was ousted. I've always thought he was under-appreciated and under-utilised in both the Howard and Abbott cabinets.
I'd been rather hoping he would replace Barnaby Joyce in the Finance shadow p/f where he would have had the seniority, experience and political finesse to do an excellent job.
Sad about his son's very serious accident.
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Hey Julia,

That's not quite the full story on Patel. I used this case for my medical law subject and did some extensive research on it. All the research I did contained no "press" articles. It was all via proper reports. Here's a very brief summary of what actually happened.

Dr Death was reported as incompetent within the first few months of starting at bundy hospital in 2003 by both patients and staff. It was ignored until 2004 when he was reviewed by Fitzgerald and was cleared.

In 2005, Hoffman also wrote a series of complaints within the hospital's internal system. She was ignored and even accused of being racist. She then wrote to the District Health Manager (still within legal boundaries) and that was ignored. This was then "leaked" to the local member you speak of. She did not publicly "whistle-blow" like many believe. It is unclear of who actually leaked this and Nuttal mandated a group of nurses over it. Hoffman did the right thing (as any NUM would do) clearing her colleagues of any wrong doing and took the wrap herself.

This leaked report to the local member was also ignored by parliament. It was not until the Courier Mail published the issue which then received massive public outcry. This prompted Nuttal to take action and the commission inquiry was launched.

Considering what Hoffman and her colleagues went through and the avenues the had to take to get it out to the public, it's no wonder other hospital staff don't speak up. Even in such an extreme case as the Dr Death saga.

There are other nurses who are just as "heroic" as Hoffman. Hoffman is obviously a fantastic NUM (as most if not all are) as she put her colleagues before herself taking full responsibility. Full credit to her, she deserves the heroic status. But, so do other nurses whom Hoffman protected.


I agree with you there on Rudd's proposal. But do notice that Abbott said he would fund 3500 beds (notice the lack of new). It's all about the words and how they're used. Poly Crackers are experts at using them to their advantage ;)

"Hey you promised 3500 new beds."

"No I did not promise NEW beds."

Poly Crackers... They're all the same :rolleyes:

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