Tony Abbott for PM

[springhill]

I am starting to think Abbott's in trouble as Rudd builds momentum and Abbott really is starting to sound carping like from the side lines particularity as Abbott wont debate or take any hard questioning..

Rudd actually went on Bolt and came out break even or better.



http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/spe...ds-to-poll-boost/story-fnho52ql-1226686975427

Credit where credit is due.

Rudd has played the politics well.

The Left will never vote for the Right in a month of Sundays.

His hardline stance has attracted some of the Centre, the Centre-Right and those who cannot bring themselves to vote for Abbott.

Any Labor Left that desert will move to the Greens, which he can work with.

Well played, but there is plenty of time left in the race.

I would say Abbott is slightly behind at this point.

52-48 in my humble, and often wrong opinion.

 

[Julia]

We were talking to friends today. They aren't happy with Rudd n don't trust him BUT they don't like Abbott. They don't want to vote for either of them but will probably go fro Rudd because of Abbott.

I listened to him this morning at the car place. And again tonight, followed buy Rudd t& then Obama. Abbott sounds like he's heavily scripted and stops n starts - there's no passion behind his words. Rudd does a better job. Obama is so fluid and fluent in comparison.

Rudd won't win the election, Abbott will lose it. I'm starting to think this more and more.

I can't disagree with any of your observations. But I note that if that's the result, then Australia has fallen for the glib, superficial showman, regardless of capacity to implement any successful policies or balance the budget, over someone who lacks good presentation, but who has led a united team of competent (as against largely untried) members who promote proven policies.

The current Labor Party has some decent people, namely Chris Bowen, Tony Burke, Mark Dreyfuss et al.
But I simply despair if people are being stupid enough to be sucked in by the egocentric, frenetic salesman that is Kevin Rudd. If elected, imo he will wreak more havoc than he did in his previous term, leaving not just a bewildered, hate filled bunch of colleagues, but a country devastated by his failure.

 

[johenmo]

But I note that if that's the result, then Australia has fallen for the glib, superficial showman, regardless of capacity to implement any successful policies or balance the budget, over someone who lacks good presentation, but who has led a united team of competent (as against largely untried) members who promote proven policies.

His smoke n mirrors act is working, and it's only when the public wakes up and see who they are now in bed with that they will regret their decision.

 

[Zedd]

His smoke n mirrors act is working, and it's only when the public wakes up and see who they are now in bed with that they will regret their decision.

Point taken on Rudd. Disagree to an extent, but there's certainly plenty of activity taking place for no benefit other than media/PR.

On Abbott though, how many actually think he's genuine? I feel he's been a giant PR project since Johnny left, but especially since Rudd was ousted. That was when the silent Tony kicked in. Only allowed to repeat 3 word slogans. Never directly answering questions, in an attempt presumably to emulate the great talent of Howard.

There's a chance in my mind that he may be reforming not just his image but his thoughts/policies in much the way Howard did before getting elected, but personally I'm not buying it.

 

[sptrawler]

There's a chance in my mind that he may be reforming not just his image but his thoughts/policies in much the way Howard did before getting elected, but personally I'm not buying it.

No, you would rather buy another term of the goon show, good on you.

That is why the world is such a magic place, people have short memories and are mesmorised by spin.

 

[IFocus]

No, you would rather buy another term of the goon show, good on you.

That is why the world is such a magic place, people have short memories and are mesmorised by spin.

Talking of goons how is Bishop repeating the comments from a private conversation with a another countries leader has to be a 1st I would think.

 

[sptrawler]

Talking of goons how is Bishop repeating the comments from a private conversation with a another countries leader has to be a 1st I would think.

I didn't read that, can you throw a link.

 

[Julia]

On Abbott though, how many actually think he's genuine? I feel he's been a giant PR project since Johnny

Is there any particular reason you feel obliged to refer to John Howard as "Johnny"? It is perhaps one shade of disrespect less than "little johnnie howard", but pejorative nonetheless.

That was when the silent Tony kicked in. Only allowed to repeat 3 word slogans. Never directly answering questions, in an attempt presumably to emulate the great talent of Howard.

How is that emulating John Howard? Mr Howard was a politician of conviction. (Similar to Paul Keating.)
And he had no difficulty in expressing those convictions. Certainly many of us did not agree with all his decisions, viz the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, but clearly he felt it Australia's duty in terms of the alliance with the US.
That's by the way. You might like to explain why you are suggesting that 'never directly answering questions'is reminiscent of John Howard. I would dispute that suggestion absolutely.

There's a chance in my mind that he may be reforming not just his image but his thoughts/policies in much the way Howard did before getting elected, but personally I'm not buying it.

Fine. Vote once again for the show pony, the person who will do anything for a photo op, and who will adapt his 'policies' according to which way the electoral wind blows. Hell of a foundation for a leader of a country.

 

[Zedd]

So many questions in such a small post!

Is there any particular reason you feel obliged to refer to John Howard as "Johnny"? It is perhaps one shade of disrespect less than "little johnnie howard", but pejorative nonetheless.

I suppose I use it in as a form of familiarity, rather than disrespect. I've been referring to Howard as "Johnny" for as long as I can remember. Although I disagreed with some of his policies, I have nothing but respect for him as an individual and his services for the country.

How is that emulating John Howard?

My idea of Howard's rise to power, and keep in mind I was rather young during the 80's & 90's so have built up this image by reading about the past, rather than remembering witnessing it, but during his time in opposition, Howard was hardly the imposing figure that he was during his time in power. I remember clips of a poorly groomed, stuttering politician, who failed to articulate himself at times, and failed to score political points when he tried.

Contrast that to who he was at the height of his prime, and it's undeniable there's a difference. My understanding was this was due to a conscious effort at image, if not substance, reform.

You might like to explain why you are suggesting that 'never directly answering questions'is reminiscent of John Howard. I would dispute that suggestion absolutely.

Again, not said as an insult to Howard. Although I generally distain politicians who fail to answer questions, it was an absolute pleasure to see Howard in question time not just not answering direct questions, but actually diverting them in such a way that made the questioner look silly. After his first term in power, Howard never answered a question he didn't want to. I get the feeling Abbott is trying to develop this skill but for the time being he comes off looking silly rather than the other way round.

Fine. Vote once again for the show pony, the person who will do anything for a photo op, and who will adapt his 'policies' according to which way the electoral wind blows. Hell of a foundation for a leader of a country.

I appreciate the characterisation of Rudd, and still haven't made up my mind. But Abbott has definitely got his work cut out for him during the election campaign if he's to convince me he's any more substantial than Rudd. I fundamentally disagree with Abbott on some issues, and on others I feel he too is following the populist past, rather than sticking to core Liberal values.

 

[Julia]

Thank you, Zedd, for detailed response which allows me now to understand why you would take that view.
(Can't accept the "Johnny" bit, however.)

Mostly when I look back at John Howard, and excepting my absolute disagreement about going to war, what I most remember is his calmness, his capacity to very firmly make a point in complete conviction, without resorting to raising of his voice, or unreasonable language toward his opponents.

He also withstood barbs aplenty and took them in his stride. Such a contrast to the personal nature of politics largely pushed by Ms Gillard who used her gender as an excuse for her unpopularity.

 

[sydboy007]

He also withstood barbs aplenty and took them in his stride. Such a contrast to the personal nature of politics largely pushed by Ms Gillard who used her gender as an excuse for her unpopularity.

Not really defending Gillard - never quite "liked her" - but i think she's the only PM to have sexual questions about her partner raised on national radio, and for the opposition to use the PMs marital status (lack of) / religious beliefs (lack of) / children (lack of) as valid arguments against her. Can you imagine someone asking Howard / Hawke / Keating if maybe his wife was really a Lesbian? I doubt any of them would have taken it with much grace.

IMHO I don't think these issues would have been used if we'd had a male PM in a de-facto relationship without children and who publicly admitted he was an atheist. To be honest, I'd trust an atheist more than a devoutly religious Catholic / Anglican high up in the chain of command of those institutions.

Personally I'd like to see the major parties fight each other over policy, rather than the denigration into mud slinging that's gotten worse over the last few years.

 

[MrBurns]

Personally I'd like to see the major parties fight each other over policy, rather than the denigration into mud slinging that's gotten worse over the last few years.

We've never had a single PM living in a defacto relationship with no kids (deliberate) and atheist.

Might be ok for the general public but people prefer their PM to be more traditional.

Politics now is just nit picking tit for tat. I'm losing interest.

 

[Julia]

Not really defending Gillard - never quite "liked her" - but i think she's the only PM to have sexual questions about her partner raised on national radio, and for the opposition to use the PMs marital status (lack of) / religious beliefs (lack of) / children (lack of) as valid arguments against her. Can you imagine someone asking Howard / Hawke / Keating if maybe his wife was really a Lesbian?

Certainly not and I said that at the time. The person concerned lost his job over it, didn't he?

I doubt any of them would have taken it with much grace.

It was in very bad taste but she didn't help her cause by engaging in conversation with him on the matter.
Should have just terminated the interview and walked out.

Yes, there was some of this stuff, but she shamelessly used her gender to call Tony Abbott a misogynist, something for which there is no evidence, and in this she was supported by her political sisterhood, as well as the feminazis. The shallowness of it all was laid bare when the same sisterhood didn't support her when the chips were down, and instead chose their own political survival under the person they so hated, Kevin Rudd.

And they wonder why we hold them in such contempt

 

[IFocus]

I didn't read that, can you throw a link.

Cannot find the article it was referenced on the Insiders but the ABC or SMH had a bit more detail to it

 

[sptrawler]

I think Rudd is going to throw up a 'ton' of new taxes, in the hope Abbott keeps saying" we will overturn that".

Then Rudd will turn around and say "well where are you going to get your money from"?

Could be a good plan, if Abbott is dumb enough to fall for it.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ion-tax-increase/story-fnii5s41-1226689112110

It will be worth watching Abbotts response to this tax.
If he knocks this one, I reckon he's toast.lol

 

[Tink]

I agree, Julia, they disgust me, and I hope the public tells them what they think on election day, this circus we have endured for 6 years.

While Rudd delays, businesses decay, even his party are telling him to call the election, yet he is too busy travelling around the world asking for help, taking his wife on a holiday in a warzone, we must be a laughing stock having a recycled cardboard cut out for a PM, photos, thats all its about for him.

Nothing has changed, this man is still a self centered arrogent clown -- how long before he throws another wobbly at an air hostess, now that things arent going quite as he hoped?

Call the election, the public are waiting....

 

[sptrawler]

I agree, Julia, they disgust me, and I hope the public tells them what they think on election day, this circus we have endured for 6 years.

While Rudd delays, businesses decay, even his party are telling him to call the election, yet he is too busy travelling around the world asking for help, taking his wife on a holiday in a warzone, we must be a laughing stock having a recycled cardboard cut out for a PM, photos, thats all its about for him.

Nothing has changed, this man is still a self centered arrogent clown -- how long before he throws another wobbly at an air hostess, now that things arent going quite as he hoped?

Call the election, the public are waiting....

If he is bringing in spin doctors from the U.S, I wouldn't think he will be calling an early election. Talking about employment, I heard on the radio Kev has employed his sons as advisors. lol

 

[MrBurns]

If he is bringing in spin doctors from the U.S, I wouldn't think he will be calling an early election. Talking about employment, I heard on the radio Kev has employed his sons as advisors. lol

I heard from a friend in the US that the spin doctors were Obamas and they are very, very dirty players.

 

[sptrawler]

I heard from a friend in the US that the spin doctors were Obamas and they are very, very dirty players.

Well they should feel right at home with Labor. What we've had Labor induced riots, misogyny rants, criminal proceedings.

It will be interesting to see what the U.S guys can add to the mini series.
We must have some pretty poor political advisors, when Julia had to import from the U.K and now Kev imports from the U.S.
Lucky the employ Australians policy, that Labor was pushing two months ago, doesn't apply to them.
Does that count as another failed policy.

Why buy Australian.

 

[Country Lad]

I heard from a friend in the US that the spin doctors were Obamas and they are very, very dirty players.

As I said in another thread:

Don't discount the contribution these guys will have in the campaign. They will concentrate on the social media side to attract the younger generation who are already increasingly going with Rudd.

They will make the social media their strength vs the Coalition's (except for Turnbull) weakness.

Labor winning the social media war may just give them the election.

Cheers
Country Lad