Tony Abbott for PM

[moXJO]

Did u even bother to spend 5 minutes reading the link I posted?

It would be hard not to think Abbott should front up and answer some tough questions. Seems he was always harping on for others to answer the questions, but he never seems to.

Thats like sending you to a bolt article.

I do predict after watching tosspot Rudd that he will implode in a month. He hasnt changed his style or method enough imo. Im seeing enough people begin to cotton on.

 

[Calliope]

Tony and his mates used to love him good ol Petey Slipper.

I mean most of Slipper's alleged (wont do a Tony and convict before the courts do) malfeasance occurred while he was a member of the coalition.

Yeah. But they didn't find out how sleazy he was until your mob accepted him with open arms. That's when he found true love. And he also is a great mate of your new leader Rudd. "Alleged" you say; he put his sleaze in text messages. But of course you see this as normal behavior.


Macquack
You are certainly on the ball . You sharp wit never fails to impress me.

Slipper is not Sydboy's hero, he is your hero Calliope, you voted for him at the last election.

 

[Julia]

So you think when Tony wouldn't advise the names of the donors to the slush fund "Honest Politics" he created to get rid of Pauline Hanson he's the kind of honest no BS politicians you're talking about?

Sydboy, usually I'd give you credit for being more honest than to drag up this issue. There was a full enquiry into this matter and the result was no wrong doing on the part of Mr Abbott.

Besides which, it's absolutely ancient history now. If the public are in large numbers presently finding Mr Rudd the resurgent messiah, it shows they have astonishingly short memories for his previous dysfunctional reign as PM, not to mention the hideously pejorative comments of his then colleagues.
To imagine they're going to focus on some obscure wannabe like Pauline Hanson all these years later is to be dreaming and I know you know better.

No real need to clutch at such nebulous straws: your favoured party looks as though it's well and truly in the ascendancy.

 

[Macquack]

Macquack
You are certainly on the ball . You sharp wit never fails to impress me.

There is nothing witty about it.

You did not vote Labor, you did not vote Green, so if you did not vote for Slipper then you are a fraud and a traitor to the Coalition.

 

[Calliope]

There is nothing witty about it.

You did not vote Labor, you did not vote Green, so if you did not vote for Slipper then you are a fraud and a traitor to the Coalition.

Brilliant reasoning, but :topic

 

[sydboy007]

Sydboy, usually I'd give you credit for being more honest than to drag up this issue. There was a full enquiry into this matter and the result was no wrong doing on the part of Mr Abbott.

Besides which, it's absolutely ancient history now. If the public are in large numbers presently finding Mr Rudd the resurgent messiah, it shows they have astonishingly short memories for his previous dysfunctional reign as PM, not to mention the hideously pejorative comments of his then colleagues.
To imagine they're going to focus on some obscure wannabe like Pauline Hanson all these years later is to be dreaming and I know you know better.

No real need to clutch at such nebulous straws: your favoured party looks as though it's well and truly in the ascendancy.

TBH the major parties haven't received my primary vote in near a decade.

Rudd the messiah is like Calling Tony the Messiah. Neither of them have much class, 1 is a wannabe raconteur the other would fit in nicely at Blackwater.

As for the public being so forgiving of Rudd, the same could be said for Tony, especially on this forum. He's flip flopped on most issues, and seems to bend to the prevailing wind. Besides cutting the public sector payroll his MAJOR policies include a paid parental leave program more expensive to the companies it's levied on than the carbon tax (remember that it's cost was going to be a wrecking ball to the economy so what does that say about his policy??), a "direct action" climate policy that pretty much EVERY economic analyst out there says wont achieve much and will cost more than the $10B currently budgeted, a tow the boats back policy that definitely wont stop ALL the boats, because this is 100% or fail Tony.

Economically what does Tony stand for? How does he plan to increase the size of the pie so everyone wins? I'm interested to see if Rudd can pull off some sort of Labor Accord with decent private sector input. The 80s Accord helped give us Super and moderate wage / inflation growth. I just don't see Tony being able to do that kind of negotiation. He feels so dubya either with me or against me, no negotiations. Look at his pettiness with Gonski. Part of the coalition says if the majority of states sign up they will honour it, then Tony jumps in and says it's 100% or nothing.

I know most on this forum loath anything Labor and union, but I feel the love for Tony is more akin to out of the frying pan into the fire. For a year there's been demands on Gillard to explain so much, yet Tony hasn't had the same media scrutiny. I dare say he'd have cracked up long ago if there had been. He seems incapable of explaining anything particularly complex. I know he's not stupid, but he seems to lack the skills required of a political leader that can explain complex ideas to the public and get the support required to make the hard choices. Love them or hate them Hawke and Keating were able to do that.

My great hope is now that Rudd has made things a more even contest, both sides with have to up their game.

I play a bit of devils advocate on this forum in the hopes of stopping it being to one sided. The worst thing we can do is to consume media that reinforces our beliefs and doesn't challenge them.

 

[drsmith]

TBH the major parties haven't received my primary vote in near a decade.

If you don't mind being asked, whom or which party does receive your primary vote ?

I play a bit of devils advocate on this forum in the hopes of stopping it being to one sided.

That's sometimes quiet obvious, but with your intellect I'm sure you realise that.

 

[sails]

If you don't mind being asked, who or which party does receive your primary vote ?

One that gives its preferences to alp? ...

No matter how we vote, we usually end up giving that vote to one of the two major parties via preferences

 

[qldfrog]

One that gives its preferences to alp? ...

No matter how we vote, we usually end up giving that vote to one of the two major parties via preferences

sails,
you can in some cases vote green and report to coalition:
I do hope that people here are at least able to check more than one box
in any case yes you end up voting for either of the finalists but you can choose which one

 

[sails]

sails,
you can in some cases vote green and report to coalition:
I do hope that people here are at least able to check more than one box
in any case yes you end up voting for either of the finalists but you can choose which one

That's exactly what I was saying...

I rarely follow a voting sheet and put preferences in the order I think are best. I have voted 1 for minor parties knowing that the major party of choice will still benefit.

 

[drsmith]

I can't imagine young Syd preferencing the Coalition.

He is of course free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Julia]

As for the public being so forgiving of Rudd, the same could be said for Tony, especially on this forum. He's flip flopped on most issues, and seems to bend to the prevailing wind. Besides cutting the public sector payroll

Are you content with the present size of the public service? Don't believe it needs to be trimmed back somewhat given its massive expansion in recent years?

Economically what does Tony stand for? How does he plan to increase the size of the pie so everyone wins?

You're right to raise this. Unless I've missed it, he hasn't enunciated any clear policy here, other than to suggest red tape etc on business needs to be reduced in an effort to increase productivity. Like lots of Rudd's statements, that's OK, but really says nothing about how any gains will be achieved.

I'm interested to see if Rudd can pull off some sort of Labor Accord with decent private sector input. The 80s Accord helped give us Super and moderate wage / inflation growth. I just don't see Tony being able to do that kind of negotiation. He feels so dubya either with me or against me, no negotiations. Look at his pettiness with Gonski. Part of the coalition says if the majority of states sign up they will honour it, then Tony jumps in and says it's 100% or nothing.

Agree that he seems to have minimal capacity for negotiation. I watched Bill Shorten being interviewed on the Qld 7.30 program this evening, and he is absolutely a master at the language of negotiation and compromise.
This trait is what is gradually swinging all the States and territories the Federal government's way on the Schools policy.

For a year there's been demands on Gillard to explain so much, yet Tony hasn't had the same media scrutiny.

What? How about all the ridiculous inquisition about what is likely an apocryphal story of him punching a wall above some girl's head in his university days? That went on with vicious attacks from the media for weeks!
And media attention, just for a chance, might be well directed to some of Mr Abbott's community fundraising endeavours, like cycling long distances to aid a charity etc. How many other MPs can you name who contribute so much of their time to this sort of effort?

And what about all the endlessly repeated accusations that he will legislate to stop abortion, reduce availability of contraception etc? It's all entirely without foundation, but that doesn't stop the vicious attacks continuing.

I dare say he'd have cracked up long ago if there had been.

It's remarks like this that let your argument down, syd. Just no objectivity being displayed here.
The fact that he has not cracked up, indeed has with some grace ignored some of the most vicious barbs, is imo a testament to his basic character. Such a contrast to the utterly confected Gillard misogyny rant!

He seems incapable of explaining anything particularly complex. I know he's not stupid, but he seems to lack the skills required of a political leader that can explain complex ideas to the public and get the support required to make the hard choices. Love them or hate them Hawke and Keating were able to do that.

Agree. However, we are not living in the times of Hawke and Keating. We are living with Abbott and Rudd.
Rudd is equally unable to convey policy clearly, but for the opposite reason to that afflicting mr Abbott.
Mr Rudd is so verbose and fond of the sound of his own pompous tones that the message is subjugated to his egocentricity.

I play a bit of devils advocate on this forum in the hopes of stopping it being to one sided.

I'm not convinced of that. Cannot in a hundred years conceive of you voting Liberal, National or any party where preferences will flow to them. That's your right, of course.

The worst thing we can do is to consume media that reinforces our beliefs and doesn't challenge them.

I think most of us, at least here, are capable of forming our own opinions without falling back on media hype, but your point is well made.

 

[springhill]

You're right to raise this. Unless I've missed it, he hasn't enunciated any clear policy here, other than to suggest red tape etc on business needs to be reduced in an effort to increase productivity. Like lots of Rudd's statements, that's OK, but really says nothing about how any gains will be achieved.

Here is the Coalition’s Policy to Boost Productivity and Reduce Regulation, for those interested.

http://www.liberal.org.au/sites/def... Boost Productivity and Reduce Regulation.pdf

 

[Julia]

Thanks for that, Springhill. 30 pages which I've briefly glanced through, much of which is repetitive and essentially can be summed up in "removal of red and green tape" and 'reduction of regulation".

I don't think too many voters are going to look up the Coalition's website. Most of us will passively wait to be told. Perhaps Mr Abbott needs to start booking the Press Club himself, make a few speeches to get his message across in more detail.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Thanks for that, Springhill. 30 pages which I've briefly glanced through, much of which is repetitive and essentially can be summed up in "removal of red and green tape" and 'reduction of regulation".

I don't think too many voters are going to look up the Coalition's website. Most of us will passively wait to be told. Perhaps Mr Abbott needs to start booking the Press Club himself, make a few speeches to get his message across in more detail.

A week is a very long time in politics.

Abbott is performing well against a perfect storm of psychopathic frenetic madness by Rudd as is the latter's usual modus operandi.

Abbott will force Rudd in to either

1. Recalling parliament and going late.
2. Calling an early election or confirming Sept 14th.

Then the contest will begin.

A compliant media are assisting Rudd as he is good copy.

The cards which will flush him out of office will be the inevitable leaks from his ALP enemies ( of which there are many ) and an assertive parliamentary or election campaign from Abbott.

I can remember a similar sentiment of fear in the LNP when Newman was being slandered by the ALP three months prior to the rout of the Queensland ALP.

Remember TA got rid of KR first time round, and Rudd can't help himself from behaving like a complete tool now that he is PM again.

gg

 

[sptrawler]

A week is a very long time in politics.

Abbott is performing well against a perfect storm of psychopathic frenetic madness by Rudd as is the latter's usual modus operandi.

Abbott will force Rudd in to either

1. Recalling parliament and going late.
2. Calling an early election or confirming Sept 14th.

Then the contest will begin.

A compliant media are assisting Rudd as he is good copy.

The cards which will flush him out of office will be the inevitable leaks from his ALP enemies ( of which there are many ) and an assertive parliamentary or election campaign from Abbott.

I can remember a similar sentiment of fear in the LNP when Newman was being slandered by the ALP three months prior to the rout of the Queensland ALP.

Remember TA got rid of KR first time round, and Rudd can't help himself from behaving like a complete tool now that he is PM again.

gg

+1 gg

Everyone seems to be enamoured, with Kev telling them how wonderfull he is.

Then IMO, there's the majority who think he is just a complete dick.lol
It is a shame Swan isn't standing there alongside him, I used to allways get a chucle when they were photographed together.

My guess in 6 months time, Shorten leader of the opposition, Bowen deputy leader and wild card Wong deputy leader( payback)

 

[Calliope]

Remember TA got rid of KR first time round, and Rudd can't help himself from behaving like a complete tool now that he is PM again.

gg

Complete tool Spot on gg.

Tool
A person, typically male, who says or does things that cause you to give them a 'what-are-you-even-doing-here' look. The 'what-are-you-even-doing-here' look is classified by a glare in the tool's direction and is usually accompanied by muttering of how big of a tool they are. The tool is usually someone who is unwelcome but no one has the balls to tell them to get lost. The tool is always making comments that are out-of-place, out-of-line or just plain stupid. The tool is always trying too hard to fit in, and because of this, never will. However, the tool is useful because you can use them for things; money, rides, ect.

 

[explod]

Poor ole Tony seems to have faded into the wilderness.

In fact the attention is now on the Ashes series as Rudd in peoples mind is home and hosed.

So it's time to close this thead down.

ALP 55%, Coalition 45%

 

[Julia]

My guess in 6 months time, Shorten leader of the opposition, Bowen deputy leader and wild card Wong deputy leader( payback)

I'd much rather see Bowen as Leader, Shorten as Deputy, and keep Tony Burke in Immigration.
These three are Labor's best imo.

 

[sydboy007]

Are you content with the present size of the public service? Don't believe it needs to be trimmed back somewhat given its massive expansion in recent years?

There's a tad under 11000 more public servants employed since The ALP have been in office.

There was 21.18M australians in 2007 and currently 23.112M. So is it not reasonable to expect that a roughly 10% increase in population will also see an increase in public servants?

Also, last year saw around 2500 less pubic servants employed the first time in 10 YEARS (which includes 5 years with Howard) that public service employment has fallen, so it seems the ALP have already started to reduce numbers.

I'm not convinced of that. Cannot in a hundred years conceive of you voting Liberal, National or any party where preferences will flow to them. That's your right, of course.

I'll admit I've never voted for the coalition at the federal level, but at state and local I have. Not sure if that counts by ASF standards though??