nulla nulla
Positive Expectancy
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What happens in Tassie ............ stays in Tassie
"Always look on the bright side of life..." Whistle Whistle Whistle.
Tony Abbott for PM
- Thread starter Garpal Gumnut
- Start date
"Always look on the bright side of life..." Whistle Whistle Whistle.
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While the Church permits belief in either special creation or developmental creation on certain questions, it in no circumstances permits belief in atheistic evolution.
And that pretty much nails it right there.
Well one would hardly expect them to believe in atheistic evolution if they believe that God is behind it all. Developmental creation is acceptable to them which they also term theistic evolution.
This is from that link....
The Church does not have an official position on whether the stars, nebulae, and planets we see today were created at that time or whether they developed over time (for example, in the aftermath of the Big Bang that modern cosmologists discuss). However, the Church would maintain that, if the stars and planets did develop over time, this still ultimately must be attributed to God and his plan, for Scripture records: "By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, and all their host [stars, nebulae, planets] by the breath of his mouth" (Ps. 33:6).
Concerning biological evolution, the Church does not have an official position on whether various life forms developed over the course of time. However, it says that, if they did develop, then they did so under the impetus and guidance of God, and their ultimate creation must be ascribed to him.
Concerning human evolution, the Church has a more definite teaching. It allows for the possibility that man’s body developed from previous biological forms, under God’s guidance, but it insists on the special creation of his soul. Pope Pius XII declared that "the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter””[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God" (Pius XII, Humani Generis 36). So whether the human body was specially created or developed, we are required to hold as a matter of Catholic faith that the human soul is specially created; it did not evolve, and it is not inherited from our parents, as our bodies are.
I'm not trying to defend their position, but just responding to the suggestion that they only accept genesis.
Wysiwyg
Everyone wants money
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Pleasant to read a religion has dropped the 'creation' bindings. As for the soul issue, well if soul is substituted for 'survival characteristics of living organisms' then that is understandable. I think these issues are not as complicated or mysterious as the teachings have us believe.
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Tony Abbott for PM is a joke, sorry but he is just unelectable, even for the usual swing voters. Seriously what a joke.
Julia
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With apologies for perpetuating this thread going off topic, I'm no expert on 'soul' but I'd have thought it in no equates 'survival characteristics of living organisms', the latter being presumably a physiological and psychological function, compared to 'soul' as being spiritual.
Well, the polls would disagree with you to some extent. Did you consider that Malcolm Turnbull was similarly unelectable?
Mr Abbott is scoring much better in the polls than did Mr Turnbull.
Don't know why you can't simply say that you personally could never vote for Mr Abbott, and even better, list the reasons why.
Pretty silly to generalise your own views into suggesting the majority of the population shares them.
Wysiwyg
Everyone wants money
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If you believe in 'spiritual' then it is true for you Julia.
So_Cynical
The Contrarian Averager
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On the contrary Julia the polls clearly indicate that TA is as elect-able as Turnbull was leading a party that didn't want to be lead to election success...or at the least taken seriously.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/19/2795398.htm
57 plays 25 is a clear no contest....Tony Abbott, Bananas Joyce and the rest of the looney coalition right couldn't win an election in a lunatic asylum...if they were the NSW opposition they would struggle...lol
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Absolutley fair point! I could never vote for Abott personally. I find his whole facade of the good christian politician a complete sham (not to mention i disagree with basically all of his policy). Policy and polls aside i believe (although i would not have voted for him either) that Turnbull was much more electable and a much stronger candidate for leader. This even with Turnbull's arrogance. Sadly i think Australian voters (just my personal opinion, anyone is free to disagree) are more or less apathetic and only take half an interest a lot of the times, which works well with kinds of fear campaigns the liberal party run (whatever their real intentions).
Julia
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Where in that link does it say that Turnbull's poll results were equivalent to Abbott's?
This quote is from your ABC reference.
And I haven't commented on Mr Abbott's capacity to win an election, simply that he is apparently doing a better job than did Mr Turnbull.
And further, unlike you, I'm not irrevocably aligned with any Party, just trying to have a bit of objectivity here.
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By "fear campaigns" do you mean like the portrayal of Abbott as a Catholic missionary looking for lost souls?
This was written by political correspondent Dennis Shanahan in the Weekend Australian.
"There is clearly a co-ordinated government effort to portray Abbott as a preaching moralist wanting to force his religious and moral values on to the public, a man who wants to suppress women and who is a climate change denier."
"Abbott is instilling more fear in government hearts than is apparent in the published polling"
Duckman
Julia
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Newspoll out today has the Coalition ahead of Labor in the primary vote for the first time 41 to 40.
Should aid Mr Abbott's confidence in announcing his climate change policy today.
http://www.newspoll.com.au/image_uploads/100106 Federal Voting Intention & Leaders Ratings.pdf
Should aid Mr Abbott's confidence in announcing his climate change policy today.
http://www.newspoll.com.au/image_uploads/100106 Federal Voting Intention & Leaders Ratings.pdf
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Hmmmm...... Rudd and his advisers will be looking very closely at current developments.
At least when Howard was in trouble in his first term it was over the GST - an issue proven to be worth fighting for. Rudd is putting his big lead at risk over the ETS "great big mega-tax" - a piece of legislation, that most people don't understand, don't really want and aren't confident if will even work!
With hindsight Turnbull was the best thing to happen to the Coalition. He walked up the aisle with Rudd in his ETS wedding dress, took the vows, and was doing his best interpretation of a virgin bride ready for the taking. Yet when Rudd returned from the bathroom, to his horror, his virgin bride has turned into his worst nightmare.
Now Rudd is left to explain to everyone why the wedding has been called off. The guests are looking at the groom wondering who's fault it was, and saying that the wedding was perhaps a foolish idea in the first place.
The bride's side didn't really want an ETS marriage with Rudd and it seems even the grooms family now have doubts!!
Duckman
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You gotta love the political 'soundbyte' phraseology going on here.
Someones future desire is the UN Sec-Gen Job.
The other to take Australia back to the morally-robust time of the 50's.
The Piety Climber vs. The Piety Seeker while the merchant banker waits in the wings.
Oh so difficult to choose
http://www.theage.com.au/environment/climate-change/staking-a-climate-claim-20100202-nb4x.html
By (that old battleaxe) Michelle Grattan and Adam Morton
TONY Abbott has based his climate credentials on a $1 billion annual fund that would give farmers and industry incentives to cut emissions, along with a large-scale tree planting in Australian cities and a boost for solar energy.
The proposal - an alternative to the government's emissions trading scheme - was slammed by Prime Minister Kevin Rudd as ''nothing more than a climate con job'', damned as weak by environmentalists and received a cautious response from business groups.
Con job gee and what about ordinary aussies on lower incomes. Just keep those leafy green affluent inner-city suburbs in mind. They may swing!
Someones future desire is the UN Sec-Gen Job.
The other to take Australia back to the morally-robust time of the 50's.
The Piety Climber vs. The Piety Seeker while the merchant banker waits in the wings.
Oh so difficult to choose
http://www.theage.com.au/environment/climate-change/staking-a-climate-claim-20100202-nb4x.html
By (that old battleaxe) Michelle Grattan and Adam Morton
TONY Abbott has based his climate credentials on a $1 billion annual fund that would give farmers and industry incentives to cut emissions, along with a large-scale tree planting in Australian cities and a boost for solar energy.
The proposal - an alternative to the government's emissions trading scheme - was slammed by Prime Minister Kevin Rudd as ''nothing more than a climate con job'', damned as weak by environmentalists and received a cautious response from business groups.
Con job gee and what about ordinary aussies on lower incomes. Just keep those leafy green affluent inner-city suburbs in mind. They may swing!
nulla nulla
Positive Expectancy
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With respect Duckman, the point you quote from Julia is not the one I agree with. It would appear you are manipulating my post to indicate support for your super hero Tony Abbot.
Julia
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I can't help wondering who is going to water the millions of trees until they become established? Having watched the local Council enthusiastically plant trees around here, and then seen them wither from lack of follow up attention, I'm a bit dubious about this. Like the concept, however.
According to today's "Australian" business groups 'welcomed Mr Abbott's plan'.
On the 7.30 Report last night, Mr Abbott was less than confident in discussing his plan. Obviously he has had to come up with something but he doesn't give the impression of really believing in any need to do anything, simply responding to the political need to offer an alternative to the Rudd ETS which is dead in the water anyway.
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I thought the same thing Julia, who is going to water these trees, and I agree that Abbott has just come up with something for sake of coming up with something, to please the public.
Trees?? I had to laugh
Noco, of course they are united now, no changes in there. Its the Howard Crew, will be no difference of opinion.
Trees?? I had to laugh
Noco, of course they are united now, no changes in there. Its the Howard Crew, will be no difference of opinion.
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I apologise Nulla Nulla - it was tongue in cheek. Of course I knew it wasn't what you agreed with.
Like we all do, I embelished and overplayed somewhat. Similar to suggesting that Abbott is someone's Super Hero - when previous posts say nothing of the sort.
I'll state again - he has done a great job turning the tide from Turnbull and Nelson. And based partly on Rudd's on doing and also Abbott's smart strategic plays, the Coalition is back in the game. But he is far from the Messiah or Superman......just yet!!
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Hi Julia
According to the 7:30 report Hawke oversaw the planting of 10 times that many trees back in 1988 - so there must be a way to do it. Rudd promised to fix the Murray and waterways at the last election and as he is a "man of action" and not just a "man of word" we should have the water.
I agree with your appraisal of Abbott Julia - his performance on the 7:30 Report wasn't convincing. Polish isn't his strong suit. His big problem is that his strength is also his biggest weakness. He is a straight down the line, honest, conviction politician - he tells it how it is and how he sees it.
There were so many questions that could have been downplayed, avoided or deflected by spin last night - but that clearly isn't Abbott. What you see is what you get.
It is going to be a big issue for the Coalition media advisers and campaign managers this election. It is very important that Abbott sells his policies clearly and honestly. I think a lot of people may well vote for Abbott, without liking him, but it will have to be clearly based on his policies. He will never out-polish, out-slick or out-spin Rudd.
It may well come down to whether the voting public want:
A prime minister that looks good, sounds good but are starting to doubt on ability to deliver and over promising: or
A prime minister that is raw, unpolished but people are prepared to take on trust
In my opinion growing problem for Rudd is the over promising rhetoric he has used in the past. He regularly bites off more than he can handle. The question remains - are the Australian public prepared to give him some slack and take his past words on face value (and still see him as the genuine article), or are they fast becoming sceptical and disbelieving (and seeing him as a masterful spin merchant doing and saying whatever is necessary to stay in power).
Duckman
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Hi Tink
I might be running the risk of going from major offender to police officer on this issue but........ Can you please tell me how you can refer to Julia's email and then say "I agree that Abbott has just come up with something for the sake of coming up with something, to please the public." ?
Who are you agreeing with? Julia just questioned the logisitcs of it - not the idea. She actually said "Like the concept, however."!!!
Are you serious or taking the .....?
Duckman
(Apologies to Nulla Nulla - I've seen the error in my ways.
As Tony Abbott might say......."I,I,I,I, I have never said, er, um, that I, have been, um, the perfect, um, er, role model"
)