That's true. However, I don't know why Mr Turnbull doesn't just join the Labor Party and be done with it.
Im with you julia, Turnbull is not doing the Libs any favours at all. If I were him I`d be changing my name to Turncoat!
Tony Abbott for PM
- Thread starter Garpal Gumnut
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Im with you julia, Turnbull is not doing the Libs any favours at all. If I were him I`d be changing my name to Turncoat!
Garpal Gumnut
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A contact tells me that Abbott has a mole close to Rudd, who is drip feeding him ammunition for the election campaign.
Could it be Turnbull.
Those who turn, can turn again.
gg
Could it be Turnbull.
Those who turn, can turn again.
gg
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I don't think Turnbull is hurting them that much actually. True Turnbull fans are unlikely to be huge supporters of Abbott anyway.
The only thing Turnbull has left is his (non-so-small) pride. His pride will not enable him to fall into line with the Party. This is the same pride, petulance and arrogance that got him knocked off as leader in the first place. He doesn't "play politics" very well. A true reflection of his failure, in his eyes, would be to back down from supporting an ETS. He has nothing to lose and nothing to save, he is "going down with the ship". The Malcolm was always putting himself ahead of the party before, so why should he start putting the Party first now!!
In my opinion, Abbott should use it to his advantage and utterly humilate him. Abbott could come out and say something like:
Given Malcolm Turnbull's strident belief in, and support of Mr Rudd's ETS, I expect and encourage Malcolm to cross the floor. Given his previous rhetoric, some might say it will even reflect poorly on Mr Turnbull and the Liberal Party if he doesn't. There is no denying that Mr Turnbull's and Kevin Rudd's policy viewpoints regarding Climate Change and an ETS were almost identical. Unfortunately, for Malcolm, Copenhagen has changed the way Australia needs to tackle polution and climate change. The Coalition has listened, learnt and made the necessary policy amendment. Kevin Rudd, the Labour Party and Malcolm Turnbull haven't.
Highlight and put the spotlight on Turnbulls failure and in doing so highlighting the Coalition's decision to "move on". Turnbull and his policy beliefs are dead.
There is no coming back for Turnbull (at least in the Liberal Party), although Labour might be running the ruler over him
. Duckman
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Tony Abbott won the leadership spill over Malcolm Turnbull by only one vote. He's better to just sit back and watch Malcolm finish hanging himself with his own rope over the ETS.
Julia
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Gee whiz, Duckman, Mr Abbott should hire you as his personal adviser and speech writer.I don't think Turnbull is hurting them that much actually. True Turnbull fans are unlikely to be huge supporters of Abbott anyway.
The only thing Turnbull has left is his (non-so-small) pride. His pride will not enable him to fall into line with the Party. This is the same pride, petulance and arrogance that got him knocked off as leader in the first place. He doesn't "play politics" very well. A true reflection of his failure, in his eyes, would be to back down from supporting an ETS. He has nothing to lose and nothing to save, he is "going down with the ship". The Malcolm was always putting himself ahead of the party before, so why should he start putting the Party first now!!
In my opinion, Abbott should use it to his advantage and utterly humilate him. Abbott could come out and say something like:
Given Malcolm Turnbull's strident belief in, and support of Mr Rudd's ETS, I expect and encourage Malcolm to cross the floor. Given his previous rhetoric, some might say it will even reflect poorly on Mr Turnbull and the Liberal Party if he doesn't. There is no denying that Mr Turnbull's and Kevin Rudd's policy viewpoints regarding Climate Change and an ETS were almost identical. Unfortunately, for Malcolm, Copenhagen has changed the way Australia needs to tackle polution and climate change. The Coalition has listened, learnt and made the necessary policy amendment. Kevin Rudd, the Labour Party and Malcolm Turnbull haven't.
Highlight and put the spotlight on Turnbulls failure and in doing so highlighting the Coalition's decision to "move on". Turnbull and his policy beliefs are dead.
There is no coming back for Turnbull (at least in the Liberal Party), although Labour might be running the ruler over him
Duckman
Agree with you completely.
drsmith: Yes Mr Abbott did only win by one vote but since then the Coalition seem to have fallen in behind him, finally recognising the truth of the "disunity is death" maxim.
Imo Barnaby Joyce is their greatest liability at present: he's simply not up to the Shadow Finance p/f.
Garpal Gumnut
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Gee whiz, Duckman, Mr Abbott should hire you as his personal adviser and speech writer.
Agree with you completely.
drsmith: Yes Mr Abbott did only win by one vote but since then the Coalition seem to have fallen in behind him, finally recognising the truth of the "disunity is death" maxim.
Imo Barnaby Joyce is their greatest liability at present: he's simply not up to the Shadow Finance p/f.
I must disagree about Joyce, he is a bit like Joh, he is down to earth and people don't remember his fubar statements. They like his style.
I reckon Rudd is the biggest liability to any party at present, when the electorate turn against him it will make Howard's departure seem like a fond farewell.
Abbott will exploit this for all its worth. He is the best politician in the house. He will be our next PM.
gg
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gg does that mean BJ is trying to beat joh as the most prolific user of the supreme courts for gag order in australian history? no one could say a bad thing about his practices ever.. lol took forever for the slow state to wake up.. the fitzgerald inquiry soon dealt with the rot there..
took a long time to get rid of the corrupt joh regime, and his autocratic style was just as damaging in victoria when repeated by kennett..
i think bj is making a name for himself, but looks foolish and is totally out of his league.
viewing an antagonist and disruptor as a hero of the common folk and making a hero of a out of step abbott is a huge laugh. labor is just brimming with delight atm.. massive body blow for the deeply wounded libs coming up if they have the guts to try and run an early poll
abbott is the first term token loser.. we all have to wait for the libs to field a true candidate.. pity any election any time soon will be such a walkover.
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I can't wait for the Barnaby for PM campaign.
Will the T-shirts have a ghostly image of Joh on the back ?
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Choosing Joyce for finance was Abbott's biggest mistake. It has rebounded on him. Since Joyce was elected to the Senate the media has built this fool up to the point where he believes he has some sort of charisma.
Abbott will have no choice but to turf him out of this job, and he will then resume his normal divisive behaviour as a loose cannon.
With Joyce and that buffoon Hockey as spokesmen on the economy the Coalition has yielded the normal coalition front running on economic matters.
Julia
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I agree completely. For every couple of points Abbott manages to advance the Coalition's cause, Joyce (and Hockey to a lesser extent) set them back twice as much. Joyce is a complete joke, utterly incompetent, and irresponsible in much of what he's saying, e.g. today saying Australia may not be able to pay off the debt. Just makes him look really stupid, considering Australia's superior position to most of the rest of the world.
Abbott should send Mr Joyce to his back bench and tell him to shut up.
So_Cynical
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Problem is Abbott's the coalition leader because of Bananas and his looney right mates.
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Gee whiz, Duckman, Mr Abbott should hire you as his personal adviser and speech writer.
Agree with you completely.
drsmith: Yes Mr Abbott did only win by one vote but since then the Coalition seem to have fallen in behind him, finally recognising the truth of the "disunity is death" maxim.
Imo Barnaby Joyce is their greatest liability at present: he's simply not up to the Shadow Finance p/f.
LOL - thanks Julia.
I just think that Abbott should get on the front foot on some of these issues.As for Joyce - a week is a long time in politics. It was barely three months ago when a disorganised Coalition party room, rolled the dice and ended up with Abbott by a single vote. Now look at them - a real swagger in their step. I agree that, to this point, the Joyce experiment has been unhelpful to say the least. Abbott is making inroads but Barnaby is attracting the headlines for all the wrong reasons. Having said that - I'm prepared to cut him some slack.
I agree with GG - regional and rural Australian's love BJ. They see him as a maverick gunslinger. He just needs to know when to keep the gun in the holster. I totally agree with Abbott's comments when he says, "as a member of a shadow ministry Barnaby will be a key participant in visiting and promoting the Coalition message in marginal seats. I bet there are Labour members terrified of going head to head with Barnaby Joyce in local town halls in the lead up to an election". Totally agree - he is a force to be reckoned with.
The problem for Abbott is that there are also Coalition members that are terrified of Barnaby!!
Barnaby is also a "confidence player". In cricket terms he is "playing and missing" on a "green top". He just needs to spend a little "time in the middle, play positive shots with confidence, and play each ball on its merits". The history books don't mention how many times a player was dropped on 0, if they go on to make a century.
The big question will be - is he going to do more damage to the Coalition in the urban marginals, than he will do good for them in the rural and regional marginals. My hunch is that when all is weighed up - he'll be a vote puller overall.
The Coalition is really starting to pick up some momentum - dropping Barnaby and reshuffling at this point would be a disaster. It would smack of poor judgement, inexperience, panic and would justify every negative soundbite Labour has thrown up regarding the Coalition "leadership team" in the past 48 hours. Barnaby needs to bunker down, calm down, sort himself out, try and take a few quick singles to rotate the strike and wait for the right balls to hit.
One last point - Joyce has the one thing that most politicans would love to have - TRUST. Regional Australians believe in him and more importantly believe he is working for their best interests. Voters will forgive stuff-ups and foot in mouth disease if they genuinely believe in someone.
Duckman
Agree, labor is having a hard time of making anything stick atm. Their current agenda is to push the 'Abbott's backward 50's Mentality', and try to capitalize on turning women voters off him every time he makes a gaff. Libs seemed a lot more settled. Abbott has managed to stay in the headlines and brush of a lot of the negatives without to much criticism sticking for to long. It's almost as if his tactic is to be in the headlines consistently.
But lately labor seems a little shaken when the media is even slightly critical of them (Disgusting that a bunch of kids are the only ones in this country to ask the tough questions, Wake up media) Kev on Q&A certainly revealed that his spin and BS is not going unnoticed.
Between Jobs for mates, unions shutting whole towns down and Business getting worried that Fair Work Australia is utterly utterly useless, ETS, School Funding promises being cut back and Rudd’s general BS, there is plenty of ammo for the libs in the next few weeks.
Julia
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Well, Duckman, I'm a regional voter and I do not believe in Mr Joyce. And I think you're deluding yourself if you think people will be forgiving across the board when it comes to financial understanding.
Remarks such as Australia not being able to meet debt obligations are simply stupid. Presumably he made such a comment from a political point of view, i.e. suggesting the government is over-spending, but he needs to consider the ramifications of such a remark before shooting off at the mouth in the way he does.
When I think of the possibility of Joe Hockey and Barnaby Joyce being in charge of Australia's economic fortunes, I shudder, especially when Mr Abbott would have to admit that economic matters are not really his forte either.
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Penny Wong can't get Tony Abbott off her mind.
Of 16 media releases in January, 8 are about him and a policy he had not at that point released.
http://www.climatechange.gov.au/en/minister/wong/2010/media-releases.aspx
Of 16 media releases in January, 8 are about him and a policy he had not at that point released.
http://www.climatechange.gov.au/en/minister/wong/2010/media-releases.aspx
nulla nulla
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yep, I can just see Tony in his budgie smugglers , iron in hand, extolling the virtues of Australian women keeping their virginity until they marry Mr Right and then commit themselves to a lifetime of drudgery chained to an ironing board. That sounds like a real vote winner.
Garpal Gumnut
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As Pete Seeger said, almost verbatim from the book of Ecclesiastes, in his famous song, Turn, Turn, Turn, later recorded by The Byrds and The Seekers
Perhaps she can't get him off her mind.
gg
Julia, I doubt whether Swan and Tanner have the initiative on finance for after all they are guided by what Treasuary advises them.
I just viewed the performance of Barnaby Joyce in the Senate estimates enquiry. If any ASF viewers happened to view his questioning of David Parker (Treasury bureaucrat) and Senator Sherry, many would now have a new reverential opinion of BJ. He was outstanding and with Senator Cameron (Lab) interjecting on more than one occassion in trying to divert attention.
IMHO Barnaby had those two tied up in knots in trying to get straight anwsers pertaining to leaked information from the Henry Tax review. They were very nervous and appeared to be trying to conceal the truth. Their answers consisted of such sayings as "pure speculation, purely hypothetical, maybe, could be".
I would not write BJ off just yet, although Tony Abbott may just have to fine tune him a little.
The Senate resumes live again at 10pm tonight.
Julia
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Noco, I agree that BJ is good in the sort of situation you describe.
What I'm having difficulty with is his role of Finance Minister where he seems out of his depth. Economic credibility has always been the Coalition's strong point, but he's trashing that credibility very fast.
The person I would like to see come back is Mal Brough. He seemed to be clear thinking, intelligent, straightforward and decisive. He pressed ahead with the Northern Territory intervention in the face of all the usual left criticisms.
What I'm having difficulty with is his role of Finance Minister where he seems out of his depth. Economic credibility has always been the Coalition's strong point, but he's trashing that credibility very fast.
The person I would like to see come back is Mal Brough. He seemed to be clear thinking, intelligent, straightforward and decisive. He pressed ahead with the Northern Territory intervention in the face of all the usual left criticisms.