THR - Thor Energy

[Sodapop]

I get where you're coming from but these guys wouldn't be fit to flailing about in a padded cell if they did what you allege - every man and his dog knows what the implications of doing what is the worst case scenario here - BTV has some 6m in cash - i just can't fathom it - that's my point... besides we know how dodgy the Chinese way of doing business is... just ask the Japanese companaies that have pulled their hi-tech manufacturning operations out of the mainland due to coroprate espionage... this may be far deeper than we can imagine...

 

[hongwong]

I get where you're coming from but these guys wouldn't be fit to flailing about in a padded cell if they did what you allege - every man and his dog knows what the implications of doing what is the worst case scenario here - BTV has some 6m in cash - i just can't fathom it - that's my point... besides we know how dodgy the Chinese way of doing business is... just ask the Japanese companaies that have pulled their hi-tech manufacturning operations out of the mainland due to coroprate espionage... this may be far deeper than we can imagine...

Hello,

Where did this cash from ?
Have you read the P/L from this company BTV?
They have not made a cent for the last 3 years.

Look at borrowings !!!

edit
I guess it was the chinese fault for making BTV sell shares in THR before the announcements ?

Have you read what the chinese have said about Thor and the moly project ? Maybe they are right/maybe they are wrong about the moly project,

But I dont see your logic that the chinese caused this share query from the ASX ?

 

[laurie]

Sorry, you are kidding arent you?

2 executives of Thor who also happen to be the Managing Director and Company Secretary of Batavia werent privy to the information that the deal might be on shaky ground?

So their sale of shares in THR was based on what exactly? If the deal was about to be finalised as was expected by the market, then why sell, given that confirmation would give the sp a powerful further boost?

And if there was some problem, which there obviously was, i can understand their logic in wanting to dump shares at a premium. But unfort for everyone else, dumping their shares based on information that hasnt been, but should have been released to the market, is...well...sort of not allowed, putting it mildly!

What it means for you, if you hold, is that BTV were able to dump shares based on information that they knew, but you DIDNT.

Read the twisted logic in THR's response to the ASX. Its disturbing.

I stand to be corrected but I believe BTV/THR/TNG share the same building

cheers laurie

 

[hongwong]

I stand to be corrected but I believe BTV/THR/TNG share the same building

cheers laurie

Internet Address http://www.bataviamining.com.au
Registered Office Address Level 1 , 282 Rokeby Road , SUBIACO , WA, AUSTRALIA, 6005

Internet Address http://www.thormining.com
Registered Office Address Level 1 , 282 Rockeby Road , WEST PERTH , WA, AUSTRALIA, 6050

Internet Address http://www.tennantcreekgold.com.au
Registered Office Address Level 1 , 282 Rokeby Road , SUIBIACO , WA, AUSTRALIA, 6904


No laurie I correct you. Same floor and building. I wonder if you call them you will get the same reception person?

 

[hongwong]

It really quite sad

From commsec :

17/04/2007 6:56PM 2 MOU with Hunan - Extension

HNG approached Thor, late Friday afternoon 13 April 2007, to consider extending the above
deadlines as the due diligence was not yet complete and the revised JORC resource for
Molyhil is due shortly.
Thor has today agreed with HNG to:
1. Postpone the date to conclude due diligence until 30 April 2007; and
2. Postpone the date for completion of commercial negotiations until 11 May 2007.
Thor and HNG continue to work closely together on the outstanding due diligence matters,
and Thor is optimistic that all outstanding matters will be resolved.

From this
http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20070503/pdf/3128q2sczxk9sd.pdf
or
Commsec
03/05/2007 10:50AM 5 Response to ASX Query

The answers to question 3 was ‘no’ because the market was informed on 13 march 2007 that HNG had to complete due diligence by 15 April 2007, with best endeavours to conclude commercial finance terms and suitable off take by 30 April 2007. Absent an announcement on or before 15 April 2007 that HNG had decided to proceed, the market was aware that the transaction was not going to proceed. The company did not receive a notice from HNG advising of its intention to proceed by 15 April 2007 and as such thee was no need to announcement.

On Monday 16 April 2007 Thor sent a letter to HNG proposing that due diligence be concluded by 30 April 2007 and commercial finance terms and suitable off take completed by 11 May 2007.

17/04/2007 6:56PM 2 MOU with Hunan - Extension
17/04/2007 3:34PM 2 Trading Halt
17/04/2007 8:29AM 1 Batavia Holding
16/04/2007 4:15PM 1 BTV ann: Disposal of Part of Thor Investment

Not only is BTV allowed to dump shares before the announcements was made,

But THOR can also switch hats to determine who approached who on the 15th of April or was it the 13th ?

I honestly think if the ASX does not do something ...... with all these facts in black and white.

I really do wonder how much protection does the average investor have like us.

 

[theasxgorilla]

This is a function of the way that the regulation of stock markets around the world works. It actually leads to quite apparent insider trading. People close to the news know the news, but the company is supposed to wait until the news can be released to "the market" so everyone becomes aware of it at the same time. In practise this often does not work. Those close to the news act. Nobody likes seeing their fortune disolved.

Hongwong, on another thread you asked some questions about technical analysis. Understanding how the activities of someone like BTV can show up as price and volume information on a chart can be useful. Some technies like to refer the movement of large sums of money into and out of a market (share) as the smart money. What makes technical analysis of shares like THR less practical is that their super low market cap and lack of shareholder diversity mean that one constituent of this smart money can tip the scales and half the value of the share in day(s), if they decide to dump enough shares.

In anycase, well done on breaking the story.

 

[Sodapop]

if you look at BTV books from commsec

they have not made any money for 3 years

as of 2005 they only held 1 million in the bank

then in 2006 they have 10 million in the bank

Look at the borrowings

From commsec BTV
27/04/2007 10:08AM 5 Third Quarter Cashflow Report

7.8 millions in cash
7 million in borrowed income

I don't quite get what you're getting at - borrowed income??? They carry negligible debt - cashflow reports are fairly basic documents... I'd reccomend you to have a look at the consolidated balance sheet in the last 1/2 yearly report looking at this doco. there is nothing particularly material in either non-current or long-term liabilities... They are definitely not leveraged in any major way shape or form... Which implies there is no "going concern" or liquidity squeeze issues on the horizon...

And on your gripe about not making money for three years - yes that's correct - it's due to the fact that they were conducting scoping, PFS, BFS, etc on the Deflector deposit... like a resposible board and management would do (that's why they upset the market last year with the ill strred announcement about the BFS on Deflector)... And i think you will find that THR have a fine history of making no money as well prior to their listing on the ASX... I do beleive that they were AIM for quite a while before they came to the ASX (i could be wrong - if so i apologise)... My point remains the same regardless...

I am not defending BTV management - nor attacking them... I have issues with them in the past as well - but i think some of your observations are way off the mark...

Regards

 

[hongwong]

I don't quite get what you're getting at - borrowed income??? They carry negligible debt - cashflow reports are fairly basic documents... I'd reccomend you to have a look at the consolidated balance sheet in the last 1/2 yearly report looking at this doco. there is nothing particularly material in either non-current or long-term liabilities... They are definitely not leveraged in any major way shape or form... Which implies there is no "going concern" or liquidity squeeze issues on the horizon...

And on your gripe about not making money for three years - yes that's correct - it's due to the fact that they were conducting scoping, PFS, BFS, etc on the Deflector deposit... like a resposible board and management would do (that's why they upset the market last year with the ill strred announcement about the BFS on Deflector)... And i think you will find that THR have a fine history of making no money as well prior to their listing on the ASX... I do beleive that they were AIM for quite a while before they came to the ASX (i could be wrong - if so i apologise)... My point remains the same regardless...

I am not defending BTV management - nor attacking them... I have issues with them in the past as well - but i think some of your observations are way off the mark...

Regards

No need to say sorry or anything. We are here to educated each other.

lets say I am wrong about BTV and they hold 6 million in cash and no debt

What you are saying is that. Even so BTV knew that on th 13th of April that the Chinese wanted an extention for their dateline.

BTV sold shares on the 16th

an announcement was made on the 17th that MOU with Hunan - Extension

This was just one of those things ?

You are saying that BTV are cash rich so they would not want to do this ?

What part of my observations is way off the mark ?

For BTV (not THR)
Ok the 6 million of debt not on the balance sheet. There is two part you have to match. (P/L and also Balance sheet, you cant tell the story about a company with just one part of the report).
(Then you read the fine print to understand the company).
Refer to Commsec or on the ASX.
27/04/2007 10:08AM 5 Third Quarter Cashflow Report

1.18 Repayment of borrowings --- (7)

If there is no debt, why would they need to repay 7 million dollars ?
I mean are they so rich they are repaying everyones loans? I would love if they could help me out with my house loan !

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/en-gb/pricesnews/marketnews/marketnews.htm?bsg=true&ns=THR
this is THR listed on the AIM.

 

[Sodapop]

Psssst... that's $(7),000... immaterial from an accounting standpoint... could be for anything (strip joint, beer tab, entertainment, property plant and equip...)... but requires no real dissection as the top line is around $7m... Once again the cashflow statements are merely cheap and nasty filings made to the ASX - refer to the 1/2 yearly bal sheets and the annual reports for real verifiable detailled data - they are also audited (not that counts for a bag of beans these days - i am qualified accountant and i know what auditors do - and that's not much at all...)...

 

[hongwong]

Psssst... that's $(7),000... immaterial from an accounting standpoint... could be for anything (strip joint, beer tab, entertainment, property plant and equip...)... but requires no real dissection as the top line is around $7m... Once again the cashflow statements are merely cheap and nasty filings made to the ASX - refer to the 1/2 yearly bal sheets and the annual reports for real verifiable detailled data - they are also audited (not that counts for a bag of beans these days - i am qualified accountant and i know what auditors do - and that's not much at all...)...

then can I ask you a question as an accountant ?

how come the company is making no money for the last 3 year then have all of sudden have 10 million in the bank ?

I still dont see your point that BTV is cash rich so they will not sell THR shares on news made on the 13th april ?

 

[Sodapop]

If you look back in the announcements for BTV, about 1 1/2 to 2 years ago BTV was doing VERY well - and they had Bell Potter (or someone like that get onboard) and had a swag of options expire close to or in the money (plus for exercise you would get a free option for June 07 - i took part in this) anyway the fact of the matter BTV was a company on the up and they had no problems rasing money from the public - ostensibly to get Deflector over the line... the money they had come into the bank was from this...

second question... i can't see experienced directors and management pulling a stunt like some people are insinuating for the sake of $1.7m when they have ~$7m in the bank (and no debt) - it is suicidal... that's my point... If they were down to $500,000 cash and equivs. it would make sense (out of desparation)... but not when you have plenty of cash to keep you going for a while...

sure the question is pertinent - but so is the question to HMG about why they got involved in a minnow like THR when from the outset they would have known it was too small for their appetite - all sorts of reasons come to mind... just use your imagination... and i won't post them here for obvious reasons...

 

[hongwong]

second question... i can't see experienced directors and management pulling a stunt like some people are insinuating for the sake of $1.7m when they have ~$7m in the bank (and no debt) - it is suicidal... that's my point... If they were down to $500,000 cash and equivs. it would make sense (out of desparation)... but not when you have plenty of cash to keep you going for a while...

Why not have more cash?
You speak of how audit are doggy and director are not


I believe its called milking the market like in the .com days.

Companies just keep raising money with options and more issue more shares.

 

[laurie]

Thor has weathered the storm quite well any other stock would have collapsed back to high 20's so its strength must be what's in the ground it will be a tough climb back to the top but once above .40c this will hopefully be behind them

cheers laurie

 

[alankew]

Bouncing back quite well,up 12% today on a down day for the market and no news,or is there? Volume isnt unusual

 

[laurie]

Verbal agreement from the CLC to start uranium drilling news out just at close.

cheers laurie

 

[Solaris]

Hi all,
This is my first post.
Signed up to this top forum today.
Had many visits as a guest and liked the posters here.
Great posters like Kennas, Tech/a, YT and many others.
Thank you very much guys. Hope to learn and have a lot to learn in trading shares.
There are a lot of goodies in this forum.
I am learning how to use T/A for entry and exits.
I hold the following shares:
THR,MLS and CTS.
Been following THR for a while and it looks like it is on the move again.
Anyone care to share any thoughts about THR?

Cheers

 

[Pommiegranite]

Hi all,
This is my first post.
Signed up to this top forum today.
Had many visits as a guest and liked the posters here.
Great posters like Kennas, Tech/a, YT and many others.
Thank you very much guys. Hope to learn and have a lot to learn in trading shares.
There are a lot of goodies in this forum.
I am learning how to use T/A for entry and exits.
I hold the following shares:
THR,MLS and CTS.
Been following THR for a while and it looks like it is on the move again.
Anyone care to share any thoughts about THR?

Cheers

Hey Solaris,

Welcome onbaord. Finally a fellow Thorminator on ASF

I've been holding some Thor for a while, ever since Hunan pulled out.
I saw Thor as oversold and therefore a good buying opportunity for someone wanting Moly exposure.

As I'm sure you're aware, we're awaiting an upgrade for Molyhill, which I am hoping is any day now, as the 6 weeks have elapsed since Management mentioned we would hear.

Thor management certainly play their cards very close to their chests, so its a little difficult to get information out of them.

My main concern with Thor is that we still do not know why Hunan pulled out. Worst case, is that they weren't inpressed by what they saw. I'm more positive though, and reckon Thor were fully aware of the potential they have, and therefore were looking for a high premium.

Once the Molyhill upgrade comes out, I wouldn't be surprised if another chinese company comes out of the woodwork.

 

[Solaris]

Hey Solaris,

Welcome onbaord. Finally a fellow Thorminator on ASF

I've been holding some Thor for a while, ever since Hunan pulled out.
I saw Thor as oversold and therefore a good buying opportunity for someone wanting Moly exposure.

As I'm sure you're aware, we're awaiting an upgrade for Molyhill, which I am hoping is any day now, as the 6 weeks have elapsed since Management mentioned we would hear.

Thor management certainly play their cards very close to their chests, so its a little difficult to get information out of them.

My main concern with Thor is that we still do not know why Hunan pulled out. Worst case, is that they weren't inpressed by what they saw. I'm more positive though, and reckon Thor were fully aware of the potential they have, and therefore were looking for a high premium.

Once the Molyhill upgrade comes out, I wouldn't be surprised if another chinese company comes out of the woodwork.

Hi Pommiegranite,
Thanks for the post.
Yes, I agree that with the withdrawal of Hunan, interest in THR has dwindled.
Hunan believed the investment was too risky, that's why it pulled out.
I, like you, believe in THR.
The next resource update will reignite some interest from other companies though.

Cheers
Solaris

 

[jman2007]

Looks to be generating good support around the $0.37 and $0.38 mark, i'd like to see a definitive move up to the mid-forties to see positive evidence of a new trend.

I also picked up a bunch of these shares after the Hunan withdrawal from the MOU, the ethics of the management who sold of their THR shares certainly raised a few eyebrows, but I believe these guys certainly have potential.

Anyone been following the spot price of Mo? Up to US $35/lb and looks to be holding strong, a rise of over US $10/lb in the last 6 months. Let's hope the the updated Molyhill resource figures bode well for any potential offtake agreement. My feeling is that there are some pretty interested parties watching this from the sidelines.

 

[jman2007]

Seems unable to sustain support in the 37-38c range, market obviously unwilling to assign more value to these guys until offtake agreement secured I suspect. Seems to be limited downside under about 31c to this stock at the moment, perhaps will see more sideways trending until we here some postive news fom THR re Molyhill