The West has lost its freedom of speech

[SirRumpole]

Who said 'all muslims are dangerous' apart from yourself?

I take it then that you disagree with the President of Turkey, whom you quoted as saying "there are no moderate Muslims" ?

 

[Bintang]

I take it then that you disagree with the President of Turkey, whom you quoted as saying "there are no moderate Muslims" ?

Rumpole, you are so very confused:
I did not quote the Turkish PM as saying that because that’s not what he said. But I absolutely agree with what he did say which was, “There is no moderate Islam”

 

[SirRumpole]

While we are on the use of derogatory terms to close down debate, would you consider that the word "Islamotoady" falls into the same category as "Islamophobic" ?

Well there are a very large number of people in America who believe that President Obama himself is a muslim (but a closet one). I happen to think they are wrong. He is just America’s chief Islamotoady.

 

[luutzu]

Islamophobia is a word that was made up by the Mulsim Brother Hood in the early 1990’s. Its direct purpose is to suppress freedom of speech because an Islamophobe is someone who says something that Muslims don’t like to hear. Such people must be silenced. Therefore it is a fascist term which is meant to suppress.

Bill Warner explains it very succinctly in this video:

From WikiPedia: Islamophobia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia
Etymology and definitions[edit]
The word Islamophobia is a neologism[1] formed from Islam and -phobia, a suffix used in English to form "nouns with the sense ‘fear of ””””’, ‘aversion to ””””’."[2] The compound form Islamo- contains the thematic vowel -o-, and is found in earlier coinages such as Islamo-Christian from the 19th century.
According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word means "Intense dislike or fear of Islam, esp. as a political force; hostility or prejudice towards Muslims" and is attested to in English as early as 1923.[3] Mattias Gardell defines Islamophobia as "socially reproduced prejudices and aversion to Islam and Muslims, as well as actions and practices that attack, exclude or discriminate against persons on the basis that they are or perceived to be Muslim and be associated with Islam".[4]


You do have the same internet as we do right?

 

[cynic]

Of course it's possible than an individual could actually be one of the above descriptions, it's just the gratuitous use of these words to shut down debate that we object to , yes ?

+1

Situations do occur where one finds oneself debating individuals that start looking suspiciously like they do indeed fit such definitions.

However, direction of such accusations at an opponent is generally futile (and often counterproductive).

 

[Bintang]

While we are on the use of derogatory terms to close down debate, would you consider that the word "Islamotoady" falls into the same category as "Islamophobic" ?

Yes. And that is why I used it …….->

+1
Situations do occur where one finds oneself debating individuals that start looking suspiciously like they do indeed fit such definitions.

However, direction of such accusations at an opponent is generally futile (and often counterproductive).

->….. it works both ways.

 

[cynic]

->….. it works both ways.

I'm not quite certain that I understand your meaning here.

Would you care to elaborate?

 

[Bintang]

I'm not quite certain that I understand your meaning here.

Would you care to elaborate?

The last few posts have merely established that on one side of this debate there are islamophobes and on the other side there are islamotoadys. This is about as interesting and useful as saying that one side of parliament comprises Laborphobes and the other side Liberalphobes.

No amount of name calling does anything to further the quality of the debate but it does demonstrate the lengths that people will go to to shut down debate and try to limit freedom of speech.

 

[cynic]

The last few posts...

Thanks for that Bintang.

I quite agree that the scenario can (and does at times) occur in the manner you've described and am glad you took the time to highlight that possibility.

 

[SirRumpole]

No amount of name calling does anything to further the quality of the debate but it does demonstrate the lengths that people will go to to shut down debate and try to limit freedom of speech.

It doesn't seem to have stopped you

 

[moXJO]

I suppose you could say the increasing use of "homophobia" and "xenophobia" were other examples of debate stifling.

I suppose you could , but context is everything.
Attacking a religion or a dirty dirty lefty is one opinion/belief system attacking another.
Look how nasty political threads get without people thinking twice.

Someone attacking a race or gender preference is different again as you are attacking what makes that person not what choice they made.

If you are raising legitimate concerns, not just spewing out hate then debate away.

 

[Bintang]

From WikiPedia: Islamophobia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia
Etymology and definitions[edit]
According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word means "Intense dislike or fear of Islam, esp. as a political force; hostility or prejudice towards Muslims" and is attested to in English as early as 1923.[3]

Yes, you are partly correct and I am partly wrong. After doing some extra research I can see that the etymology of the word ‘islamophobia’ is older than the 1990’s so that the Muslim Brother Hood cannot be credited with its invention. (so clearly many internet sources are wrong on this point). However, prior to the 1990’s the word was seldom used - but some time after that it was seized on and exploited.

1994 Times 28 June 21/5, I suspect that Islamophobia, under the guise of fundamentalist scaremongering, is being deliberately promoted in the overseas media.

From WikiPedia: Islamophobia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia
Etymology and definitions[edit]
Mattias Gardell defines Islamophobia as "socially reproduced prejudices and aversion to Islam and Muslims, as well as actions and practices that attack, exclude or discriminate against persons on the basis that they are or perceived to be Muslim and be associated with Islam".[4]

Note that the latter half of the Wikipedia entry on islamophobia references Mattias Gardell [4]. His definition dates from much later than the 1990’s and is unsurprising given his personal political views.

It is immaterial who actually invented the term islamophobia. It does not change the fact that the word is being used deliberately to intimidate critics of islam into silence.

 

[Bintang]

It doesn't seem to have stopped you

That's right because I refuse to submit to Islam.

 

[SirRumpole]

That's right because I refuse to submit to Islam.

Who is asking you to submit ?

I think all religions have nasty sides to them, but that doesn't mean that they are all hotspots of terrorism. More should be done in the way of intelligence gathering to sort out the wolves from the sheep, and deport them if we can, but attacking a whole group of people because of a few is irrational.

 

[Bintang]

Who is asking you to submit ?

I think all religions have nasty sides to them, but that doesn't mean that they are all hotspots of terrorism. More should be done in the way of intelligence gathering to sort out the wolves from the sheep, and deport them if we can, but attacking a whole group of people because of a few is irrational.

Attacking Islam is not the same as attacking a whole group of people. Islam is an ideology.



PS. Nothing in the above photos is 'hate speech'. It is just peaceful expressions of Islam.

 

[Tink]

Good on you, Andrew Bolt and Miranda Devine, for speaking out and saying it as it is.

SBS takes a controversial stance on family values.

TWO opposing commercials were booked this month on SBS, the broadcaster we pay $287 million a year to make us more civilised.

Guess which was banned for offending good taste?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...268572344?sv=9b5933dda322ffe27f3827f451a8fd8e

 

[Tisme]

Good on you, Andrew Bolt and Miranda Devine, for speaking out and saying it as it is.

SBS takes a controversial stance on family values.

TWO opposing commercials were booked this month on SBS, the broadcaster we pay $287 million a year to make us more civilised.

Guess which was banned for offending good taste?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...268572344?sv=9b5933dda322ffe27f3827f451a8fd8e

Tink, it all depends on who delivers the message. When I raised the issue of child exposure to lascivious advertising before a movie I had the moral police here telling me off for being protective, some even seemingly promoting child exploitation. If I had an avatar the made me out to be an apple pie grandmother I'm sure the attitudes would be different.

The SBS brought us Sunnyvale, so it's hardly a bastion of Victorian era morals.

In this instance the SBS is founded on ethnic communication and would probably see its role as pushing traditional boundaries to capture a wider audience. The beige set have always got the ABC, albeit peppered with the F and C bombs masquerading as art and freedom of expression..... the UK channel is probably a better channel again..

 

[moXJO]

Tink, it all depends on who delivers the message. When I raised the issue of child exposure to lascivious advertising before a movie I had the moral police here telling me off for being protective, some even seemingly promoting child exploitation.

Oh here we go, you just can't help yourself.... Neither can I

Rated M movie= rated M ad. If anything you were irresponsible as a parent exposing your child to a movie above their age range. Then had a whinge about it. And yes I do find that hilarious.
And if anything I would be the debauchery police according to you.

 

[luutzu]

Oh here we go, you just can't help yourself.... Neither can I

Rated M movie= rated M ad. If anything you were irresponsible as a parent exposing your child to a movie above their age range. Then had a whinge about it. And yes I do find that hilarious.
And if anything I would be the debauchery police according to you.

Independence Day Ratings around the world:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116629/parentalguide

PG or PG-13.

It's an alien-invasion movie, not Lolita or Show Girl or Strip Tease or Basic Instinct right?

Alright, hundreds of millions of people were vaporized (off-screen), but if that golden retriever didn't make it inside the tunnel, it'll be an M rating. And if the movie have a half naked lady mourning or dancing around, it won't be PG that's for sure.

 

[moXJO]

Independence Day Ratings around the world:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116629/parentalguide

PG or PG-13.

It's an alien-invasion movie, not Lolita or Show Girl or Strip Tease or Basic Instinct right?

Alright, hundreds of millions of people were vaporized (off-screen), but if that golden retriever didn't make it inside the tunnel, it'll be an M rating. And if the movie have a half naked lady mourning or dancing around, it won't be PG that's for sure.

Wrong, the ratings have been changed a few times since. It was M when it was released