The West has lost its freedom of speech

[Bintang]

"There are no moderate Muslims" as espoused by the President of Turkey, was put forward by Bintang as being a statement that all Muslims support. "This guy thinks like that so therefore all Muslims do". You might as well say that some Conservative Christians hate blacks, therefore all Christians do.

Oh really. Let’s review what was actually said.

The people here who say "there are no moderate Muslims" are, as someone else has already said, sowing the seeds of a civil war on our own land.

You should voice your objection to the Prime Minister Of Turkey:

All I did was provide you with an example of someone who says “there are no moderate Muslims”. Because that person happens to be a muslim and leader of a majority muslim country it did not quite fit your narrative. So now you are trying to twist the facts.

By all means criticise the violent and antisocial aspects of Islam, and there are many. Just don't take it out on all Muslims. That is a recipe for social disorder and expansion of an "Us against them" mentality.

Well the fact of the matter is that there is already a great deal of “social disorder” in Western countries relating to Islam. What is the root cause of this?
Is the root cause anyone who criticizes Islam or is it the fact that the values of Islam are totally incompatible with the values of secular, Western society?

Consider this another way. If Islam did not exist at all in Western society would it be attracting so much criticism?

 

[SirRumpole]

What is the root cause of this?

A few radicals who take a "strict" interpretation of the Quran.

 

[Bintang]

A few radicals who take a "strict" interpretation of the Quran.

Yes, a bit like the small percentage of radicals called Nazis during the 1930's who took a strict interpretation of 'Mein Kampf'.

 

[SirRumpole]

Yes, a bit like the small percentage of radicals called Nazis during the 1930's who took a strict interpretation of 'Mein Kampf'.

Well then, let's have your solution to the problem ? Have you got one or are you content with just complaining ?

 

[Bintang]

Well then, let's have your solution to the problem ? Have you got one or are you content with just complaining ?

It is not possible to have a sensible discussion about solutions with people who deny that there is a problem.
People like Geert Wilders try but are howled down by shouts of Islamophobia.

 

[SirRumpole]

It is not possible to have a sensible discussion about solutions with people who deny that there is a problem.
People like Geert Wilders try but are howled down by shouts of Islamophobia.

View attachment 61400

A complete cop out.

I don't deny there is a problem, I question the extent of it in this country.

So I ask again, what is your solution ?

 

[Bintang]

A complete cop out.
I don't deny there is a problem, I question the extent of it in this country.
So I ask again, what is your solution ?

You are correct to question the extent of it (so far) in this country but in this thread we have been discussing ‘The West’ in general – not just Australia.

One of the worst cop outs of this thread is actually the following.

As I said, one man's interpretation. There are hardliners and moderates like I keep on saying. So much so that I am tired of saying it and will leave you to your Islamophobia.

In 1938 Neville Chamberlain, assured the British public (after signing an agreement with Adolph Hitler) that he had secured ‘peace for our time’ so ‘go home and get a nice quiet sleep’.

At the time, the lone voice, Winston Churchill attempted to make those around him recognise that there was a ‘problem’ and he proposed solutions. But he was ridiculed by many and ignored by others. If this was being replayed today Churchill would be howled down with the charge of Naziphobia.

And that brings me back to the actual topic of this thread since the only complaint I have made in this thread is the very complaint posed by the title of this thread, which is that The West Has Lost its freedom of Speech.
Freedom of speech is destroyed when the use of imbicilic slogans such as Islamophibia are used to silence or ignore discussion.

If you no longer deny that there is a problem and want to discuss solutions I suggest we start a new thread.

 

[SirRumpole]

If you no longer deny that there is a problem and want to discuss solutions I suggest we start a new thread.

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29484&p=859184#post859184

 

[Bintang]

https://www.aussiestockforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29484&p=859184#post859184

Well done. 10 out of 10 for initiative.

 

[DB008]

Copenhagen free speech debate shooting: One dead

Gunmen have killed one person and injured three police officers at a free speech debate in Copenhagen attended by a controversial Swedish cartoonist, officials say.

The French ambassador was also present at the seminar.

Reports say up to 40 shots were fired and a manhunt has been launched.

Swedish cartoonist Lars Vilks, who has previously faced death threats over caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad, was unhurt.

Shortly after the shooting, a message appeared on the Twitter feed of French ambassador Francois Zimeray saying he was still alive.

In an audio recording which emerged from the attack, one of the speakers at the debate is suddenly interrupted by a barrage of gunshots.

Eyewitness Niels Ivar Larsen, speaking to the Associated Press news agency, said: "I heard someone firing with an automatic weapon and someone shouting.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31472423?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

 

[Smurf1976]

Freedom of speech is destroyed when the use of imbicilic slogans such as Islamophibia are used to silence or ignore discussion.

A couple of examples of that in recent times. Islam is one. That the word "denier" now has a widespread meaning relating to a specific subject (climate change) is another. Both are efforts to stifle or outright silence debate.

On a positive note, the anti-free speech defamation laws have been dropped here in Tas. Sadly, it took a private company to force some commonsense and put a stop to the government's agenda.

 

[SirRumpole]

I suppose you could say the increasing use of "homophobia" and "xenophobia" were other examples of debate stifling.

 

[DB008]

Copenhagen shootings: Police kill 'gunman' after two attacks

Police in Copenhagen say they have shot dead a man they believe was behind two deadly attacks in the Danish capital hours earlier.

Police say they killed the man in the Norrebro district after he opened fire on them.

It came after one person was killed and three police officers injured at a free speech debate in a cafe on Saturday.

In the second attack, a Jewish man was killed and two police officers wounded near the city's main synagogue.

Police say video surveillance suggested the same man carried out both attacks. They do not believe any other people were involved.

"We assume that it's the same culprit behind both incidents, and we also assume that the culprit that was shot by the police task force... is the person behind both of these assassinations," Chief Police Inspector Torben Molgaard Jensen told a news conference.

He said police would maintain a high presence in the city.

The BBC's Malcolm Brabant in Copenhagen says the city has been on high alert after the shootings.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31475803

 

[cynic]

I suppose you could say the increasing use of "homophobia" and "xenophobia" were other examples of debate stifling.

One could probably add "misogynist", "racist" and perhaps XYZ "sympathiser/lobbyist" to the list of terms exploited for such purposes.

 

[Bintang]

I suppose you could say the increasing use of "homophobia" and "xenophobia" were other examples of debate stifling.

One could probably add "misogynist", "racist" and perhaps XYZ "sympathiser/lobbyist" to the list of terms exploited for such purposes.

I would add that Islam itself is homophobic and that should make all gay people islamophobic.

Islam Question and Answer: Why does Islam forbid lesbianism and homosexuality?

Killed for 'being gay': ISIS savages blindfolded man and threw him off tower block - then stoned him to death when he SURVIVED the fall

 

[Bintang]

Islamophobia is a word that was made up by the Mulsim Brother Hood in the early 1990’s. Its direct purpose is to suppress freedom of speech because an Islamophobe is someone who says something that Muslims don’t like to hear. Such people must be silenced. Therefore it is a fascist term which is meant to suppress.

Bill Warner explains it very succinctly in this video:

 

[SirRumpole]

Of course it's possible than an individual could actually be one of the above descriptions, it's just the gratuitous use of these words to shut down debate that we object to , yes ?

 

[Bintang]

Of course it's possible than an individual could actually be one of the above descriptions, it's just the gratuitous use of these words to shut down debate that we object to , yes ?

Depends on what you think the words mean. What is your definition of Islamophobic?

Eg. If islamophobic is used in the sense of having a 'fear of islam' then a gay person who has such a fear (for obviously valid and rational reasons) is thereby islamophobic. Is there something wrong with that?

 

[SirRumpole]

Depends on what you think the words mean. What is your definition of Islamophobic?

Eg. If islamophobic is used in the sense of having a 'fear of islam' then a gay person who has such a fear (for obviously valid and rational reasons) is thereby islamophobic. Is there something wrong with that?

There is nothing wrong with being afraid of anything for "valid and rational reasons". However you could have a fear of snakes on the grounds that some snakes are dangerous, however a lot are not. The idea is not to go around killing all snakes on suspicion, but to learn how to sort out the poisonous ones from the harmless ones.

Saying "all Muslims are dangerous" is the same as saying "all snakes are dangerous", neither is a rational or valid statement.

 

[Bintang]

Saying "all Muslims are dangerous" is the same as saying "all snakes are dangerous", neither is a rational or valid statement.

Who said 'all muslims are dangerous' apart from yourself?

I personally have a fear of Islam because of the proved potential of its ideology to cause havoc in Western society.