The West has lost its freedom of speech

[Tink]

Yes, that is how it was before.

Society can work out right from wrong, I feel we have been silenced, as I have said before, with this PC, and these laws where you cannot say anything.

If we want a serious debate about issues in this country, we should be allowed to speak.
Do you feel we can now?

 

[SirRumpole]

Yes, that is how it was before.

Society can work out right from wrong, I feel we have been silenced, as I have said before, with this PC, and these laws where you cannot say anything.

If we want a serious debate about issues in this country, we should be allowed to speak.
Do you feel we can now?

Considering some of the stuff that has been said on this forum, yes I believe that we can.

 

[Tisme]

Considering some of the stuff that has been said on this forum, yes I believe that we can.

Back when the war2 was still visiting the poor sods in their dreams who served in it, I was employed in a workshop complex populated with them. They were from everywhere Europe and they had that old skool distrust and hate for their work mates; all except for the Brits who kept their friendly rivalry between themselves and above those from across the English Channel side. Oh there was the Italians who just always seemed friendly, happy, polite and so grateful to have a new place to call home (wonderful people the Italians, by and large).

Even back then we were importing damaged people who had unresolved issues and generational hatreds.

It was rather a shocking thing for me to see the tensions and eruptions and the vulgar language only cemented my disdain for them and their primitive behaviours. None of them were Islamic as I recall, but supposed Christians, dispossessed of their birth rights.

It was the Australian tough nuts who had also seen and done things in the war they wouldn't talk about, who showed the way by letting it be known that if things continued, things would really get ugly and the protagonists better shake hands and act politely to each other or else.... no police, no specific legislation enacted, just peer group pressure to do the right thing, i.e. "don't s4it the mob".

 

[SirRumpole]

Back when the war2 was still visiting the poor sods in their dreams who served in it, I was employed in a workshop complex populated with them. They were from everywhere Europe and they had that old skool distrust and hate for their work mates; all except for the Brits who kept their friendly rivalry between themselves and above those from across the English Channel side. Oh there was the Italians who just always seemed friendly, happy, polite and so grateful to have a new place to call home (wonderful people the Italians, by and large).

Even back then we were importing damaged people who had unresolved issues and generational hatreds.

It was rather a shocking thing for me to see the tensions and eruptions and the vulgar language only cemented my disdain for them and their primitive behaviours. None of them were Islamic as I recall, but supposed Christians, dispossessed of their birth rights.

It was the Australian tough nuts who had also seen and done things in the war they wouldn't talk about, who showed the way by letting it be known that if things continued, things would really get ugly and the protagonists better shake hands and act politely to each other or else.... no police, no specific legislation enacted, just peer group pressure to do the right thing, i.e. "don't s4it the mob".

Well put, but I wonder how many "tough nuts" we have today ?

Not much war to speak of for 70 years (ok, there was Vietnam and Korea but they were local squabbles involving relatively few Australians).

I think we as a population have gone soft and don't really have a sense of importance of what our guys fought for in WWII, or a sense of resolve to get to grips with today's problems, extremism, drug running and organised crime gangs to name a few.

Do we need another war to regain our "independence" ? I hope not, but we all need some wakeup call to galvanise our psyche and restore our resolve.

Reintroduce conscription perhaps ? I don't like the idea of that particularly, but more organised community involvement in common issues wouldn't go astray.

 

[Hodgie]

So you would support the renouncment of all defamation laws ?

Where people start to mix their personal opinions and present them as facts for personal gain (or just pure revenge) is where these laws are required. The reason that most contracts and deeds of settlement will have confidentiality agreements.

Often the general public will not know enough of the facts so if these defamation laws did not exist and ones opinion was the prevailing word it could be taken as fact to many. Rumors and opinions can have devastating impacts on a person/business/economy if there is nothing to monitor what people can say.

 

[Value Collector]

I certainly agree that ideas should be challenged, but what about cartoons of religious figures in obscene poses etc ?

.

I guess that's a way to show the religious groups who demand we respect their silly ideas, that in fact we don't have to respect them, because to us they are just silly ideas.

Especially if they are making fun of the double standards and hypocrisy of the religious ideas.

eg. I saw a cartoon recently (it may have been on here I am not sure) of a catholic priest getting a blow job from a child, the caption said something like "Don't worry, I'm wearing a condom", That's a clear shot at the hypocrisy of a church that publically claims condoms are bad and immoral, but has hidden and covered up child molestation cases.

I think that sort of cartoon is good because it points out that these religious figures with all their self proclaimed greatness, are not above criticism, and its a reminder that while they tell us we are immoral, they them selves have be guilty of great immorality.

 

[Bintang]

I guess that's a way to show the religious groups who demand we respect their silly ideas, that in fact we don't have to respect them, because to us they are just silly ideas.

Isn’t that exactly what Charlie Hedbo did?
And then along came a hail of bullets from AK47s.

 

[Bintang]

It’s funny how the President of that great land of the free who you would expect to be a paragon of freedom of speech doesn’t seem to act that way when it comes to Islam.

At the United Nations on September 25, 2012, President Obama said:
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam".

For the Charlie Hedbo victims his words were prophetic.
For the Charlie Hedbo slaughterers his words must have been inspirational.

 

[Tisme]

It’s funny how the President of that great land of the free who you would expect to be a paragon of freedom of speech doesn’t seem to act that way when it comes to Islam.

At the United Nations on September 25, 2012, President Obama said:
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam".

You are cherry picking a quote out of context. Actual speech for the prevailing mood at the time:


It is time to leave the call of violence and the politics of division behind. On so many issues, we face a choice between the promise of the future, or the prisons of the past. And we cannot afford to get it wrong. We must seize this moment. And America stands ready to work with all who are willing to embrace a better future.

The future must not belong to those who target Coptic Christians in Egypt ”” it must be claimed by those in Tahrir Square who chanted, "Muslims, Christians, we are one." The future must not belong to those who bully women ”” it must be shaped by girls who go to school, and those who stand for a world where our daughters can live their dreams just like our sons.

The future must not belong to those corrupt few who steal a country's resources ”” it must be won by the students and entrepreneurs, the workers and business owners who seek a broader prosperity for all people. Those are the women and men that America stands with; theirs is the vision we will support.

The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. But to be credible, those who condemn that slander must also condemn the hate we see in the images of Jesus Christ that are desecrated, or churches that are destroyed, or the Holocaust that is denied.

Let us condemn incitement against Sufi Muslims and Shiite pilgrims. It's time to heed the words of Gandhi: "Intolerance is itself a form of violence and an obstacle to the growth of a true democratic spirit." Together, we must work towards a world where we are strengthened by our differences, and not defined by them. That is what America embodies, that's the vision we will support.

 

[moXJO]

Tisme whats your stance on religion?

 

[Bintang]

You are cherry picking a quote out of context. Actual speech for the prevailing mood at the time:

The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. But to be credible, those who condemn that slander must also condemn the hate we see in the images of Jesus Christ that are desecrated, or churches that are destroyed, or the Holocaust that is denied.

Let us condemn incitement against Sufi Muslims and Shiite pilgrims. It's time to heed the words of Gandhi: "Intolerance is itself a form of violence and an obstacle to the growth of a true democratic spirit." Together, we must work towards a world where we are strengthened by our differences, and not defined by them. That is what America embodies, that's the vision we will support. [/I][/SIZE]

It's not cherry picking because how many muslims have condemned anything other than slander against their own religion?
If any cherry picking is done it is done by the Islamicists and the Islamotoadys.

 

[moXJO]

Well put, but I wonder how many "tough nuts" we have today ?

NOT bloody many when people are getting PTSD over a friggen undie ad.

Tisme thats gold

 

[Bintang]

NOT bloody many when people are getting PTSD over a friggen undie ad.

Tisme thats gold

No bloody surprise considering that our ‘tough nuts’ of yesteryear were not brought up on a diet of leftist, political correctness.

Hell do people even still eat weetbix these days?

They should. It’s halal.

 

[Tisme]

Tisme whats your stance on religion?

Don't like it, but tolerate people who do. Like to think my wife is in a happy place and hedge my bets incase there is a God or Gods.

 

[Value Collector]

Isn’t that exactly what Charlie Hedbo did?
And then along came a hail of bullets from AK47s.

Yes, but whats your point?

I am against the shootings, as I said before, non violence is never justified in reaction to non violent acts.

The cartoonists were in the right, the shooters in the wrong, simple as that

 

[luutzu]

NOT bloody many when people are getting PTSD over a friggen undie ad.

Tisme thats gold

That's low.

The man was worried for his kids.

 

[Value Collector]

That's low.

The man was worried for his kids.

Worried about what?

Can some one provide a link to the ad? I find it hard to believe Bonds had an ad that was that bad, I mean he mentioned women kissing, and near naked men (well it was an underwear commercial).

 

[Bintang]

I guess that's a way to show the religious groups who demand we respect their silly ideas, that in fact we don't have to respect them, because to us they are just silly ideas.

Yes, but whats your point?

I am against the shootings, as I said before, non violence is never justified in reaction to non violent acts.

The cartoonists were in the right, the shooters in the wrong, simple as that

My comment was not directed against you. We are obviously in agreement. My point is that the fine ‘ideal’ which you espoused is not shared by Islamicists and their toadying apologists.

 

[luutzu]

Worried about what?

Can some one provide a link to the ad? I find it hard to believe Bonds had an ad that was that bad, I mean he mentioned women kissing, and near naked men (well it was an underwear commercial).

Didn't Tisme said he was worried with the sexual innuendos in that ad being shown in front of his 11 year olds?

I personally like that ad with the ant-eater having its tongue all over that pretty lady in Bonds briefs, but I didn't have kids then. Now, I don't even watch news in front of the kids.

 

[Value Collector]

Didn't Tisme said he was worried with the sexual innuendos in that ad being shown in front of his 11 year olds?

I personally like that ad with the ant-eater having its tongue all over that pretty lady in Bonds briefs, but I didn't have kids then. Now, I don't even watch news in front of the kids.

I think you can shelter your kids to much, I mean by the time they are 11, in my opinion they should already understand the concept of sex, a lot of kids have already hit puberty or are about too, by then, you should have had the talk already.

I mean such an ad probably shouldn't be shown before a Disney movie, but if the movie is PG, then I don't see a problem, that's what "parental guidance" is for.