The West has lost its freedom of speech

[luutzu]

When I read this post bellenuit, I thought that perhaps you were underestimating the capacity of those with opposing views, for engaging in fallacious reasoning and argument.

No one is "suggesting" you did anything. It's been clearly stated, written down, in this forum by you and company.

How do you call it reasoning when you said Muslims and Islam is this and that, all of them... and somehow not all, not even most, of them do what you say they'll do. And yet you still believe it.

Anyway...

 

[Hodgie]

Why is Ricky grinning from ear to ear?
I reckon it is because he knows his analogy won't quite fit:

You can choose your religion, even if your parents have given you a particular one in your genes. Once old enough, and especially with the benefit of a Western-style education, you should be able to step from Stone Age beliefs into the Here and Now. But no matter how well educated you are, you'll find it impossible to beat cancer with rational thought.

That doesn't mean the "hatred" argument isn't valid: Hating a person for an affliction visited upon them is stupid, especially if they caught it involuntarily. Feeling pity for the innocent victim would be more appropriate.

On the positive side though, Ricky's pointed comment that "even the dumbest should understand" can be appreciated as a kind of humorous caricature, not unlike a Charlie Hebdo cartoon.

I actually don't think that the picture has anything to do with that quote. I'm pretty sure someone has just grabbed the quote from Ricky's twitter feed and added the picture in. Also, he is primarily a comedian, he is grinning all the time.

I agree with the quote in its literal sense, non-specific to Muslims but religion in general. I don't think its particularly relevant that no one chooses to have cancer but (arguably) people choose to hold religious beliefs.

I personally dislike (hate might be too strong a word for me to use here) both religion and cancer but I don't dislike anyone specifically because they are religious just the same as I would not dislike anyone for the fact that they have cancer.

We don't need to read any more into it than that, keep in mind that this was a tweet which limits him to 140 characters, it's not like he can go into great details on the differences between cancer and religion. He got his point across which is the purpose of the tweet in the first place. Its easy enough to choose cancer as a comparison because I don't think anyone will think the statement "I hate cancer" is offensive or insensitive.

 

[Calliope]

No one is "suggesting" you did anything. It's been clearly stated, written down, in this forum by you and company.

How do you call it reasoning when you said Muslims and Islam is this and that, all of them... and somehow not all, not even most, of them do what you say they'll do. And yet you still believe it.

Anyway...

You are obviously trying to tell me something...but I haven't got a clue what it is.:dunno: While you persist in fallacious reasoning, your posts will continue to be nonsense.

 

[luutzu]

You are obviously trying to tell me something...but I haven't got a clue what it is.:dunno: While you persist in fallacious reasoning, your posts will continue to be nonsense.

Maybe if I agree with you, then mine and your nonsense will become sensible.



Anyway, life's too short for this.

 

[Bintang]

Yes, a monumental difference that so many fail to see or don't want to see. Ricky Gervais puts it in terms even the dumbest should understand.......

View attachment 61197

Bellenuit, Thank you for the excellent clarification.

 

[Bintang]

You are obviously trying to tell me something...but I haven't got a clue what it is.:dunno: While you persist in fallacious reasoning, your posts will continue to be nonsense.

Maybe if I agree with you, then mine and your nonsense will become sensible.

This sounds a bit like Bill Shorten's classic statement, "I don't know what the Prime Minister said but I agree with her". Iuutzu, I think you have the potential to become leader of the Labor Party.

 

[Macquack]

Earlier today, I exposed as circular reasoning the "proof" for God's existence or the Qur'an being Allah's word. Your and Calli's redefinition of Muslim appears to me as following a similar fallacy. The essence of what you're saying is "All Muslims are bad radicals; anyone who has been brought up a Muslim and is not bad and radical, can no longer be called a Muslim. Therefore, all Muslims are bad radicals. q.e.d."

It is a common feature of posters whose arguments are going up a blind alley to ascribe this sort of twisted inference to the statements of those who do not agree with them.

None of the above nonsense bears any relationship to anything I have said...and you know it. It is a deliberate distortion.

Where is the distortion?

Pixel nailed your position on “muslims” to a T, and you don't like it?

 

[Bintang]

Where is the distortion?

Pixel nailed your position on “muslims” to a T, and you don't like it?

With selective reading of the posts on this subject I can see how this conclusion might be reached. But just because you and pixel think it is circular reasoning that does not make it so. It is a matter of mutually exclusive terms under Islamic doctrine.

 

[Calliope]

Where is the distortion?

Pixel nailed your position on “muslims” to a T, and you don't like it?

As I said Mac; "It is a common feature of posters whose arguments are going up a blind alley to ascribe this sort of twisted inference to the statements of those who do not agree with them".

You are the worst offender. However keep it coming, you are my biggest fan, and you give me plenty of laughs.

 

[Macquack]

With selective reading of the posts on this subject I can see how this conclusion might be reached. But just because you and pixel think it is circular reasoning that does not make it so. It is a matter of mutually exclusive terms under Islamic doctrine.

Where is the "selective reading"?

You said "It is simply that muslim and moderate muslim are mutually exclusive and it is the Qu'uran that has made it this way.

Therefore, you are concluding that a true muslim can not be a moderate, therefore all muslims are radicals.

 

[Macquack]

As I said Mac; "It is a common feature of posters whose arguments are going up a blind alley to ascribe this sort of twisted inference to the statements of those who do not agree with them".

You are the worst offender. However keep it coming, you are my biggest fan, and you give me plenty of laughs.

Yeah, I got you big time on that air con purchase.

 

[Bintang]

Where is the "selective reading"?

You said "It is simply that muslim and moderate muslim are mutually exclusive and it is the Qu'uran that has made it this way.

Therefore, you are concluding that a true muslim can not be a moderate, therefore all muslims are radicals.

How about you read my post #282 about the Ahmadiyyan Muslims in Indonesia.

I selected this case because there seems to be some general acceptance that Indonesian muslims represent the ‘moderate’ end of the spectrum.

The Ahmadiyyan muslims have rejected violent and fanatical beliefs and would have to be as moderate as you could get. But a huge majority of mainstream muslims in Indonesia (yes the ones who are supposed to be themselves the moderates) declared that the peaceful Ahmadiyyans are apostates. The end result is that this group of muslims in Indonesia has been persecuted for years and the Indonesian government has turned a blind eye. Many Ahmadiyyan muslim homes, businesses and mosques have been destroyed over the years and individuals have been subjected to violence and sometimes killed. All because the so-called ‘moderate muslims’ object to the Ahmadiyyan muslims being genuinely moderate.

So if genuinely moderate muslims can be regarded as apostates by mainstream muslims and the Kuran is used to justify this how can the mainstream muslims also be called moderate?

This nails the argument to a ‘T’

 

[DB008]

Saw this...

Agree or disagree??

 

[Bintang]

Saw this...

Agree or disagree??

From a Western perspective I agree. From an Islamic perspective I would disagree.

 

[DB008]

Just saw this on Reddit. I don't watch SouthPark, but this is so true at the moment!

The end of the South Park episode 201 was censored. Here it is! It's message is all the more relevant today - [0:52] (youtube.com)

 

[Bintang]

Just saw this on Reddit. I don't watch SouthPark, but this is so true at the moment!

Especially the last statement, "The only true power is violence" and in the West we try to fight it with the power of political correctness and the gradual suppression of our freedom of speech". What a bunch of dummies we are.

 

[Bintang]

Shame on the BBC

I could not believe my ears last night while watching BBC World News Service.
They did a story on Germany’s anti-muslim PEGIDA movement and how its latest rally in Dresden was called off due to a threat of attack against its leaders.

The BBC presenter then said that despite the cancellation of the Dresden rally the Danish PEGIDA movement were currently going ahead with their planned rally in Copenhagen.
Presenter: “We are going over to Copenhagen now to show you the scene there.
Of course we are not bringing this to you live in case the protesters hold up something offensive.”

The scene that the BBC then showed was of an almost empty street with a few people holding candles. It could have been a few people walking home from carols by candle-light.

So I did some googling to try and find out what the scene really looked like.
If you are interested you can see it here.
http://www.epa.eu/politics-photos/citizens-initiative-recall-photos/demonstration-of-danish-pegida-in-copenhagen-photos-51746746

 

[Calliope]

It's all about "blasphemy" right? If only the decent people of the world could refrain from uttering words that Islamists consider "blasphemous" then we would have universal peace on earth and good will toward all men. It doesn't seem too much to ask does it? President Obama, Chancellor Merkel and President Hollande of France have already adopted this policy by sensibly refusing to associate terrorism with Islam.

I don't see why we lesser mortals can't sacrifice some freedom of speech for the common good. Section 18C already shows the way and it has the support of all Australians left of centre. We mustn't give in to the red-necks.

Did someone say"what about ISIS"? Another simple solution. It only requires those opposing them to convert to Sunni...problem solved.

 

[SirRumpole]

Especially the last statement, "The only true power is violence" and in the West we try to fight it with the power of political correctness and the gradual suppression of our freedom of speech". What a bunch of dummies we are.

You do know that our troops are fighting ISIS in Syria don't you ?

 

[moXJO]

You do know that our troops are fighting ISIS in Syria don't you ?

Huh???
When did we go into Syria?