The Voice

[rederob]

Dutton's Media Statement
Dutton cannot see it is he who is dividing our nation (see @ 0:30 below), and not Albanese. This is not Albanese's Voice, as Dutton claims. It came into being under the Coalition government and they then stalled its implementation. Now, for all intents and purposes they have destroyed the mechanism that was pivotal to a chance for real change. Moreover Sussan Ley at 2:05 (below) does not seem to understand the referendum question as Dutton's intent turns the Liberal's position to a "no" vote.

Dutton's stance retains the status quo by denying formal representation to the federal parliament.
Dutton and Ley don't seem to get the irony of their subsequent remarks as they had nearly 10 years to close the gap and achieved sfa.
Dutton - @ 10:45 - also fails to understand the mechanics of the Voice by saying Albanese excludes a local and regional Voice. If that were the case then Albo would have stopped the SA Parliaments recent Voice legislation.
I'll stop at this point as Dutton just digs himself a deeper hole in response to questions.

 

[mullokintyre]

For those who think the voice consultation process will have no bearing on the rest of Australia, one only has to look at what is happening over the Santos Barossa gas field.
From Evil Murdoch Press

Major Australian and international banks face human rights complaints from traditional owners over funding a $1.5bn loan for Santos’ Barossa offshore project in the Timor Sea.
Seven traditional owners have lodged complaints against the big banks and a raft of international financiers over human rights concerns, saying Santos failed to adequately consult the affected Tiwi communities about the impacts of the Barossa project and there was therefore no free, prior and informed consent - a key human right for traditional owners.

“ANZ and other banks should have undertaken due diligence and never funded Santos,” the statement released on Tuesday said.
The traditional owners include Dennis Tipakalippa, who prevailed in a federal-court case in September that found Santos had erred with the project and not held adequate talks with indigenous people about the development.

That decision caused upheaval across Australia‘s offshore oil and gas industry and raised concern over the permitting process for the development of new gas supplies.

The Barossa gas field, 300km north of Darwin, is being developed as a source of gas to keep Santos‘ Darwin LNG plant running with Japanese and South Korean gas companies among the investors in the project.

ANZ bank, one of the banks receiving the complaint, contributed the equal highest amount of $US65m ($97m) to the $US1bn loan and reportedly arranged it with the Commonwealth Bank of Australia (CBA) and Japan’s largest bank, MUFG, each earning $US2.5m ($3.7m) in fees, according to the statement released.

Therese Wokai Bourke, a Malawu clan leader filing the complaint, stated: “We want the banks to rethink what they’re doing and stop investing in companies that are destroying our world and environment. Banks are enabling Santos to continue doing what they are doing without any care about our human rights and what they’re doing to the environment we live in.”

The $US3.6bn project is a key development in a tightening global market, Santos chief executive Kevin Gallagher has said.

The Environmental Defenders Office said at the time the decision “sends a message to all gas companies that they cannot sideline First Nations people.” It previously said in September the ruling was a huge victory and would have global implications for consultation with First Nations people on resource projects.

Failed to adequately consult.
I would not be at all surprised to see this phrase become somewhat more frequently used by the opponents of everything that produces income.
Mick

 

[rederob]

For those who think the voice consultation process will have no bearing on the rest of Australia, one only has to look at what is happening over the Santos Barossa gas field.

Those processes have absolutely nothing to do with the Voice.
You still have not worked this out!

Are you happy to scaremonger or are you just incompetent and think you have a valid point?

 

[SirRumpole]

Those processes have absolutely nothing to do with the Voice.
You still have not worked this out!

Are you happy to scaremonger or are you just incompetent and think you have a valid point?

It's a valid example of the quagmire that we will be in if the Voice feels it hasn't got what they want.

It's a danger that you willfully dismiss because of your ideological position.

Try to think rationally for a change instead of getting all emotional.

 

[rederob]

It's a valid example of the quagmire that we will be in if the Voice feels it hasn't got what they want.

Arrant nonsense!
You keep confusing existing laws with what is yet to be.

It's a danger that you willfully dismiss because of your ideological position.

No, it's a position based on the facts that relate to what the Voice is about.
I haven't found anything you said to date to be particularly relevant to the Voice... just a lot of baseless opinions, ignorance and bigotry.

Try to think rationally for a change instead of getting all emotional.

You know that's not an argument, don't you?
Apart from being untrue as I have consistently pointed out what you and others don't or won't understand. I even had to tell you why a question you asked should never have to be asked because you failed basic English comprehension.

 

[SirRumpole]

Arrant nonsense!
You keep confusing existing laws with what is yet to be.

No, it's a position based on the facts that relate to what the Voice is about.
I haven't found anything you said to date to be particularly relevant to the Voice... just a lot of baseless opinions, ignorance and bigotry.

You know that's not an argument, don't you?
Apart from being untrue as I have consistently pointed out what you and others don't or won't understand. I even had to tell you why a question you asked should never have to be asked because you failed basic English comprehension.

And you think insult is a substitute for argument !

So sad.

 

[rederob]

And you think insult is a substitute for argument !

Your posts on this topic - and you are not alone - have consistently shown an ignorance of the subject.
How about stumping up with something that is actually about what the Voice will do that you disagree with and can substantiate.

The Voice does not affect rights.
The Voice does not affect existing legislation.
The Voice is not "racist."
The Voice does not "negotiate" anything.
The Voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government on ATSI matters.
The Voice has no right of access to the Public Service or its agencies beyond what the Parliament may determine from time to time.
The ambit of the Voice is ATSI matters alone.

Edit: The lying and deceitful Dutton today ensured there were no ATSI flags in the background as he claimed his good intentions on the Voice at today's media event. His words could not be more empty.

 

[bk1]

This is not Albanese's Voice,

What planet are you on?

Who is bringing it before parliament? (The sovereign body democratically elected by the people of Australia)
Who's crying over it?
Who feels (The Voice) is a chance to feel good about themselves and by extension the Australian people?


#Never was, never will be

 

[IFocus]

What planet are you on?

Who is bringing it before parliament? (The sovereign body democratically elected by the people of Australia)
Who's crying over it?
Who feels (The Voice) is a chance to feel good about themselves and by extension the Australian people?


#Never was, never will be

Sigh... its been in the works for some time during previous governments put up to cabinet at least twice during the Morrison term needless to say the lazy Liberals failed to act.

Now Dutton says recognition good Voice bad go figure.

 

[rederob]

What planet are you on?

The one where the most consultative process ever amongst first nations peoples occurred to bring about the Uluru Statement from the Heart.

Who is bringing it before parliament?

The Coalition was supposed to but they were too divided.
Albanese made it an election platform for Labor, so it's a promise to electors... that is the Australian people you mentioned, and it's a promise being kept.

Who's crying over it?

Please tell us.

Who feels (The Voice) is a chance to feel good about themselves and by extension the Australian people?

I don't know.
If I vote yes I will recognise ATSI people who were here tens of thousands of years before white settlers as our First People. That's just an outright fact so nothing special there.
WRT the Voice, we get a body that ATSI people themselves propose be their representatives in a political system that until now has been responsible for their dispossession and decimation.
So unless you are ATSI this is not about you, and not about you feeling good about yourself. It's an opportunity to give ATSI people a say that will actually be heard. The Voice once and for all ends the lip service and false claims from politicians about how they are all the time improving life for ATSI people.
The Voice empowers ATSI people to take responsibility for their own welfare, with real support from those arms of government that have consistently let them down, but now have to listen to ideas that can change that.

 

[SirRumpole]

The Voice empowers ATSI people to take responsibility for their own welfare

They have always had that power, they just didn't use it .

Responsibility for their own welfare implies doing things for themselves and not relying on others including governments.

 

[Sean K]

For those who think the voice consultation process will have no bearing on the rest of Australia, one only has to look at what is happening over the Santos Barossa gas field.
From Evil Murdoch Press

Failed to adequately consult.
I would not be at all surprised to see this phrase become somewhat more frequently used by the opponents of everything that produces income.
Mick

Because the Tiwi Islanders regularly sailed 300km north of their island and dived to 2km depth to honour the floor of the ocean. You know it makes sense.

 

[basilio]

 

[SirRumpole]

View attachment 155456

News Corp is not guaranteed existence in the Constitution.

 

[JohnDe]

News Corp is not guaranteed existence in the Constitution.

Funny how tribalism is still part of the human DNA. We have one tribal group throwing mud at media groups like News Corp and those that use it, then we have another tribal group doing the same for ABC and its users. These turn into blinded fools that cannot see that there is more than just two tribes, that there are people able to look at all the news groups, think, rationalise and discuss what they have found, and make up their own mind.

No single news organisation is perfect, and anyone that believes that a democracy can operate with only one is a fool.

 

[rederob]

They have always had that power, they just didn't use it .

Why are you full of baseless excuses?
The fact is they never had this power, and that's why they proposed a Voice.

Responsibility for their own welfare implies doing things for themselves and not relying on others including governments.

Exactly how do they get infrastructure, housing, health, education, and police to remote communities?
Your comments in this thread reflect an utter lack of understanding of just about everything ATSI related.

 

[SirRumpole]

Why are you full of baseless excuses?
The fact is they never had this power, and that's why they proposed a Voice.

Everyone has the power to approach politicians or communicate with them. I have written to the PM a number of times.

ATSI people can make appointments with the appropriate Ministers if they have sufficient concerns the same as anyone else, or take their case to the media.

The point is that they don't need a Constitutional voice to express their concerns.

Exactly how do they get infrastructure, health, education, and police to remote communities?

Well, that is the real problem.


If ATSI people or anyone else want to live in remote communities they have to expect less services than in the big cities, it's a matter of how much the government can afford to spend on a few people.

 

[Knobby22]

There are quite a few upset Liberals. They think they are becoming known as the reactionary party.

Ken Whyatt has resigned. Tassy Premier has gone with the voice.
Many other senior Liberals are very upset. Kathryn Greiner was withering in her attack.

I think Dutton's leadership is finished. He will be gone within a year.

 

[SirRumpole]

There are quite a few upset Liberals. They think they are becoming known as the reactionary party.

Ken Whyatt has resigned. Tassy Premier has gone with the voice.
Many other senior Liberals are very upset. Kathryn Greiner was withering in her attack.

I think Dutton's leadership is finished. He will be gone within a year.

Not just his fault. If the rest of the Party disagreed, they should have told him.

If he knew he was outnumbered he would have shut up and gone with the flow.

They all have to bear the brunt of their own decisions.

 

[Smurf1976]

The Voice empowers ATSI people to take responsibility for their own welfare, with real support from those arms of government that have consistently let them down

Taking a neutral position here but it could be argued that the same issues also apply in other contexts.

I can recall incidents of regions or the smaller population states being affected by and resenting the colonial "we know best" approach emanating from self-appointed experts in Sydney or Melbourne whom already seem to have an extremely effective "voice" to our federal politicians.

The basic concept isn't unique to Aboriginals.