The Voice

[Knobby22]

And how will a treaty fix that problem?

Ask Mundine. I am sure he will say it will.

 

[wayneL]

Ask Mundine. I am sure he will say it will.

I asked you, and if I may posit an answer in advance, it won't.

 

[Knobby22]

I asked you, and if I may posit an answer in advance, it won't.

I didn't say a treaty would solve it. Didn't even say I am for it.
I am sure if you say, give them enough money, they could build a massive complex like occurs in Doha, and then use foreign (to them) labour to clean the streets. I dunno.

But the voice is obviously not enough to keep Mundine (or Price) happy.

 

[mullokintyre]

Regardless of what forms the voice, a treaty, a truth telling commission looks like, in the end the problems that many Aboriginal people face have got to come from within the aboriginal family themselves.
If the voice gets up, what will it propose via its communications to executive government to fix the poor school attendance, the poor hygiene, the huge amounts of alcohol consumed by them, the high level of domestic violence, the high level of violence towards first responders (police, fireman, nurses, doctors, paramedics) , the extremely poor dietary habits, the total lack of responsibility for their kids behaviour etc.
Throwing more money will not be the solution, nor will ceding sovereignity to Aboriginals solve these issues, whether its creating a white led bureacracy, or giving it to traditional owners/elders, very little filters down the ones at the bottom.
History is a great teacher, but sometimes we refuse to learn.
mick

 

[macca]

Your views are out of step with people like Megan Davis, who I suggest is more likely to end up on The Voice than you are.

She reckons it should be able to talk about and be consulted on anything the Voice wants to be consulted on, backed with Constitutional Right to be consulted that no other lobby group has.

Ignore facts if you want to. You say you worked for ATSIC and that ended in a complete fiasco, I have no confidence that any replacement body would fare any better.

How do we get on if we have nuclear subs and the Voice decides that the waters of Australia are sacred and will not allow nuclear ships to enter their "sacred waters"

At present I think the High Court may well uphold a non nuclear stance

 

[Sean K]

How do we get on if we have nuclear subs and the Voice decides that the waters of Australia are sacred and will not allow nuclear ships to enter their "sacred waters"

At present I think the High Court may well uphold a non nuclear stance

I'm not sure about Defence assets, but you point out a very real concern with anything else in the ocean within boundaries 'traditionally owned' by certain clans. For eg, what happened in the case off the NW recently with an elder not being consulted prior to decision on an O&G project. Just how far out do these traditional waters go? Could be as far as the Nine Dash Line for all we know. Will we be allowed to surf, fish, swim, dive, boat, anywhere without paying a fee?

 

[Sean K]

Regardless of what forms the voice, a treaty, a truth telling commission looks like, in the end the problems that many Aboriginal people face have got to come from within the aboriginal family themselves.
If the voice gets up, what will it propose via its communications to executive government to fix the poor school attendance, the poor hygiene, the huge amounts of alcohol consumed by them, the high level of domestic violence, the high level of violence towards first responders (police, fireman, nurses, doctors, paramedics) , the extremely poor dietary habits, the total lack of responsibility for their kids behaviour etc.
Throwing more money will not be the solution, nor will ceding sovereignity to Aboriginals solve these issues, whether its creating a white led bureacracy, or giving it to traditional owners/elders, very little filters down the ones at the bottom.
History is a great teacher, but sometimes we refuse to learn.
mick

Let's be real and acknowledge this will do nothing for outback communities or those in the larger towns, and only be fluffing the nests of elites in the multitude of already established ATSI bodies and their activist lawyers. As Price pointed out from the start, this will only be a gravy train and have zero effect on what's actually required to close the gap.

 

[rederob]

Let's be real and acknowledge this will do nothing for outback communities or those in the larger towns,..

If that's the case why was it these groups who were instrumental in putting together what is proposed?
Add to that the fact that you again do not understand how the Voice will work, as your point has been many times debunked.

and only be fluffing the nests of elites in the multitude of already established ATSI bodies and their activist lawyers.

More of the same rubbish, with zero to back it up except bigotry.

As Price pointed out from the start, this will only be a gravy train and have zero effect on what's actually required to close the gap.

As if Price has a clue!
What were her solutions seeing she is a first nations person who was in a position to change things as she rose through the ranks?
The former government had almost 10 years to close the gap and achieved sfa.
Also, the idea there is a gravy train to be on is absolutely laughable and typical of the inability of some here to be able to actually present a case that is not otherwise full of dribble.

This thread is full of scare mongering and irrelevant side tracks.
@mullokintyre asks "If the voice gets up, what will it propose via its communications to executive government to fix" so many things. The answer is that for once there will be a ground up opportunity for each and every mob to offer potential solutions, and they will get heard at the level of government that affects policy making.
Although the Voice does not suggest first nations peoples take ownership of their problems, it does mean they have to take ownership of their solutions. In that respect they will have a vested interest in their own betterment. And that has to be an improvement over the failed approaches to date.

 

[IFocus]

Let's be real and acknowledge this will do nothing for outback communities or those in the larger towns, and only be fluffing the nests of elites in the multitude of already established ATSI bodies and their activist lawyers. As Price pointed out from the start, this will only be a gravy train and have zero effect on what's actually required to close the gap.

Oh for gods sake get a grip man and read the intent of the Voice not fu(king Murdoch.

Its nothing like or even close to your and other comments made here seriously.

It will come down to what is passed through parliament and made public unlike now.

The public will be able to scrutineer how it functions etc unlike now.

The gap report each year will be able to reference the voice...yep unlike now.

Geeezus its such a modest proposal as to what should happen (which and your cohort (mean that in the nicest way) would oppose).

Sigh, sorry if any feelings were harmed in this exchange.

 

[wayneL]

Oh for gods sake get a grip man and read the intent of the Voice not fu(king Murdoch.

Its nothing like or even close to your and other comments made here seriously.

It will come down to what is passed through parliament and made public unlike now.

The public will be able to scrutineer how it functions etc unlike now.

The gap report each year will be able to reference the voice...yep unlike now.

Geeezus its such a modest proposal as to what should happen (which and your cohort (mean that in the nicest way) would oppose).

Sigh, sorry if any feelings were harmed in this exchange.

Naive^^

 

[SirRumpole]

Oh for gods sake get a grip man and read the intent of the Voice not fu(king Murdoch.

Its nothing like or even close to your and other comments made here seriously.

It will come down to what is passed through parliament and made public unlike now.

The public will be able to scrutineer how it functions etc unlike now.

The gap report each year will be able to reference the voice...yep unlike now.

Geeezus its such a modest proposal as to what should happen (which and your cohort (mean that in the nicest way) would oppose).

Sigh, sorry if any feelings were harmed in this exchange.

If people like Lydia Thorpe end up sitting on The Voice, government will be disrupted indefinitely.

 

[Sean K]

Oh for gods sake get a grip man and read the intent of the Voice not fu(king Murdoch.

Its nothing like or even close to your and other comments made here seriously.

It will come down to what is passed through parliament and made public unlike now.

The public will be able to scrutineer how it functions etc unlike now.

The gap report each year will be able to reference the voice...yep unlike now.

Geeezus its such a modest proposal as to what should happen (which and your cohort (mean that in the nicest way) would oppose).

Sigh, sorry if any feelings were harmed in this exchange.

Not me. You're way off on this one. I guess we'll all know if it gets up. Sorry you're so emotional about this.

 

[IFocus]

Not me. You're way off on this one. I guess we'll all know if it gets up. Sorry you're so emotional about this.

You are all intelligent people yet fail to get pass institutionalized bias regarding 1st nations.

The arguments against being made fail basic logic / understanding or lack of reading of the proposal and the reasons for it.

Drives me nuts.

 

[mullokintyre]

You are all intelligent people yet fail to get pass institutionalized bias regarding 1st nations.

The arguments against being made fail basic logic / understanding or lack of reading of the proposal and the reasons for it.

Drives me nuts.

Geez, you are sounding like red rob.
Everyone else is wrong because they lack understanding, suffer institutionalised bias, and fail basic logic.
You don't think by any chance a small glance in the mirror is warranted?
Mick

 

[IFocus]

Geez, you are sounding like red rob.
Everyone else is wrong because they lack understanding, suffer institutionalised bias, and fail basic logic.
You don't think by any chance a small glance in the mirror is warranted?
Mick

Mick I do look in the mirror regularly happy to report best looking rooster ever... no bias ?

 

[wayneL]

You are all intelligent people yet fail to get pass institutionalized bias regarding 1st nations.

The arguments against being made fail basic logic / understanding or lack of reading of the proposal and the reasons for it.

Drives me nuts.

Why should one person who was born in this country have more rights than another person who was born in this country, or indeed has immigrated to this country and made a commitment by becoming a citizen?

All these things are an accident of birth and have no bearing on a persons contribution today current community.

 

[Sean K]

You are all intelligent people yet fail to get pass institutionalized bias regarding 1st nations.

The arguments against being made fail basic logic / understanding or lack of reading of the proposal and the reasons for it.

Drives me nuts.

You're going to look like a galah when the first case goes to the High Court.

 

[SirRumpole]

Mick I do look in the mirror regularly happy to report best looking rooster ever... no bias ?

IFocus, you are a very reasonable person. There are two sides to this debate, the emotional one and the pragmatic one. The feelings seem split between both approaches, both have a degree of credibility,I think it comes down to the dominant side of our brains.

 

[IFocus]

You're going to look like a galah when the first case goes to the High Court.

To late I already do, if in the unlikely case some aspect of the Voice goes to the high court then it will get sorted same as the Eddie Mabo case did as yet the sky hasn't fallen in.

The Mabo case had further reaching aspects than the Voice ever will.

 

[IFocus]

Why should one person who was born in this country have more rights than another person who was born in this country, or indeed has immigrated to this country and made a commitment by becoming a citizen?

All these things are an accident of birth and have no bearing on a persons contribution today current community.

The example fails to address the issues, fails to address the injustices of the past, fails to change the status and recognition of 1st nations.

The example is a false equiveillance is it not?