The Voice

[SirRumpole]

Agree on the education, jobs and positive future thing that should start to close the gap.

But, you don’t get that by living under a tree in the remote outback.

So, while Aboriginals want to maintain their ancient lifestyle by hunting and gathering, there will always be a huge gap. This is common across the World, not just here. Europe developed, they conquered the World through colonialism, we went through the industrial revolution that brought us out of poverty, but indigenous people got left behind everywhere. Maybe that was by design, but it’s been 300-400 years now. They have got to see that the future is not living in mud huts or under a tree and burning dung to cook a rodent. They’ve got to join in eventually.

I doubt if many or even any do that.

Being paid to drink all day is a much better job.

Interesting to see how many homes that "need repairs" are the result of willful destruction, but I doubt if that sort of inconvenient data will make it into the media.

 

[sptrawler]

I have grown up, lived and worked with them, there is no chance of getting them out of the riverbed, if there are no jobs for them to do in the towns.
That's why I said a while back a lot of the public service and housing work in these areas needs to be put back in to the public sector.
The social housing in these places is in a shocking state and more needs to be built, the roads, parks, waste collection.
We are paying a fortune anyway, re focus the work to the local community and use affirmative action to give the kids jobs, skills etc.
If it was LBGTQIA people living there in the creek, something sensible would be done in an instant.

 

[SirRumpole]

I have grown up, lived and worked with them, there is no chance of getting them out of the riverbed, if there are no jobs for them to do in the towns.
That's why I said a while back a lot of the public service and housing work in these areas needs to be put back in to the public sector.
The social housing in these places is in a shocking state and more needs to be built, the roads, parks, waste collection.
We are paying a fortune anyway, re focus the work to the local community and use affirmative action to give the kids jobs, skills etc.
If it was LBGTQIA people living there in the creek, something sensible would be done in an instant.

You are right, the indigenous people need jobs, training and skills instead of handouts.

It's the only way to bring them into the mainstream. Being isolated in the back blocks is unsustainable in the long term.

 

[sptrawler]

You are right, the indigenous people need jobs, training and skills instead of handouts.

It's the only way to bring them into the mainstream. Being isolated in the back blocks is unsustainable in the long term.

All that will happen is the spiral down will increase, the health problems will increase, the discontent, the social unrest, the incarceration rate, the inter racial violence, will all increase unless we actually put in place community based work and reward.
The tragedy is, Pollies are as smart or smarter than us, yet they ignore the obvious and cheer squads support them.
Anyway, time to let it go, it just depresses me.

 

[Sean K]

I doubt if many or even any do that.

Being paid to drink all day is a much better job.

Interesting to see how many homes that "need repairs" are the result of willful destruction, but I doubt if that sort of inconvenient data will make it into the media.

I might have been referring to the Quechua people in the Andes in regard to your highlighted bits, but no different to eating grubs out of a tree I suppose. There are better forms of protein that we’ve known about for some time.

 

[sptrawler]

You are right, the indigenous people need jobs, training and skills instead of handouts.

It's the only way to bring them into the mainstream. Being isolated in the back blocks is unsustainable in the long term.

The other thing is, there is a lot of money in keeping things as they are, if the aboriginals didnt live in these towns, the towns would probably close, so the Govt giving them welfare that they spend in the towns in a way keeps the towns going.

In the 1960's mining companies were forced to build towns, to help build Australia, then in the late 80's early 90's the Govt introduced fringe benefit tax on the houses, so FIFO started and the houses were sold off so they became derelect towns in downturns.

Who knows, maybe everyone is ok with the way things roll.

 

[Knobby22]

The elders want the kids to break the cycle, prohabition hasnt worked before, they just find ways of sourcing the grog from other people, or bring it in from other areas by the ute load, or go back to petrol sniffing.
Everyone dances around the issues and come up with band aid easy answers, then walk away whistling, it is an embarasment the way it is being dealt with.
Well let's be honest, the issue isn't being dealt with, the symptoms are, as usual.
Also isn't banning grog from aboriginals discriminatory? Take the welfare card off them, because it infers that they can't control their spending and treats them like children.
Then put in place bans on what they can spend their money on and treat them like children. Priceless.

All good reasons to tell the elders that the grog laws can't be improved and nothing will be done. Your talents are wasted. The government needs you.

 

[sptrawler]

Well it sounds as though South Australia have taken the initiative down to grass roots level.

Cheers for SA Voice, as legislation for First Nations representation goes to parliament

While it is not yet in effect, South Australia's state-based First Nations Voice is already generating noise, with cheers and applause greeting the introduction of the legislation underpinning it.

www.abc.net.au

Canberra wont be happy, what actually having the States decide what is best for their State, you can't have that, that's undemocratic. ?

 

[sptrawler]

All good reasons to tell the elders that the grog laws can't be improved and nothing will be done. Your talents are wasted. The government needs you.

No need to get catty. ?

The Aboriginals have only been allowed to drink since the 1960's, then we banned them, then we lifted the bans, now we ban them again and all you can do is get sarcastic.
I in no way think I have the answers, but it is obvious that constantly just repeating the same action over and over, wont change the result.

Still I suppose it's better than cancelling me.

 

[wayneL]

Still I suppose it's better than cancelling me.

Assumptions:

White
Hetro male
Pom
Middle --> aged

Oh mate! You are*so cancelled!

 

[Knobby22]

No need to get catty. ?

The Aboriginals were only allowed to drink since the 1960's, then we banned them, then we lifted the bans, now we ban them again and all you can do is get sarcastic.

Still I suppose it's better than cancelling me.

Like I said though, the aboriginal elders who asked for better alcohol laws in Alice Springs (which you must agree are pretty useless) are dreaming.

Everyone has reasons why we can't do things. We need people that do things! I am a solutions person, need to be in my job. Sorry I was a bit sarcastic. Nothing to do with being cancelled. Everything isn't culture wars.

 

[sptrawler]

Like I said though, the aboriginal elders who asked for better alcohol laws in Alice Springs (which you must agree are pretty useless) are dreaming.

Everyone has reasons why we can't do things. We need people that do things! I am a solutions person, need to be in my job. Sorry I was a bit sarcastic. Nothing to do with being cancelled. Everything isn't culture wars.

Yes I know, it is all just so frustrating, people in planet Canberra deciding the future of all of us.
Anyway I just have to let it go.?

 

[IFocus]

An inconvenient truth, hopefully something more than words, rorts and corruption comes out of the voice.

As I've said enough times already, the only way to break the cycle, is to give the kids jobs, opportunities, trades and a future.
Lip service is the last thing they need, what they need is meaningful work and purpose.
Also by the way, I have spent a fair bit of time in Laverton, staying in the pub and working on their power station, just in case anyone is wondering.

8 Feb 2023

On a Tuesday in this remote town, 20 people are waiting for the bottle-o to open at midday

While Alice Springs is in the national spotlight, temporary liquor restrictions have been introduced in the small West Australian town of Laverton amid ongoing concerns about violence.

www.abc.net.au

SP did you spend any time in Wiluna with County Undertakings?

Remember what the Wiluna pub looked like from outside (early80's)

Thought Laverton was very tame compared to Wiluna.

Interesting how much has been done as suggest by yourself and others all already and failed.

Wiluna had a program called Deseret Gold I think jobs employment etc.

 

[wayneL]

SP did you spend any time in Wiluna with County Undertakings?

Remember what the Wiluna pub looked like from outside (early80's)

Thought Laverton was very tame compared to Wiluna.

Interesting how much has been done as suggest by yourself and others all already and failed.

Wiluna had a program called Deseret Gold I think jobs employment etc.

Just like everyone I am fully on board with offering opportunities and jobs to improve the plight of the indigenous.

Unfortunately it doesn't stop there.

We can see with whitefella, after the Covid nonsense, that there must be more impetus than a job and a wage.

So, we can offer opportunities, jobs, and wages to the indigenous, but what can we do to encourage their updake?

I have a family friend with experience in this field. It was a failure, they just didn't want to take up the opportunity.

Maybe the opportunity was wrong, I don't know, but I do know that yhe solution is far more complex than being presented by most, especially Voicesists.

 

[Knobby22]

Just like everyone I am fully on board with offering opportunities and jobs to improve the plight of the indigenous.

Unfortunately it doesn't stop there.

We can see with whitefella, after the Covid nonsense, that there must be more impetus than a job and a wage.

So, we can offer opportunities, jobs, and wages to the indigenous, but what can we do to encourage their updake?

I have a family friend with experience in this field. It was a failure, they just didn't want to take up the opportunity.

Maybe the opportunity was wrong, I don't know, but I do know that yhe solution is far more complex than being presented by most, especially Voicesists.

The Voice isnt a solution. It is an incremental change.

 

[IFocus]

I don't know.

Exactly, no one commenting here has any idea and I include myself.

As I have already said else where I have worked, lived, hunted, fished with indigenous for 5 years or more and after all that I was even more baffled about the problems.

More white fella telling indigenous how to live wont change SFA.

 

[wayneL]

The Voice isnt a solution. It is an incremental change.

To achieve what? Which increment does it seek to solve?

Unless we can answer these questions it is a very farken expensive quango that will achieve nothing.

 

[Sean K]

What’s the reason that The Voice yes case is being rolled out in schools? Kids can’t vote on it. Is it similar to why teachers in primary school are teaching CAGW?

 

[sptrawler]

SP did you spend any time in Wiluna with County Undertakings?

Remember what the Wiluna pub looked like from outside (early80's)

Thought Laverton was very tame compared to Wiluna.

Interesting how much has been done as suggest by yourself and others all already and failed.

Wiluna had a program called Deseret Gold I think jobs employment etc.

Yes I put a unit in at Wiluna and installed auto synch on all the units, the place had two pubs the Club hotel, near the school and the Lake Way hotel at the start of the gunbarrel highway over the road from the power station. The Lake Way wasn't operating and was given to the locals as a cultural center, but ended up being demolished in the early 1980's.
It certainly was a wild place, one time the work crew were treed up on the balcony of the club hotel, because one of the guys went into the front bar and put some money in the jukebox the locals didn't like it.
The whites had to stay in the small back bar.
I was talking to a young barman there, he had a strong pommie accent, I asked him how he was enjoying it and how long he had been in Australia.
He said he had been hit with a stool, stabbed and speared and he had come straight from the U.K two weeks earlier. We all had a great laugh at that, imagine coming straight from London to Wiluna. ?
About 10km down the gunbarrel there was an aboriginal department run orange plantation and emu farm, another venture. that starts, falls over and starts again.
Definitely not one of the places I want to re visit. I'll have a look through my old photo's on the weekend, see if I can find a picture.

A bit of a read on the orange farm back in the 80's.

https://voice.niaa.gov.au/sites/default/files/submissions/d0144c67310a6-Paquita%20Boston%20sbm1654a1011ed293140cb75_clean.pdf

 

[Knobby22]

To achieve what? Which increment does it seek to solve?

Unless we can answer these questions it is a very farken expensive quango that will achieve nothing.

That is literally what it is and how it is described.

It just forces the government to ask the aboriginal community their opinion on a government decision affecting them (which can be ignored).

It is only an incremental change relating to procedure.
Words matter.

Many aboriginal activists are with you that it's not enough to be worth it.