The Voice

[sptrawler]

A pretty sober and pragmatic case for a NO vote from Maurice Newman in The Spectator.

Why you should vote No to the Voice | The Spectator Australia

Stan Grant has worked as a television news and political journalist since the 1990s. He is the Charles Sturt University vice-chancellor’s chair of Australian Indigenous Belonging, is an ambassador of…

www.spectator.com.au

Great article, IMO the last paragraph nailed it.

Even if unpalatable for power-seekers, the solution is obvious and inescapable. Emancipation is inextricably linked to education, jobs and assimilation into modern society.

How much suffering will it take?

 

[Macquack]

l'll be voting no

And if the "Yes" vote gets up, you will claim the referendum was rigged. Another win-win for DB.

 

[IFocus]

Great article, IMO the last paragraph nailed it.

Even if unpalatable for power-seekers, the solution is obvious and inescapable. Emancipation is inextricably linked to education, jobs and assimilation into modern society.

How much suffering will it take?

Read that very conservative view with no answers to the complexities of the problem and a soft attack piece on Stand Grant.

If it was all so simple as he promulgates then why are we here?

If you read Newmans bio then you will see he has strong opinions but not idea unfortunately.

He has served on boards most his life with no lived experience.

Throw aggressive denial of climate change in....

 

[sptrawler]

Read that very conservative view with no answers to the complexities of the problem and a soft attack piece on Stand Grant.

If it was all so simple as he promulgates then why are we here?

If you read Newmans bio then you will see he has strong opinions but not idea unfortunately.

He has served on boards most his life with no lived experience.

Throw aggressive denial of climate change in....

I guess after 60 years of seeing the wash rinse repeat, I'm just disappointed, as I said the Alice Springs issue was an ideal opportunity to introduce some meaningful initiatives and what did we get more of the same old same old.
Discrimination by prohibition and yet more money thrown at the symptoms, funnily enough with Albo I expected better.
It just highlights to me, that Canberra is just a place of musical chairs.
I wish I was like some others, who are happy just to be associated and aligned with a political party, it may give me a light of hope.
But I'm not and I haven't.
Criticising the author for him highlighting the impotency of what is being done, is just agreeing that nothing that should be done, will be done and we will just put it back in the too hard basket by calling it a complex issue.
That sounds very public service, use todays go to answer, cancel the critic.

As for no answers to the complex problems, as I said in an earlier post and as I posted later an Alice Springs Dr said exactly the same, they need more social housing, existing social housing requires repairing, the local aboriginal kids need work, join the dots it isn't that difficult.
Yet the Govt has announced they are going to give an extra $260m for support services, mental health, police, etc, people have put up alternative answers, but as is the way today, if it doesn't align with the narrative it is ignored completely.
$260m would supply and repair a lot of social housing in Alice Springs, it also might reduce the mental health issues, but the problem is it would take some lazy sod in Canberra to get off their ar$e and actually do something.

Just another example of political arrogance that is accepted by rusted on followers of both major parties, that's why nothing gets done other than lip service and more money is wasted while the aboriginals health plight worsens.
As the author said "how much suffering will it take"?
I'm ready, go ahead cancel me, I've got no life experience, I haven't been to uni and I was born in another country, so I obviously have no idea FFS.

 

[Knobby22]

As for no answers to the complex problems, as I said in an earlier post and as I posted later an Alice Springs Dr said exactly the same, they need more social housing, existing social housing requires repairing, the local aboriginal kids need work, join the dots it isn't that difficult.
as is the way today, if it doesn't align with the narrative it is ignored completely.

Just another example of political arrogance that is accepted by rusted on followers of both major parties, that's why nothing gets done

True.
Do you reckon the local aborigines should get a say as to what happens rather than the major political parties, somehow force them to listen? I mean they are making decisions about peoples lives from ivory towers in the big cities, tens of thousands of kilometres away.

We could call it a voice. What's the name of this thread again?

 

[SirRumpole]

Do you reckon the local aborigines should get a say as to what happens rather than the major political parties, somehow force them to listen? I mean they are making decisions about peoples lives from ivory towers in the big cities, tens of thousands of kilometres away.

Governments are making decisions that affect people's lives every day. Do they ask permission from us beforehand ?

They should but they usually don't.

It should be a normal part of government to ask stakeholder's views before they pass legislation, but that doesn't mean that one group should have a Constitutional right to be consulted while others don't.

 

[sptrawler]

True.
Do you reckon the local aborigines should get a say as to what happens rather than the major political parties, somehow force them to listen? I mean they are making decisions about peoples lives from ivory towers in the big cities, tens of thousands of kilometres away.

We could call it a voice. What's the name of this thread again?

What are you trying to say, that the aboriginals have been ignored, I mean seriously!!!

Let's be honest the issues haven't changed, why will a few more words written down make any stuffing difference?
They already have a voice, didn't the P.M just take a entourage to Alice Springs?
Didn't Kev apologies 14 years ago and say it was a new beginning, well was it? No, it was another pizz up in Canberra and another round of back slapping. Same as the recent Alice Springs debacle.

Way too much BS goes on, how about trying something other than words, that would be novel.

But it seems like words placate the inner city chardonnay sippers and obviously that's all that matters.

 

[Knobby22]

Governments are making decisions that affect people's lives every day. Do they ask permission from us beforehand ?

They should but they usually don't.

It should be a normal part of government to ask stakeholder's views before they pass legislation, but that doesn't mean that one group should have a Constitutional right to be consulted while others don't.

Not

What are you trying to say, that the aboriginals have been ignored, I mean seriously!!!

Let's be honest the issues haven't changed, why will a few more words written down make any stuffing difference? Didn't Kev apologies 14 years ago and say it was a new beginning, well was it, no, it was another piz up in Canberra and another round of back slapping.
Way too much BS goes on, how about trying something other than words, that would be novel.
But it seems like words placate the inner city chardonnay sippers and obviously that's all that matters.

Yea. Bad luck locals. It's up to the big wigs and Chardonnay guzzling crew to say what happens. Someone with a degree in anthropology or similar will decide. Maybe throw some more welfare at em. Worked before.

Just because they are indigenous and live in the bush they want to argue their case. Uppity Blackfellas. Next thing you guys will say we aren't doing an amazing job.

 

[SirRumpole]

Not

Yea. Bad luck locals. It's up to the big wigs and Chardonnay guzzling crew to say what happens. Someone with a degree in anthropology or similar will decide. Maybe throw some more welfare at em. Worked before.

Just because they are indigenous and live in the bush they want to argue their case. Uppity Blackfellas. Next thing you guys will say we aren't doing an amazing job.

So what is stopping politicians from asking the locals?

 

[Knobby22]

So what is stopping politicians from asking the locals?

They know better. Good old top down approach. They asked aboriginal communities all over Australia and most just wanted to have their opinion considered before doing the next plan.

And we want to tell them to forget about it.

 

[UMike]

Don't understand the end game of this racist setup.

 

[SirRumpole]

They know better. Good old top down approach. They asked aboriginal communities all over Australia and most just wanted to have their opinion considered before doing the next plan.

And we want to tell them to forget about it.

If the government wants to legislate an indigenous advisory body they can do so. It's been done before with ATSIC, just don't make the same mistakes again.

 

[Knobby22]

If the government wants to legislate an indigenous advisory body they can do so. It's been done before with ATSIC, just don't make the same mistakes again.

I am with Peter Dutton. Let's see rhe wording and make a decision then.

 

[mullokintyre]

So what is stopping politicians from asking the locals?

Rule no 2 in Politics.
Never ask a question unless you are prepared to not get the answer you want, and not like the answer you get.
Mick

 

[SirRumpole]

Rule no 2 in Politics.
Never ask a question unless you are prepared to not get the answer you want, and not like the answer you get.
Mick

What's rule no 1 ?

Winning is the only thing that matters ?

 

[sptrawler]

Rule number one don't do anything, that could cost you your seat on the gravy train. ?

 

[sptrawler]

An inconvenient truth, hopefully something more than words, rorts and corruption comes out of the voice.

As I've said enough times already, the only way to break the cycle, is to give the kids jobs, opportunities, trades and a future.
Lip service is the last thing they need, what they need is meaningful work and purpose.
Also by the way, I have spent a fair bit of time in Laverton, staying in the pub and working on their power station, just in case anyone is wondering.

8 Feb 2023

On a Tuesday in this remote town, 20 people are waiting for the bottle-o to open at midday

While Alice Springs is in the national spotlight, temporary liquor restrictions have been introduced in the small West Australian town of Laverton amid ongoing concerns about violence.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Knobby22]

An inconvenient truth, hopefully something more than words, rorts and corruption comes out of the voice.

As I've said enough times already, the only way to break the cycle, is to give the kids jobs, opportunities, trades and a future.
Lip service is the last thing they need, what they need is meaningful work and purpose.
Also by the way, I have spent a fair bit of time in Laverton, staying in the pub and working on their power station, just in case anyone is wondering.

8 Feb 2023

On a Tuesday in this remote town, 20 people are waiting for the bottle-o to open at midday

While Alice Springs is in the national spotlight, temporary liquor restrictions have been introduced in the small West Australian town of Laverton amid ongoing concerns about violence.

www.abc.net.au

Good article, notice the elders want tougher alcohol restrictions.
Dreamers.

 

[sptrawler]

Good article, notice the elders want tougher alcohol restrictions.
Dreamers.

The elders want the kids to break the cycle, prohabition hasnt worked before, they just find ways of sourcing the grog from other people, or bring it in from other areas by the ute load, or go back to petrol sniffing.
Everyone dances around the issues and come up with band aid easy answers, then walk away whistling, it is an embarasment the way it is being dealt with.
Well let's be honest, the issue isn't being dealt with, the symptoms are, as usual.
Also isn't banning grog from aboriginals discriminatory? Take the welfare card off them, because it infers that they can't control their spending and treats them like children.
Then put in place bans on what they can spend their money on and treat them like children. Priceless.

 

[Sean K]

An inconvenient truth, hopefully something more than words, rorts and corruption comes out of the voice.

As I've said enough times already, the only way to break the cycle, is to give the kids jobs, opportunities, trades and a future.
Lip service is the last thing they need, what they need is meaningful work and purpose.
Also by the way, I have spent a fair bit of time in Laverton, staying in the pub and working on their power station, just in case anyone is wondering.

8 Feb 2023

On a Tuesday in this remote town, 20 people are waiting for the bottle-o to open at midday

While Alice Springs is in the national spotlight, temporary liquor restrictions have been introduced in the small West Australian town of Laverton amid ongoing concerns about violence.

www.abc.net.au

Agree on the education, jobs and positive future thing that should start to close the gap.

But, you don’t get that by living under a tree in the remote outback.

So, while Aboriginals want to maintain their ancient lifestyle by hunting and gathering, there will always be a huge gap. This is common across the World, not just here. Europe developed, they conquered the World through colonialism, we went through the industrial revolution that brought us out of poverty, but indigenous people got left behind everywhere. Maybe that was by design, but it’s been 300-400 years now. They have got to see that the future is not living in mud huts or under a tree and burning dung to cook a rodent. They’ve got to join in eventually.