The Voice

[sptrawler]

The backpacker thing has been going on for years, it's no secret to any party. I suppose no Aussie is willing to pay $20 for a Banana so that a local can get a fair days pay.

As was proven during covid, when no backpackers were coming in, Australians wont do the job for that money so the fruit rotted on the ground.
The wages for backpackers is being lifted, the Governments tax take increases, some growers go to the wall. Life goes on.

This square is the average Australian salary – see how it compares to the size of planned tax cuts

The stage 3 tax cuts are too big to fit on a single screen. We had to get creative to put them into perspective.

www.abc.net.au

 

[IFocus]

As was proven during covid, when no backpackers were coming in, Australians wont do the job for that money so the fruit rotted on the ground.
The wages for backpackers is being lifted, the Governments tax take increases, some growers go to the wall. Life goes on.

Wasn't it wage theft and or shonky contractors ripping off backpackers not to mention the creepy touching up the girls etc?

Who in Australia wants to work for that?

Went on for ever Nats fought changes every inch of the way.

Besides Labor have legislation in parliament for wage theft and trying to sort out the rip offs running workers as contractors for slave labour rates plus dying on the job, being fought all the way by the Coalition.

 

[IFocus]

That's capitalism at its finest.
You don't find many tradies in the Qantas chairmans lounge, too busy working to pay the taxes to fund it.

Some one mention taxes?

Australia would be raising $70 billion a year from the carbon price if it wasn't dismantled, Ross Garnaut says​

Australia's government would be collecting $70 billion a year in revenue if the emissions trading scheme was still in place, economist Ross Garnaut says.

The problems at Qantas, and the explosion in executive remuneration this century, reflect a much more general problem in our economy, he adds.

And Australians have been "in denial" about increasing oligopoly in the economy.

But all of these things are connected, and we have an opportunity to pursue "transformational economic reform" by tackling them all at once, he argues.

Are our leaders willing to do so?

"We could pay for the nuclear submarines with five or six years of the carbon price. One year would pay for more than two years of Medicare.

"We could cut every personal tax rate by 30 per cent from the highest to the lowest.

"Some members of the Australian Parliament support raising the GST rate to pay for cuts in income tax rates. Re-introducing the European-linked carbon price would give all of the presumed benefits of a higher GST and efficiently reduce carbon emissions as a bonus," he said.

Australia would be raising $70 billion a year from the carbon price if it wasn't dismantled, Ross Garnaut says

Ross Garnaut says we have an opportunity to pursue "transformational economic reform" by tackling the rising problem of economic rents, writes Gareth Hutchens.

www.abc.net.au

 

[sptrawler]

Some one mention taxes?

Australia would be raising $70 billion a year from the carbon price if it wasn't dismantled, Ross Garnaut says​

Australia's government would be collecting $70 billion a year in revenue if the emissions trading scheme was still in place, economist Ross Garnaut says.

The problems at Qantas, and the explosion in executive remuneration this century, reflect a much more general problem in our economy, he adds.

And Australians have been "in denial" about increasing oligopoly in the economy.

But all of these things are connected, and we have an opportunity to pursue "transformational economic reform" by tackling them all at once, he argues.

Are our leaders willing to do so?

"We could pay for the nuclear submarines with five or six years of the carbon price. One year would pay for more than two years of Medicare.

"We could cut every personal tax rate by 30 per cent from the highest to the lowest.

"Some members of the Australian Parliament support raising the GST rate to pay for cuts in income tax rates. Re-introducing the European-linked carbon price would give all of the presumed benefits of a higher GST and efficiently reduce carbon emissions as a bonus," he said.

Australia would be raising $70 billion a year from the carbon price if it wasn't dismantled, Ross Garnaut says

Ross Garnaut says we have an opportunity to pursue "transformational economic reform" by tackling the rising problem of economic rents, writes Gareth Hutchens.

www.abc.net.au

Yes I've never heard anyone who suggested something, ever say there would be a down side, amazing that.
As if by magic, it is a win/win, like the price of electricity is going down, you know because renewables are cheaper.
Wont be long before we have to close the borders to oversea manufacturing start ups, wanting to get here for the cheap power.
As with most things, I like to hear both sides of an issue, I'm not one for echo chambers.
By the way Sydney has still got a desalination plant that still has run in anger, yet everyone was going to die of thirst before it was built, or so we were told.
Not that I'm saying it is wrong, just saying if the tax can make $70billion a year, enough to buy the subs, someone is paying it and that usually results in some unintended consequences, which amazingly were never foreseen and never allowed for.

 

[sptrawler]

Wasn't it wage theft and or shonky contractors ripping off backpackers not to mention the creepy touching up the girls etc?

Who in Australia wants to work for that?

Went on for ever Nats fought changes every inch of the way.

Besides Labor have legislation in parliament for wage theft and trying to sort out the rip offs running workers as contractors for slave labour rates plus dying on the job, being fought all the way by the Coalition.

Absolutely and wage theft is rampant through most sectors and there is nothing wrong with stopping it, same as most companies have been in the news lately for underpayments, it is just about a weekly event and something the Government should do something about.
Same as the latest scam with Australian super double charging members, who would have thought a union run company would rip of their members like that.

 

[wayneL]

Thank God I can still listen to "The Butcher and Fast Eddie"... Phew!

******

ANGRY ANDERSON ON ‘THE VOICE’

Dear Brothers and Sisters, I feel compelled to write to you all, on this occasion, to share with you my thoughts and feelings on the upcoming referendum on The Voice.

Previously I would've kept my opinions, on political matters to myself, in keeping with my belief that each of us must not only retain our personal political leanings, as is our right but also at the same time respect one another's views or beliefs, however on this occasion I feel that this momentous moment in our history is of such importance that it is timely that some of us, if not all, speak up and declare where we stand and why, it is, off course, a deeply personal individual decision and so I am now making my stance known to you, to those of you that have supported, for all these many years, myself and the Rosie tatt's, I add at this time that I have discussed this matter with the other members of the band and did gain their approval to do so.

My support, going back decades, for our Aboriginal people should not ever be in question and you that know anything about me would know this.

Since the late seventies, when I first heard the term 'the Aboriginal industry', we all have seen just how this industry has grown and sadly become, like most other bureaucracies', an ineffectual giant, a toothless tiger, a bottomless pit, into which so many of our tax dollars are yearly poured to little effect.

On well-meaning advice from representatives, from our Aboriginal community, candidates were democratically elected into office in an effort to have true representation in our government, both state and federal, but again, sadly, we have all seen that even those appointed to bring about change for the betterment of all Aboriginal people seem to have not been able to or willing to bring about those changes.

I have heard and listened to the Voice of Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, among others, as they have for years called for recognition of the real problems of the most neglected of our Aboriginal people.

We, mainstream Australians, are not racist and we are tired of being told we are, purely by the virtue of having been born Caucasian.

We've all hung in there, all these years, never begrudging the billions of our hard-earned taxes going into the Aboriginal industry in the belief that they would make a difference..they haven't!

We entrusted those dollars when asked, to be put into the hands of Aboriginal people or those nominated by them after being told that 'they' know best, well have we received bang for buck? No, we haven't!

What we have seen recently is that some of these representatives, both individuals, departments, companies, and some of those elected into our parliament have become obscenely wealthy on our taxed dollars, it would seem that very few of our dollars are reaching those most in need!...but again according to those within the industry it, somehow, is our fault and it can only be fixed if a 'yes' result is achieved with the coming referendum, well let me state clearly I don't believe them!

So it's a NO from me! For decades now that very industry of radical voices have tried to blame, shame, and bully us into believing that we are the problem, well I'm saying now, loud and clear, I have never accepted that!

I do not accept that! and I never will accept it!

In closing I reaffirm my personal commitment to our Australian Aboriginal people and to being part of the solution that will work towards uplifting the lives of those seemingly forgotten, I have personally offered my allegiance to Jacinta and to any others, like her, that will truly work towards bettering the lives of our most neglected Brothers and Sisters.

PS, please, I ask that we all vote, vote clearly!... Write Yes or NO clearly so your vote is not wasted, our future depends on it, our future is in your hands! Angry.

 

[Smurf1976]

Some one mention taxes?

That Garnaut thinks the problem is the missing $70 billion is where the Left are so monumentally failing.

No Sir, the people don't want to hand another $70b to government to do with as they please. Hell no they don't, the prices of petrol, diesel, gas and electricity are too high as it is and we've already lost far too much of our manufacturing base at the hands of government intentionally rendering it unviable whilst turning a blind eye to what goes on overseas.

What we're seeing here with the Voice isn't a rejection of Aboriginal people. Rather, it's a rejection of the "elites" and the perpetual victims who between them are bleeding the rest dry.

That's the explanation for rather a lot of recent politics. It's what made Trump the US President despite being so incredibly flawed as an individual, it's why Labor received less than a third of the primary vote at the last Australian federal election despite the Coalition being in total disarray and it's why there's a growing pushback against anything seen as connected to the elites of which the Voice is an example.

What the working masses are looking for is a government that embraces the old progressive principle of "consenting adults", which looks after those genuinely unable to look after themselves and which gets on with the job of efficiently delivering services. What they don't want is another bleeding heart story about why life's so hard for people who refuse to do anything to help themselves despite being able or, worse still, more hindrance to workers and business actually doing something in Australia.

Consenting adults = if it affects nobody who isn't an adult who's voluntarily engaging in it then government has no place whatsoever to be involved. Once it's outside that boundary, once it involves non-consenting adults, children, animals or the natural environment that's when regulation is warranted to protect those who cannot protect themselves. That applies to all things all the time.

Something's gone seriously wrong when failing to remove graffiti from a building attracts a fine but there's zero punishment for those who put it there in the first place "because they had a hard upbringing". Something's gone even more wrong when we talk of forcing Australian business to reduce pollution whilst turning a blind eye to what goes on overseas without even applying a tariff. Etc. Those are just examples of the concept.

The workers have had more than enough of being expected to carry the rest is the crux of what all this comes down to. They simply can't afford to keep spending on everything the elites demand they involuntarily spend on.

That they're rejecting the Voice isn't a rejection of Aboriginal people. It's just a rejection of something that sounds awfully like more of the same.

That doesn't preclude alternative means to help Aboriginal people. Just make sure they're practical, clearly defined and that performance can be objectively measured all of which are missing from the present proposal.

 

[wayneL]

Innerestin', n'est-ce pas?

 

[wayneL]

Pretty good article on why corporates should stay the @#$& out of the voice debate.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/stay-out-of-it-rinehart-ceo-blasts-companies-backing-yes-campaign/news-story/16f902e3e8c9ef0cc9f541327c7f502e

 

[TimeISmoney]

Pretty good article on why corporates should stay the @#$& out of the voice debate.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/stay-out-of-it-rinehart-ceo-blasts-companies-backing-yes-campaign/news-story/16f902e3e8c9ef0cc9f541327c7f502e

The old virtue signalling companies, never did anything meaningful to help in the first place.

 

[JohnDe]

PoliticsNow: Anthony Albanese, Peter Dutton condemn 'nasty, disturbing' voice protest​

Protestors assemble outside the Adelaide Convention Centre at a No campaign event. Picture: NCA NewsWire/ Morgan Sette

Anthony Albanese has condemned “nasty behaviour wherever it occurs” after No campaigners were labelled “racist pigs” and “racist dogs”, conceding some of the tone of the voice referendum debate has been unfortunate.

As leading No campaigner Jacinta Nampijinpa Price declared the Prime Minister had to take responsibility for the racism and division in Australia, Mr Albanese urged voters to be respectful and debate the referendum question before them.

Peter Dutton also urged Australians to participate in the voice debate respectfully, lashing the “deeply disturbing” protest.

Video taken by South Australian Liberal senator Alex Antic walking into Fair Australia’s No campaign launch in Adelaide on Monday evening shows protesters yelling “racist dog”, “racist pig” and “crazy wankers”.

Senator Price and Indigenous leader Warren Mundine were the headline speakers of the event.

“I condemn nasty behaviour wherever it occurs,” Mr Albanese said.

“Of course some of the tone of the debate has been unfortunate. That’s the truth. What I would say to people is be respectful. I respect every Australian regardless of whether they’re going to vote Yes or whether they’re going to No.”

The Opposition Leader said people who had decided to vote No had “done so for good reason”.

“They have listened to the debates. Many of them are frustrated with the fact that the Prime Minister is deliberately withholding information,” Mr Dutton said.

“People don’t understand the model and the scenes that we’ve seen are disturbing because people are entitled to their views. I have a great deal of respect for people who are voting either Yes or No.”

Senator Price said there had been bullying, gas lighting and manipulative behaviour during the referendum campaign.

“This is the level of racism and division that the Prime Minister has to take responsibility for in this country right now. Where people like myself, people like my incredible colleagues here, are singled out because apparently as Indigenous people we’re supposed to agree with a proposal that is empty,” she said in Adelaide on Monday.

“We’re supposed to agree with leftist ideology as opposed to thinking for ourselves and certainly to inform the Australian people as to the danger to voting yes. We must vote no for unifying this nation, for maintaining equality in our country. We’re having conversations with Aboriginal people from grassroots communities who are dead set against this, they see the dangers in this, and we’re here to represent those voices.”

Mr Albanese seized on divisions within the No camp, after Mr Mundine split from Senator Price to declare his support for treaties and changing Australia Day four weeks out from the October 14 referendum.

Senator Price has also been cautious in backing a second referendum solely on constitutional recognition - which Mr Dutton has committed to pursuing if he wins the next election - saying any future process must involve all Australians.

“There has been a significant fear campaign going on raising a whole lot of issues that won’t be impacted by October 14, including issues in which people in the No camp Warren Mundine has a very different view from Jacinta Price who has a different view from Peter Dutton,” Mr Albanese said.

“Peter Dutton appears to want for this referendum to be defeated, for him to win the next election and then have another referendum. That to me makes no sense to reject what Indigenous people are asking for, which is a very modest and simple request.”

Asked on Monday if he was worried his support for treaties would cost him any tilt at replacing Marise Payne as a NSW senator, Mr Mundine responded: “I’m worried about this lie that the Albanese government is running about a referendum that is costing hundreds of millions of dollars that could be better spent in those communities, getting kids to school, getting people into businesses, getting jobs. That’s what I’m worried about and that’s my total focus, is to make sure this referendum doesn’t get up.”

ROSIE LEWIS POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT

 

[TimeISmoney]

PoliticsNow: Anthony Albanese, Peter Dutton condemn 'nasty, disturbing' voice protest​

View attachment 162632Protestors assemble outside the Adelaide Convention Centre at a No campaign event. Picture: NCA NewsWire/ Morgan Sette

• Prime Minister has to take responsibility for the racism and division in Australia
• The Opposition Leader said people who had decided to vote No had “done so for good reason”.
• Senator Price said there had been bullying, gas lighting and manipulative behaviour during the referendum campaign.
• “Im worried about this lie that the Albanese government is running about a referendum that is costing hundreds of millions of dollars that could be better spent in those communities, getting kids to school, getting people into businesses, getting jobs

Everyone on this thread would do a better job at running the country (Including @IFocus ), we predicted all of this long ago.

What did they think was going to happen?

 

[SirRumpole]

Warren Mundine: No gains possible if the Voice debate stays focused on sins of the past​

"
‘No’ campaigner Warren Mundine has stoked the debate about the lingering impact of colonisation by saying Australia cannot afford to embrace a better future while fixated on the past.

Opposition Indigenous affairs spokeswoman Jacinta Nampijinpa Price stirred controversy in a provocative speech, saying British colonisation had not had lasting negative impacts on Aboriginal people.

Indigenous Australians Minister Linda Burney labelled the comments “simply wrong” and a “betrayal” to the stolen generations’ families.


Mr Mundine said the nation needed to “recognise the good and bad” of colonisation but should not let it continue to capture the national psyche.

“You cannot go on forever saying that colonisation … is going to stop us from doing things, is going to stop us from improving our lives and keep us in poverty,” he told the ABC’s Insiders program on Sunday.

“We’ve got to recognise the problems of the past, we’ve got to talk about our history factually.

“But at the same time, we have to move forward, if we do not move forward, then we’re stuck in history.”

Mr Mundine pointed to prominent Indigenous Australians such as himself and academic and activist Marcia Langton as examples that Indigenous people were able to succeed.

Bush vs. the Big Smoke​

He said the largest gap was not between black and white, but between cities and people living in remote and regional Australia.

This is where the problems are, we have to stop treating Aboriginal people the same,” he said.

“We need to be focusing on the ones who are struggling and in need of support.”


Minister Bill Shorten said it was important debate heads back to the basics and the arguments are focused on the changes to the Constitution before Australians.

“Everyone’s entitled to their opinion but … we just need to clarify what this is all about,” he told Sky News on Sunday.

“This referendum is about a pretty straightforward proposition, it’s about recognition and listening in order to get better results.”

Greens Leader Adam Bandt said he did not agree with Senator Price’s colonisation comments and the referendum was about whether Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people should be recognised in the constitution and be given a voice to advise the government.

‘A fairly uncontroversial proposition’​

“Ultimately this referendum is about recognising … that not only they were here, that they were here first, which is obviously something that previously the law didn’t recognise,” he said.

“To that extent, I think the referendum is actually a fairly uncontroversial proposition.”

As campaigning for and against an Indigenous Voice to parliament ramps up ahead of the upcoming referendum, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese remains confident Australians will vote ‘yes’.

Australians have taken to the streets this weekend to join official ‘yes’ campaign walks, backed by rock stars including Paul Kelly, Peter Garrett, Dan Sultan, Missy Higgins, Bernard Fanning, Spiderbait and John Butler.

Voters will head to the ballot box on October 14, when they will be asked whether they want to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by enshrining an Indigenous consultative body in the constitution."

Warren Mundine: We have to look beyond sins of the past

'No' campaigner Warren Mundine has stoked the debate about colonisation's legacy, saying the past cannot control the future.

thenewdaily.com.au

 

[TimeISmoney]

https://www.rebelnews.com/indigenous_activists_unveil_vote_no_banner_at_brisbane_pro_voice_rally?

 

[wayneL]

IIRC , a certain member here claimed there was no Communist party in Oz.

Ummmm..... Red Over Black, anyone?

 

[Knobby22]

Fascists and racists are trying to hitch a ride on the No campaign. Organisers need to be vigilant that they don't give this scum a free kick.

"All indigenous Australians support the invasion of Ukraine"

Far-right US podcaster spoke at conservative conference chaired by Warren Mundine

A far-right US media figure who has made racist attacks on Indigenous Australians spoke at a conservative conference chaired by leading No campaigner Warren Mundine.

www.abc.net.au

Anti-Voice rallies organised by pro-Putin conspiracy theorist

The official No campaign has distanced itself from this weekend’s rallies, which have been organised by Simeon Boikov – known online as “the Aussie Cossack”.

www.theage.com.au

 

[SirRumpole]

Fascists and racists are trying to hitch a ride on the No campaign. Organisers need to be vigilant that they don't give this scum a free kick.

"All indigenous Australians support the invasion of Ukraine"

Far-right US podcaster spoke at conservative conference chaired by Warren Mundine

A far-right US media figure who has made racist attacks on Indigenous Australians spoke at a conservative conference chaired by leading No campaigner Warren Mundine.

www.abc.net.au

Anti-Voice rallies organised by pro-Putin conspiracy theorist

The official No campaign has distanced itself from this weekend’s rallies, which have been organised by Simeon Boikov – known online as “the Aussie Cossack”.

www.theage.com.au

Some nasty people on the fringes of the No campaign, that's for sure.

That shouldn't detract from the sensible proponents of the No campaign though.

 

[wayneL]

Fascists and racists are trying to hitch a ride on the No campaign. Organisers need to be vigilant that they don't give this scum a free kick.

"All indigenous Australians support the invasion of Ukraine"

Far-right US podcaster spoke at conservative conference chaired by Warren Mundine

A far-right US media figure who has made racist attacks on Indigenous Australians spoke at a conservative conference chaired by leading No campaigner Warren Mundine.

www.abc.net.au

Anti-Voice rallies organised by pro-Putin conspiracy theorist

The official No campaign has distanced itself from this weekend’s rallies, which have been organised by Simeon Boikov – known online as “the Aussie Cossack”.

www.theage.com.au

I used to listen to Schaffer's podcast for a short while, but thought he was a bit of a tw@t, so don't anymore.

The tag of "far right" though, is totally inaccurate and typical of the BS coming out of the ABC.

I don't have any trouble believing he said something stupid, but I note the article omits any evidence of the slur or what the alleged slur was. I'd like to see it before I believe it.

The ABC had form for unjustified character assassination.

 

[Knobby22]

I used to listen to Schaffer's podcast for a short while, but thought he was a bit of a tw@t, so don't anymore.

The tag of "far right" though, is totally inaccurate and typical of the BS coming out of the ABC.

I don't have any trouble believing he said something stupid, but I note the article omits any evidence of the slur or what the alleged slur was. I'd like to see it before I believe it.

The ABC had form for unjustified character assassination.

The ABC aren't allowed to repeat racial slurs.

 

[wayneL]

The ABC aren't allowed to repeat racial slurs.

How can we trust that anything he said was with any malice then? That gives them carte blanche to accuse anyone of anything.