The Voice

[IFocus]

Listening to Warren Mundine now on Insiders.
Well worth a listen but it is on the ABC *

One thing he points out that was achieved from the aboriginal advisory body he was a member of was the Indigenous Business Strategy to develop businesses in the country which cost hardly anything but is now worth $8.7billion.

He want to go forward, draw a line and then take it off everyone's agendas,
He wants 3 things: 1. Accountability, 2. Education and 3. Jobs He wants these for remote communities as he says the indigineous poeple living in the cities are doing fine.


*(some people here don't have permission from Newscorp to watch it).

Mundine was quite nuanced about the whole issue sure he in a no campaigner but his stance is actually closer to the yes vote.

He thinks the Voice is a waste of time he actually wants far far more.

His point on treaties should send a shiver up the spine of most here including his predictions of the amount of land that will eventually fall under Aboriginals which he is advocating for.

Liberal premier "Barney" was ahead of his time actually governed for all including the Noongar people.

A lesson in diplomacy​

Mr Barnett was the premier of Western Australia for more than eight years and signed a landmark native title deal in 2015.

The South West Native Title Settlement with the Noongar people saw them agree to a $1.3 billion deal in exchange for relinquishing native title rights to a 200,000 square-kilometre area covering all of south west WA, including Perth.

Native title settlement deal​

A $1.3 billion deal has been inked between the WA Government and Noongar people for the use of land in the state's most populated region.

Read more
The agreement is the largest native title settlement in Australian history.

The settlement would see cash, land, housing and other benefits made available to 30,000 Aboriginal people over 12 years, Mr Barnett said at the time.

"I was incredibly impressed with the courage of the Noongar people to make that decision," Mr Barnett said.

"A lot of people said to me, 'It's taking a long time, five years of negotiation is a long time', and my response was, 'Understand that for the Noongar people, this is one role of the dice'.

"So it was very well thought out, very detailed and very expensive, but worth it."

Mr Barnett with former South West Aboriginal Land and Sea Council chairman Brendan Moore.(Four Corners: Craig Hansen)
Mr Barnett said the agreement – known by many as the Noongar Treaty – showed how real consultation can lead to tangible outcomes, which was what the proponents of the Voice promise.

"It's not a small deal that was negotiated and I think it's a pity that we're finding with the Voice that it has turned into a divisive political debate … I think that's very damaging," Mr Barnett said.

Former WA premier Colin Barnett reveals position on Voice referendum

The former Liberal leader tells the ABC how he will vote in Australia’s Voice to Parliament referendum and why.

www.abc.net.au

 

[IFocus]

I've never really understood how a treaty is relevant here. My sense of a treaty is both parties at the table have SOME bargaining power. Basically the loser can still bloody the nose of the victor, especially if the loser is cornered. That's just not how it went down: any serious military threat was neutralised very early on. The ATSIs were not united at all, had no weapons to speak of, and tended to join up (and intermarry) with colonists.

Yeah...nah that isn't how it happened massacre's of men, women and children were common even into the 1920's not hard to find the history but you wont find it in schools.

 

[farmerge]

As does our Left.

Bringing back racism as an issue is itself a manifestation of that. Go back to the 1990's and the big push was to treat everyone equally regardless of colour, a point widely championed at the time by progressives, mostly accepted as reasonable by conservatives, and which even became embedded in popular culture at the time.

Then someone decided that no, Black is not equal to White and never will be. Started overseas and now it's come to Australia.

Personally, I remain firmly in favour of the 1990's ideal. Treat everyone equally and give everyone the same opportunities regardless of race, gender, physical attributes and so on and no matter what their background or circumstances. I reject absolutely the push to bring back racial discrimination.

Only exceptions being where there's a bona fide reason to discriminate that has no evil intent. Eg a medical study may legitimately need to collect data only about people with certain attributes or at least separate people with those attributes from everyone else. Another example is actors where a certain gender, age and physical appearance may be a reasonably desired preference for reasons of authenticity. Etc. The justified exceptions are extremely specific and generally self-evident as to their legitimacy.

I realise that this is only a dream of mine but I am a firm believer in Australia being a nation of all people living here, being equal and living under only one national flag.

 

[Smurf1976]

Sorry Smurf but from the US that's a No they don't have a "left" in power

I've taken groups such as Just Stop Oil, BLM, Extinction Rebellion, the more extreme elements of the LGBTQI+ lobby, Greenpeace, Tyre Extinguishers and so on to be at least somewhat Left leaning.

If they do something internationally then either it's a copy of what they've already done in Australia or it'll be done here not long afterward. Americans or the British march for whatever, not long afterward the same thing's here in Australia in some form.

In all these issues we seem to have a situation where a minority wants to make a permanent, ongoing career out of activism that never ends meanwhile the rest of society is just getting on with what needs to be done.

Personally I've seen this phenomenon play out in the workplace with union delegates. They do a great job getting whatever issue resolved but when that's done they don't simply go back to doing their job. Rather, they keep finding new issues which justifies ongoing conflict with management and, crucially, avoids doing their real job. After a while they lose support from everyone, management and workers alike, once it's clear their intention is to keep being an activist indefinitely.

Plenty of other examples I could point to. Things where activism has run its natural course and either the war's won or there's acceptance of what needs to happen and it's now just about physical implementation. Either way there's no longer any purpose being served by activism, that stage is finished and continuing to push it does nobody any favours.

To me the Voice is looking awfully like this scenario. It looks like the intent is an endless agenda - why else would there be a need to establish it as a permanent body?

 

[qldfrog]

Even a treaty is a distraction.

How will it close the gap ?

Stop asking questions, what's next? thinking?

 

[qldfrog]

I realise that this is only a dream of mine but I am a firm believer in Australia being a nation of all people living here, being equal and living under only one national flag.

Being equal at birth and in rights

 

[sptrawler]

Sorry Smurf but from the US that's a No they don't have a "left" in power Democrat's are further right that Australians Coalition, sure they have a few left politicians however simple test is the US doesn't have universal health care (health care bankruptcy is a thing) they only just up the basic wage from $7, non union workers just get hammered etc.

The Democrats are not held in high regard by Labor.

That's capitalism at its finest.
You don't find many tradies in the Qantas chairmans lounge, too busy working to pay the taxes to fund it.

 

[wayneL]

Red over black, as has been pointed out before:

Red over Black; Behind the Aboriginal Land Rights (G.McDonald)

Publishers and Distributors of fine books. Publishing without fear or favour. Christian based service movement warning about threats to rights and freedom.

veritasbooks.com.au

 

[sptrawler]

Even a treaty is a distraction.

How will it close the gap ?

It wont, but it will put the onus of responsibility on them to overcome their issues, rather than laying the responsibility at the feet of those who fund them, the working class.
Who are just trying to get on with lives and get ahead, while the rich find new and more noble ways to take the money off them, while sipping chardonnay on the balcony overlooking the harbour, or the ocean and wondering what is the next wrong they can right before the worker collapses under the weight of good intent .
The irony of the left, it is a fabulous form of Government, until you run out of other peoples money to spend.

 

[wayneL]

It wont, but it will put the onus of responsibility on them to overcome their issues, rather than laying the responsibility at the feet of those who fund them, the working class.
Who are just trying to get on with lives and get ahead, while the rich find new and more noble ways to take the money off them, while sipping chardonnay on the balcony overlooking the harbour, or the ocean and wondering what is the next wrong they can right before the worker collapses under the weight of good intent .

The minions probably have good intentions, convinced they are doing right. However, I simply don't believe the elite bear anything but malice, the goal to destroy the liberal economic order.

Call me a tin hatter if you like, but it's a huge psyop.

 

[sptrawler]

The minions probably have good intentions, convinced they are doing right. However, I simply don't believe the elite bear anything but malice, the goal to destroy the liberal economic order.

Call me a tin hatter if you like, but it's a huge psyop.

The grass roots people I talk to, feel the rich have just found a way to get richer and feel good about themselves by becoming chardonnay philanthropist, meanwhile the working class get to wear the brunt of paying for it.
There is a hell of a lot of anger out there, workers aspiring to buy a house while the prices are spiralling away and the Governments are finding new and more wonderful ways of taking more money off them. Meanwhile the elites properties just keep going up in value, what's not like about that, from an elites point of view, there is a tax cut just around the corner.
Keep importing zillions of new tax payers, to pay for it, Cheers, chin chin, clink.
Super is going to be the next battleground for the worker, as the Governments finds ways to use the workers savings, to fund what their taxes can't.

 

[SirRumpole]

Super is going to be the next battleground for the worker, as the Governments finds ways to use the workers savings, to fund what their taxes can't.

A bit off topic for this thread, but I don't see why super funds don't invest more in housing instead of expecting governments to raise the money.

It's the safest form of investment in the world so it seems crazy that there is a housing shortage when super funds are investing in other areas.

 

[sptrawler]

A bit off topic for this thread, but I don't see why super funds don't invest more in housing instead of expecting governments to raise the money.

It's the safest form of investment in the world so it seems crazy that there is a housing shortage when super funds are investing in other areas.

Housing is the issue that is sending the middle class down the S bend, meanwhile the Governments come up with a million reasons why something else is more important, the middle class are getting fed up with being the mule for the elites.
It is going to end badly, more money to fund military, more money to fund aboriginal affairs, more money for groceries, more money for electricity, more money for essential services, more money for fuel, more money to buy a house and we are going to referendum to add another department to the aboriginal services sector of Government.
I really think the workers are getting restless.

 

[TimeISmoney]

Mundine was quite nuanced about the whole issue sure he in a no campaigner but his stance is actually closer to the yes vote.

He thinks the Voice is a waste of time he actually wants far far more.

His point on treaties should send a shiver up the spine of most here including his predictions of the amount of land that will eventually fall under Aboriginals which he is advocating for.

Liberal premier "Barney" was ahead of his time actually governed for all including the Noongar people.

A lesson in diplomacy​

Mr Barnett was the premier of Western Australia for more than eight years and signed a landmark native title deal in 2015.

The South West Native Title Settlement with the Noongar people saw them agree to a $1.3 billion deal in exchange for relinquishing native title rights to a 200,000 square-kilometre area covering all of south west WA, including Perth.

Native title settlement deal​

A $1.3 billion deal has been inked between the WA Government and Noongar people for the use of land in the state's most populated region.
View attachment 162550
Read more
The agreement is the largest native title settlement in Australian history.

The settlement would see cash, land, housing and other benefits made available to 30,000 Aboriginal people over 12 years, Mr Barnett said at the time.

"I was incredibly impressed with the courage of the Noongar people to make that decision," Mr Barnett said.

"A lot of people said to me, 'It's taking a long time, five years of negotiation is a long time', and my response was, 'Understand that for the Noongar people, this is one role of the dice'.

"So it was very well thought out, very detailed and very expensive, but worth it."

View attachment 162551
Mr Barnett with former South West Aboriginal Land and Sea Council chairman Brendan Moore.(Four Corners: Craig Hansen)
Mr Barnett said the agreement – known by many as the Noongar Treaty – showed how real consultation can lead to tangible outcomes, which was what the proponents of the Voice promise.

"It's not a small deal that was negotiated and I think it's a pity that we're finding with the Voice that it has turned into a divisive political debate … I think that's very damaging," Mr Barnett said.

Former WA premier Colin Barnett reveals position on Voice referendum

The former Liberal leader tells the ABC how he will vote in Australia’s Voice to Parliament referendum and why.

www.abc.net.au

The land titles have little to do with Mundine, there's been a backlog of native title claims for years, and good old labor has decided to defund some local councils so that it's difficult to challenge in courts and speed up the process. I really don't understand why Indigions would pursue these types of claims at the worst possible time when they need everyone to vote for them.

 

[TimeISmoney]

Sorry Smurf but from the US that's a No they don't have a "left" in power Democrat's are further right that Australians Coalition, sure they have a few left politicians however simple test is the US doesn't have universal health care (health care bankruptcy is a thing) they only just up the basic wage from $7, non union workers just get hammered etc.

The Democrats are not held in high regard by Labor.

Do you think this doesn't happen in Australia, backpacker fruit pickers were getting $5/hr in 2017.

 

[IFocus]

Do you think this doesn't happen in Australia, backpacker fruit pickers were getting $5/hr in 2017.

Thanks to the Coalition?

Coalition is now opposing Labor to change slave labor rates and conditions.

 

[TimeISmoney]

It wont, but it will put the onus of responsibility on them to overcome their issues, rather than laying the responsibility at the feet of those who fund them, the working class.
Who are just trying to get on with lives and get ahead, while the rich find new and more noble ways to take the money off them, while sipping chardonnay on the balcony overlooking the harbour, or the ocean and wondering what is the next wrong they can right before the worker collapses under the weight of good intent .
The irony of the left, it is a fabulous form of Government, until you run out of other peoples money to spend.

Well, you saw what happened in Brimington when the woke bankrupted a local council. I certainly don't have a problem with equality but it's more suffering for everyone in the end and it's usually the poor, not the union reps.

 

[sptrawler]

Mundine was quite nuanced about the whole issue sure he in a no campaigner but his stance is actually closer to the yes vote.

He thinks the Voice is a waste of time he actually wants far far more.

His point on treaties should send a shiver up the spine of most here including his predictions of the amount of land that will eventually fall under Aboriginals which he is advocating for.

Liberal premier "Barney" was ahead of his time actually governed for all including the Noongar people.

A lesson in diplomacy​

Mr Barnett was the premier of Western Australia for more than eight years and signed a landmark native title deal in 2015.

The South West Native Title Settlement with the Noongar people saw them agree to a $1.3 billion deal in exchange for relinquishing native title rights to a 200,000 square-kilometre area covering all of south west WA, including Perth.

Native title settlement deal​

A $1.3 billion deal has been inked between the WA Government and Noongar people for the use of land in the state's most populated region.
View attachment 162550
Read more
The agreement is the largest native title settlement in Australian history.

The settlement would see cash, land, housing and other benefits made available to 30,000 Aboriginal people over 12 years, Mr Barnett said at the time.

"I was incredibly impressed with the courage of the Noongar people to make that decision," Mr Barnett said.

"A lot of people said to me, 'It's taking a long time, five years of negotiation is a long time', and my response was, 'Understand that for the Noongar people, this is one role of the dice'.

"So it was very well thought out, very detailed and very expensive, but worth it."

View attachment 162551
Mr Barnett with former South West Aboriginal Land and Sea Council chairman Brendan Moore.(Four Corners: Craig Hansen)
Mr Barnett said the agreement – known by many as the Noongar Treaty – showed how real consultation can lead to tangible outcomes, which was what the proponents of the Voice promise.

"It's not a small deal that was negotiated and I think it's a pity that we're finding with the Voice that it has turned into a divisive political debate … I think that's very damaging," Mr Barnett said.

Former WA premier Colin Barnett reveals position on Voice referendum

The former Liberal leader tells the ABC how he will vote in Australia’s Voice to Parliament referendum and why.

www.abc.net.au

I thought #2,671 might clarify my stance, sort it out and move on, don't add more $hit to the pile which IMO is what the voice will do.

KISS (keep it simple stupid) and sort out the root cause, adding more bloatware is just another brain fart gravy train heading for another train wreck.
IMO it should be done at the local level and the less Canberra interference the better, also adding a race based entitlement in the constitution will only add a distraction to the basic issue which is compensation.
Having pet legacy policies is nice but it doesn't fix anything, as 90% of the past legacy policies have proven, it might make some feel smug and caring, but it fixes nothing.

 

[sptrawler]

Thanks to the Coalition?

Coalition is now opposing Labor to change slave labor rates and conditions.

Which will no doubt close down a lot of the fruit growing areas, not to worry we can always import fruit, life's about balance for every action there's a reaction.

Removing tariffs to make our manufacturing more efficient, worked a treat, didn't it. It's not only the coalition that stuff up.

Morrison apparently was a coal lover, but he wasn't paying the coal generators to stay on was he which Labor are, as I say it is never black or white there are a myriad of shades in between.

Just because labor say the voice is the only answer, doesn't actually make it so, as many of Labors past grandiose plans that have gone awry have proven.

 

[TimeISmoney]

Thanks to the Coalition?

Coalition is now opposing Labor to change slave labor rates and conditions.

The backpacker thing has been going on for years, it's no secret to any party. I suppose no Aussie is willing to pay $20 for a Banana so that a local can get a fair days pay.