The Voice

[IFocus]

The Voice and the way it was run is extremely disappointing. It's put back race relations by decades. Too many idiots in control.

Yeah the Yes campaign needed more people in the Russian embassy

 

[StockyGuy]

Yeah the Yes campaign needed more people in the Russian embassy

Sour grapes?

The Fox and the Grapes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[wayneL]

Yeah the Yes campaign needed more people in the Russian embassy

Or perhaps llama impressions?

 

[basilio]

I saw a few stories claiming The Voice was just a Communist Front . I wondered at the time how this particular lie had been generated and came across the answer this morning. The answer is even uglier than I thought.

And all to stop an advisory body .

How Australian white supremacists used a 40-year-old documentary to divide voters on the Voice​

ABC Investigations
/
Exclusive by Kevin Nguyen and Michael Workman
Posted 1h ago1 hours ago, updated 1h ago1 hours ago

Former Trotskyite unionist turned right-wing activist Geoff McDonald was the public face of the anti-land rights movement during the 1980s.(ABC News)
Help keep family & friends informed by sharing this article

Link copied
It was created more than 40 years ago and inflamed the land rights debate in Australia. Red Over Black, a book and documentary released in the early 1980s, claimed the movement was a communist plot to erode Australia's sovereignty.

Now, the film is being used as a clarion call by anti-Voice to Parliament campaigners in the referendum to be held later this month.
ABC Investigations has tracked how the hour-long documentary was repurposed, revealing Australian white supremacists played a major role in its appropriation and dissemination.

The documentary has been circulated among groups promoting today's rallies against the Voice around the country.
Warning: This story contains references to racist and anti-Semitic language.

Leading far-right and conspiracy theory researcher Kaz Ross described it as a "deliberate infiltration strategy" of the anti-Voice campaign by sections of the far right.

White supremacists are using an obscure 40-year-old documentary to split the Voice vote

An obscure 1980s documentary about the Indigenous land rights movement has become a clarion call for those opposing the Voice to Parliament. An ABC Investigations analysis has traced how a debunked conspiracy theory about communists was weaponised to divide voters on the referendum.

www.abc.net.au

 

[basilio]

Amazing really. Just checked out Geoff McDonalds form in the 1980's on the Aboriginal Land Rights issue. Absolutely no surprise that the far right movement were his mates then and anyone to the left of Belke Peterson was a traitor.

Fort years ago and bugger all has changed .

ULTRA RIGHT

Geoff McDonald: former communist, darling of Joh and the WA Liberals

by Denis Freney

Geoff McDonald is one of those ex-communists whom the extreme right love. Since he left the Communist Party of Australia in the early
'sixties, McDonald has become a significant figure on the rightand he now counts among his admirers the anti-semitic League
of Rights, Joh Bjelke-Petersen and Bruce Ruxton, Victorian RSL President and champion of White Australia.

Last year, Geoff McDonald's Red Over Black — Behind the Aboriginal Land Rights was warmly welcomed by Bjelke- Petersen and his ilk as the definite proof that the land rights movement was all a Russian plot, aimed at gaining control of the Deep North and eventually all of Australia. Ruxton wrote its preface.

Today, it is very difficult to find a copy of McDonald's book in Sydney or Melbourne. But up in AliceSprings, it is a best-seller. This is in no small measure due to the active support given by Alice Springs Country-Liberal MHADenis Collins. Collins financed its widespread distribution in the Alice,and encouraged local newsagents to place it prominently on display.

Visiting tourists are encouraged to buy it. Local Whites, conservative religious groups and assorted racist groups are also getting the book
circulated in Aboriginal settlements. They are warning Blacks of the great conspiracy by "part-Aborigines" and radical White supporters to
hand them over to the Russians...

The Centralian Advocate last September quoted Collins as saying some Vietnamese refugees were communist plants. A couple of
mortars could knock out Pine Gap,he warned. Marxist revolution would come to Australia "sooner than you think", he said. He opposed landrights and said reserves should be divided up among individual Aboriginal families and be able to be bought or sold. Unbelievable story

Geoff McDonald is currently completing a tour of the north-west of Western Australia, telling the"chilling and almost unbelievable
story of the marxist manipulation of the Aboriginal 'land rights'
movement", according to The Pilbara Times.

The Pilbara Times (August 4) also noted that during his eight-town tour McDonald "will be accompanied by Liberal Party Kalgoorlie North Division executive officer Joe Kerekes".

McDonald was the main speaker at Sydney's annual Captive Nations Week protest last month outside the Soviet Embassy, again holding forth on the Russian plot behind the land rights movement.

The fact that McDonald is being sponsored by the West Australian Liberal Party in the Pilbara, the Country-Liberal Party in Northern
Territory and Bjelke-Petersen in Queensland makes it worthwhile then to look briefly at McDonald's "exposure".

It is a strange book. McDonald's literary style is as weird as his politics. He rambles through quotes from newspaper letter columns and
from Bjelke-Petersen ("we desperately need more political fighters like Joh Bjelke-Petersen")and other worthies such as Bruce
Ruxton ("a man of high purpose").

Curiously, the quotes from CPA publications and Tribune are very few. McDonald "while painting Aboriginal murals on the secret
Communist training school at Minto, NSW, first heard of the long- range Communist strategy for the establishment of an Aboriginal
republic under Communist control".

The Aboriginal Embassy set up in Canberra was a step towards that separate nation (after all only separate countries have embassies,
don't they?) And Tribune and the CPA backed the Embassy...

McDonald thus "proves" (with a few quotes from Stalin as well) that land rights is "manipulated" by communists who want a separate,
Russian-dominated Aboriginal nation.

He then spends the rest of the book concentrating his fire on "limp-wristed politicians and the delicate small-1 liberals" who are
frightened by the word "racism" from "discussing even the social cataclysm of multi-culturalism or wrong immigration policies".

Wide attacks

McDonald's attacks concentrate on people and organisations such as Dr Coombs, Pat O'Shane, Charlie Perkins, the World Council of
Churches, Malcolm Fraser, the United Nations, Senator Neville Bonner, Fraser's former Immigration Minister Ian Macphee and A1
Grassby. The list is virtually a catalogue of anyone to the left of Joh Bjelke-Petersen.

McDonald also rambles through other ultra-right causes: why we should keep the Australian flag; how stopping the Franklin dam is all a
communist plot; how White police 50 years ago didn't rape Black women; the evils of pot, and the glories of the RSL.

Enough said. McDonald's writings would not be worth a line except for the fact that they are promoted by the extreme right in the Liberal and National Parties.

Even more disturbing are the international connections of Veritas Publishing Company in Western Australia, the publishers of Red

Over Black (see box this page).

ULTRA RIGHT - Geoff McDonald: former communist, darling of Joh and the WA Liberals - Tribune (Sydney, NSW : 1939 - 1991) - 17 Aug 1983

Geoff McDonald is one of those ex-communists whom the extreme right love. Since he left the Communist Party of Australia in the early 'sixties, McDonald has become a significant figure on the right ...

trove.nla.gov.au

 

[DrBourse]

$39.5 billion

How would you feel if I told you that’s how much Australian taxpayers spend on direct government support for Indigenous communities?

Well, it is $39.5 billion of direct government expenditure a year.

This equates to $100 million - every single day!

That’s more than we spend on the NDIS $35.5 billion; Medicare $31.3 billion; and Defence $38 billion.

It’s about the same as the Federal Government’s entire funding of schools and universities $39.7 billion.

That doesn’t even include the EXTRA $424 million announced by Albo recently to “close the gap”. (Yes, an extra $1.2 million a day.)

Australians are generous and compassionate and we all agree that Indigenous people need to be respected and supported.

But despite the outlay of this enormous amount of money, there has been almost no discernible improvement in the lives of Indigenous
Australians living in remote areas.

The gap just isn’t closing.

In fact, if the NDIS or Medicare were delivering outcomes as bad as this for $100 million a day, there would be a Royal Commission.

$39.5 billion spent - every year!

The 2021 Census established that there are about 800,000 people who identify as Aboriginal (this represented a huge 25% increase on the 2016 Census figure).

That has largely been a result of the “tick the box” fake aborigines wanting to put their snouts in the trough - think Bruce Pascoe (Who's sister has come out and called him a liar).

If we assume that half are really Aboriginal and that every one of them is disadvantaged, $39.5 billion divided by 400,000 amounts to $98,750 per head being paid each year.

For a nil result !

We don’t need a Voice, which will involve even greater taxpayer expense, we need a royal commission into the Aboriginal industry.

 

[DrBourse]

 

[wayneL]

Just anuther one of them thar' no votin' racists....

 

[DB008]

I thought that everyone was meant to be equal under the constitution? Why have one group of people above/different to everyone else?

 

[IFocus]

View attachment 162828

Coalition Government Dutton should explain where the money went.

 

[TimeISmoney]

I saw a few stories claiming The Voice was just a Communist Front . I wondered at the time how this particular lie had been generated and came across the answer this morning. The answer is even uglier than I thought.

And all to stop an advisory body .

How Australian white supremacists used a 40-year-old documentary to divide voters on the Voice​

ABC Investigations
/
Exclusive by Kevin Nguyen and Michael Workman
Posted 1h ago1 hours ago, updated 1h ago1 hours ago
View attachment 162826
Former Trotskyite unionist turned right-wing activist Geoff McDonald was the public face of the anti-land rights movement during the 1980s.(ABC News)
Help keep family & friends informed by sharing this article

Link copied
It was created more than 40 years ago and inflamed the land rights debate in Australia. Red Over Black, a book and documentary released in the early 1980s, claimed the movement was a communist plot to erode Australia's sovereignty.

Now, the film is being used as a clarion call by anti-Voice to Parliament campaigners in the referendum to be held later this month.
ABC Investigations has tracked how the hour-long documentary was repurposed, revealing Australian white supremacists played a major role in its appropriation and dissemination.

The documentary has been circulated among groups promoting today's rallies against the Voice around the country.
Warning: This story contains references to racist and anti-Semitic language.

Leading far-right and conspiracy theory researcher Kaz Ross described it as a "deliberate infiltration strategy" of the anti-Voice campaign by sections of the far right.

White supremacists are using an obscure 40-year-old documentary to split the Voice vote

An obscure 1980s documentary about the Indigenous land rights movement has become a clarion call for those opposing the Voice to Parliament. An ABC Investigations analysis has traced how a debunked conspiracy theory about communists was weaponised to divide voters on the referendum.

www.abc.net.au

There are 3 clear connections to the comminist party from the Uluru statement co-writers, 2 of them just about poke your eyes out it's so obvious, using terminology like 'comrades' in speeches and letters is a dead giveaway, then one of the legal representatives said they need to go back to their 'communist roots'.

 

[TimeISmoney]

Coalition Government Dutton should explain where the money went.

If you ask or have a royal commision into it, it's automatically classed as racist.

 

[DrBourse]

Coalition Government Dutton should explain where the money went.

Money is handed over to the various groups as explained above...
Anyone who deals with those groups know exactly 'where the money went'..
No further comment from me.. Been there, seen it happen...

 

[basilio]

This is a few years older than the claim made above but the breakdown will be very similar.​

FactCheck Q&A: is $30 billion spent every year on 500,000 Indigenous people in Australia? ​

Monday 5 September 2016

By Dr Nicholas Biddle, Fellow, ANU Centre for Aboriginal Economic Policy Research (CAEPR) and Depity Director, ANU Centre for Social Research and Methods (CSRM). Reviewed by Prof. Dennis Foley (University of Newcastle) and Elise Klein (University of Melbourne).
This article first appeared in The Conversation on 5 September 2016.
The Conversation is fact-checking claims made on Q&A, broadcast Mondays on the ABC at 9.35pm. Thank you to everyone who sent us quotes for checking via Twitter using hashtags #FactCheck and #QandA, on Facebook or by email.

---

Excerpt from Q&A, August 29, 2016. Watch from 2:35.

We sat down with the Productivity Commission. We looked at the Indigenous space. $30 billion is spent in this space annually. $30 billion on 500,000 people and you still see the problems you get to see. What that tells me straightaway as a businessman, because I run my own business, is there’s a lot of fun and games going in there and we need to sort that out and we need to find out where the wastage of our funding is. – Chair of the Prime Minister’s Indigenous Advisory Council, Warren Mundine, speaking on Q&A, August 29, 2016.

Chair of the Prime Minister’s Indigenous Advisory Council, Warren Mundine, told Q&A that $30 billion is spent every year on 500,000 Indigenous people in Australia.
Is that right?

Checking the source​

When asked for sources to support his statement, Warren Mundine told The Conversation that:

The figure covers Commonwealth, state and territory expenditure and includes direct Indigenous funding and indirect funding (eg welfare payments). The figures come from a direct presentation by the Productivity Commission to the Prime Minister’s Indigenous Advisory Council meeting, which used their data from their reports.

Let’s check Mundine’s statement against original sources.

The Productivity Commission reports​

The Productivity Commission creates two major reports of relevance to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians. The first is the Overcoming Indigenous Disadvantage report, which focuses on socioeconomic and well-being outcomes.

The second report, titled the Indigenous Expenditure Report, attempts to identify the level of expenditure that relates to the Indigenous population. A key point in this 2014 report supports Mundine’s claim:

Total direct expenditure on services for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians in 2012-13 was estimated to be $30.3 billion, accounting for 6.1% of total direct general government expenditure.

The same report also found that:

Estimated expenditure per person in 2012-13 was $43,449 for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians, compared with $20,900 for other Australians (a ratio of 2.08 to 1 — an increase from a ratio of 1.93 to 1 in 2008-09).

But how much of that $30.3 billion is spent on Indigenous-specific programs?

First, $5.7 billion of that amount comes from general government expenditure that has nothing specifically to do with Indigenous Australians (defence, foreign affairs and industry assistance), but is seen to benefit everyone.

Second, around one in five Indigenous Australians live in remote areas, where the cost of providing many services is significantly higher. So, much of the spending is to achieve the same level of services that others are accustomed to (though arguably it fails to do so in many policy areas).

Third, Australia has a highly targeted social security system with support based on family and individual circumstances. The Productivity Commission estimates that 68.5% of the gap between Indigenous and non-Indigenous expenditure is “because of greater need, and because of the younger age profile of the population.”

Ultimately, the Productivity Commission estimates that only $5.6 billion or 18.6% of the total expenditure is provided through Indigenous-specific or targeted services, saying that:

Mainstream services accounted for $24.7 billion (81.4%) of direct Indigenous expenditure in 2012-13… with the remaining $5.6 billion (18.6%) provided through Indigenous-specific (targeted) services (a real decrease of $0.1 billion (1.2%) from 2008-09).

What’s the difference between Indigenous-specific and mainstream services? According to the Productivity Commission:

Mainstream expenditure includes outlays on programs, services and payments that are available to both Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander and non-Indigenous Australians on either a targeted or universal basis.

Indigenous-specific expenditure includes outlays on programs, services and payments that are explicitly targeted to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians. These programs, services and payments can be either complementary (additional) to, or be substitutes (alternatives) for, mainstream services.

How many Indigenous Australians are there?​

Was Warren Mundine correct to say that there are about 500,000 Indigenous Australians? Not quite – though to be fair, the estimates have varied in recent years.

The Productivity Commission’s 2014 Indigenous Expenditure Report, which contains the figure of $30.3 billion, estimated that in June 2013 there were 698,309 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders in Australia.

The 2011 Census counted about 550,000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians. However, many Indigenous Australians are missed from the Census, and the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) estimates that there were around 670,000 Indigenous Australians in the country on the night of the 2011 Census.

Taking into account their best estimate of births and deaths since then, the ABS has then projected the Indigenous population to be around 669,000 in June 2013 (the year the Productivity Commission data relates to) and around 750,000 in 2016.
ABS

Verdict​

Warren Mundine’s statement uses the most accurate and up-to-date estimate of government spending on Indigenous Australians – about $30.3 billion, according to the Productivity Commission.

However, only a small proportion of the overall Indigenous expenditure is on Indigenous-specific programs. The rest comprises the cost of providing mainstream services, such as schooling and health care, that all Australians enjoy.

His figure of 500,000 Indigenous Australians is a bit low, likely reflecting reasonably common uncertainty on this question (as well as him being on the spot on a fast-paced, live TV program).

The general point about needing “to find out where the wastage of our funding is” is important, and requires careful evaluation of the impact and cost-effectiveness of Indigenous-specific and other social programs. – Nicholas Biddle.

Review​

I have reviewed this FactCheck. Mundine was right on the figure of $30 billion; total direct expenditure on services for Indigenous Australians in 2012-13 was estimated to be $30.3 billion, as detailed on page one of the Productivity Commission’s 2014 report. Based on the 2011 Census, the Indigenous population was approximately 550,000 people, with most living in urban areas. Researcher Sara Hudson’s August 2016 report, published by the Centre for Independent Studies, outlines the continued waste and duplication of government funding as raised by Mundine. – Dennis Foley.

While it’s true Warren Mundine used the most up-to-date figures, his quote didn’t quite convey the full story. It didn’t get across the fact that only a really small chunk of the overall Indigenous spending is on Indigenous-specific programs. Most is on mainstream programs.

As the article notes, Productivity Commission estimates that only $5.6 billion or 18.6% of the $30 billion Mundine refers to is provided through Indigenous-specific or targeted services. The Productivity Commission does not examine how much of this $5.6 billion actually goes to Indigenous organisations within community or Indigenous peoples themselves – and how much is spent on government businesses.

Warren Mundine’s broader point that current spending is not yielding results needs further attention. The government’s Closing the Gap targets are nowhere near being met, and in some cases, widening, suggesting that these programs are, by and large, failing. Policy logic underpinning spending should be examined. – Elise Klein.

FactCheck Q&A: is $30 billion spent every year on 500,000 Indigenous people in Australia? | ANU College of ARTS & SOCIAL SCIENCES

By Dr Nicholas Biddle, Fellow, ANU Centre for Aboriginal Economic Policy Research (CAEPR) and Depity Director, ANU Centre for Social Research and Methods (CSRM). Reviewed by Prof. Dennis Foley (University of Newcastle) and Elise Klein (University of Melbourne).

cass.anu.edu.au

 

[sptrawler]

View attachment 162842

Enough said IMO.

 

[sptrawler]

Coalition Government Dutton should explain where the money went.

They were too busy trying to get the other brain farts, left over from Rudd and Gillards short stints in office, up and running.

But off course, just blame everyone else who have to wear the smell, then when the smell has settled let them back in the room after a stint outside to build up some more back pressure.

Gonski failure, that the new labor minister for education is trying to fix as it wasn't funding, it was poorly trained university teaching graduates. (who woulda thunk that).

Gonski billions must be used to target priorities

The Productivity Commission has found that huge Gonski funding is failing to reverse Australia’s educational decline. Labor needs to rethink how it is used.

www.afr.com

The Productivity Commission has shockingly concluded that the $320 billion in “Give a Gonski” funding to be thrown at schools over a decade from 2018 onwards has “done little so far to improve student outcomes”.
That’s because the National School Reform Agreement deal set up between Canberra and the states to lift school performance has not arrested a decline in student results, both absolutely and relative to Australia’s peers.

https://ministers.education.gov.au/clare/major-reform-improve-teacher-training-and-better-prepare-teachers-classroom

Education Ministers have agreed in principle to major reforms to how we train teachers, following the release of the report of the Teacher Education Expert Panel.
“A lot of teachers tell me they did not feel like they were prepared for the classroom when they finished university.

“That their university course didn’t prepare them well enough to teach things like literacy and numeracy and manage classroom behaviour, and that prac wasn’t up to scratch.

“This report is about fixing that.

The NBN, back of the napkin brain fart that should have always been the responsibility of the telcos to install.

NBN CEO casts doubt on ability to turn profit

Analysis: Your move, government.

www.itnews.com.au

and the NDIS funding, a great bureaucracy, that was always going to turn into a monster. Which it has.

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/ndis-review-ordered-amid-8-8b-blowout-20221018-p5bqlj

 

[basilio]

Enough said IMO.

And that is supposed to mean what SP ?

 

[Smurf1976]

The way I see it, I'm simply fed up with incompetence and the shifting of attention.

We've got a crisis with homelessness and people left destitute that I never thought we'd see in Australia: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09...k-down-on-homeless-sleeping-in-vans/102842798

We're underprepared for what fire experts acting on forecasts from the Bureau of Meteorology warn is likely to be a bad fire season.

Our education system is failing.

Then there's a myriad of other problems from inflation to infrastructure.

Meanwhile all I hear from the federal government, every damn day, is the Voice this, Voice that and Voice something else. Arguments for or against it aside, I've truly had enough of the single issue focus.

 

[orr]

And that is supposed to mean what SP ?

There's more than a few down this thread that have an alerigic reaction Facts.... And become apoplectic when there fallicies are given a probe.
thanks for your work here Bas. And others....

for further reading;
What''s known of the Australian Native Police is well worth the inquiry.... Anyone wanting to know more about this countries Colonial real history?

that is of course what is 'known' and hasn't, some how 'disappeared' from our records.

I can imagine Jacinta's 'War Cry' .... 'give us Colonialism or give us death' lucky for you 'darl'n' you got both.

 

[sptrawler]

And that is supposed to mean what SP ?

There's more than a few down this thread that have an alerigic reaction Facts.... And become apoplectic when there fallicies are given a probe.
thanks for your work here Bas. And others....

for further reading;
What''s known of the Australian Native Police is well worth the inquiry.... Anyone wanting to know more about this countries Colonial real history?

that is of course what is 'known' and hasn't, some how 'disappeared' from our records.

I can imagine Jacinta's 'War Cry' .... 'give us Colonialism or give us death' lucky for you 'darl'n' you got both.

It's wonderfull how now that 50% of students go to university, how easy it is to get a academic explanation for everything, when no one is doing academic degrees.
Meanwhile all the middle class go to work for, is to make enough money to buy a house and hopefully have a reasonable retirement.
Who is sorting that out to make their lives worth living?
WOW the forgotten wage slave, watching their dreams go down the toilet, while everyone else on the food chain is more important, from the Qantas chairmans lounge down.
The rich have their houses going up in price, the poor have all the smug elites pushing for social housing, meanwhile the middle class wage slave pays for it and their dream keeps moving further away.
So how do you fix it? Have the recession we have to have, no just import more wage slaves to prop up the ponzi, magic, you have to love it, until it affects you and sooner or later it will.