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The Voice

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IFocus said:
A construct on the yes no voters

Introduction We do not enter this arena out of lack of concern for continuing Indigenous community disadvantage. It may be that the voice referendum, if it succeeds, will help and if this is the case so much the better. Rather, our entry is motivated by concerns about the way in which the Government and other voice advocates have pressed their case.

However, we offer a different explanation, backed up by our, and others’, analysis of the opinion polls. This argues that most No voters (a majority of whom are non-graduates) have quite rational reasons for their stance, based on their nationalistic values.

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If your research worked why hasn't anything in the past worked for indigenous, that research no longer counts does it?

The problem with youth crime is the foundation of their life, if you can't give kids a good foundation you can forget about the rest. It's like the foundation of a house, if that part is compromised you have no chance of building a house that will last. It seems like the basic western values aren't something most are interested in, they continue down the path of drugs, booze, and crime, once you're stuck in that circle of life it is hard to get out no matter what colour you are. You need early intervention with kids, most often or not by the time they realise they've done badly it's too late. You can't turn people's lives around overnight, it takes time, and if the person themselves refuses to change there is literally nothing you can do. You don't want to remove kids from a toxic household or change their environment for the better they'll just stay in the cesspit of rot.
 
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Why Indeed!
Are the folks at the ABC so naive to think that someone would not notice that they put a cross superimposed on the gif despite the AEC saying that it will be an invalid vote?
Its lmost as if it was a deliberate ploy to invalidate some of the no votes.
Mick
 
It is now crystal clear that reconciliation is not the goal. It is about
power, division and an ipso facto apartheid.

Go as far as to say that if this is passed and the subsequent "treaty", it will mean the end of Australia as we know it an inevitable economic slide.

 
Smurf1976 said:
Question is, will the Voice lead to this being resolved?

Talk won't do it.

Money of itself won't do it either.

As an outsider, what I'm seeing is a situation that won't be changed with a bit of tinkering around the edges. It needs something far more drastic to give youth some serious motivation, get them through school and into work, and doing so knowing that ultimately this leads to radical change over the long term.

One concern I have about the Voice is the prospect that it in practice does the opposite, that it seeks to continue the status quo rather than bringing about radical change. Just a perception I have, but there seems to be a lot of clinging to a "traditional way of life" sort of thinking rather than embracing change. :2twocents
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If you go into any of the Northern Australian towns people ( that was from law enforcement through to Aboriginals themselves) will tell you things are getting worse that was also my own observations.

Change / improvement must come from within to do that you need to have input into policy and where the money goes.

Right now that's all an unknown the Productivity Commission recently shone a light into that window.

The Voice will be transparent, advice available and published unlike now.

If it turns out as you say it will be obvious and Government will be forced to act, the only thing that we have now is the Gap Report.
 
SirRumpole said:
cashless welfare card
Click to expand...

This is worth a read, poor data collection means its measured success or lack of is hard to gauge looks like a dogs breakfast.

Maybe if they had some input from Aboriginals it may have had a bigger impact....

Note this bit

'Trials in Kununurra and Wyndham began in April 2016.[47] Around 1,200 people are part of the trial in Kununurra and Wyndham.[50] WA Police have released statistics saying that violence and intimidating behaviour has increased in the area since the card's introduction."

"An independent review of the implementation and performance of the Cashless Welfare Card trial was performed by the Australian National Audit Office which resulted in a number of flaws in the trial being identified, and a series of recommendations made including that a cost-benefit analysis be conducted, and that the Department of Social Service should fully utilise all available data to measure performance, instead of the limited data set used in the evaluation commissioned by the department.[23] It was widely reported that there were fundamental flaws in the Cashless Welfare Card evaluation and justification for continued operation, but the Minister for Social Services, Dan Tehan indicated that the trials would continue, stating that "The cashless debit card is making a real difference in the communities where it operates".[24]

This response is in stark contrast with one of the four community leaders who supported the Cashless Welfare Card being trialled in his area withdrawing support due to feeling "used" to drum up support and the failure to provide adequate support services as was promised.[25] Commentary stating that the Cashless Welfare Card is a success also neglects to mention an actual increase in crime when year to year averages are considered.[25] There is also very little mention of negative outcomes such as an increase in suicides which has been directly linked to the implementation of the Cashless Welfare Card trial, which was raised in the 2017 inquiry.[26] A Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights report from 2017 has found that the CDC negatively impacts rights to social security, privacy, family, equality and non-discrimination, furthermore finding that there has been no compelling rationale for the scale of the CDC.[27]"
 
Responses to Key Evaluation Questions

What have been the effects of the CDCT (cashless debit card trial) on program participants, their families and the broader community?

Have there been reductions in the consumption of alcohol, illegal drug use, or gambling?

Wave 1 quantitative survey data and qualitative research findings indicated that the first 6 months of the CDCT was associated with a reduction in all three target behaviours among CDCT participants – alcohol consumption, illegal drug use and gambling. Wave 2 data from these sources (collected around 9 months after Wave 1) indicated that these reductions had been sustained and broadened, with a larger proportion of CDCT participants reporting reduced levels of each behaviour (compared to before being on the Trial). In addition, CDCT participant survey results indicated that the reductions in alcohol consumption and gambling were deepened among CDCT participants, with the average reported frequency of alcohol consumption and gambling declining significantly between Wave 1 and Wave 2. On average across the two Trial sites: 1 As at 26 May 2017, n=6 Trial participants were recorded as having been voluntary CDCT participants .

 

Watch for the favours to fly.​

​

Top ASX companies publicly back yes campaign in Voice referendum​

  1. Qantas
  2. BHP
  3. Rio Tinto
  4. Woodside Energy
  5. NAB
  6. ANZ
  7. Commonwealth Bank
  8. Westpac
  9. Woolworths
  10. Coles
  11. Wesfarmers
  12. Telstra
  13. Xero
  14. Transurban Group
  15. Lendlease
STAYING NEUTRAL (Top 20 companies)
1. Aristocrat Leisure
2. CSL
3. Fortescue Metals
4. Goodman Group
5. Macquarie Group
6. Santos
7. WiseTech Global

According to Murdoc!

 
Own shares in 5 - used to be 10 (Neutral 2 used to be 3)
Direct customer of 11 indirect 16,i guess (Neutral only 2 that I know of.)
 
UMike said:

Watch for the favours to fly.​

​

Top ASX companies publicly back yes campaign in Voice referendum​

  1. Qantas
  2. BHP
  3. Rio Tinto
  4. Woodside Energy
  5. NAB
  6. ANZ
  7. Commonwealth Bank
  8. Westpac
  9. Woolworths
  10. Coles
  11. Wesfarmers
  12. Telstra
  13. Xero
  14. Transurban Group
  15. Lendlease
STAYING NEUTRAL (Top 20 companies)
1. Aristocrat Leisure
2. CSL
3. Fortescue Metals
4. Goodman Group
5. Macquarie Group
6. Santos
7. WiseTech Global

According to Murdoc!

Click to expand...
Itt would be interesting to know how many of these companies make a positive contribution to improving the lot of aborigines, like specialised employment or training programs, or are they just paying lip service in order to virtue signal ?
 
SirRumpole said:
Itt would be interesting to know how many of these companies make a positive contribution to improving the lot of aborigines, like specialised employment or training programs, or are they just paying lip service in order to virtue signal ?
Click to expand...
Much more upside for business to agree, than disagree and face the media mob.
 
SirRumpole said:
Itt would be interesting to know how many of these companies make a positive contribution to improving the lot of aborigines, like specialised employment or training programs, or are they just paying lip service in order to virtue signal ?
Click to expand...

"Like sheep, the ALP government herded the large corporates to support its Yes vote in the looming referendum believing this was the path to certain victory, only to see the deep distrust of large corporates contributing to Australians responding by swinging to the No vote."​

Go back a decade or two, and Australia’s large corporations were among the most trusted organisations in the land. But in the last six years, community trust in large corporations has plummeted and Australians have never been more distrusting of large corporate Australia.

On Monday, I showed how Morgan research had documented the dramatic fall in the trust of the Qantas brand, but the survey material goes further. While Qantas is a national leader in distrust, the phenomena extends throughout large segments of the corporate community.

That means that plans of large companies to campaign against the new industrial relations legislation are going to need to be much more persuasive to distrusting ordinary Australians than the current dialogue.

And Australia is on the brink of a major mining investment boom as solid materials like copper, nickel, lithium, cobalt and rare earths replace oil and gas as the generator of the electric power to drive motor transportation.

Lots of other countries, on seeing what Australia is doing in mining industrial relations, are becoming very excited that we can be replaced.

But community distrust means no one is listening to the warnings from large corporates.

Like sheep, the ALP government herded the large corporates to support its Yes vote in the looming referendum believing this was the path to certain victory, only to see the deep distrust of large corporates contributing to Australians responding by swinging to the No vote.

In an atmosphere of distrust, probably incorrectly, Australians have linked the Qantas backing of the government’s Yes campaign (led by its chief Alan Joyce) to the government blocking of Qatar sending increased flights to Australia and reducing Qantas airfare prices.

Qantas is now admitting its brand has been damaged.

I suspect using Qantas’s damaged brand to spearhead the Yes campaign helped forward impetus for the No campaign.

13cfdbd6460d24f2942a3904ef15ceea.jpg
Departing Qantas CEO Alan Joyce, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and former footballer Adam Goodes at the recent launch of the Qantas 'Yes' Campaign in Sydney. Picture: Gaye Gerard/NCA Newswire

Much of the community tarnished, big corporate money is being directed to the advertising campaign that is being fronted by the still very ill John Farnham. And I hope the great Australian singer does not become pulled into the big corporate money pit.

Farnham is missing his former manager, the late Glenn Wheatley, who would never have allowed him to be convinced to tag his ‘You’re the Voice’ anthem to a complex and dangerous constitutional change – an issue where the majority of his fans appear to oppose what he is doing.

Meanwhile, Rio Tinto, which was discredited for blowing up the 46,000-year-old Juukan Gorge cave system for an iron ore mine in Western Australia, chipped in $2m for the Yes campaign and Prime Minister Albanese responded by wearing a Rio Tinto shirt on a visit. The winner was the No campaign.

As I pointed out on Monday, BHP also lobbed $2m into the massive large corporate money pool backing the Yes campaign even though its charter requires it to stay away from donating to political issues.

One of the reasons that big corporates are not trusted is that they have become like politicians and only present a side of the story that favours their point of view.

And so, in the voice debate, the big corporates trot out the fact that they favour a voice body to parliament. As they will know, but don’t say, the real issue is not so much the voice to parliament, which could be managed, but the voice to the public service which could see tens of thousands of representations each year covering almost all decisions. Because the representation is being made under a constitutional power, the High Court will require detailed consideration of each representation. This will clog up the entire government and may require reparations to change the rules.

The big corporations who have done their homework understand this issue, but do not discuss it.

This is another example of how the failure to tell the full truth is impacting the reputation of large businesses.

Just as PwC Australia were not up front with the full ATO story but allowed the facts to be dribbled out, so destroying the brand.

Rio Tinto directors did not explain the full details of what contributed to the cave destruction; the database breach scandals showed lack of care on data, and the full implications of what happened was often initially concealed. If companies have a Covid-19 story as to why they are holding back on returning Covid-19 grants that were made to keep employment during Covid-19, they are not telling the community and so contributing to corporate distrust.

Almost every a second week, a major corporate is pinged for not paying the correct amount to employees. Sometimes the corporation is deliberately saving money or mismanaging, but often it is a sheer complexity of the awards that cause the problems few companies speak up and so the actions multiply the distrust for large corporates.

In the industrial relations debate, it will be the small enterprises that will be able to relate to what is likely to happen to them as a result of the industrial relations legislation. If I they do it properly, they will have far more impact than the now distrusted large companies.

The tragedy for Australia is that this time what the distrusted large corporates say on the IR legislation is important to the nation.

Click to expand...
 
SirRumpole said:
Itt would be interesting to know how many of these companies make a positive contribution to improving the lot of aborigines, like specialised employment or training programs, or are they just paying lip service in order to virtue signal ?
Click to expand...
I think they make positive profits from them sadly, like the supermarket chains that sell them alcohol, it's sold directly out of the supermarkets in NT.
 
In 2019, the GG, peter Cosgrove, signed an executive order to establish the National Indegenous Australians gency.
The legislative instument can be read at the offical government website Here.
As can be seen from the screen shot, section (e) part ii
to provide advice to the Prime Minister and the Minister for Indigenous Australians on whole-of-government priorities for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people;
So why do we need a voice, when we already have this body, which already has 1300 plus employees, although only 300 identify as First nations people, and a budget of 3 billion.
1693997183823.png
says
 

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