The transition to Futures trading

[pavilion103]

I think it's about getting clear about my setups and which ones to take and not to take. That's why this playbook will give more certainty in terms if what I am going to take, how many contracts, when to add etc.

If I can get my trading setups and rules a bit more solidified it will lead to less emotional decision making in the moment (like last night).

I know what I need to do!

 

[CanOz]

I think it's about getting clear about my setups and which ones to take and not to take. That's why this playbook will give more certainty in terms if what I am going to take, how many contracts, when to add etc.

If I can get my trading setups and rules a bit more solidified it will lead to less emotional decision making in the moment (like last night).

I know what I need to do!

Have some context based plays as well Pav, the TH type of stuff...Market gaps up on news, trys to make a new high and they trap a bunch of traders then run the stops on the higher low etc...Or the longer type plays that take more time to develop, where you can see someone building a large postion where they could be right or have to bail out...

 

[>Apocalypto<]

PAV
Typical trigger pull phobia.
All setups are correct until proven incorrect
Just as they are incorrect until proven correct.

that is Gold Pav you have to try and live by this... it's so true... if I had a $ for everytime i second guessed a set up just to see it turn into the best trade of the week. don't think never think just sit and wait.

prime example see pic... i was long... held a few hours and kept having trouble at the short term high. so i got thinking to much and closed well you can see what happened next. off it went.

 

[kid hustlr]

I had read a few Linda Bradford Raschke articles in the past and didn't think they were anything special, but found this webinar really practical (better than the last video I posted, this one i have actually watched the whole way through before posting). It starts a bit slow and it's long, but you can skip the questions at the end which take up nearly half the video

Finally got around to watching this. Well worth the time.

---

Nice trading last night Pav, good way to finish the year in my opinion.

 

[pavilion103]

If I was to trade any market during the day, our time, what would people suggest?

Are there a few good options?
A standout?

Obviously something reasonably similar to what I'm doing if possible. If not, then the next best thing.

 

[tech/a]

If I was to trade any market during the day, our time, what would people suggest?

Are there a few good options?
A standout?

Obviously something reasonably similar to what I'm doing if possible. If not, then the next best thing.

HSI
Got the volatility like trading a fly.
Deeper pockets.

For something less exciting and
more like trading an elephant SPI

Easier to position trade the SPI in your case. $25/tick

I'm sure there are other suggestions.

 

[CanOz]

You could always start off with the MHI Pav, its the Hang Seng mini and its a good learner. You'll find the brokerage to be a bit steep relative to the big brother but its moves quite well as a proxy....see for your self. You should have access to them both through IB.

http://www1.interactivebrokers.ch/contract_info/v3.8/index.php?action=Details&site=GEN&conid=139359089

 

[RADO]

If I was to trade any market during the day, our time, what would people suggest?

Are there a few good options?
A standout?

Obviously something reasonably similar to what I'm doing if possible. If not, then the next best thing.

6A (fX AUD Futures contract) & SPI, but I wouldn't recommend trading them until the end of January or early Feb they always range for the first few weeks of the year. Trading this time of the year in general isn't really worth it markets are to thin. Just look at this chart.

 

[kid hustlr]

My vote goes towards HSI or 6A.

 

[CanOz]

6A (fX AUD Futures contract) & SPI, but I wouldn't recommend trading them until the end of January or early Feb they always range for the first few weeks of the year. Trading this time of the year in general isn't really worth it markets are to thin. Just look at this chart.
View attachment 56217

Nice volume profiles there Rado

 

[RADO]

Thanks CanOz I think knowing where the POC is, is pretty important. Multicharts also plots volume Delta as a standard feature as well.

 

[CanOz]

yeah, i like the POC and VWAP...amazing how that gets tested so often too...i also have the prior POC and the developing POC plotted on a 60 min chart
.

 

[pavilion103]

Thanks guys. Gives me a bit to look into. If I do decide to go to 4 days at work (plus on other days off), I wouldn't mind learning some of those markets to give me the option to trade during the day also.



I'm wondering what people think of this idea.
I'm not saying that I'd have the time or inclination to do this (especially if I was making a stack of money trading).....

But as I've begun developing my playbook in the format that I disclosed in this thread, I've begun to think what a valuable tool this is.

What do people think of a book idea along those lines of thinking.
Basically an brief overview on Risk management and the risk-to-reward of trading and then basically a book full of these practical examples.
It could be divided into sections such as: shorts, longs, trading at significant support/resistance etc. And it would be bascially almost all charts and trading examples with trade management also.

It could even be "a year in the market" and track trades chronologically as vary market conditions evolve. And how to trade them by analysing various time frame charts. When to take more contracts when good RR presents, when to cash in, when to sit back etc.....

I don't know if anything like this exists out there.
I sure wish I'd had something like it when starting out.
I'm thinking more futures trading where it is just the index rather than all stocks.

Why have I not come across anything like this?

 

[Caveroute]

Thanks guys. Gives me a bit to look into. If I do decide to go to 4 days at work (plus on other days off), I wouldn't mind learning some of those markets to give me the option to trade during the day also.



I'm wondering what people think of this idea.
I'm not saying that I'd have the time or inclination to do this (especially if I was making a stack of money trading).....

But as I've begun developing my playbook in the format that I disclosed in this thread, I've begun to think what a valuable tool this is.

What do people think of a book idea along those lines of thinking.
Basically an brief overview on Risk management and the risk-to-reward of trading and then basically a book full of these practical examples.
It could be divided into sections such as: shorts, longs, trading at significant support/resistance etc. And it would be bascially almost all charts and trading examples with trade management also.

It could even be "a year in the market" and track trades chronologically as vary market conditions evolve. And how to trade them by analysing various time frame charts. When to take more contracts when good RR presents, when to cash in, when to sit back etc.....

I don't know if anything like this exists out there.
I sure wish I'd had something like it when starting out.
I'm thinking more futures trading where it is just the index rather than all stocks.

Why have I not come across anything like this?

Hi,

What do you mean by "learn the markets ?"

My thinking is all future markets are created equal and trade entry / exit criteria remain the same [for me that's price action stuff].

What may vary is the chart type / trading window / initial stop position and any scalp / swing tactics you may run.

For example on the ES, a typical scenario might be:
2000 ticks, RTH, worst case stop at 8 ticks, scalp half at 4 ticks and move stop to b/e at 5, discretionary exit.

If your using 3/5 min charts that simplifies things even further - the chart has been chosen already. The problem with tick charts is you need to find a happy medium, so you get ~ the same number of bars as a 3/5 minute chart.

 

[CanOz]

But as I've begun developing my playbook in the format that I disclosed in this thread, I've begun to think what a valuable tool this is.

In my view, its critical that you trade your own playbook. Its yours and belongs to no one else...You own it and therefore you have the faith in it that you need to stick with it when the rough patch comes along.

More valuable, might be how you go about developing a playbook...

 

[pavilion103]

That's what I'm curious to know.

If it will be reasonably straightforward to go from trading the FTSE to the HSI for example because the markets are based on similar principles.

I know it was a difference going from stocks to futures but I'm curious about how much difference here is within different futures contracts.

 

[CanOz]

Personally according to my experience i find the most similarities are with markets of similar "thickness". A market that has single digits or double digits in the depth is totally different than a market with triple digits or more in the depth. Thin markets like the FTSE, DAX, CL, GC, HSI, etc., behave more similar than do thicker markets like the FESX, the ES, and treasuries bonds...

If you need volatility, then you'll tend to like the thinner markets....if you like time to make your decisions then you'll benefit from thicker markets...

There is more to a market than just a chart.

 

[Caveroute]

Personally according to my experience i find the most similarities are with markets of similar "thickness". A market that has single digits or double digits in the depth is totally different than a market with triple digits or more in the depth. Thin markets like the FTSE, DAX, CL, GC, HSI, etc., behave more similar than do thicker markets like the FESX, the ES, and treasuries bonds...

If you need volatility, then you'll tend to like the thinner markets....if you like time to make your decisions then you'll benefit from thicker markets...

There is more to a market than just a chart.

You might find this interesting.

http://www.brookspriceaction.com/viewtopic.php?t=1929

or same thing -

Brooks Price Action Forum Index » Trading » Trading Journals » BPA setups on the 2000 Tick ES chart

I think what your calling the playbook is the first post and the rest of the note [ many pages] is a detailed study of its use.

Excellent quality.

Of course - to these guys the chart is the market - that's all their interested in - you may agree or disagree.

You may have to register on the Al Brooks web site to view this - I dunno.

 

[CanOz]

Of course - to these guys the chart is the market - that's all their interested in - you may agree or disagree.

I don't mind Al Brooks at all actually and I've watched a couple of his webinars. However, the fact that all they are interested in is the chart leaves me a little uncertain of how credible they are as professional traders. I say this because i know that most professional intra-day traders, those that have large accounts full of OPM, don't use charts much....they use the depth of market with a chart for a reference.

It just makes me wonder why the guys that only use charts, or charts with indicators have to sell something in addition to trading themselves. In addition to this, very rarely have i seen records for these intra-day gurus. It just seems to me that the real successful intra-day traders are:

1.) trading OPM and don't have anything to sell
2.) don't use charts as the core of the plays...more for context and reference

I'm not saying these retail guru have nothing of value, but that i take it all with a grain of salt as the entire industry is meant to suck in the retail wanna be...thats all.

 

[Caveroute]

I don't mind Al Brooks at all actually and I've watched a couple of his webinars. However, the fact that all they are interested in is the chart leaves me a little uncertain of how credible they are as professional traders. I say this because i know that most professional intra-day traders, those that have large accounts full of OPM, don't use charts much....they use the depth of market with a chart for a reference.

It just makes me wonder why the guys that only use charts, or charts with indicators have to sell something in addition to trading themselves. In addition to this, very rarely have i seen records for these intra-day gurus. It just seems to me that the real successful intra-day traders are:

1.) trading OPM and don't have anything to sell
2.) don't use charts as the core of the plays...more for context and reference

I'm not saying these retail guru have nothing of value, but that i take it all with a grain of salt as the entire industry is meant to suck in the retail wanna be...thats all.

Yes I know what your saying. His forum has it's fair share of naysayers.

At the end of the day it's a judgement call - and you need a frame of reference to work with - otherwise your totally lost, and for me this is it.

I'm no expert but the logic is clear and repeatable - it seems to stand up on what I've seen to date.

It's been described as playing a video game - you just need to get good at it !

The first 25 years are the worst !